Thursday, October 24, 2013

David C. Pack Has Never Taken Responsibility For Any Of His Actions. It Is Always The Fault Of Everyone Else.



Here is a letter that David C. Pack wrote when he stabbed Global Church of God in the back in 1999.  Dave is still the same arrogant narcissist today as he was back then.  He assumes no responsibility for anything.  He and he alone is the correct one standing up for the "truth".

May 1, 1999
 

To the Council of Elders and all Global ministers: 

On Wednesday, April 28, 1999, the Council of Elders of the Global Church of God took actions against me because of charges brought by Jack Hendren, the Global Pastor in New England.  After putting me formally on trial and subsequent jury deliberation, my sentence, as I understood it, was the following: 

1.  Unilateral removal from the Council of Elders
2.  Put on probation as a minister over Akron and Michigan only.
3.  Removal of Ontario, Canada, from my pastorate and assigning it for an undetermined period of time to the man who brought the charges against me, Jack Hendren.
4.  A requirement that I apologize to Jack Hendren for statements made to him during various stages of my trial.  It was also suggested that I apologize to the men in Global who I have felt to be teaching numerous false doctrines.  To call them false doctrines or heresies or the men themselves, heretics, is just too harsh and is a railing accusation, etc.
5.  Be more supportive of Global headquarters when people call me about doctrines being taught by ministers in Global that are different than what Mr. Armstrong taught.  In essence, play it down, go along more, calm people, sort of spread a cover over issues, don't tell people that the teachings are wrong or that they are heresy, describe them as alternative views, say that Mr. Armstrong often tolerated alternative views, etc. etc. etc.
6.  Be more encouraging to people to send offerings and money to San Diego (when they come to me troubled about matters in point five --  which often occurs in a discussion of this type). 

I promised the Council last Wednesday during my sentencing that I would not do anything before I notified them whether or not I could comply.  I stated I would not use some kind of "four-day interval" in the same manner we so recently observed.  That was patently dishonest and I would not do it.  I have, in fact, reached the point where I cannot comply with the above points.  This is all summarized in a single sentence written by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong in Mystery of The Ages, page 262.  "It is the duty of Christ's true ministers (and how few today), to protect the begotten but yet unborn saints from false doctrines and from false ministers".  The reason he said this is wonderfully summarized in a second quote from Mr. Armstrong from the Personal,  Good News, December, 1976. "I have frequently been pressured to compromise - - 'just a little' - - with God's Truth."
"Nevertheless, if we begin to compromise with God's TRUTH, even in smallest, slightest manner, we have allowed Satan to get a foot into the door of the Church, and soon he will push open the door (for he is stronger than we) and take over the whole Church."
"A little leaven leavens the WHOLE LUMP!"

I could add far more quotes and scriptures to back up this position and, in fact, the whole issue of doctrine is only one of many reasons why I stated so strongly in recent days and weeks that I believe that the Global Church of God has taken its position among the various other corporate segments of the Laodecian world.

One other specific I wish to add here.  You all realize that I have said quite plainly and repeatedly that Global is headed for bankruptcy.  Many experienced businessmen, accountants and related professionals agree.  Owning a good-sized corporation gives me some experience in cash management which many ministers cannot be privy to.  We are not taking the action we should.  I warned five months ago today (December 1, 1998) that this would soon be upon us.  The brethren are being systematically kept in the dark as catastrophe looms before us.  The ministry are told little more.  I have asked for expense information as a member of the Council and heard nothing over and over.  I have been asked repeatedly to not talk about this, to play it down, to have more faith, to put the best face on it because too much information will "panic" the brethren, etc.  The brethren are not dumb sheep and ought not be treated as such.  I Cor. 4:2 makes it plain that stewards/treasurers (Greek) must be found faithful.  Perhaps you have recently dealt with the budget this week but I would not know that having been recently removed from the Council the very day before we were all set to discuss it - - FINALLY.

I am formally resubmitting to the Council this letter (in very, very brief detail) and including the ministry with the same issues attached from previous discussions and memos from me.

I consider myself released from any obligation that I may not speak freely to any of God's people or ministers who ask me for a forthright explanation of doctrine, events, finances, etc.  I repeat in writing what I said before.  I will never again cover for, vouch for, account for, explain, or otherwise support actions, decisions, teachings or conduct by people far away over which I have no control.

[At this point in this letter it is Friday afternoon, April 30, and I have just learned about the special announcement to be read in all churches this Sabbath.  Once again I've been blind- sided.  The announcement is utterly false when it says that I said I would "comply".  I'll explain shortly.  It is also false to say that I "accepted" the terms.  I'll explain shortly.  The balance of this now much longer letter will take into account the massive dis/misinformation this announcement creates.  Once again the dynamics of corruption wish to control the spin machine.  This is so that, once again, the brethren will believe a spoon-fed rendition that I could never agree with.  It is truly fascinating that there seems to be an urgent need (it says get this "to all Hosts in your area as soon as possible") to spread this account while nothing is said of the tremendously important issues that drove Jack Hendren to prosecute me in front of a jury of the Council.  Also accompanying this letter you will be able to access two additional letters from the "witnesses" that Mr. Hendren purports to represent.  Four adults in his pastorate will tell you in their own words how terribly he misrepresented them in his zeal to suppress my voice from protecting God's sheep from many many heresies all through Global.  These four members will tell you how they feel about being used as "witnesses" when they were not asked to appear in person or told that Jack Hendren's spin on their doctrinal concerns within Global would be presented without their permission.  Their letters will speak eloquently for themselves.]

"ACCEPTANCE" AND "COMPLIANCE"?

I "accepted" some of the judgments of the Council because I was not offered a choice.  I "accepted" being thrown from the Council because I had offered to resign anyway (see resignation letter).  I accepted having probation and reduction of my pastorate only for the short period I wanted to consider what to do.  I absolutely did NOT accept the terms of point 4, 5 and 6.  I told them I would not take any action without notifying them first and that I would temporarily comply for days, or more, until I could not any longer. 

I said I would try to be careful during this period.  I said I would not ask for a "four day interval" and use it to hurt the church.  However, I had repeatedly made it clear during the many many hours of my two-day trial that I considered the entire proceeding to be a kangaroo court, a sham, a blind-siding by cowardly, feckless men who had deceived me Tuesday night into believing the matter was at rest.  Once I had agreed to go to Bill Swanson and Harold Smith and tell them their teachings were shot full of nearly endless heresies,  I was clearly assured that if they did not "hear me" that, in fact, I could bring two witnesses as Jack Hendren had done with me and THEY would be addressed for their heresies rather than me being "addressed" and silenced in my attempt to protect many sheep from them.  There was no doubt that this attempt to silence me followed a pattern that leaders in the church over many years have used against me. 
Dave has been in trouble all his "ministry" because he treats people like dirt.

I have been in trouble most of my ministry because people of compromise cannot bow or break me in my adherence to the exact doctrines of Mr. Armstrong.  Matthew 10:16-18 tells God's servants they ought to expect to be "called before the Councils" and "scourged in the synagogues".  Believe me, I was.  This is the second time this has happened in six months and the reason is PRECISELY the same as last November - - true doctrine vs. heresy!!  Only the names of the prosecutors have changed.  The mindset driving the prosecution has not.  Matthew 24:10 says we live in a time of betrayal, hatred, and many offenses.   I plainly told the Council I would get back to them when I could not comply.  The early part of this letter made that non-compliance intention clear.  God's people ought to have a place to meet where they need not fear being threatened by heretics and false doctrines while meeting in peace and brotherly love.  They are being betrayed and sold out for money - - the tithe money of people we would lose if we silenced the heretics.  I told them over and over again that they could fire me but they could not break me.  Trials, demotions, terminations and persecutions merely strengthen and empower me.  I have been tried so many times that it is almost comfortable for me now.  I'm stronger today than I was before 10 men tried to bow me on Wednesday.  God sustained me and always does. 

It seems that the lesson of not only the last 10 years but of the last 2000 years is that men continue to sell out over and over again, in this case because of a need for and desire for more uninterrupted money from God's flock while the corporation continues to crash toward bankruptcy.  If God's True sheep in Global are not warned sufficiently in advance to be prepared to unfasten their corporate seat belts, many of them will be as blind-sided then as I've been now in these matters and will get "killed" in great numbers.  Many will conclude that because men deceived them again they no longer have to obey God. 

Remember, I run a corporation.  I've watched 11 companies built within my family by very successful businessmen.  Being a minister does not make one a businessman as many of you know so very well.  I cannot sit back and watch further betrayal of God's people.  In conclusion, I stated very clearly after my "sentencing" that I did not wish to agree to any conditions I could not meet.  I intended to act honorably.  I told them plainly that I knew they would try to "catch me in words" and that James 3:1-2 says that "in many words we offend all".  I told them I knew they would catch me in something. 
I told them they would have to find me guilty of division and discord which they did.  I repeatedly told them that they could not get me for heresy because I'll compromise NOTHING. . .  that they could not get me for sins such as lying, cheating, stealing or adultery, etc. etc.. . .  or for having a financial motive of some kind because my circumstances preclude that.  The only way they could claim I "erred" was that when brethren called me, I acknowledged false teachings and heresies for what they were. 

Since headquarters will not obey Romans 16:17, Titus 1:11 and 3:10-11, II Thes. 3:6 and Proverbs 22:10, among others (please reread all these verses Mr. Armstrong taught us) I am left with the choice of being a good "company man" or to "obey God rather than man" and to obey the instructions Mr. Armstrong gave us all and gave me personally.  The epilogue of my book "Except There Come a Falling Away" includes a section of 21 quotes from Mr. Armstrong on these matters.  These are powerful, strong, clear quotes that leave no room for compromise - - something our previous or the current leaders simply do not and WILL NOT comprehend. 

Not one reference to Mr. Armstrong was made in my trial.  I quoted him verbatim repeatedly as I did early in this letter.  The quotes were ignored and explained away.  The Bible was rarely cited except at the outset by Mr. Hendren.  I cited it frequently.  I went through the above 5 verses and they were ignored as irrelevant.  This was, after all, deemed to be a Matt. 18:15 matter by Jack Hendren.  He purported that I was causing offense by identifying heresies and protecting people (who sought me out) rather than that the false teachings/ers were causing offense.  I have gone to headquarters and these men through the years about their false teachings.  They are ignored.  God's people cry out.  They are also ignored.  What is a person of courage to do?  I will not abandon God's people but I do expect the multiple heresies to still be tolerated and the foolish decision-making and cover-up of the looming financial catastrophe to be tolerated as well.  Even if I am fired, which will almost certainly happen now, I still want to see Global survive for those who want to be part of an organization that mirrors the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that is so typical of the other major corporate segments of the Laodecian era that is upon us.  United was just days from insolvancy a year ago.  They made cuts.  They now have $2.4 million in the bank.  We all know they do not have many doctrines correct but they are surviving for those that want the kind of mix that they offer.

BANKING TITHES

I have been accused of telling people to bank their tithes.  I have not done this.  One lady misunderstood an explanation I gave her.  Many many people have asked me (in light of the doctrinal confusion in Global) if they should bank their tithes?  Some ask whether they should give or withhold extra offerings?  Sometimes this is asked in conjunction with concerns about an unwillingness to make necessary cuts to save the organization, per se.  If a perception of indifference toward proper financial management exists in Global, some wonder if they are tithing to a place that will not survive in the end.  I have told people what we have always said.  Tithes belong to God.  We've been taught to give them to the place where they believe that He is working.  We are all responsible for making our own judgment in this matter.  Absolutely false leaders have presented us with this decision  twice in this decade.  I explain to people that I am tithing because I am paid by Global.  They ought make their own decision.  Only one person seems to have misunderstood this explanation.  Incidentally, there are those who have heard my comments and who continue giving and others who hear it and are now banking their tithes.  I understand it's their call and they should make it.

IN HARM'S WAY

Certainly it would be easier and safer for me to give the good "company" answers that San Diego asks of me.  Since I wrote the books which collate  Mr. Armstrong's teachings in great detail, I am often the one that is called when people are threatened by heresy.  I am in harm's way.  Many don't go to headquarters because they know headquarters does not care as they should.  If I speak forthrightly to people as though they are not "dumb sheep", people like Jack Hendren (who has some doctrinal differences with Mr. Armstrong himself) feel uncomfortable and seek to prosecute the minister doing his duty as Mr. Armstrong instructed.  It should be noted, by the way, that I sent the four people to Jack Hendren after they came to me because he was their pastor.  I did the correct thing.  He knows this.  I shall not send anyone to him ever again.  Considering what happened, would you?

APOLOGIZE

I was asked to apologize to Harold Smith, Bill Swanson and Jack Hendren.  There seemed not to be ANY way to comply and I knew it.  I needed time to figure out how to address this ludicrous request.  Harold Smith is on the Council and actually voted on all the above measures that comprised my "sentencing".  Incredible!  However, I would like to now apologize FOR these men TO God's people.  Their teachings and Mr. Hendren's actions against me certainly require apology for the harm both have now done to God's church.  If only I could just go along with the heretics. . .if only I would just pipe down. . .if only I could learn to back off . . . relax. . .take it easy. . .not be so protective of the details of doctrine. . .get away from being hung up on Herbert Armstrong or that he was Elijah that restored all things. . ."holding fast WHAT WE HAVE that no man take our crown". . . "continuing in the Apostle's doctrine and fellowship". . . "holding fast the faithful Word AS I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT". . ."continue you in the things which you have learned and have been assured of KNOWING OF WHOM YOU LEARNED THEM". . ."proving ALL things and hold fast". . . and so many other verses.  If only I could be less "extremist  ". . .less reactionary. . .less ultra conservative. . .less right wing. . .if only, if only. . .but I can't and wasn't.  For this I will be hated by many.  I have recently sent out two tapes that conclusively prove that Mr. Armstrong was the Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6!  Part III will be given Sabbath to conclude it.  This doctrine is far far more important than you could ever imagine.  The tapes can be found on my website which is: http://home.neo.rr.com/pack Perhaps half the Council or more either does not believe this understanding at all or does so without understanding the tremendous implication of this teaching which Part III will explain.  Any who think I would ever compromise this teaching or its implications on ANY other teaching simply do not know me or the suffering I have done for 28 years as a minister.  It has galvanized my determination and will more than you can know.

DON'T GET DISCOURAGED

It would be tragic if discouragement drove some back to LCG where they not only do not teach that Mr. Armstrong was Elijah, but are also shot full of their own heresies.  Daniel 11:32-34 says that "but the people that do know their God shall be strong and do great works".  And "they that UNDERSTAND among the people shall INSTRUCT MANY: yet they shall fall by sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.  Now when they shall fall they shall be helped with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. . . even to the time of the end:"  Do you believe this?  Do you believe Gal. 6:1-2?  Do you believe James 5:19-20?  Do you believe Hebrews 10:23-26?  If you do, then you have to be out helping people.  You cannot sit back and ignore people being wounded by heresies that must come among us for reasons explained in I Cor. 11:19.  Individual people of the Era known for brotherly love simply must try to help people who are being captured by one heresy after another all around us.  When "good words and fair speeches are deceiving the hearts of the innocent" (Rom. 16:18) one must act and I did.  When a minister gives a series of sermons outlining a horribly wrong understanding of many important end-time  prophetic events and says he teaches "massively different" from Mr. Armstrong and then sends them all over, you must strive to protect people from these false ideas.  They are not just "alternative views" and harmless.  Paul said heresy is like cancer and leaven.  Cancer always spreads and kills its host.  Leaven always spreads and fills its host.  A little leaven leavens the whole lump.  I'm stuck on that, brethren and ministers.  I know that many brethren hear the voice of Christ in these words.  Since this is the tepid, lukewarm age, I know that most will not.  They'll say that we need only "speak the same things" (I Cor. 1:10) on doctrines that are "core", "basic", "fundamental", "major", or "essential for salvation".  There are two problems with this and both are BIG.  Everybody defines these doctrines differently and everything else is "up for grabs" depending upon what changes people want or need to make to accommodate their own thinking.  If people want  to make a change, they simply declare it to beneath the threshold of "core".  The problem is that this will not cut it before the judgment seat of Christ.  I fear God and will not please men.  Perhaps the above  condition is why a senior San Diego minister has recently reapproached United's Council to quietly reopen a dialogue with them (unbeknownst to the Global Council) to see where it may lead.

I am sending this everywhere because the announcement has been made everywhere.  I had no choice.  I have used no confidential mailing lists and merely wish to help my brothers in Christ.  If you think I am merely misled or very zealous or misinformed, then simply discard this letter.  I know that I will be countered and attacked furiously in days to come.  I cannot help that.  May God give me the grace and the courage to accept what will now happen to me with dignity.  I thank Him in advance.

In Christ's Name,
David C. Pack

P.S.  I have just read Raymond McNair's latest member letter alleging Global's determination to hold fast to the teachings of Mr. Herbert Armstrong.  Several people have already called me expressing shock at how he could say this right after he explains what he considers have been several minor changes in recent years.  Read paragraphs two and three carefully.  They claim the Bible as their authority for making changes.  What does this mean.  So did Joe Tkach.  So did Martin Luther.  So does Billy Graham.   So does Rod Meredith.  So does the Pope.  Can I announce my own changes if I say I got it from the Bible?  On Tuesday night of last week and Tuesday April, 13, Mr. McNair privately told me in nearly 3 ½ hours of conversation that he was deeply concerned about Harold Smith and Bill Swanson's numerous heresies.  He asked me to "be a warrior" and to really "help him" stand strong for doctrines in Global.  Even though Global should not be changing doctrines at all, this is a lesser problem to the one of ministers free lancing through Global with doctrines of every shape, flavor, color and texture known to man.  This member letter is timed to mute my warnings - - clearly - - and Mr. McNair knows it.  It is sad that he will privately speak so clearly to me while writing these things publicly.  At least his own public words betray the falsehood that we are standing fast in Global.  Who decides what is a small change or a large change anyway?  It's all in the eye of the beholder.  Is there not room for Herbert W. Armstrong in Global or one who teaches exactly like him?  It seems not.  Mr. Armstrong ROARED like a bull against heresy.  He "set himself to defend the Gospel" and "was in nothing terrified by his adversaries" (Phillip. 1:17, 28).  It was Mr. McNair who privately urged me several times during the recent split to not mention Mr. Meredith's two plus dozen doctrinal changes.  He kept telling me we'll just look bad because "Rod will just deny them, Dave, and what can we do.  He'll just say we exaggerated or explain them away".  This sounds remarkably like Mr. McNair's latest letter.  Obviously, Mr. McNair did not dissuade me from listing the doctrinal changes of RCM.  I knew that some few would still care though Mr. McNair did not think it important.  He kept telling me that we ought to  stress that this split was about  government.   Incidentally, I believe the government that the Board privately adopted in the days after the split is unscriptural.  I said so repeatedly at the time.  Global rejected having the leadership (not rulership) of one man.  Mr. Salyer was appointed President of the corporation.  Mr. Pope was appointed President of the Executive Committee.  And Mr. McNair Chairman of the Council and Board.  He has often told me that his power is limited to do the things he wants to do that are right.  He cannot deny saying this to me.  Mr. Armstrong many times condemned leadership by a committee.  Sadly, two straight false leader's conduct sparked a pendulum swing too far in the other direction.  I hope the reader will care enough to read the 12-15 quotes from Mr. Armstrong I have reviewed just today to know just how insidious it is to play down all of the changes through Global.  The brethren are being frauded by the happy face coming from San Diego in the last 24 hours since the guy who was warning them of financial and doctrinal problems has been booted from the Council and "check mated" by probation and the assertion that I acquiesced to my sentence and promised to "comply".  What a shame.

P.P.S.  Mr. Salyer's Friday evening letter to the ministry just arrived as well.  It is full of additional spin on why the finances are still good.  His comments are directed, at least partially, at me for sure.  I'm glad a few cuts have finally been enacted.  I'm one of those "businessmen" who will tell you they are not remotely enough to survive.  Once again, I want Global to survive for those who wish to be here.  My being fired will not cause me to say what the LCG people said - - that no Christians remained behind.  Maybe these statements will spur more cuts.  There is absolutely not a sliver of chance to repay the loans because Global will LONG since have run out of money before the payments are ever due November 1 - - let alone have the money to repay them.  Fellow ministers, please look at the budget projections you received in February.  Study what the offerings were SUPPOSED to be.  They were $89,000 not $124,000.  The April income was well under $120,000 not over $150,000 as projected.  March was up due to the special offerings but February looked like April.  The bank balance April 30 was supposed to be $251,000 plus not $100,000 plus.  An offering in late May will buy much of June.  That is good.  What happens after that will not be good.  This is a very rough look at a handful of the many additional reasons why I have written that catastrophe looms.  Again, I'm one of those "businessmen" Mr. Salyer says will be nervous by his report.  I also mentioned that March would end with very little in the bank.  Remember, I could not get people in San Diego to answer a variety of questions pertaining to expenses after mid-February.

13 comments:

Byker Bob said...

It would appear that there are numerous core issues here.

Obviously, Dave Pack believes that the primary mission of any organization calling itself "The Church of God" should be the preservation of a static and never changing set of the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong, as remembered by David Pack. This is a deeply flawed focus, but similarly claimed, interpreted and shared by other of his colleagues based on their own recollections.

He is also insubbordinate, as were all of the ministers who started their own groups. His insubbordination is based on the exclusive acceptance of the authority of Herbert W. Armstrong, who is no longer living, and not that of those "successors" to whose authority he initially accepted, to whom he reported, and from whom he received his paycheck. Making himself the sole arbiter of all things HWA, places Pack "above it all" and beyond authority.

I have no doubt that the charges he makes regarding fiscal matters were actually true. His leaving, and drawing some of the tithepayers with him, however, would have exacerbated the problems and accelerated the demise of GCG.

Though I believe Pack and his ego/self-righteousness are largely responsible for his troubles, I also know the ways in which matters of church government are typically handled in Armstrongite circles. Historically, they have been heavy-handed and not unlike a kangaroo court, and though Pack would never admit this, that methodology is directly attributable to Herbert W. Armstrong. Had the roles been reversed, where Jack Hendren had been accused, tried, and disciplined by DCP and the council, he probably would have felt that the system was working as HWA intended.

The root problem is Armstrongism itself. Pack is a fanatical product and preservationist of Armstrongism, while simultaneously finding himself at odds with it as an applied system. This is inevitable when you are a staunch defender of a totally false system, and practically defines the word "delusion". It is not unlike the way in which communism, Naziism, or the Mafia function.

David Pack is functioning with Armstrongism right now in the only way in which it is possible for him to do. In his mind, he is accountable only to dead Herb, whom he equates with Father God, and Jesus Christ.

BB

Anonymous said...

My take on it is that Dave is certainly a "businessman" when it comes to church and money. Money, money, money, that is what Dave is all about. He is a successful business man, his product is religion. He can sell it better than his competitors, he is a big winner when it comes to getting the money from the "believers" who cant think for themselves, those who have to be led. They deserve each other. Dave is a cult leader and sells Armstrong, because Armstrong was clever and figured out a really great scam for getting money and power. Dave wont address the documented corruption of Armstrong (sex with his daughter, his son's sexual perversion, the Rolls Royce cars, the private jets, the mansions, the art, gold, the wife 40 years younger than him, and more twisted but true facts about Herb). Herb was a con man, Dave admires the business model that Herb set up, Dave sticks to it. Dave is not only a fraud, he is a sociopath and will stop at nothing to achieve his goals: to win!, to be number 1, to have followers who adore him. But in the end, Dave will die and be buried and in 100 years, he wont matter at all.

Former RCG said...

Dave Pack has brought Armstrongism to whole different level. He operates much like Flurry and Weinland using HWA's name and most of his teachings, but adds additional prophetic garbage to prove he is now the leader through whom God is working through. RCG is all about Dave...and that's all it will ever be.

DennisCDiehl said...

Dave has always had a very bad case of verbal diarhea in all his writings. We have seen that in his 24 reasons (Dave Loves numbers and points ad naseum) why last summer had to be the Great Unification. He talks too much and too long. He had to cut his proofs down to 15 because he over thinkns and rambles because he's afraid you won't believe him if he can't go on and on. Dave needs to join On and On Anonymous.

Dave says:

"I have been in trouble most of my ministry because people of compromise cannot bow or break me in my adherence to the exact doctrines of Mr. Armstrong "

Or on any other topic he comes up with. Too bad Dave can't be unbending on what the Bible actually says if one is so inclined.

Dave seems to mistake stubborn ego centric thinking and a know it all personality for noble truth preserver. He really needs to sign up for some basic Christian theology courses at a local seminary or college.

In my view, HWA may have been sincere, warts and all, but he was not Bible literate in any formal or actual sense. He was a glorified Bible cut and paster like most COG ministers. Actually like most fundamentalists.

You are right here on his never accepting responsibility for the trail of tears. He has the inate ability to push people over the edge and then blame them for the reaction to the pushing.

I knew of one time Dave "apologized' but then retracted it a couple of days later. This of course, is a sign of the narcissistic nature. It is not curable or even treatable for the most part. Learning to live with it, if one chooses to subject themselves to it, is all one can do. They never change.

Ministers with these traits do incalcuable harm over time and then comes the explosion.

DennisCDiehl said...

Phrases "Reputed Pillars" never or seldom use nor can bring themselves to use.

"I was wrong. I apologize."

"You are correct."

"I understand completely why you feel that way."

"I am not always correct in my view of things."

"Perhaps that scripture doesn't mean what I always thought it meant."

"Yes, my sermons are way too long."

"It would probably be wise to get a consensus before doing that."

"Of course HWA made mistakes and was not prone to listen to advice."

"I really appreciate your input and concerns"

"The Bible doesn't really refer specifically to me."

"I probably do lack all the theological and historical church training necessary to draw correct conclusions."

"You're right. I have a tendency to think the Bible has only four books. Daniel, I and II Thesalonians and Revelation."

"You're right. Last summer I thought the Bible only had one book...Haggai."

"Let me ask your advice..."

"Sure...I'd be happy to read that book."

Byker Bob said...

Folks, I think we just discovered via Dave's letter (or is this his idea of a doctoral thesis?) the cause of all the splintering! Some of the "ministers" do not accept anyone's authority over them except for that of dead Herb. Others do not believe that church doctrine is analogous to a dead language, and want it to continue to evolve. There are probably other dynamics at work here, but these two alone insure that there will continue to be a bumper crop of schisms and splinters.

It is called "Armstrongism" because the system is based on venerating HWA above and beyond other leaders from the past 2,000 years, and even the original apostles. For all practical purposes within the movement he is considered to be the equal of Jesus. Dave's letter illustrates that very clearly.

BB

DennisCDiehl said...

anon said:

"But in the end, Dave will die and be buried and in 100 years, he wont matter at all."


You're being far too generous. I say ONE year.

Anonymous said...

"Folks, ... Some of the "ministers" do not accept anyone's authority over them except for that of dead Herb."

Dave doesn't let a "dead Herb" have authority over him.
He pretends to do so since he's just another sleazy salesman who knows what his targets want to hear, but the reality is that only Dave has authority over Dave.

He'll use his sleazy sales tactics as needed to have his tithing audience believe he's being 100% true to H.W. Armstrong, and most of his followers will believe him, but it's not based in reality.

Anonymous said...

Why no comments on DCP new video, "Behind the work 2013: A city set on a Hill" (set to destruction)? It's all about him and HA and shows how he is copying everything like his idol.

There are so many arms going up and hand talking, along with pride. It's sick! All a facade.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Why no comments on DCP new video, "Behind the work 2013: A city set on a Hill" (set to destruction)? It's all about him and HA and shows how he is copying everything like his idol.

There are so many arms going up and hand talking, along with pride. It's sick! All a facade.

October 25, 2013 at 5:12 PM


I watched that propaganda video, and I find it interesting that Dave admits 40 minutes into the film that he coveted a property on the Wadsworth market when he saw it in 2007. In 2008 his clarion call, pull big triggers mandate went out for people to liquidate and send it all in to him.

At 49 minutes into the film, an RCG representative admits they had to have a bank loan for the construction. Something Dave Pack lied about and said they didn't need bank loans.

14 minutes into the flick, an RCG representative repeats Dave Pack debunked lie that Dave developed the Plain Truth distribution idea. Worldwide News reported at the time who the developer was, and it was not Dave Pack.

Nemesis of Pack

Anonymous said...

Oct 25, 5:12 Thanks for pointing out the admission of taking out a loan. It's good to know that he has the debt hanging over his head. I hope he gets in deeper and deeper, then the tithes dry up. Now I better understand the desperation that is obvious in his ploys to squeeze more money from whoever he can coerce into giving it. His RCG will be history.

Joe Moeller said...

What I find funny on the Pack promotional video for 2013 FOT , is that the announcer they chose for the voiceover has a voice almost identical to the now deceased Art Gilmore.

Gilmore was a well known announcer for many movies and TV shows, including the World Tomorrow program for the WCG. However, Gilmore was NEVER a member of the WCG, nor was he sympathetic to it. In fact, after the Tkach revolution, he actually praised the WCG for becoming more orthodox in its beliefs.

Pack, however, in his effort to be "all things Armstrong" has found a replacement announcer with a voice so close to Gilmore, that only an educated ear can tell the difference.

Does Pack have an original bone in his body anywhere? Will Big Beak be resurrected too? How soon will it be that Pack will have a jet? Will Pack be consuming copious amounts of Harveys Bristol Cream?

Time will tell.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Anonymous said...

I remember telling Pack that something he had said in a sermon was incorrect and showed/told it to him. He said he would take it out of his taped message. I asked him why he would not at least mention it and tell people that the opposite was true.....end of conversation....typical.