Monday, August 7, 2017

Is It Profitable To Seek "Wise Counsel" From A COG Minister?

Living Church of God has a little blurb up by Doug Winnail about seeking "wise counsel" from the ministry and others instead of not relying upon your own intuition on some things.

Given the abysmal track record of the ministry of the COG interfering and destroying lives of their members due to their "wise counsel," why would any COG member in this day and age EVER considered a minister telling them what they should or should not be doing?  Most COG ministers are not trained to actually do "wise counselling."  They rely only upon gut feelings, just as the person who is seeking counsel is doing.
CAD Comments - Friday, August 04, 2017

The Value of Counsel

One common pitfall in life is trusting in our own judgment when we only see part of the picture or when we only see what we want to see. When we make decisions or take actions based on how we feel or how we see a situation, the results can be costly for ourselves and for others. This is why Solomon advised in Proverbs 3:5, “lean not on your own understanding,” and in Proverbs 3:7, “Do not be wise in your own eyes,” and again in Proverbs 28:26, “He who trusts in his [or her] own heart is a fool…” Solomon also warned in Proverbs 14:12, “There is a way that seems right to a man [or to a woman], but its end is the way of death.” To help us avoid making serious mistakes in life, God inspired Solomon to write in Proverbs 11:14, “Where there is no counsel, the people fall; but in a multitude of counselors there is safety” and again in Proverbs 15:22, “Without counsel, plans go awry, but in the multitude of counselors they are established.” We can obtain wise counsel from parents, the ministry, and from older, more experienced friends, relatives and associates who can be objective and help us see a bigger picture than we perceive on our own. Seeking wise counsel is a habit we can develop that will help us succeed and avoid making serious mistakes.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail

Of course, there is nothing wrong with seeking wise counsel on different issues and circumstances in life.  People who have the experience or been in similar situations have a multitude of knowledge to share.  Many of the ministry in the Church of God do not.  Their so-called training has come from booklets and sermons, not from spending hundreds of hours taking training on how to be empathetic listeners.  Instead, they lash out with absurd and sometimes dangerous conclusions that members are required to follow, or else they are kicked to the curb.  Truly, is there an LCG minister actually trained by an outside college or institution, in therapy and counseling?


Anonymous said...

We can obtain wise counsel from parents, the ministry, and from older, more experienced friends, relatives and associates who can be objective and help us see a bigger picture than we perceive on our own.

Winnail is such a hypocrite. For years, he did his best to ignore much of the counsel Dr. Meredith gave to him, and he chose to do "his own thing" as much as he could without getting fired.

Even regarding his re-marriage to the woman who divorced him, Winnail ignored nearly unanimous counsel from his family members and from LCG ministers, who urged him not to remarry the woman, who brought with her a wealth of problems and unresolved issues.

Winnail is telling LCG members to obey ministerial counsel, and to trust the experience of friends and relatives who can be more objective and see a bigger picture. Ironically, he is a great example of failing to do so. Why have you not practiced what you preach, Doug?

Dennis Diehl said... is of no actual value. By a book

Hoss said...

I remember a sermonette in which we were encouraged to ask a minister for advice. The level of ministerial micromanaging mentioned was even on such things as what color car to buy.
I also remember, prior to this sermonette, having asked my favored minister for some counseling on career decisions. He excused himself from helping by admitting he was really in no position to offer sound advice and I should ask someone who was familiar with my field.

Anonymous said...

"wise in your own site" perfectly describes 99% of LCG ministers and 75% of LCG members (I was a member for years in Charlotte)

More propaganda and BS from LCG HQs.

It's always "do as I say, not as I do" in LCG.

Byker Bob said...

No. Seeking counsel from such morons is just another form of brown nosing. Forget about brownie points. If you need advice, seek out a bonifide expert on whatever the topic. Always remember, there is no such thing as confidentiality with Armstrongite ministers. Don't ever tell them anything that you don't want blabbed all over kingdom come.


Anonymous said...

Yes, is it important to get counsel from a COG minister, at least you will know what not to do.

James said...

"Is It Profitable To Seek "Wise Counsel" From A COG Minister?"

Ha, ha, ha!

A bunch of intellectual wannabe idiots!

Anonymous said...

The reasoning why is to make members completely compliant and reliant on the Church. Members are encouraged to be mindless sheep and if they resist they are branded as unconverted. Makes me sick to think I wasted 10 years in that disgusting cult.

Anonymous said...

there are certainly times when counseling with a minster would be a good thing.....

but I'm a firm believer in not taking a watch to a plumber for repair...

I remember years ago buying a new vehicle and getting the stink eye from the minister...I assume because I didn't discuss it with him first, but hey, I'm capable of making my own financial decisions...
(I've known quite a few folks through the years, however, that can't make good decisions when it comes to finances)

Anonymous said...

"Wise counsel ' in these churches is just a code word for inviting ministers to micro manage your life. By definition 'counsel' means the right to disagree, but try doing that with a minister. The core of living is looking at a situation first hand (no seeing eye dogs), then. using reason to make ones own decision. This is what's meant in the scientific method of 'you shall know them by their fruits.' This is also inherent in the parable of the talents. Otherwise how can a person turn their one talent into ten talents if one relies of nincompoops who are turning their one talent into two talents.

Connie Schmidt said...

Before consulting a cult leader for counsel, make sure you have LEGAL COUNSEL!

Anonymous said...

Instead of seeking wise counsel, why think at all? If you practice any level of critical thinking, you will start to question the organization you belong to and the God that you believe in. Then you could get your own ideas. DANGEROUS IDEAS. What's more.. Books may be read that either reinforce or challenge your beliefs.

Best to outsource thinking to the professionals. Just have faith that you have the truth, your God is the correct one, and read only church approved literature. New ideas and perspectives can be challenging. Why ask questions when you can be given answers, once a week and 7 Holy Days throughout the year. It practically proves itself. Don't try and disprove that though.

Anonymous said...

11:16 That is exactly what LCG leadership wants. When I was in LCG up until a few years ago, reading anything other than LCG literature was discouraged. We were also admonished not to go digging on the internet and they also were discouraging excessive use of social media. Why do you think they hate this and other websites like this so much? I saw on social media not long after I left one member point something about Banned by HWA out on another member's post and the response was "That website is evil. Do not mention that website so that others don't go digging for it" and then deleted the comment. I feel bad for the members that once pretended to be "my family" and will never wake up to that fact that LCG is in fact a cult.

Anonymous said...

11.16 PM
Exactly. Look at the mess Adam and Eve made with their critical thinking in the garden of Eden.

Anonymous said...

11.44 PM
Even when I attended services in the 1980s, there were several occasions when I was at the receiving end of long looks by my minister or groups of ministers. My crime? Thinking! You see, only the Ambassador College trained big-people have a right to think. According to them, by thinking for myself, I was cheating the ministers of their God given responsibilities. How dare I? What a monster I was.

Anonymous said...

@ 11:44 PM

When I was in LCG up until a few years ago, reading anything other than LCG literature was discouraged.

In my experience, very few LCG members actually read LCG literature. If they do read it, they end up asking questions about the many contradictions and odd things they find, and they eventually either leave or get disfellowshipped.

The problem is that LCG literature contradicts itself again and again. If you are an innocent babe and are trying to understand "the Truth" you will become confused reading LCG's contradictory end-time scenarios and Bible interpretations. Even if you only listen to their sermons online, what Mario Hernandez teaches one week may conflict with what Wyatt Ciesielka teaches the next week. The key to success in LCG is simple. Obey the ministry and don't think too hard.

11:44 said...

Maybe it varies by congregation, but I remember specifically in many sermons the minister, or elder saying things like why would you want to read anything other than LCG literature or don't go digging around on the internet we have the truth and that's all that matters.

Anonymous said...

For years before he did retire, my dad, a North Dakota rancher who followed me into the church, was told by the ministers over the Bismarck church to sell out and move to the big city. If he had, he would have ended up destitute. He did retire at 72 and took quite a bit into retirement, plus selling off his land periodically and carefully husbanding the proceeds. When, he died at 95, there was money in bank deposits for my sister and I to split. If he had listened to those idiots, there would have been less than nothing. I'll leave it to your imagination what designs those guys had.

Allen C. Dexter

Anonymous said...

Comment was made asking: "..Given the abysmal track record of the ministry of the COG interfering and destroying lives of their members due to their "wise counsel," why would any COG member in this day and age EVER considered a minister telling them what they should or should not be doing?..."

Doug believes in another gospel about a Mickey Mouse Millennium where another Jess (a Jesus eho was some god in flesh) reigns on earth for 1,000 years,

Paul has these words for Doug and other xcogs leaders:

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

So, good question! It is best to NOT to xcogs ministry for any further counsel or expect more Junk Food if you do.
And time will tell...time is telling that another spirit drives these leaders away from simplicity (2 Cor 5:19) in the same way or course as the prophets of Baal.

Time will tel...