Monday, February 29, 2016

Living Church of God: The Story Behind the Lawsuit...The Scarborough Letter

This is the letter that the Scarboroughs sent out in March of 2015 detailing what the Living Church of God, Rod Meredith, Bob League and others did to them.

Dear Brothers and Sisters In Christ

Patrick and I have recently run into several of the Charlotte LCG brethren in different places while running errands around town. We were shocked to learn that they consistently believed that we had left the church and didn’t want to come back. I’m not sure if these was assumption on their parts or, if that is what people are being lead to believe from leadership. Nonetheless, we wanted to clear things up so you would have our side of things to put an end to the speculation once and for all. 

We love and miss ALL of our LCG brothers and sisters more than you will ever know. We think of little else. We truly considered all of you to be our family. We love you so much. Patrick and I have mourned the loss of our church and our friends like a death. The last 6 months have been absolutely awful. I cannot count the times I’ve cried or verbalize to you the profound gut wrenching sadness we have experienced over this loss. Our hearts are truly broken. We NEVER WANTED TO LEAVE LCG. We never even knew we were in threat of being dis-fellowshipped.

There have been many rumors as to why we were marked and dis-fellowshipped. At first, they believed we gave Cogwriter information about Mr. Apartian’s negative views of LCG at the end of his life which were posted on his blog. LCG called Bob Thiel and he fully exonerated us of all charges.  Next they believed that we had tried to get Charles Ogwyn to leave Living and to start a new church with us.  Again, there was not a shred of truth in this. Patrick spoke with Mr. Ogwyn and he confirmed that he had absolutely NO RECOLLECTION of any such conversation. He told us that he was going to tell Mr. McNair that his information was inaccurate and he is an honest man so we can only assume that he did exactly that. Next we were accused of causing division in the Charlotte congregation. There is again, no truth in this. I told them that they could interview all 250 Charlotte brethren and not one of them would say that Patrick and I were divisive. We fully agree with church doctrine. These offenses would possibly have been worthy of dis-fellowshipping but we were not guilty of any of them. 

To this day, 6 months later, we have still never been given so much as one truthful reason that warranted receiving the worst, most strict punishment available to LCG leadership; being completely cut off, being robbed of all our friends, having our names and reputations dragged through the mud for THINGS WE NEVER EVEN DID WITHOUT SO MUCH AS EVEN ONE COUNSELING SESSION. 

Initially, we truly believed that LCG had been given mis-information and that as soon as they became knowledgeable of our innocence they would make everything right and we would once again be in the fold of LCG brethren. Sadly, this didn’t happen. They are now fully aware that we had no hand in these things. Many of our friends all over the US have been questioned by church administration about our character, attitudes and loyalty. All have attested that we were not in any way divisive or in opposition to church doctrine.  Again we hoped that coming into that knowledge would soften them and help us return to the fold. Again, it had no effect.

For reasons that we do not understand, Mr. Meredith and Mr. McNair have hardened their hearts toward us and it appears that no amount of truth revealed can change their minds. 

I have written literally DOZENS AND DOZENS OF LETTERS pouring out my heart, begging for forgiveness for whatever offense I committed, pleading for them to at least meet with us to talk. We have called over and over again beseeching them to counsel with us. We even called Mr. Meredith directly one day (he knows the extension from having once worked at headquarters) but he said “I can’t talk” and hung up on him.  How can you mark someone you’ve never even spoken to? One would think that marking would be a last resort after trying repeatedly to work things out! There are even men who have, in fact, left LCG to form their own groups taking with them LCG members; and THEY aren’t marked but we are.

We met with Mr. League and Mr. McNair one time the week we were dis-fellowshipped. It wasn’t a counseling session but more of an interrogation session. There were a lot of things going on at the time and they asked us of our involvement in them (we weren’t).  I fully admitted to having had a negative attitude over things that had happened to me in the past. I explained why we had been attending outlying congregations and why I didn’t like attending in the Masonic Temple but I also explained that I had IN NO WAY BEEN TRYING TO GET OTHERS TO STOP ATTENDING IN CHARLOTTE. There are others, including ministers, who share my discomfort of worshipping the Almighty from a Pagan Temple. Dr. Winnail told me specifically, in writing, that others shared my concerns. They didn’t get dis-fellowshipped. There is an altar filled with ash from offerings right behind the curtain where ministers are standing to preach to us every Sabbath. The hall is a temple. One only has to scratch the surface of research to discover the abominable things that happen there. There are so many scriptures that outline what God thinks about being worshipped from Pagan temples (Deut 12:2 , Exo 23:24, Exo 34:13, Psalm 78:58 , Deut 7:5, 2chron 31:1, 2kings 18: 4, 1corin 10:20 ). I never judged others for attending in that temple.  I never tried to cause division over this issue. I just quietly made the personal decision not to attend in Charlotte after studying my Bible on how God feels when His people worship from Pagan temples. I was told from an evangelist AND a high ranking minister at headquarters that there was NO RULE THAT I HAD TO ATTEND MY LOCAL CONGREGATION and that it was okay if we kept the Sabbath in outlying congregations if it made us feel more comfortable. 

That night, Mr. League and Mr. McNair never alluded to the fact that we were in any trouble; never hinted at dis-fellowshipment or even suspension. In fact, Mr. McNair said that 100% of the people he had talked to corroborated that we were in no way involved with any of the divisions or heresies that were going around at the time. As a side note, the people that were involved ARE STILL SITTING IN THE CONGREGATION. They were willing to write over $20,000 in checks to earn forgiveness and avoid being kicked-out while others guilty of the same beliefs and behaviors that had no money were dis-fellowshipped.  In order for “justice” to appear to be fair, the same crimes have to have the same punishments. Otherwise it looks like favoritism or vendetta.  Proverbs 11:1 says, “Dishonest scales are an abomination to the Lord, but just weight is His delight”.

As we left the meeting we were all hugging and talking about plans for the Feast which was just a few weeks away. We had no idea that we were going to receive a phone call from Mr. League and Mr. McNair the next morning saying that we were dis-fellowshipped per Mr. Meredith. We were caught completely off-guard and totally devastated. There was no mention of being marked. But then, two days later we were marked from the pulpit by Mr. McNair without ever being told. We found out from a shocked member of the congregation who immediately sent us a text message notifying us of the marking. We subsequently received a Fed Ex’d letter a few days later notifying us of the marking. By this time we had already begun to call and write feverishly begging for counselling; begging to work this out as Christians, as brothers and sisters. None of our letters were replied to. None of our phone calls returned. However, they hand wrote this at the bottom of our marking letter so at least we know they were aware of the fact that we wanted to counsel.

We didn’t let the letter discourage us. We continued to believe that this was all just a big mis-understanding and that eventually we would be called in to talk. I continued to write them on a nearly weekly basis; always begging for forgiveness; always pleading for mercy, love and grace; always expressing how much we love LCG and want to be a part of it; never getting a reply. Everything in us wanted to be back in our church; back with our brothers and sisters. We told them that we were “willing to do anything to clear our names”. They jumped to the conclusion that that meant we were going to sue them and so they started to spread that rumor throughout the church. To clarify, WE ARE NOT SUING THE CHURCH. 

As the 6 months drew closer, we were excited and hopeful to finally begin to work toward reconciliation. I wrote Mr. McNair again telling him how hopeful we were that we could work things out in time to keep the spring holy days with LCG. Again I poured out my heart in apology for my negative attitude and outlined many of the lessons this trial has shown me in my pre-Passover examination. My last letter got a reply, but not the one for which I had been praying for months. Rod McNair writes, “We are recommending another six months for you to examine yourselves, pray, fast, and ask God to grant you repentance”. ANOTHER 6 MONTHS?!? It was like being punched in the stomach.  How do you tell someone, we understand you want to counsel toward reconciliation but we’ve decided that we won’t even speak to you for AN ENTIRE YEAR??? Actions speak louder than words – their actions say “we don’t want you, stop begging to be back in the church”! The act of making us wait an entire year before even having a conversation with us is not love. It’s not shepherding. It doesn’t show mercy, kindness, forgiveness or any other attribute of Christian character. It’s hard and it’s mean spirited. God tells us in in John 13:34 that we are commanded to love one another and in that love He will know we are His disciples. Do LCGs actions toward us show this love John speaks of?

God says that He doesn’t even want to lose one! The job of a shepherd is to go after lost sheep, help them and counsel them so that they can remain with the flock. Not push them off the edge of a cliff, never looking back. Ezekiel 34:4 is about irresponsible shepherds and it says, “The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them”. I feel that this scripture perfectly describes what happened to us.

Even if the church truly believed that they had a genuine grievance with us they are incumbent in the spirit of Matthew 18 to at least TRY to work things out as brethren. Simply refusing to talk to us or return our emails is not a demonstration of following Christ. We should know the accusation and be given the opportunity to face our accusers, if for no other reason, than to be able to apologize to them. 
God says in Romans 12 that Christians are not to repay evil for evil. Verse 18 says “if it possible live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay” says the Lord. Therefore if your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good”.  If the Living Church of God really thought we were in trouble or slipping in anyway, the Bible instructs that they should have helped us. Matthew 5:43 admonishes us to do good to those against us. If LCG felt we were enemies worthy of marking, they should have showed us the love, mercy and “goodness” that Christ is speaking of AND THEN GONE THE EXTRA MILE. They should have showed us the fruits of the Spirit in kindness; NOT throw us out to the world to die. Again I tell you, WE NEVER WANTED TO BE OUT OF THE CHURCH. 

Forgiveness opens the door to reconciliation. An unforgiving spirit blocks the flow of God’s Spirit in our own lives. An unforgiving heart is paramount to the unpardonable sin. Mercy acknowledges that mistakes have been made BUT FORGIVES ANYWAY. True leadership is character in action. 1 John 4:20 says that if someone says ‘I love God’ but hates his brother, he is a liar. Mr. Meredith and Mr. McNair may say they love us, but their actions show otherwise. Friends who have dropped us like lepers may say they love us, but their actions say otherwise. 

Matt 5:23 says not to make an offering to God if you remember that your brother has something against you. First we are to make peace with our brother and then return to the alter to make the offering. This is God’s instruction, not our opinion. Not working to make peace is a direct violation to obedience to God.  Matt 22:9 says that the greatest commandment is love. The entire law and commandments are based on love. It’s legalistic to strictly keep the Sabbath and Holy days but to completely neglect the weightier matter of the law. THAT IS WHAT THE PHARISEES DID.
The God we worship cannot be pleased. The Christ I know prayed “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing”. In His love and mercy He found forgiveness for the very men that were calling for His death!  His disciples betrayed Him, denied Him AND YET HE FORGAVE THEM. He is our perfect example. Yet LCG can’t find forgiveness for Patrick and me AFTER 6 month of shameless groveling, begging, pleading, praying for the trite crime of having a negative attitude???

Mr. Meredith used to always say, “follow me as I follow Christ”. I tell you brothers and sisters, Biblical principles HAVE IN NO WAY BEEN FOLLOWED in this situation.  Matthew 18 was not adhered to. As I mentioned, we still don’t even know what the accusation worthy of marking/dis-fellowshipping is. We were never given the opportunity to face our accusers or the opportunity to try to work things out as brothers in Christ through counselling or conversation.

We have been shocked at the number of very close friends who have completely severed ties with us to follow Mr. Meredith’s instruction even though they know we are good people, totally converted and not guilty of any crime worthy of the punishment we have received. I ask you, is that Godly character? Is it better to follow a man or to follow the instructions that our Savior left us with in His short time on earth? Christ preached that love was more important than even faith and hope. Christ preached that love covers a multitude of sins. Christ preached that we are to forgive our brother 7 times in a day if he repents and asks forgiveness.  We have felt completely abandoned by so many that we believed were true friends. It’s been devastating.

I understand and respect government but if what they are telling you to do is un-Christian and un-Biblical should you blindly follow? They are trying to put government over God’s written instruction. God is grace, mercy and abounding love and fairness. What is more important, man’s government which is tainted with ego, pride and self-will, or the Word of God? If a fallible man tells you to shun us but you know that it’s wrong, will you do it anyway? If they tell you we are bad but you have never seen evil in us, will you believe what they say or what you know based on personal experience? Sometimes God puts us through trials not just to see our reactions but to see if others will do the right thing. Will you stand for what is right or condone questionable behavior in blind submission? If you know the truth but don’t act on it God says you are just as guilty as the one telling the lie. 

Many of you will say, “I want to be faithful to the church, that’s why I’m choosing to shun you”. Faithfulness means to God, not to an organization of men. To confuse that can cost you your salvation! They do not speak for Christ. There is but one mediator between God and men and it’s not LCG. It’s Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:5).

As individuals we ask you to remember what you know of our character, review what God says about forgiveness and then decide if you are going to believe that we are enemies of Israel, dangerous and to be avoided; or, if we are begotten children of God, your brother, your sister; worthy of your love and your friendships. We love you all so much and pray you will choose the latter. 

We have come to the sad realization that LCG does not want us based on their actions and refusal to speak to us for a minimum of one year. We have done everything we know to do to try to get back into the church. I can’t force them to meet with us or forgive us any more than I can change the orbit of the earth. We have prayed our hearts out. Many friends have also prayed their hearts out. For reasons we may never understand, it is now clear that we won’t be allowed back into LCG.

Many have advised us that we should not attend with other groups as it will prove our loyalty to LCG. We have 2 children at impressionable ages so we must attend church. We have attended with COGWA and UCG and had excellent sermons across the board. It is clear that they too are God’s people. There are good and bad in every group but the good by far outweighs the bad. We can’t tell our kids that we have to obey God by keeping the Sabbath and the holy days and then stay home alone. We want them to love God and keep His ways so we need to set the example. Again, expecting us to stay home from church for AN ENTIRE YEAR would be suggesting that we put the word of man above the word of God. That is something that we are not willing to do. Besides, we will all be judged as individuals, not a group or corporate organization.

We love and miss all of you so very much. We realize that you cannot openly be our friends out of fear of retaliation from the authority. Ruling by fear instead of leading by example is a scary precedence.  People have literally told us that they want to see us and that they love us but that THEY ARE SCARED THAT THEY WILL GET IN TROUBLE if Mr. McNair or Mr. Meredith find out.  I don’t think they realize how crazy that statement sounds. We are each responsible for our decisions and our friendships. They do not have the authority to scare you into staying away from converted brothers and sisters for unfounded reasons. There are multiple members of the council of elders who know our character and know that we are not guilty of any offense worthy of dis-fellowshipping but they too are scared to openly defend us.  It leaves us wishing that people had more courage but that is beyond our control. Will no one stand up when they see blatant injustice?

Hearing those types of words definitely throws up red flags. Telling members that they can’t fellowship with us even after they know we are not guilty of causing division is very much like the obedience demanded by people like Gerald Flurry. Members being “scared” of the ministry is cause for question. Anytime friendship is contingent on membership in the same group, it’s cause for alarm. Shepherds are to teach you right from wrong ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD and then trust that you are mature intelligent adults capable of discerning good from bad, right from wrong. You should all be free to make your own decisions. It is a shepherd’s responsibility to seek out the truth; to be slow to act; to avoid false accusations of the brethren. Only pride, arrogance, inability to admit they have made a mistake and plain out-right meanness is to blame for the refusal to show Philadelphian love; the refusal to be peacemakers.

Over the years we have been completely dedicated to the Living Church of God. I used to spend hours baking so that I could fill each hotel room with snacks and bottled waters when there was a ministerial conference. Patrick worked at headquarters at his own expense for nearly 5 years. He provided computers, paid for all his own business expenses for trips to set up Feast sites and to attend  the Religious Conference Meeting Association conference each year to network for better deals for the church and its brethren. We used our personal vehicles as a church taxi service for years at all hours of the day or night, rain, sleet, ice or snow anytime anyone was in need. I would make snack packs for ministers to enjoy as they arrived to their 2nd or 3rd Feast site completely worn out from travel and work. I hosted cocktail parties and dinner parties, not for myself, but so that visiting members would have a place to fellowship instead of being stuck in a hotel room with nothing to do as was often the case. We opened our home like a bed & breakfast FOR YEARS to visiting ministry. We single-handedly paid for the Tomorrow’s World television program to air on Kansas City channel 29 for a long time. We helped brethren be able to attend the Feast of Tabernacles when they otherwise would not have been able to afford to attend. Patrick paid to hire a software programmer to develop what you know as the Festival Registration Program when the church was stuck in the dark ages using paper registration forms that had to be manually entered to figure out how to plan on the correct numbers of brethren at each Feast site. Patrick has always been there when ANYONE needed him. He took care of widows, installed fireplaces, laid carpet, graded backyards with a Bobcat, cleaned houses, poured yards and yards of concrete to build patios, towed cars, fixed cars, picked up brethren the side of the highway after they totaled cars, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. We have always tried to be there for our brothers and sisters in need. We did these things NOT because we are enemies of the church trying to cause division but rather because we loved the church, believed they were doing the Work and loved our brothers and sisters

Some will say that this very letter is divisive. That is not the message we hope you take away. We feel we have a right to say our side of events without being accused of causing division. After all, they proclaimed their side when they stood in front of 250+ members and read our names as enemies of the church. Justice is blind. One should have both sides prior to making a determination. Shining the light on how wrongly this situation has been handled will likely upset them.  They don’t want you to know how hard we have fought to be back in the church because it makes them look bad. We have not attempted in any way to cause division. Separating best friends, brothers and sisters... that’s divisive. Not following Matthew 18 and not showing mercy and love to fellow begotten children of God… that’s divisive. If anything, THEY are causing division by acting unfairly and unequally with the brethren.

We didn’t leave LCG and we never committed any crime worthy of being dis-fellowshipped or marked. We pray you will remember who we are, truly are, instead of believing the false narrative that is being portrayed. We treasure our friends and understand the fear that many have expressed regarding openly being our friends. We would love nothing more than to continue positive brotherly private relationships with our LCG family members; summer BBQ’s, boat rides and family fun. We love you all!

Patrick & Elizabeth Scarborough


Anonymous said...

As a former (13-yrs) member of the Worldwide Church of Armstrong (not God), I grieve for those still deceived by Armstrong’s twisting of scripture to fit his “fears and tears” doctrines.

Classic case of all of this in this instance. The writers have elegantly and exhaustively shown the applicable scriptures of love, concern, repentance, and ministerial sheparding that are so obviously in violation with these spiritually injured people. Armstrong and his subsequent imitators so strongly construct and operate their churches “from the top down.” Laity learn from about the second day after baptism that the only real way to avoid the horrors and death of the Great Tribulation is to sacrifice everything (especially money) and just hope (well ‘in faith”) that, somehow, the new member’s pile of constitutional sins might, just might, be someday covered by the grace of Christ.

That grace, that very reason Christ came to earth (which was NOT to select a few people to be “trained” for millennial positions of divine power) is utter absent in anything in this account. Nothing could be more Pharisaical and less Christly.

I now belong to, participate in, and take joy and assurance in a mainline Protestant church — which really does preach from the scriptures and focuses upon Christ and his teachings. The warmth, strength, and joy I share with my fellow congregants surpasses anything I ever encountered in the Worldwide Church of Armstrong. I no longer turn over in bed at night, wondering if I got any closer to qualifying for some secret, night-time flight to a desert rock wall in Jordan, where, per chance, I might somehow be chosen to live in some rock caves for 42 months. Instead, I have confidence that Christ loves me, guides me, and will protect me; as he sees fit. A can’t and don’t have to “earn” anything. I must only believe and follow; not the harsh teachings of some Armstrong minister, rather, I strive to follow the Beatitudes, which pretty much sum up the entire Law.

For everyone still mired and deceived by Armstrongism, I hope and pray for the earliest demise of each of descendant and un-Godly Churches of Armstrong. The truths (or deceptions) of those churches are revealed, here, in this unfortunate (but typical) case. You will know them by their fruits, as in this case.

My prayers to those who have endured such frightful oppressions — from their own churches and pastors.

Byker Bob said...

Well, it is a heart-rending letter, and I don't know if anything has changed over the past 40 years, but back in the day some blubbering bull moose would have blasted the letter as being "self-justification" and subjected the writer(s) to further reprimand. Oh, wait! That's what actually happened!


Anonymous said...

It seems like the Scarborough's have been open and honest. A stark contrast to LCG's secret cover up or their lies to cover lies.

Unknown said...

Is there any truth to the rumor that the main reason for the disfellowshipment was the families acknowledgment of the NEW MOON each month, and having a special dinner on that occasion?

Mark said...

Masonic temples have burnt offerings?
Just nuts.
As for the letter, when you are cult minded you join a cult.
When you join a cult bad things happen to you.
Live and learn people.

Anonymous said...

I left an organization for a lot less than they've been through. I don't regret it one bit. It was definitely the right decision.
Why do they still want to go back to LCG?????

Anonymous said...

If there were just one all-powerful god...
And if this god really had an afterlife planned just for his "true" church...
And if LCG were this church...

...then I'd rather be with Satan, and hell would be more tolerable!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Scared by LCG said...

If the members and ministers of LCG truly cared for RCM and had any ability to offer practical, productive help, they would be urging him to REPENT!

The Scarborough's have obviously tried multiple ways and times to reconcile. RCM's pride and anger is all that stands between them.

RCM could have easily prevented multiple millions in loss if he could only be forgiving. The settlement cost, legal fees, plus the exodus of tithe slaves will cost him dearly but, he will not change.

RCM will be forgiven as he has forgiven others.

Anonymous said...

God's Church is not a corporation. It's the Body of Christ. Those called out and have God's Spirit. Following a man is Idol Worship. As soon as join Worldwide I discovered that you can trust humans or judge God's Truth by what humans do. You will always be disappointed. If the Scarborough family had a good experience with UCG or COGWA, just start over making friends their a stop begging these Pharisees for forgiveness.

I have proven that most of the doctrines I learned in WW are correct. I'm not referring to Petra, makeup and setting dates. But as 1 Cor. says that you can understand all the doctrines, but without love you've missed the point of Jesus's teachings.

Anonymous said...

This speaks to the issue of the Scarborough's naivete.

I've seen it happen over and over again when a member tries with sincerity to address issues with how a cult (or 'high-demand group') has treated them or others.

The sad fact is that the LCG's response was to be expected, given it's a high-demand group.

My hope is that the Scarboroughs win in court, and also that they are able to depart from most of what RCM/LCG taught them, and move on to more sane greener pastures.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ March 1, 2016 at 6:56 AM wrote,
"I have proven that most of the doctrines I learned in WW are correct."

Excellent. Glad you did so, because many here need to be schooled.
Please provide a list of those doctrines if you would.
(And also, reasons why HWA wasn't a false prophet would be helpful for some here, too.)

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I would not defend HWA or GTA for their behavior. I don't believe in the Armstrongs. They, like all of us are flawed humans. But I was raised Catholic and never opened a Bible in Catholic grade school. And not having been brain washed by the Protestant's view I do appreciate the following truths.

God is not a Trinity.
We don't have an immortal soul.
Most people will not burn forever in Hell. They cease to exist.
We don't go to heaven.
The Sabbath was not replaced with Sunday.
The Holy Days replace Christmas and Easter.
The Law was not done away with Grace.
Evolution is massive Group Think. Show me one scientific fact to prove it.
All mankind has HOPE to be in God's Family.
Dietary laws were given for health reasons.
Mary and "saints" are not be worshipped.
You don't need to confess to any man, but to God.

If you want more, just ask but I'm busy at work.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

No offense to the Scarboroughs, but it's amazing how this story has repeated itself over and over, going back 40 years or more.

The pattern is the same. People are afraid to leave the "one true church." Except they felt they were treated badly (and probably were), and then they were disfellowshipped, and then they felt forced to write a long letter to explain their feelings and the facts about what happened and their anguish and how they are not, and would not, leave "the body of Christ," and....

It happened with ministers, employees, members, you name it. Every time, the authors acted as if their situation was unique. ("I feel the need to explain...," "I never would have left of my own accord...," "I hope and pray for reconciliation...," etc.) But it wasn't. This exact scenario has occurred countless times -- enough to suggest proof that the entire COG movement was flawed from its inception, and that the heavy-handedness displayed by its leadership since the days of Herbert Armstrong has been no coincidence.

"By their fruits." What, exactly, about that phrase remains unclear to people?

Anonymous said...

To Connie

This situation didn't have anything to do with keeping new moons.

The Scarborough family used to keep new moon when they lived in Kansas City. It was just a potluck dinner with family and other brethren. The Patriarch would gather the kids around him and ask the what month is was on the Hebrew calendar, what the next Holy Day was, what that Holy Day meant and how far it was to the Feast. It was nice.

When Patrick moved to Charlotte to work for LCG HQ's they invited a bunch of people to their home for a new moon potluck. Many of us had arrived and had our crockpots plugged in and were beginning to fellowship when al of a sudden Patrick calls from HQs to say that he had just spent the last hour having Richard Ames yell at him with spit flying and blood veins popping out of his neck. Ames is strictly against the keeping of the new moons and said to do so was causing church division.

Much to my surprise, we all had to pack our crock pots back into our cars and go home under order of Richard Ames.

To my knowledge, the Charlotte Scarborough's never attempted to keep another new moon after that one.

Anonymous said...

James Malm is claiming that the Scarboroughs were put out of LCG because they were upset over the Charlotte LCG meeting in a Masonic Lodge. Nothing was mentioned by Malm about new moons. If this had been the case with the Scarboroughs, Malm would have been in a raging fit right now, since he is a new moons idolator. Malm's wild exaggerations are just as ridiculous as Bitter Bob's

Anonymous said...

Since when has James Malm had any credibility.? He's a tired angry old man.

Sweetblood777 said...

I fully agree with anon 8:42.

The basic doctrines are the truth. One can research all of them and come to the same conclusion.

What was wrong with the WCG was HWA and his cohorts. Everyone of them using the flock as their personal piggy bank. All hireling, except for one or two.

Anonymous said...

My heart goes out to the Scarboroughs. To address one point in their letter, I was a WCG member attending in Seattle back in the '80s in the local Scottish Rite Temple. I, too, felt uncomfortable meeting for services & having socials there, but of course there was never any money appropriated for an actual church hall, and the Temple was a high-quality facility. I only wish the Scarboroughs the ability & willingness to one day soon acknowledge to themselves that the church whose loss they now mourn was and is not a "true church of God". They'll have to go through the grief stages as we all do, but following this grieving process will come a sense of liberation from the bondage of mind control.

Anonymous said...

Exactly what I told myself a few yrs ago, long after leaving WCG & UCG---if these groups and their leaders and doctrines are of God, then that being is not one I could love or respect or want to be with for eternity.

Byker Bob said...

Back in the '60s, playhouses and ballrooms were rented to be used as church facilities. It was a kind of neutral secular environment. The ministry at that point was telling us that members should not go into what they called "pagan" churches, and should especially never go near the altar. This included attending weddings and funerals in such places. I don't know just when this renting of Masonic halls first began, but at one time, avoidance of "pagan" meeting places was just as big a deal as not eating ceremonially "unclean" meats. Somebody must have at some point finally separated the gilded pages in the section of the New Testament containing Paul's writing, and learned that idols are nothing.


Anonymous said...

No matter now much morons like Malm and NCK claim the Masonic connection, its all a load of bullshit. Why these men deliberately lie about HWA 's masonic membership is beyond reason. Lying has never been an issue in the Church when it comes to false prophets tell stories. Pack, Thiel, Flurry, Malm, Meredith, Kubik, and the rest of the sick leadership of the church, all do it.

James said...

Anon 10:44 wrote: '"By their fruits." What, exactly, about that phrase remains unclear to people?'

The answer is they don't believe God. The church is a social club. They should leave and start their own little club.

My advice is to keep it small. Expel anyone who thinks they should be leader. And when the group gets over 25 families, split it in half. Doing so prevents strife and ensures the cohesion of the group(s).

It works for the Amish.

Anonymous said...

10:53 that story about Mr. Ames and the new moons in crazy! What a whack-job! And they all went along with it??? I can't imagine loading my food back up and leaving because Dick Ames told me I couldn't eat with friends on that night. Any other night would have been okay, but not THAT night. lol

Anonymous said...

A logical response would have been for the people to -

1) use their tithe money to rent a bus
2) have a new-moon pot luck on it, and
3) drive up in front of Dick Ames' house and park there
4) everyone pull down their pants and press their rear ends up against the bus windows facing the Ames house
5) (This is the "new" mooning that's appropriate for cult leaders.)

Byker Bob said...

The problem with the new moons is that they call to attention the original way of determining when the weekly sabbath falls. The priests "calculated" it by counting in 7s from the new moon, just as counting 50 yields Pentecost. And that was the only reason for celebrating a new moon. One knew when the sabbath was to fall.


Anonymous said...

You good people ( Scarboroughs ) are not doing wrong, if things are as you say. The church founded by Mr. Armstrong has the correct doctrine. These splinter leaders, as some leaders in wcg, are doing wrong. Where humans are leaders, wrong can and usually will be done.
I believe Rod Meredith and his partners there are acting in a fleshly way, trying to save face.

Jerommeke said...

I guess some people just like being treated like little children and get bossed around. Imagine a minister telling grown-ups to stop having dinner and to go home.
I suppose it boils down to the fact that some people are fearful of having to think for themselves and would rather have someone else do it for them.

Grow up!

A believer said...

God said there would be few if any obeying his doctrine when he returns. So while your running your mouth, you should be asking God for guidness

A believer said...

God said there would be few if any obeying His Commandments when the end comes. I would really think about that. You have studied the Bible you should have anyway, you should of proved to yourself what the scripture said was true. If you did then you know what is the truth. Men make mistakes.
We are to worship no one but God.
But God does say if your eyes have been open to the truth and you turn away from it, there will be a price.
I can only answer for myself, I do believe Saturday is our Sabbath, I do believe we are to keep the Ten Commandments, keep God's Holy Days not mans. Pay tithes Love your man kind not just certain people. But which is the spin off that is keeping all of this I do not have a clue. So what do you do?
The best you can with the knowledge you have. Ask God to guide John 3:21 but he that forth truth cometh into light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Anonymous said...

I remember the awful Milwaukee shootings. Mr. Meredith said it was Satan persecuting the church. I sent a 16 page letter, to headquarters, showing, that Terry Ratzmann, was a very troubled, lonely, emotionally sick single man, who was extremely frustrated by never have a chance to marry. It is hard for some single men, to always be the "old bachelor" in the church, surrounded by many couples and families every sabbath, and holyday, but never having a girlfriend or wife, and not being allowed to date outside of a tiny church, where single women near his age are almost non existent worldwide! I know his pain very well, as i am an old bachelor, who never had any chance for marriage in the churches of God. He obviously was very depressed, and a sad man. I have felt very left out, too, as a single man. But, it would have been better for Terry to just leave the church, get some professional help, in therapy, maybe some meds, and a support group. Someone said something to him, before services that day, that really hurt him, and he simply snapped, could not stand anymore, and no doubt, a demon took over his mind for a while, and he went home, and got his gun, and in a frustrated rage, gunned down a bunch of church people, then, someone shouted "Terry", and he then shot himself dead. Terrible, horrendous! There was no excuse for Terry doing this. But, he was a boiler about to explode for some long time, with depression,anger over being a loner, frustrated by being the only one in his family in the church, no chance to find a wife, in a couples and family church! I suspected some single frustrated man,might end up doing something like this, for a long time. It did not surprise me too much, to tell the truth!! Being a loner,with emotional, mental illness, and being kept from having a girlfriend, and not allowed to date outside of a tiny church, while it seems everyone else has mate and kids, and grandkids, can depress the healthiest of single men. i was NOT Satan persecuting the church!! It was one mentally, emotionally depressed, and frustrated loner man, that simply SNAPPED. I hoped that the church would realize there are really hurting lonely men, and some have emotional weakness, and can snap! The church never answered my letter. i know it is government from the top down, but God and Messiah are the top, and men in charge do not always understand. I am sorry there is so much fighting over relatively minor things, in the churches. God is greater than all. I wish the church would realize there are hurting loners, that feel left out often, and could snap. i hope not, though. It is better to just stop attending, if the frustration is too great. and you feel like you are unstable. There just is not nearly enough love to go around in this world, or church. Some loners fall through the cracks,and some couples.

Anonymous said...

I have no inside knowledge of the incident; I'm only speculating that Ratzmann was already taking a prozac-type drug. His behavior was identical to many other prozac-related incidents. See SSRI Stories. In 1999, LCG published an article about the school shootings, blaming Satan. I suggested to editorial that they more specifically blame the prozac-type drugs and strongly warn the membership about them. If they had, maybe the Milwaukee victims would be alive today . . .

Anonymous said...

I was on Prozac for several years, and would never consider hurting anyone, in spite of my mental illness and depression. i have also been on other brain meds, but would not consider violence. He was very depressed, and had unresolved deep anger , and frustration issues, and snapped. Every brain is a bit different, and meds may cause a person to be more dangerous, true.

Unknown said...

Why? I guess they didn't agree with the comment? Not enough reason to remove it, if it doesn't represent my view,..... hypocritical quite frankly

Anonymous said...

Why? I guess they didn't agree with the comment? Not enough reason to remove it, if it doesn't represent my view,..... hypocritical quite frankly