Tuesday, August 8, 2017

UCG and its leadership problems

Recently at a UCG conference, Vic Kubik made the following comment:
Mr. Kubik showed his appreciation for the spirit of fellowship amongst the elders.
He touched on the reasoning for the recent Church-wide fast and pointed to
the spiritual purpose of fasting: “to humble ourselves before God and draw closer
to Him and to make His purpose our purpose.” Mr. Kubik emphasized that what is
important is that we develop strong relationships among God’s people and that we
are ready to pass on knowledge and the work of the Church to the younger generation
when the time comes. Mr. Kubik also touched on the questions about the
structure and function of Ministerial and Member Services.
If this was actually a practice that UCG wants to see happen, then WHY does it still pad the Council of Elders and other management leadership with men who were part of WCG?  No new younger faces ever appear in any of the updates to the Council.  Just the same tired old men who played with WCG members lives while they plotted and schemed in the background to start a new splinter group.  Most of these men were without ethics or empathy when they were WCG ministers and it is no different now.


Anonymous said...

“If this was actually a practice that UCG wants to see happen, then WHY does it still pad the Council of Elders and other management leadership with men who were part of WCG? No new younger faces ever appear in any of the updates to the Council. Just the same tired old men who played with WCG members lives while they plotted and schemed in the background to start a new splinter group. Most of these men were without ethics or empathy when they were WCG ministers and it is no different now.”

One problem is that those younger types who pester the UCG to “credential” them as ministers are even worse than the old WCG ministers. The godlessness in the UCG knows no bounds!

Byker Bob said...

Well, this could all be centered on some of the weirdness of Pasadena past. NCK, and John England before him have postulated that the original R/WCG was a CIA front, masquerading (and fooling us!) as a religion during the cold war, and that Armstrong's victims, heirs and descendents allowed this to go totally unrealized, inadvertently basing their lives on the misbelief that Armstrongism was actually a legitimate religion.

Unfortunately, this theory is probably rooted in the story of Jack Parsons, one of the very early American Cal Tech rocket scientists, and founders of Jet Propulsion Laboratories and Aerojet International. Parsons was also a devotee to and participant in Thelema, the religious philosophy of English occultist Aleister Crowley. Parsons, who regularly partied with L. Ron Hubbard (Sci-Fi author and founder of Scientology) and lived on "Millionaire's Row" blew himself and his mansion into smithereens in 1952 in an ill-fated laboratory experiment involving mercury fulmonate.

So, some strangely subversive events WERE ongoing in Pasadena, contemporary with the rise of one HWA in the time leading up to World War II, and reaching fruition in the early years of the 1950s. Unlike some of nck's rather cryptic information, the story of Jack Parsons can be learned and verified by reading one comprehensive Wikipedia article. (Google "Jack Parsons, rocket scientist") Parsons' strange, real-life story has no doubt spawned countless Pasadena-based urban legends.


Connie Schmidt said...

There is no escaping a WCG past for virtually everyone in UCG. Lets say there was an inspiring young 40 year old that had management potential. UCG is only 22 years old, so thus , even this person would have spent 18 years in the Worldwide Church of God, including his first 10 under HWA.

nck said...

Oh yes,

Pasadena harbored such interesting figures. I only learned of Jack Parsons from the National Geographic series on space and Crowley we of course extensively discussed from 2000 - 2005 on the ac planet alumni website.

What about the Coven in Bricket Wood?
I don't think there was any relation between the nekkid people and ac.

My theorizing is solely based on day to day workings of the central intelligence projects during the Cold War. One must be a fool to deny any involvement during the Cold War with a "religious leader" meeting more heads of state than the Secretary of State during his term.

The difference between mine and other theorizing is that I believe HWA to have sincerely believed in what he was doing, while others inserted the "orwellian double speak" during his visits that ANY person with an education from a recognized and distinghuished institution would interpret entirely different than the people watching the "behind the work" production at the time.

For instance:
The Unseen Hand: wcg audience---god the father elite audience ----- free trade or the deep state

"unless god intervenes.......": wcg audience ------ we will go to petra elite audience--------the USA is serious on its mutual assured destruction policy

"satan influences the british government to not get the gospel out" ...... wcg audience -----yeah god is opening doors through the pirate stations elite audience --------cia program in mass americanization of the european continent gets a free ride through world tomorrow advertising paid radio stations and it is disrupting our societies

And I could go with thousands more examples. But hey I get censored any time I mention those high honors bestowed on wcg officials from people descending from the Sun - God, The Rice God, Muhammed himself or the titulary heirs to the Kings of Jerusalem claiming descendancy from Jesus himself who ALL bore American or British citizenship aswell.
This goes well beyond Parsons.


Anonymous said...

"Just the same tired old men who played with WCG members lives while they plotted and schemed in the background to start a new splinter group"

This site serves a purpose to point to abusive Church "leadership". But it's constant reference that the WCG ministers "plotted and schemed" to start a new group makes no sense. Tkach and his kids were the ones plotting, scheming and mostly lying about their conspiracy to transform WCG into just another false protestant group. Any WCG minister who was attempting to follow Christ and reform WCG from the Armstrong legacy had no choice than to leave and do it in a way where they could help the members see through the Tkach deception.

It was the Tkach conspiracy that should be condemned.

Anonymous said...

Ron is nuts because he gets his news from the usual liars, those popular fakers of news and fakers of history. Fake news and fake history helps justify his fake prophecy. Here is where he should get it:


Anonymous said...


Those of us working in Pasadena watched as Kubik and others gathered in his apartment in the 360 dorms. Those regular meetings were attended by many of the men in UCG and COGWA leadership positions. They absolutely schemed and plotted how to transition over into a new group with plenty of money to keep their salaries intact as they plotted on how to take members and their tithe money. Mailing lists were taken and letters sent out. If you think the formation of UCG was some random act you are truly deceived. These men had zero ethics as the planned this while still taking a salary from WCG. They were too weak to step out in faith but waited till the money was sitting there.

Anonymous said...

The deceitfulness of the WCG leaders show why the human race is a lost cause. That would go for those under either Herb or Joe, or Joey. Then the UCG took a salary from them while plotting their own rebellion with no faith. More sick leaders proving once again that people have no character even after preaching it for decades and having it preached to them for decades. It was all an outward facade. No amount of preaching can reform a selfish jerk. They merely conform, outwardly, to what looks good and will get them where they want to go. There is no genuine repentance. A huge part of the human race are incorrigible. Progress can only be made if truly good people eradicate the jerk gene permanently. That is not a likely scenario since the jerks have the power and nice guys are too nice to eradicate the scum, and too stupid to see that it must be done--there is no other way.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:04

Those scheming and plotting ministers were being betrayed and lied to by evil and deceiving Tkach family and friends along with the membership. The Tkach's pilfered the Church's wealth and it's membership roles. The Tkach family were the bad guys, not the ministers looking to escape from a new tyranny and Satan's deception.

The Tkach family did serve a purpose to begin to bring down the Armstrong era with all it's faults and non Christ-like culture, so a cleansing could begin. The ones without any ethics at all were the slime from the Tkach group.

Byker Bob said...

Well, and I'm thinking that maybe we should be calling what Bob Thiel is doing "Thielema". LOL!


Dennis Diehl said...

Anon 747. Absolutely correct. On this mishandling of UCG start we agree. They were endeavoring to preserve what thug and theologically ignorant Tkach were doing as they reinvented the wheel

Dennis Diehl said...

Sorry. I meant 1004

Ed said...

The UCG is like any organized religion. It is the United Church of "Men". Men started the UCG as well as any organized religion. There is no God in the UCG. The same can be said of any organized religion. Not any different then any secular club that you can join that is non religious. If you can see that then you will understand why any church has leadership problems.

Byker Bob said...

When conspiracy theories are used to validate and explain everything, proving that Armstrongism is "God's True Church", then conspiracy becomes part of everyone's character. It's a valid reason not to listen to any of these ministers for anything, and to work to root out conspiracy from one's own personality.


Byker Bob said...

So, where, in your opinion are the cleansed, 10:04?


Hoss said...

UCG has never been one of my COGs of interest. For those who like to write, Why don't these guys get real jobs? my thought would be, Who would hire them?
But after reading 1004, I could think of some corrupt outfits that could possibly use their scheming skills.

Anonymous said...

10.51 AM
I don't agree with your assessment. There are laws of nature. The 'evil deceiving' Tkach brought consistency into the church. Herbs WCG was built on sand. It embraced tyranny, rejected self responsibility (still true today) with church crazies protected by the ministry. The result? Loss of its wealth and what little truth it had. Tkach was natures agent, the effect.
There has been no cleansing since the resulting splinters are Herb mini-mes.
Summarizing, if you play, you pay.
Don't build your house on a foundation of sand folks, or you will be Tkached.

Anonymous said...

NO2HWA, your assessment is not altogether correct. Although this may be the case in some areas where UCG groups exist, it is not the case with the one I attend. The focus I have seen, has been on getting younger men to speak, and quite frequently. These are men I have spoken with personally, and I know after being around them even outside of church; they do not hold a lot of the old Worldwidish views. Especially the authoritative hammer fisted views, which we see common among the last of the Mohicans. I have only recently been attending the last two years, and was skeptical at first, and I still keep my eyes open for any funny business. None yet that I've seen. Just wanted to add that bit.

NO2HWA said...

7:43 I was mainly referring to the Council of Elders and leadership in Cincinnati. I hope it is true that they do not hold the hard line hammer fists of the past. The problem is that so many of them have been trained by men who have welded the hard fists against the members in the past. I would seriously keep your eyes open as you mentioned.

Byker Bob said...

Good advice, Gary. Ministers who are graduates of Ambassador (and who were trained to be zero tolerance types) have traditionally been the ones who are most sought after, and the ones who are looked to and regarded as tone setters in various of the splinters.

Also, it might be helpful if 7:43 were to define "younger men". I believe that some of the final graduates of Herbert Armstrong's Ambassador College would be in their 50s today. Class of '85, graduates at 22-23 would be what? 55? So, are we talking about them, or about younger guys in their 20s and 30s from local areas who came up through Spokesmans' Club (assuming there still are such clubs)?

There is another phenomenon in Armstrongism. Having the "proper attitude" has always involved overlooking or excusing pastoral abuse and vigorously defending your church against any such allegations. I'm not saying necessarily that that is what 7:43 is doing here, but just noting that that has been the general rule for most members who would like to remain in the church.

Still, there always were variable conditions amongst the different congregations in the field. Some got a pass on the abuse.


Anonymous said...

"Develop strong relationships among Gods people."
Every minister I know who used such expressions was a wolf, and not necessarily in sheeps clothing. After all, what could his members do? 'Relationships among God people' is a code expression for the church crazies having victims. It's the fox talking to the chickens, the wolf talking to the lambs.