Friday, February 24, 2017

Rod Meredith on False Prophets in the Church Today

It is always entertaining watching various Church of God leaders calling other Church of God leaders "false prophets" when they have lied through their teeth for decades with one false prophecy after another.  Rod Meredith has been one of the main culprits in spreading false lies, though this does not clear the other COG liars like Pack, Flurry, Malm, and Thiel who are equally culpable.

Meredith has an article out in the January/February issue of Tomorrow's World published by the Living Church of God. Like almost every single article he writes, he starts off with negativity mixed with doom and gloom.  This time it is geared directly towards the various splinter cult leaders of Armstrongism. These vile men are just waiting to snatch the crowns from LCG members heads. You hear that Almost-arrested Bob Thiel?
These self-willed, vain men may even affect the lives of thousands of you Tomorrow’s World subscribers, if you allow them to. We in this Work have repeatedly taught you the very “way” of life that Jesus Christ taught His own disciples. We have sent out—absolutely free—millions of magazines and booklets explaining the Ten Commandments and how to keep them with God’s help. We have repeatedly encouraged you to embrace the “Original Christianity” of Jesus Christ and the apostles—all based upon obedience to the law of love and the way of God.
But, as time goes on, many false teachers will rise up and try to turn sincere people away from the true Work of God. It has always been so. The Apostle Paul had to warn the Corinthian elders: “For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves” (Acts 20:29–30). Jesus Himself warned us: “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?... Therefore by their fruits you will know them” (Matthew 7:15–16, 20). 
Every single COG is filled with "self-willed and vain men."  Just like  Thiel, Pack and Furry.  Has the church ever had three more vain men? What about the false teachers? Is not Meredith also a false teacher?  He certainly has led people astray over the decades. He is just like the other wolves, Thiel, Malm, Pack and Furry.  Has the church ever had a more dishonest and corrupt cabal than with these men?

According to Meredith there is no other church on earth who has as much love as does LCG.

He writes:
What is the “fruit”—the result—of sincere people being taught to follow the example of Christ and the original apostles? It is a people who genuinely try to love and to serve one another. It is a people who love the Creator God and joyously observe His weekly Sabbaths and His annual Holy Days and—through Christ living within them—walk in the way of the Ten Commandments.
Do you notice the one thing that is missing?  Not a single word about following that most inconvenient dude.  It is more important to keep sabbath and holy days.  Apparently Jesus only indwells in those following old event rules.

Meredith then tells his followers to not get upset over his many failed prophecies and inane rantings.  Besides, his inane blathering are just minor "technical" infallibility's.  It is wrong for church members to get upset over such silly things as failed prophecies and inane utterances that Meredith has made over the decades.
By contrast, when a spirit of doubt and discouragement is sown among God’s people, often over minor and disputed “technical points” of prophecy or chronology, the “fruit” is not good. Paul warned Timothy to emphasize “sound doctrine,” telling him to “remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith” (1 Timothy 1:3–5).
When has Rod Meredith ever loved with a pure heart and a clear conscience?   Apparently he and his ministers are the most loving, humble, and best examples to their flocks that could ever imagine. More importantly, because these men are so great it is a requirement that members SUBMIT themselves to them.  When LCG members submit themselves to the ministry they are humbled.
All true doctrines come back to God’s commandments being based on love (v. 5) and service. All true ministers of Jesus Christ emphasize that approach—that way of life. True ministers of Christ will humble themselves and try in every way they can to encourage and to serve God’s people. In his letter—as recorded in the Bible—the Apostle Peter told the ministers he was overseeing not to be, “lords over those entrusted to you” but rather to be “examples to the flock” (1 Peter 5:3). Then, Peter continued, “Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for ‘God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.’ Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time” (vv. 5–6).
Meredith then warns his members to be wary of liars and self-appointed false teachers like Bob Thiel, James Mam and Dave Pack.
Back in apostolic times, when one of the original false apostles began to deceive people, your Bible records that this man went around “claiming that he was someone great” (Acts 8:9). Ultimately, the final great rebellion against God will be led by a vain, self-willed man, “who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God” (2 Thessalonians 2:4).
 Have we ever seen to more vain men than Bob Thiel and Dave Pack?
So, when any individual tries to “appoint” himself as an “apostle” or proclaim himself as a “prophet,” watch out! For God warns us, over and over: “And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Matthew 23:12; see also Luke 14:1118:14).
Then Meredith makes a statement that the will surely set Thiel and Pack over the deep end.  No one alive today has EVER produced the signs that indicate apostleship or prophethood.  Bob Thiel will suffer major butthurt over this.
None of us in this Work, which brings you the Tomorrow’s World television program and this magazine, has ever tried to proclaim himself a “prophet,” or an “apostle.” For the word of God describes the “signs” of an apostle as, “signs and wonders and mighty deeds” (2 Corinthians 12:12). No one living today has produced those types of “signs” to indicate true apostleship—or prophethood! 
You can read the rest of Meredith's spiel here:  FALSE PROPHETS ARE COMING!



Anonymous said...

On reading this I am sure "doubly blessed" Bob will have "double butt hurt".

Redfox712 said...

Meredith boasts that LCG members keep the Sabbath and the Holy Days. But these things are celebrated in their own way.

For Jews the Feast of Tabernacles is a joyous celebration. They observe Sabbaths on the first and eighth days of that beautiful festival. They build booths on their property and celebrate there. They visit family and friends and share their common joy. They do not go to some faraway place to attend some eight day indoctrination conference removing themselves from home all that time.

But the COGs turned this joyous family festival into a yearly conference. Many churches and organizations have an annual conference. Usually they only last for a weekend to be convenient for most people. But HWA did not know anything about the Jewish festival and got his followers to go out to a feast site for eight days removing them from their homes for eight days. The Armstrongite Feast of Tabernacles is nothing like the Feast of Tabernacles described in the Old Testament and celebrated by Jews today.

Anonymous said...

"The final great rebellion will be .." In case Rod missed it, the church/s are a shadow of former numbers under Herbie. The great rebellion has come and gone. But Rod doesn't want to be perceived as a splinter leader. He wants to be regarded as the leader of the one true church with the splintering yet to come. Such childish lying.
He states that the ministers are not to lord it over members, when church culture is one of doing just that. In other words, believe his nice words rather than the reality. So according to Rod 'you shall know them by their words.' Forget their works, just listen to and believe Rods and his minions nice sounding words, and all will go well with you.

Redfox712 said...

And another thing. Among Jews the annual Sabbaths are celebrated for two days. (Except in the Holy Land.) In ancient times Jews outside of the Holy Land were unsure when the various annual Sabbaths were to be observed so it became the rule that they were observed for two days to make sure one of the days was correct. (Except for the Day of Atonement, I think.)

What happened was that the new moons were determined by observers in the Holy Land. Those who watched the sky to determine if it was a new moon or not told the religious authorities and they declared which day was the new moon and calculate when to observe those days from that. Consequently the Feast of Trumpets was particularly difficult for Jews outside of the Holy Land to observe since the determination was made in the Holy Land and it took time for the information to get to them on which day was correct.

And even today, when new moons can be determined quite accurately, this rule is still observed by many Jews.

It is clear that HWA knew very little about the annual Sabbaths. There is no evidence that he ever bothered to consult with Jews about these festivals. He made up the COGs' observance of these things as he went along. He twisted these festivals that are precious for Jews into a club to discredit the mainstream Christian churches. He changed the Feast of Tabernacles into an eight day indoctrination conference. It is terrible what HWA did to these beautiful festivals. Meredith boasts that their observance of these things prove that God is with LCG but they know little about these festivals. Christians are under no obligation to observe these things. We should show respect to these festivals and just leave these festivals alone.

Anonymous said...

Never been in LCG and ive always been wary of Meredith but I agree with him the Churches of God are brimming with vain, self willed leaders and wannabee leaders. More bizarrely for Meredith stating that to be called an apostle you have to have the God given power to perform great signs and wonders and mighty deeds once and for all shoots Herbert Armstrong being an apostle dead. Go rod !

Steve D said...

Meredith writes, "We have repeatedly encouraged you to embrace the “Original Christianity” of Jesus Christ and the apostles." It is my understanding that Jesus was a Jew, he ate, dressed, and worshipped as a Jew. The New Testament Church, among the Gentiles, never ate, dressed or worshipped as Jews. New Testament Christians in Jerusalem did not eat, dress or worship as Gentile Christians. Paul remained a Jew for life and was welcomed in the synagogues where he "reasoned with them" concerning the Messiah, Jesus. Paul was a Messianic Jew. But his Jewish practices were never imposed upon the Gentiles. When I correspond with the letter answering department of the LCG, they give me examples of Jesus observing the Sabbath, etc. as proof that this was required of the NT church. Can these people make a distinction between what Jesus did as a Jew and what the church should be doing? But of course, the LCG's biggest problem is being inconsistent. Judaism required adult males to go to Jerusalem three times a year for Holy Days; the LCG requires everyone to attend. There are many laws that Jews observed that the LCG does not observe. The Law of Moses is not a cafeteria of rules that you can "pick any twelve". This wouldn't bother me so much but for the fact that they are such hypocrites and arrogant about their understanding of Scripture.

Hoss said...

Referring to HWA, Redfox wrote: There is no evidence that he ever bothered to consult with Jews about these festivals.

True. If sources like GG Rupert passed the proof-texting test, that all he needed.
I remember the "must play" Pentecost sermon. When HWA realized he was backed into a corner over the issue of counting 50 days, he apparently consulted someone. He said he phoned his "Hebrew teacher" who explained that the Hebrew meaning was not the same as his interpretation of the English translation.
Dr Hoeh, on the other hand, apparently said he could prove by scripture whatever HWA wanted it to mean.

Anonymous said...

If you have any doubts about your splinter leader's closeness to God, just go to Galatians and compare the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit:

Works of the flesh: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries

Fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control

Old Rod hasn't committed adultery or fornication, as far as anybody can tell. He hasn't even been in a porn shop for many years, though there was that one sermon where he admitted that he and his wife had "researched" porn on the Internet and on TV. To his credit, unlike his children, he keeps any drunkenness and revelries private. So far, so good. But then we come to:

hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy

That's life in LCG in a nutshell! Meanwhile, how often do you see the fruit of the spirit displayed by LCG ministers or what Rod likes to call the "top men"? LCG members learn to cope in a world where they must look over their shoulder for spies. They watch their frightened leaders jockey for more power or at least to be left alone by those who would crush them. Eventually, if you stay in LCG long enough, the programming will get to you, and you too will come to believe that the abuse you are receiving is love, and that because you are so abused LCG must be the most loving Church of God there is.

Minimalist said...

Does Living University ever look into the origins of 7-day week, new moon observance, seasonal harvest/fertility festivals? No? Didn't think so.

Byker Bob said...

Ludicrous, and pathetic. How many times have we heard HWA being called "God's Apostle", of the "endtimes Elijah", and Meredith, "third in command"? How many times have we listened to the drivel that knowing and teaching the correct doctrinal approach of the early Jewish Christian church for the first time in 2,000 years had unlocked the understanding of end times prophecy? What it got us was 1975, and embarrassed back-pedaling as that failed, cruel treatment and continued exploitation. This, in spite of being able to know for a fact today that it is impossible for Anglo Saxons or Celts to have descended from the tribes of Israel, or for Germans (who are related to the other western Europeans) to have descended from Assyrians. It is also a matter of history that the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox can be traced back to St. Paul's gentile churches.

Meredith is no different from the people whom he condemns. His work has been based on Herbert Armstrong just as the rest ot them. Sorting out the mess is not as simple as his article makes it seem. They all follow a millennia-old blueprint of plugging current events into the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and then falsely claiming special understanding, pay and obey. Meredith's house is also glass, though apparently he thinks it is polycarbonate.


Anonymous said...

apparently Redfox thinks the Jews understand....

Black Ops Mikey said...

I prophesy that Roderick Meredith will die.


It's a gift.

Connie Schmidt said...

Rod Meredith stated - "We have sent out—absolutely free—millions of magazines and booklets"

Important disclosure that he omits- "However, if you want access to God , it is going to cost you upwards of 30% of your income"

There needs to be some "truth in advertising". It would be far cheaper to simply buy the literature, magazines and booklets , "en toto" for three easy payments of $59.95 than to be hooked into RCM and the requirements of LCG.

Ed said...

There are no,"false profits" in the churches. They are enjoy, "real profits".

Anonymous said...

The holy spirit has confirmed to me (obviously not to you and some others) that America will be militarily defeated and enslaved.
At any rate, time will tell.

DennisCDiehl said...

The only New Moon doctrine and practice I like is the one which has the Mars size Thea, smashing into the young earth a glancing blow, 4.5 billion years ago give or take a decade, and spewing part of the mantel off into space to congeal into the moon we see today. It's why earth and moon rocks are so similar. It also probably accounts for out 23.5 degree tilt. I worship the moon for this reason when it is full.

Byker Bob said...

Well, you bring this up from time to time as if 1) it actually bothered me (it might have when I was a WCG teenager, believing that it meant that it would preempt my life) and 2) as if the Holy Spirit actually worked that way (He doesn't, but HWA broke away from COG-7, and all the splinters formed because of that same line of thinking).

Alas, someone's got to call you on what you and I both know is your bullshit, because there may be some newbies or weak ones who take you seriously. There are some who are just destined to be fearful followers. Collectors find it easy to scarf them up.

I'm certain that some of the people who author and place the ridiculous ads in The Journal lurk and post here, and there could be some who overdosed on acid back in the '60s as did Sid Barrett, Roky Erickson, Peter Green, or Brian Wilson. We've also had people get prominent amongst us who hear voices, think the CIA and FBI are after them, or have visions of demons flying out of a rupture at the bottom of the ocean under the Bermuda Triangle. And there are those for whom British Israel served as a gateway into horrible racism.

Personally, I'm more concerned about global climate change. Just last week NASA recorded another huge breakoff from an Arctic glacial ice mass. Everyone in the ACOGs wants us to focus on the Armstrong prophecy mold, and wait for the world's clmate situation to be repaired in their millennium. Yet climate change is happening right now, while HWA's prophecies continue to fail. God never had anything to do with HWA/WCG. It was all a scam, and that is something that time has actually told any who listen.


Hoss said...

"We have sent out—absolutely free—millions of magazines and booklets"

So did Sears Roebuck. That's how the old west got toilet paper.

RSK said...

Considering Anon 1031 is quoting USBIP's phrasing almost verbatim, and we already know that book's main premise to be untenable, that doesn't help the "loose marble" effect of said confirmations.

Gerald Bronkar said...

Black Ops Mikey,
You crack me up! You need a stage and a microphone. Indeed, you have a gift.
Can't stop laughing.

Hoss said...

And RCM's post naturally attracted the attention of Bob Thiel, whose 6+ thousand word response included something I hadn't noticed before:

Yes, Dr. Meredith is getting old and will die someday–but God may have kept him alive these past four plus years for him to see that the CCOG is the only COG this century that has had the type of growth he claimed showed God’s blessing.

It reminds me of the claim that HWA was brought back to life (in 1977) to "put the church back on track".

RSK said...

And unlike the self-appointed prophets we see so often, Mikey's prophecy has a 100% chance of being fulfilled, no strained etymologies or desperate calculations needed.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Rod Meredith said, "By contrast, when a spirit of doubt and discouragement is sown among God’s people, often over minor and disputed “technical points” of prophecy or chronology, the “fruit” is not good."

MY COMMENT - WRONG! The "fruit" is actually good. The fruit is the dumb tithe slave sheep waking up and leaving Armstrongism to be free to pursue life, liberty and happiness without having the Church suck the financial life out of them. The booklet, "1975 in Prophecy", and "we have 3 to 5 more years left" stated in 1969 by the Rod of God are not minor and disputed “technical points” of prophecy or chronology.

The Lake of Fire Church of God

Anonymous said...

Byker Bob on February 25, 2017 at 12:12 PM said...“Personally, I'm more concerned about global climate change. Just last week NASA recorded another huge breakoff from an Arctic glacial ice mass. Everyone in the ACOGs wants us to focus on the Armstrong prophecy mold, and wait for the world's clmate situation to be repaired in their millennium. Yet climate change is happening right now, while HWA's prophecies continue to fail. God never had anything to do with HWA/WCG. It was all a scam, and that is something that time has actually told any who listen. ”

People who reject what HWA taught sometimes go on to try to find meaning and purpose in their miserable lives by turning to neo-pagan religions like “man-made global warming,” which they carelessly believe on faith. Perhaps they like the fear element. Also, they get to be sexually immoral while pretending to be good guys and gals who are concerned about “saving the planet.” Furthermore, they get to preach ignorantly at other people and tell them what they are supposed to do about it. The “man-made global warming” scam gives jerks everything they need to act stupid.

Watch CLIMATE HUSTLE – Full movie (1:18:32) at:

Copy and paste this address into your browser.

Anonymous said...

During the nineteen hundreds, it was the 2 million strong Anglican church's official doctrine that the British empire was Gods fulfilment in Genesis's of 'a nation and a company of nations.' Attributing this purely to J H Allen or Herbie is intellectually dishonest. And this was before America became the next super power.
A big, big, big coincidence, no?
All these posters here ignore the obvious, then claim it has been debunked. This is the old 'withdraw from the war and declare victory' thingy.

Anonymous said...

And what's the solution to Rods 'doubt and discouragement?' Why tyranny of course. No one speak their mind. No one question anything the church teaches. Everyone turn off their brains. It's true cause Herb, Rod and the church says so. And forget Gods 'prove all things' command.
Supposedly, this tyranny is the magic elixir to all of mankinds ills.
So when Christ and His gang finally rules, there will be this super tyranny, resulting in the perfect Borg utopia.
Technically, tyranny in the church is a complex, ie a multitude of inter related beliefs and behaviours that feed the central belief of tyranny. If you look it up, a complex is not a good thing.
According to my bible, it's a false idol and the Nicolaitan heresy which Christ hates.

Byker Bob said...

9:16, you are just about as bad as the young earthers! Real deep thinking there! Greenhouse gases are totally measurable scientifically. Glaciers really are undergoing accelerated meltdowns, and there are no residents of small islands who believe that global climate change is junk science. NASA has or had a special site devoted to climate change, although the Trump administration was looking at shutting it down.

Also, as a Christian, I don't fit your stereotypes. I'm not out there getting immoral pussy. I have lived a chaste lifestyle for the past ten years. So disassemble your little strawman there, and use the components to make something with actual value!

If you think that being a good steward of the environment, leaving a small carbon footprint, is acting stupid, then have at it. Biologists are forecasting that 50% of the animal species will not make it into the next century, and the oceans have already been decimated. I think you have been reading too many of Mark Armstrong's editorials. He seems to deal in the same simplistic disinformation that you so eagerly present.


Black Ops Mikey said...

"An obscure person named Richard Brothers who lived in England between 1757 to 1824 is credited with the origination of this farfetched fantasy. He was true to the form of religious fanatics and his movement was strikingly parallel with Joseph Smith and the Mormons. Richards was as eccentric as Smith was ignorant. There is a distinct similarity in the origination of these episodes, a resemblance in the characters of the men, and in the cues to their religious fictions, particularly in the purported saga of the ten tribes of Israel upon which the respective movements were founded. The religious lunacy of these men was about identical in degree, the difference being in the circumstances of Richard Brothers' commitment to an asylum and Joseph Smith to a jail. The dignity which the movement lost by this circumstance in connection with its originator was later regained by one Piazzi Smyth, a Scot astronomer, who evolved the British Israel theory by complicated mathematical calculations in some remote connection with the Great Pyramids upon which he based the claim that the throne of England is the throne of David, and the kings and queens of England Queen Victoria in 1800 and George VI in 1944— are of the royal lineage of David, and the British people, therefore, the real Israel today, which they claim descends not through Judah or the Jews but from the ten tribes. The true Israel, they claim, does not include Jews but are the Anglo Saxons. There are numerous adherents of this theory, in the main Britishers of the Anglican church. In America it was confined to the parts of the country named, Canada and the New England states, until its recent infiltration into the Pacific coast region, which is due to the fact that California in particular is a sort of rallying ground for all of the fanatical sects from everywhere. The Anglo-Israelists have made a significant showing along the coast from Vancouver, B. C., to San Diego, Calif., if their claims are true that they had upwards of fifty thousand adherents in these coast sections.

"Their theoretical views are completely contrary to ethnological history bearing on the origin of the British people and the Anglo-Saxon race, the facts of which the Anglo-Israel authors have the bold audacity to dispute and deny. But their unhistorical claims are no more pretentious than their unscriptural interpretations are presumptuous."

A refutation of a comment which appears to be from nck.

"which is due to the fact that California in particular is a sort of rallying ground for all of the fanatical sects from everywhere"

Which is obvious considering the Democrats.

Some of us have NOT given up the war on British Israelism and we certainly haven't declared victory, although the Anglo Israelite proponents are clearly losers.

Anyway, as proved elsewhere, British Israelism is all about the money.

RSK said...

Not particularly. Maybe you should read the full evolution of BI literature over the time period you cite. "Our Israelitish Origin", for example. Allen (and later HWA) represent an exported version of the concept.

Retired Prof said...

9:16, Byker Bob is right that you sound like a young-earth creationist. You assume those of us "who reject what HWA taught" lead "miserable lives" in which we "try to find meaning and purpose" through sexual immorality and environmental activism, so that we can justify what you seem to think is our main goal: "to act stupid." Very much the same point of view espoused by Ken Ham, of *Answers in Genesis.*

It is odd that you claim to know, entirely without clinical (or for that matter, textual) evidence, why we adopt our positions. Yet you berate us because we "carelessly believe on faith." Hah! As pure an example of projection as one can find. You don't use evidence to arrive at your own conclusions, so you "carelessly believe on faith" that nobody else does either.

Well now, if it is true that opinions based on blind faith are contemptible, then you need to heap scorn on your own.

nck said...

Black Opps,
Are you referring to the 10:46 comment.

I like the comment, yes.
However, I ALWAYS sign my comments, so there's no need to guess.

I don't know about "losers" though.

The "Mitchell" guys I was talking to referred to fracking as "A gift from God." They did not seem to define it as "a technological breakthrough" or in terms of a shift in the energy paradigm, making the USA more autonomous and swing the balance of power back to the USA.


Byker Bob said...

People choose to believe British Israelism because it serves their purposes. For those people, you are just not going to disprove it, until they begin to doubt other of their premises, the premises for which BI is used to give credibility and support. It's all part of what I call their "wall", the insulating border with which they protect their world view. That is generally a combination of truth and error for most people, and some are not even conscious that they have such a wall. Some folks we know have allowed others to construct the wall.

Having a wall is not necessarily a bad thing, but it works most effectively if it is self-constructed, and permeable to allow for adjustment and revision as greater facts and experience accumulate.


Anonymous said...

Anon comments at 5:18 is spot on. The works of the flesh have become far too apparent in the Churches of God. It's not only confined to LCG but is rife amongst the rest of the splinter groups. If you display any fruit of the spirit your quickly outnumbered by the works of the flesh behaviour.

RSK said...

Well, Prof, in order to push their own view, they have to denigrate the other to a ridiculous measure. Like the very tired argument against "grace" that those who accept "grace" must be mostly crazed hedonists, which is not at all realistic.

Anonymous said...

So glad Rod is focusing on the important things at the end of his cold, heartless life.