Friday, June 15, 2012

Ron Weinland: More Juror Comments

One of the jurors has added more to the story of what it was like listening to Ron Weinland's trial.  This is only a partial quote, go here to read the entire posting on Mikes most excellent blog! Keep up the heat!

 Juror Comment

There are really not any applicable words to describe this extremely dirty mess. It stinks really badly!

I can not imagine the frustration and hurt of many that this low life has instilled. People giving life savings…..etc; For what? To fund this diabolical scums jet setting life style and shopping sprees. I saw receipts from restaurants that ranged between $150 to $400 a pop. Many, many, many. On a daily and weekly basis. The IRS didn’t count hardly any of these either because they could have been church and travel related. Yea, right!
 If the agent had more than three weeks before the trial began to review all of his expenses it would be staggering I am sure.Another dirty tactic the defense used was with holding their evidence until 3 weeks before the trial started so the prosecution didn’t have time to look at anything. They did not need it. The prosecution just concentrated on the simple an blatant things.
 This jackass is the king all right. The king of the Weinland Disgusting Dynasty. This man redefines many things. Better yet, he is not even a real man. Real men do not act in such a manner and prey on others. He is a spineless coward hiding behind insanity. That would have been a much better defense but would not have worked either. He is cold, calculating, and too articulate to pass as a nut case. He is in my opinion a classic example of a sociopath. Google that term. I will ensure you that he fits most, if not all, of the traits and characteristics.
 I do not feel any compassion for Jeremy nor Audra neither. They are not kids, but adults, with full knowledge what is going down with the money train. In fact, they are using it for a paycheck along with mom & dad. I suggest they go get a real job. What are they going to put on their resume? Thief in training, conspirator, money launderer, go with the flow & benefit guy or gal, or I can play dumb as an actor/actress. They are not oblivious to what is going on. They receive plenty of “hush money” though. I am confident that they are enjoying the fruits just as well.

I really do feel for those of you who have been tangled up in this mess. In simple terms, it is unjust and very wrong. I am glad to see that some have figured it out. This low life will never quit though. You need to understand that. As soon as he gets out of the pokey he will be right back at it. This tool is an addict. Instead of drugs it is green backs! Greed is his driving force and in my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with God nor being religious. That is just the cover he chooses to use.

Further down was this:

Juror#215 says:
Jack365, maybe the members would like to know the “accounting process” by which Mr and Mrs Weinland handled expenses.

All of the church expenses, from book related costs, to the airfare, lodging and meals during the constant travels, all of these were placed on one of the Weinland’s many personal credit cards, each with a $50,000 credit limit. The reason they used only personal credit cards was that a “church” couldn’t get the kind of credit they needed on a monthly basis to keep up their lifestyle. These cards were not just used for legitimate church expenses, but also for their everyday personal expenses, lavish shopping trips, jewelry, art purchases, expensive meals out on the town around northern Kentucky, and all of Mr Weinland’s frequent trips to Las Vegas. Did you know that he spent a lot of time in Vegas? From what I heard, PKG doesn’t have a congregation there.

Anyway, everything that the Weinlands needed to spend money on for any reason was charged to those cards. When the bills came in, the full amount of the bill was transferred from PKG accounts into the Weinland’s personal accounts to pay each of the cards off each month. At times, Audra would have to monitor the balances mid-month if any of the cards were getting close to their $50K limits, and would make several $40,000 transfers from the PKG accounts to the Weinland’s personal accounts to keep them paid down as they continued to spend, spend, spend.

When the credit card statements came in, it was Mrs Weinland’s job to check the charges, and decide if any were strictly personal expenses. If there were, she was supposed to write a check from the personal account back into the PKG account. The defense offered no evidence that this reimbursement to PKG was ever actually done.

Now, I’m no accountant, but I do work for a living for a company that has an accounting department that has a process to track and reimburse the expenses of its employees, and I don’t think that this system would meet any kind of auditing guidelines for legal financial activity.
This process is called “co-mingling” and it makes keeping accurate financial records very difficult. It is one of the tactics that criminals use to steal large sums of money, not the way that honest people do honest business.

There’s a big chunk of the iceberg for you.


Douglas Becker said...

The jurors were shocked by the corruption, but one trip into "The Ambassador Report" should show them that it isn't an anomoly in the Armstrongist Churches of God, but rather, the norm.

Gold. Diamonds. Expensive autos. Jetsetting trips. Using the church as a personal cash machine. Living it up in a mansion at church expense. Charging food and expensive clothing to the church. Money and personal items for family members. Think that describes Ronald Weinland?

It describes Herbert Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God.

But instead of $3.5 million, it is Billions of dollars (the trough was deeper and wider). There's that yaucht that was rented. The thousands of dollars Herbert Armstrong took with him in cash for "spending money".

If the jury were exposed to the corruption and fraud in the general population of the Armstrongist Churches of God at large, they would be even more shocked, dismayed and disgruntled.

But there's not one thing anyone can do about it because the scam is too far reaching as a pandemic outrage of manipulation, coercion and theft.

It would take centuries to uncover it all and many lifetimes.

DennisCDiehl said...

The one many theology show ALWAYS leads to this. Any organization with oversite of the leader or who claims a board of Elders etc, but who are in effect, enablers, will suffer this fate in time.

Because the Bible is FULL of one man shows from Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel to the Apostles and Paul, it's all the same. It is to these characters the lone theologians refer for their current behaviors. It is the origin of splits, schisms and painful hindsight on the part of most congregants with lessons learned. Most who follow such men however, seem to not get it until it becomes so painfully obvious they simply have to wake up.

In science, one does not pick one scientist to explain the wonders of life and the universe to them. In religion , that is the norm and few give it any thought. It is held in place with words like "true church," "the faithful", "chosen", "we" and "I". Such concepts would be scorned out of the room in science and all real disciplines.

If you look closely, you notice that the more an intelligent and integrated man or woman studies theology, religion and the real origins and background of the Bible, they eventually end up either teaching it liberally to students who need to understand it the Sunday School version is not going to cut it with educated and intelligent congregations, nor should it. Or they simply have to leave ministry and move on.

They don't ban the Internet on the campus of Bob Jones University out of respect for inquiry. The Internet is the biggest threat to religion since the Crusades and Inquisition.

Ron Weinland is a symptom. Perhaps it will help some in the other COG splinters to take a look at what it is they accept from the one man and why and make more informed decisions about their own spiritual and religious life.

I knew Ron. How he could be so stupid and slack is beyond me. It belies his sincerity, and tell us all , as we suspected, he had and has emotional problems and that he, like other one man WCG leftovers, need medication and not congregation.

If he is by definition a sociopath or narcissists, that is not something you go to school for. It is a kind of mind that slips through the cracks and gets to find a place to manifest. Years ago at lunch I told Joe Tkach "the Church" needed to impliment at least personality testing to see if the man fit the ministry etc. Well....we know how that went. He rejected that outright and of course probably because it would expose his own weaknesses for the position he was in.

Instead, WCG chose to just move it's problem children around. No strange that the very ones that have risen to the top (of nothing) and who we keep an eye on today, are the very ones who have a career made on move after move to give relief to one congregation and start yet another on the road to anger, frustration and begging for the guy to get moved.

I can't think of one man who obviously did not belong in the job with people who was told he was not being permitted to go on hurting others. Strange really.

Let's hope our own experiences can continue to help those who are probably genuinely confused yet again over how difficult it is both understand the Bible and trust those who think they know.

Religion is what others pour into your head. Where to be and when, what to think and how much to send in. Spirituality is an inside job and drives the merely religious nuts. They don't understand it and can't control it.

DennisCDiehl said...

PS "I'was wrong. I'm sorry and apologize. Please forgive me..." are simply not concepts any current COG leader is capable of grasping.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Douglas Becker said, "The jurors were shocked by the corruption, but one trip into "The Ambassador Report" should show them that it isn't an anomoly in the Armstrongist Churches of God, but rather, the norm."

MY COMMENT - The Weinland conviction should be a wake-up call to all other wannabe HWA apostles in the 700+ splinters who use a church entity as their personal piggy bank.

While all of America was experiencing the Great Recession and the financial crises, fraudster felon Ron Weinland was living his delusional lifestyle of the rich and famous. There is nothing wrong with being "rich and famous" - but you must pay your taxes and funneling personal expenses through a church entity is tax evasion - plain and simple.

Ron Weinland has now brought another public negative mark on the legacy of Herbert W. Armstrong.


Douglas Becker said...

Dr. Robert Hare spent his whole career as a psychologist studying psychopaths and to date, there does not seem to be any effective treatment -- primarily because they are just fine with their lifestyle.

Dr. Sam Vaknin, world renowned authority on narcissist, who wrote the book, Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited said that he is a narcissist and the prognosis for recovery is poor (non existent, actually). He speaks of the lies (about the self of the narcissist) of being truth -- his truth, and points out that for a narcissist, it is not you who is disappointed, it is the narcissist who is disappointed in you!

By claiming that this mental disorder is just the cross to bear for a sad sick person, let my put you straight: It is not a disease, it is a moral choice.

Moreover, for certain kinds of people, it is an imperative to be apologists for such people -- which is playing right into their hands.

It's all a con game, for which there is absolutely and positively no excuse.

Anonymous said...

I believe that Stanley Rader used to say, "I don't take stupid pills." I guess Ron overdosed on them. Rader also said, "It's not what you own, it's what you control." HWA could claim, "I don't own anything but my clothing," yet he lived like a millionaire. His 1981 income tax form shows an adjusted gross income of $421,052 with contributions of $46,5789, 11%. He must have given the smallest percentage of his income to The Work than any other member. He doesn't have to "steal" when he gets that kind of income. This says nothing about an expense account. But, Rader must have kept him just this side of the law to keep him out of trouble.

Douglas Becker said...

Yes, Herbert Armstrong's expense account. $50,000 cash for each of his trips just in case... just in case he needed to rent a yacht on the Mediterranean for "the Work". $68,000 for gold and silver tableware in his "resident" from Harrod's -- spent as the largest expediture ever in one day by anyone there. The diamond cufflinks he just couldn't resist and had to have (now there's personal clothing for ya -- and Weinland's church expenditures at Nordstrom's, notwithstanding).

It was a terrible mistake for the State of California to sue.

It should have been the IRS.

Douglas Becker said...

What's really disturbing that a PKG member living across the street put up her house as collateral to pay Weinland's bail.

Akk! Akk!

Error! Error!


Anonymous said...

maybe they'll look at Dave next.

Douglas Becker said...

Ronald Weinland: A Herbert Armstrong mini-me.

Byker Bob said...

This one man study gets us to the very fundamentals, and should be a huge red flag or wakeup call for all those in the ACOGs. The behavior in which Weinland has indulged is the diametric opposite of the behavior which God's Holy Spirit is described as producing in the followers of Jesus Christ throughout the New Testament, and frankly, even under the Old Covenant in the Old Testament which "they" so revere.

I am sure there are those in the ACOGs who are aware of Weinland's ludicrous behavior and trial, but who firmly believe that he is an anomaly, and that their own leaders could never fall to this level. But, they are wrong. Weinland's pathology is clearly patterned after HWA's, and his philosophies towards money and the perks due to those who would (as defined by them) spread the gospel are shared by all of the current "leaders" who were trained by HWA and/or his system.

Certain pathologies are just bad by nature no matter how we attempt to spin or whitewash them. Bad pathology never produces good fruit! I fail to see how Weinland's pathology is any less bad or destructive than that which Kevin Dean is being sought for.


Byker Bob said...


Kevin Dean is accused of physical child abuse. Weinland is guilty of the horrendous abuse of spiritual children. The crimes are completely the same, just on different planes!


Anonymous said...

In listening to the sermon being given today in PKG not by Ron, it is obvious his ministry does not understand or cannot allow themselves to understand the huge difference between persecution, living a difficult life to honor God, and crime, lawbreaking and self serving.

Using every scripture in the Bible about all things working together, persecution for righteousness sake and such to explain why Ron is confined to his home is denial beyond reason.

The man committed tax fraud. He is a materialistic and self serving human being far before you get to his being a minister part. This has nothing to do with apostacy, persecution, or keeping the Sabbath.

Wake up folks. It has to do with mispending your money or God's whatever on himself and his family.

As the juror noted, the man is a sociopath and needs to be punished for his crimes, not his faith.


Anonymous said...


"It's sad to say, but true: Even Warren Buffett fires people.

After Denis Abrams, CEO of Benjamin Moore -- a company owned by Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway -- used company money to take his corporate staff on a getaway to Bermuda to celebrate the company’s first quarterly sales increase in years, Buffett fired Abrams, the New York Post reports. The island getaway allegedly included a dinner cruise aboard a yacht that some vacation attendees believed was owned by singer Jimmy Buffett.

Abrams isn't the first CEO to be fired for an outlandish use of company money.

Warren Buffet


PKG should fire Ronald Weinland..for the same things and worse.

oops I forgot:

" “The children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.”


Douglas Becker said...

Is this another episode of Undercover Restaurant?

Anonymous said...

Go ahead and mock God's anointed. You will have to kneel at the feet of God begging for mercy when your day of reckoning comes! There is a mighty work ahead of us and we will not be thwarted by attacks by Satan against God's own.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: "maybe they'll look at Dave next"

And then Flurry...and Meredith...and Luker...and Ritenbaugh...and the rest of the whole shamozzle of ACOGs! Or is that too ambitious a thought?


Assistant Deacon said...

Hey, Anonymous, we're not mocking God's anointed. We're mocking Ron Weinland. Get your facts straight.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Anonymous June 16, 2012 6:51 PM
said... "Go ahead and mock God's anointed. You will have to kneel at the feet of God begging for mercy when your day of reckoning comes! There is a mighty work ahead of us and we will not be thwarted by attacks by Satan against God's own".

MY COMMENT - Blah, Blah, Blah; I heard that all my life. As PT Barnum use to say, "You can fool some people ALL the time!"

(Note: PT = Plain Truth)


Byker Bob said...

No teacher from Armstrongism is "God's Annointed." If God had had any special relationship with HWA, or the original WCG, believe me, the tribulation would have started in 1972, and Jesus would have returned in 1975!