Saturday, February 14, 2015

Are UCG, LCG, RCG, COGWA, CCOG, et al., Really Just Gate Keepers of Imaginary Realms?

Here is a great comment from False Prophet Ronald Weinland: Don't Drink the Flavor Aid
concerning Ron Weinland and the various Churches of God leaders:

I recently watched a BBC documentary about how William Tyndale was the most “dangerous” man in Tudor England. In 16th century Europe, the catholic church kept the bible and the Mass in Latin so that way nobody could understand it. Meanwhile, pope and priests claimed to be the gatekeepers of heaven, and gave divine mandates to kings. Tyndale was dangerous because by translating the bible into English, he made it possible for the common man to realize he didn’t need popes and priests, or their pomp and circumstance, and gave them what they needed to challenge this false system. Luther had realized this too and was doing the same in Germany. Eventually, slowly, that system began to crater and collapse. If you think about it, in the greater world at large, we now live in a time after many thousands of years when FINALLY we’re not ruled by gods or priests. I’m still not sure we have much of a voice in how we are ruled, but that’s grist for a different mill.

Reading through these missives from Weinland, Dave Pack, Meredith, Flurry, UCG during the COGWA debacle, etc. you would think it was still the middle ages. You would have no idea we now live in an increasingly secular and atheistic time in which reason has begun to overturn religion itself. These people still claim to be priests and gatekeepers (to imaginary realms), and those who are ruled by these priests don’t seem to realize that the shackles under which they still labor were knocked off centuries ago! You would think this stuff wouldn’t work on literate people who can read the bible in their own language (let alone science journals that discredit it). I’ll never excuse these false priests, but at a certain point you have to conclude that there are some people who genuinely want to be enslaved by them and all this foolishness.


Anonymous said...

The question was asked: "Are UCG, LCG, RCG, COGWA, CCOG, et al., Really Just Gate Keepers of Imaginary Realms?"

Yes! And very imaginary at that: kind of like an imaginary Mickey Mouse Millennium (MMM)!

For one thing, each of those "Gate Keepers" believed for years and preaches that 10 kings are going to get together before the MMM is established on earth. Where are those 10 kings? Are they hiding someplace?

Yet, if they look more deeply into scripture they would find that the 10 kings won't exist until AFTER Satan is loosed from the pit. That is a 1,000 years beyond their imaginary realm being established on earth.

For another thing, in the real "last days," AFTER Satan is loosed from that bottomless pit there is proof that Jesus Christ was not on earth during the COG's imaginary MMM realm:

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the LAST DAYS scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of HIS COMING? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

The real Day of the LORD will not occur until AFTER Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit and that Day is mentioned in verse 10:

:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

So, in my opinion, yes, UCG, LCG, RCG, COGWA, CCOG, et al., ARE "Really Just Gate Keepers of Imaginary Realms!"


Black Ops Mikey said...

The Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia never has understood science, it's all magic.

And it's not particularly good magic at that.

Byker Bob said...

Intelligent comments such as this one are what keeps me on these boards, and engaged in the discussions.

Looking back over the past decades, yes. Emphatically yes. Basically, what Herbert Armstrong did very successfully was to make people believe that the imaginary was reality. While many heard the message and immediately tuned it out as being either ridiculous, or something they didn't even want to know about, either on our own, or through our parents, we were persuaded. HWA sounded very authoritative, and after all, he was on the radio!

We're already so far beyond the most remote "fudge factor" for the ACOG's "end of the age", and now, big chunks of the foundation he laid in "proving" that these even are the end times are falling out from under the loyalist groups, with time, and better knowledge. It's horrible to have to admit that something imaginary could scare one into decades long behavioral patterns, but that's what actually happened.


Anonymous said...

Thanks to Gary and BB for the positive feedback.

The fact that churchmen make themselves out to be the gatekeepers of imaginary realms such as Oz, Middle Earth, Mount Olympus, Valhalla, or a Christian heaven, though true, was an aside, at least for me.

What boggles my mind is how come it's still the fucking middle ages in the 21st century? People can read for chrisakes! Armstrongites are not illiterate plowboys. When Luther proclaimed "sola fide" he wasn't saying "faith without works," (as Armstrongites told me) he was saying faith without CHURCH! All the ritual, ceremony, soaring cathedrals, tithes, indulgences, pilgrimages, relics, and yes, "minister" priests and popes, were ALL redundant and superfluous. According to the bible (for what it's worth—not much I don't suppose) the plowboy is in need of "faith alone" — "sola fide" — and if only he could read the bible for himself, the church would collapse, or so Tyndale thought. It did in part, but in large part, it didn't. Thankfully they no longer hold any sway over civil governments. Instead, Christianity itself would eventually be gutted out, not because the bible said churches and priests were unnecessary (which it does), but because the bible says so many other provably false things, especially in the OT.

And yet, it IS still the middle ages in the 21st century for so many. The catholic church and it's priesthood still exists, with 1.2 billion followers who still think they need those pedophiles to make into the imaginary catholic realm. And there are still people in the ACOGs who, despite the abuses, despite the fact that the bible says Jesus is the only priest they need, despite the fact that Jesus is clearly a mythological figure built out of paganism and Jewish mysticism, despite the fact the bible says so many other false things, STILL think they need these human minister-priests, the worst current ACOG offenders imho being Ron Weinland & Dave Pack, in order to make it into an imaginary Armstronist realm. These people may be able to READ, but alas they cannot THINK!

Forget about Jesus, Tyndale died by fire so that we could be free of these meddlesome priests, but so many, Armstrongites included, make his death of no effect. Hundreds of years later, they still RUN to these priests and say, "Here, abuse me! Take my freedom, my reason, and my money." Why do these morons cling so desperately to the middle ages?


Anonymous said...

"You would think this stuff wouldn't work on literate people who can read the bible in their own language (let alone science journals that discredit it)"

Seriously? Science Journals are often EXTREMELY cryptic, and MANY scientists complain that even they can't read them. The person who wrote that clearly knows jack about science Journals.

Anonymous said...

I wondered why Dave Pack would be so bold as to try and fleece his tiny flock once again. But it occurred to me that the 'Clarion Call' fleecing was 8 years ago. Many of those people are probably gone because cult leaders who are nuts usually have a revolving door. He has a new herd and not only have they not been fleeced, they are not aware of things he said so dogmatically before their arrival. Now, Super-Dave is the Big Cheese God is using to single handedly cull all the faithful back to one organization with great power and amazing miracles promised to those who come. In light of his new-found zeal to go along with his new-found titles and doctrines, I thought it would be good to share some quotes from his book,"I Will Send Elijah to Restore All Things" -2004 ed. It turns out, Dave really is a prophet. These quotes come from the final chapter, titled, "Summary and Grave Warning". Enjoy.

"This final chapter represents the last attempt to warn of the grave danger you are in, if you reject Mr. Armstrong as the Elijah...A future 'Elijah counterfeit' will almost certainly soon deceive many unsuspecting brethren. Knowing that many false prophets would exist just before His return, Christ directly warns His servants of this in the last days...Do not miss this point. False prophets deceive the Church at the end!...Understand. A false prophet or false messiah is already a deceiver. He is not slowly becoming one. He is already a proven, cunning, dangerous deceiver! It is very much in his interest to convince you that following him eliminates all danger of deception...Many people assert that they are awaiting one man to come and 'unite the Churches.' I call this the 'Mighty Man Syndrome.' But this thinking has no basis whatsoever in either prophecy or Church history. While the concept is pure fiction, it has nevertheless become popular to a growing number of splinter members. Recall that the idea develops in this way: The Church is scattered. Doctrinal compromise is rampant. Competition between groups abounds, as does confusion. Leaders are 'fighting each other.' A great man of God-ELIJAH!-must 'rise up, unite the Churches and solve all of our problems.' ...A sobering caution: Be careful if you are looking or praying for miracles-or being told that you should. You are being set up to fall into a disastrous trap. If a strong man were to arise, few would follow him. And if miracles were necessary to induce-to move-these people to action, what a profound statement this is about people's weakness and lack of determination to take a stand based only on truth...Beware of any who, like Simon Magus, covet the power to use God's Spirit to do miracles. Particularly beware of those who do this, while denigrating Mr. Armstrong's role as Elijah, suggesting that their group will do a 'mightier Work than ever before.'...They will get their 'Mighty Man.' However, he will not bring the wonderful peace and unity they seek. I tell you, on scriptural authority, no 'strong man from God'-Elijah!-is coming to sweep all God's people back to unity. This will never happen!"

I know this probably will make very little difference to anyone in RCG but for those of us who still have people we love in that group, I hope it begins to turn the screw if they see it. Please share this for everyone to see. I will close with this quote from the same book on pp.52,

"If you are willing to wait long enough, the truth always comes out. In time, imposters and fabricators are always exposed for what they are." --the 'Mighty Man'

Anonymous said...

AB comment: It may be frustrating to read about religious activities as they appear from the negative perspective, but religion and the belief in with intelligent being as its source is as necessary to human life as breathing and eating. Without it our existence would no better than any other animal. It is religion that makes life worth living. All religion recognizes the value of life in some form, but Christianity looks beyond the physical existence. We may say we do not need the experiences of other human beings, but this is not true. We needed a father and mother to exist at all. Our father and mother did not need us. We may have been an accident, but we exist because they chose to take the responsibility of rearing us to a point of maturity. The rest of our life is a learning experience that reflects the choices we make.
To judge another persons choices is to assume that you understand their life and know what choices they should make in any given situation. I agree that those who choose to set themselves representative of some superior intelligent being have made a choice they cannot fulfill, but to call those who make different choices a moron implies we are superior. Some of the things presented here may help people make better choices, but who can say their life would be more or less rewarding.

old EXPCG hag said...


February 14, 2015 at 9:58 AM

Sorry, John, you have it all wrong!
This is just the truth of the matter.

Ed said...

There is a block in the minds of those that still hold on to armstrongism that prevents them from seeing it for what it is, "a scam" . Somehow their critical thinking processes must be reactivated in order for them to see what us on the outside looking in can see.

We can't convince them to leave. I believe that they can only be convinced by somehow changing their own thinking processes. Yes maybe an outside influence like this blog might spark questions in their minds. Or maybe comments from friends or family might be such a spark but I think it is mainly the internal critical thinking method being awakened that will eventualy lead more people to see armstrongism for what it is.

Byker Bob said...

Imagine how disappointing it is, every time that someone dies, for forty years, hearing that tired old cliche, "Ah, what a blessing from God! At least we know that so and so won't have to go through the tribulation! Better be careful. The rest of us may not be quite so fortunate."

With all that has happened, with all of the new fact-based materials that have come along, with all of the failed prophecy, it is difficult to imagine how so many people remain with the program. They are surely not staying in the fold from loyalty to the current crop of leaders. Most members see all of them as being people who are just filling in while HWA is away. Stalwarts are loyal to a philosophy, they are loyal to the point of idolatry to HWA, and they deliberately shut out verifiably true information that sheds doubt upon or outright disproves Armstrongism.

Not a heck of a lot you can do for them, but I guess that so long as they don't go Kool Aid, or Ratzmann, it is difficult to worry overly much about them. I'm content for the moment that at least my family is not with the Clarion-call type ministries.


James said...

Anon @ at 5:22 PM wrote:
'Science Journals are often EXTREMELY cryptic, and MANY scientists complain that even they can't read them. The person who wrote that clearly knows jack about science Journals.'

Just like the priests of armstrongism dont know shit about the bible. Is that what your saying?

Anonymous said...

First, the anger in the comments of this post seem rather extreme and unusual for this blog. Second, I think this topic hits something pretty accurately. Here we have these leaders who all act like the next in line to the Godhead. Of course with UCG it is the elected officials in that role, or the majority, or whatever flies at the time of who is in charge or not. Who knows what COGWA is, so little out there about them and their beliefs. Although, what one would find out with some discussion is that most believe that the current priesthood, AKA, ministry is a familial right. So, if ones son comes back to the church after living a life on the extreme, they are eligible immediately for the ministry, no matter what the scripture says about who is eligible. Look at one of the former leaders of UCG now with COGWA, whose son left the 'church' to return with a new wife and children and then gets ordained and gets hire full time in the ministry within a relatively short time. Maybe the term 'relatively' has a double meaning. So they apply a levitical idea of the priesthood, yet they own homes and have inheritance to pass along to their children, which is opposed to the law for the Levites. In fact, they and not the membership have more to pass along to family.

Additionally, in some of these groups they are demanding continually that people sacrifice for their church or are put on notice that the pastor knows how much they give. What hypocrisy.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Speaking of Self-Deception....

Anonymous said...

It's a bunch of silliness.

UCG and COGWA members are now split apart, mirroring what was the worst of armstrongism in the "glory days" of HWA.

Family members and former friends are now not speaking with each other.
What a shame on both the UCG and COGWA bigwigs that have caused such sad and hurtful things to happen.