Saturday, December 1, 2018

Taking a Break From the Mere 85 Years Of Wild World of God Antics and Mistaken Views




If there is any topic the Churches of God never understood and still either don't or refuse to acknowledge, it is the concept of Deep Time.  It is beyond ludicrous to believe that humans are the center of all things.  Sure, the Bible starts with a wiz bang creation of seven days which never actually happened and by chapter four,the first humans have screwed up and the four of them, Adam, Eve, Seth and Cain are left to go out and be fruitful and all that.  By the end of the Chapter 9, all flesh but a few worth souls have been eradicated by the flood and by Chapter 11 the crazy humans are at it again and have to be confused of language and sent on their ways. Critcal Scholarship considers the first 11 Chapters of Genesis to be pure mythology.  By Chapter 12 Abraham shows up and the rest is Bible "history".   All this takes place over a  few thousand years and then we get a couple thousand years of very confusing and suspect Church History to this day.

Laying aside the fairy tale of the time between "In the Beginning" and the Earth becoming tohu and bohu-ish, that pretty much sums it up.  Scientifically humans have been around .ooo4 % of all the time our one lone sun and solar system have existed. Biblically, humans have been around almost 100% of Bible Time Creation.  This of course is insane.

Now I realize that few if any here will even bother to consider the concept of Deep Time, which is reality and the folly of Bible Time as it relates to the entire human experience.  Some will scream "What does this have to do with anything!" or "Why do you bother bringing this up at all.  Or as a few have begged, "Please go start your own Blog and leave us alone." I can also hear, "I thought you gave up contributing?"   To that I simply say I change my mind from time to time. Portland Winters are cold, rainy and since I go to work in the dark, work in the dark and come home in the dark, my mind is not right  :)

And too....Understand that anything I contribute along the way is not meant to convince or change minds.  It is merely to let those who have stepped out of Church of God boxes to know they are not alone and there be few, I suppose, who actually fit into this category.  

In talking to a close friend still involved in the Churches of God, I am assured that any number of members have joined the Earth is really flat believers.  That's about as pathetic as it gets but I am also assured that conspiracy theories and Republican Politics have infected many of the Churches and Donald Trump can do no wrong. The man is to politics and the fascinating reality of personality disorders as Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel  and Ron Weinland are to Religion.   Moving right along....  I thank myself everyday to be out of that mess and actually enjoying what I do now.

Three personal favorites.  14.5 Billion Year old Chondrite (Stoney) meteorites that spent most of their time orbiting in the Asteroid Belt between Mars and Jupiter but now are MINE!  lol.  They are the oldest thing a human being can touch and existed before or as the earth formed and before Thea crashed obliquely into the Earth giving us our tilt and whose debris coalesced into our moon. These existed before any life arouse on the planet.  The one in the middle was a $20 find in a rock shop where the owner had taken it in from an estate sale not actually knowing what it was. When I spotted it, I invested the $20 and took it to be Certified.  It now has a history of being another 14.5 Billion Year Old Meteorite from a NW Africa Fall and revalued at $800.  So, yes, I have actually found a meteorite...on a kiddies rock shelf in Portland.

A small  piece of a much larger Iron/Nickel Meteorite , also one of my babies, from the core of a shattered asteroid. The polishing of both pieces was a mental health week project. Also a remnant of Deep time at 4.5 Billion.  Of course the Universe we inhabit comes in at 14.5 Billion but that's even deeper time. 

Anyway, Deep Time should give us pause and humble even the most twice blessed, "And yes brethren, I am an Apostle" or "Presiding Evangelists" who posture their shallow understanding  about everything in the Splits, Schisms, Splinters and Slivers still around from the Wildworld of God days. 

I'll save the 15 Million year old  5" Megaladon  Teeth for another annoying reminder of geological and paleontological realities as compared to Biblical  mythologies  taken way literally to be the actual explanation of Origins and Deep Time.

Those views belonged to the Dark and Middle Ages.








29 comments:

Byker Bob said...

This “taking a break from Armstrongism” dovetails nicely with an experience I just created, but would have been off topic from all the other posts. I’ve been on a permanent break from Armstrongism since 1975, aside from my occasional light participation here.

So this is now, a slice of life from Dec. 1, 2018. I was out doing some banking and running some other errands in my old ‘57, and decided to stop in a Walgreens on the way home to pick up a gourmet lunch of a can of Budweiser and a jumbo bag of Wonderful Natural Raw Pistachios. Lot of people out today, and there’s a line at the counter in the front of the store. I blew them away with one word. We’re talking orgasmic laughter here!

The associate, while handing me my receipt, says: “By the way, you have built up a special discount on your Rewards card, and you have up to the 10th of December to use it. It has to be used on serious merchandise, though, not on fun things like cigarettes, and alcohol, and one more fun thing that I can’t seem to remember just now.”

Without batting an eye, I suddenly replied “Condoms?”

I am almost certain that at least one of the ladies waiting in line peed in her pants laughing!

BB

Allen Dexter said...

Good to read another posting of yours. I'm not commenting as much either, but I still check this site at least once a day. I think you mean 1.5 million instead of 15 million for that tooth,

Anonymous said...

what does any of what you said have to do with the here and now. Why do atheist get so anal retentive just because someone has different religious views or political ideology? This much is certain, you don't get to tell anybody what to think! You can never force your beliefs on me.

TLA said...

Portland, Oregon - isn't that where many of the crazies have ended up? LOL
Loved my visits there years ago - how is Powell's Bookstore doing?
I believe we are limited by our human comprehension to the exact nature of time - Einstein showed it is variable in our visible universe. Outside of the 4 dimensions - does it even exist in any way we can experience it?
I think the limiting factors of the COGs is being 100% certain of things we cannot be certain about and only focusing on parts of the Bible.
I would like to see them explain DNA in terms of human history and also with British Israeliteism.
They are fond of covering the explainable - these 2 are being avoided like the plague.
"Science does not contradict the Bible" - then explain how DNA shows our origins being over 100,000 years ago and why Jewish DNA is not more recently linked to Anglo-Saxon about 3,900 years ago.
It appears the Bible history starts with Abraham and the Jews and Arabs DNA links from the time period we expect.
The DNA looks like it proves the 2 main lines from Abraham and debunks Man being created 6,000 years ago. Maybe Adam was - but then he was not the first man.

Anonymous said...

The flat earthers are no kookier than the big bangers.

DennisCDiehl said...

You said: " Anonymous said...
what does any of what you said have to do with the here and now. Why do atheist get so anal retentive just because someone has different religious views or political ideology? This much is certain, you don't get to tell anybody what to think! You can never force your beliefs on me."


But I said in the actual context that you obviously missed or never read to begin with because I knew it would be said by someone....

"And too....Understand that anything I contribute along the way is not meant to convince or change minds. It is merely to let those who have stepped out of Church of God boxes to know they are not alone and there be few, I suppose, who actually fit into this category."

DennisCDiehl said...

TLA, I was at Powell's a few weeks back. Great Bookstore!

DennisCDiehl said...

Alan, all Meg teeth are between 2.6 and 26 Million years old. This is how long they existed and when

Anonymous said...

If you keep wallowing in the ancient past you're going to miss your present & possibly future life.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
If you keep wallowing in the ancient past you're going to miss your present & possibly future life.

Unlike wallowing in the religious views, mistaken notions, crazies and regrets, the study of actual origins of the world we find ourselves in informs my present, makes me feel amazed at the process and the uniqueness of each conscious human being who has the mind and heart to examine it all. Then my future thoughts will be happier as well.

Faith is belief without evidence and that's not good enough these days and in excusable actually.

Besides, soon enough we'll be back to someone reminding us of our poor , yet at the time, decisions no one could have talked you out of. It is the hindsight and outcomes of those false hopes and beliefs that I think one has to ask "and how does this serve me" now.

I can ask that of cosmology, paleontology and geology and say, "It serveth me well both now and into the future.

FFS said...

BB, your comment was hilarious! Dennis, like I said in previous comments, time means nothing to God, and I do believe God used "evolution" to create was science has proven. The "one day is as a thousand years..." thing. Those two videos seem to follow right along with the "6 day" creation thing. First this was done, then that was done, etc. As I have said before, you cannot put God in a box. His thoughts are far superior than ours. I follow a guy on instagram who photographs microscopic life. It's fascinating. The smallest of the small is infinite, the biggest of the big is infinite. God can use any method He chooses and as long as He chooses to create things. The Bible is not God. God is God. When He chooses to reveal to us how huge His power and His love is, it will astound us as to how puny we all are in comparison. There is so much Jesus wanted to tell his desciples but couldn't, because they wouldn't be able to comprehend it. We can't either. Thank you for your contribution.

Joyce Rutter said...

Thanks, Dennis, for another thoughtful essay. I always enjoy what you post.

Allen Dexter said...

Why do atheist get so anal retentive just because someone has different religious views or political ideology?"

Because we see the earth being destroyed and ourselves and our progeny in danger of extinction. No fucking imaginary god is going to do a damn thing to prevent it. Dream on your theological idiocy. You're as helpless as those concentration camp inmates in World War II who prayed their hearts out.

Questeruk said...

Hi Dennis,

Nice to see you are still contributing here from time to time.

I would like to let you know that there are people attending COG groups that acknowledge the Universe is billions of years old, that the earth is not flat, believe very few conspiracy theories, and think the Donald Trump does very little right!




Anonymous said...

10:17 PM, Paranoid much? But yeah those Jews got what they deserved. I think you need to be on medication.

Anonymous said...

By merely looking at the evidence in the geological record it is hard to refute the fact that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. The geological record also seems to support the theory of evolution as an explanation of why there is life on earth including humans. Which raises the question, "is there a God?" . I know even questioning the existence of God is a no-no in many fundamentalist religions but isn't that the most important question each individual can ask and try to reason out in their own minds. Armstrongism has stifled thought by its own members on the most important questions we can ask as humans. Why is D. D. and others attacked for raising these questions on this blog? These are important questions for all humans to ask.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't call my ophthalmologist and ask, "Hey Doc, how do you change a water pump on my pick up truck." Why do people go to theologians to ask, "Hey Pastor, how old is the earth?" Scripture says that God created the heavens and the earth. He didn't explain how or when. Let's leave that for the scientific community. Perhaps God didn't tell us because, as we say in the Army regarding access to classified information, we don't have a "need to know."

Byker Bob said...

In order to proclaim that your group is God’s only conduit of truth to mankind today, and to claim His authority, it necessitates fakery. Such a group must pretend to have all the answers, must fake the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and must teach that they understand prophecy, even to the point of guessing dates.

The fruits of all this eventually become self-condemning. The fakery of Armstrongism actually invalidated them as a group decades ago. They posit that picking, choosing, and keeping certain laws gives them an understanding of prophecy that nobody else has. Since the prophecies, their timeline, and their guesses as to who is Israel have all failed abysimally, it means they’ve also guessed wrongly in picking, choosing, and obeying their set of law. Both types of understanding work hand in hand. They stand or fall together.

BB

Connie Schmidt said...

Dennis, Im curious to know your thoughts about "free will". If one assumes a naturalistic explanation for everything, then all activity is simply a matter of cause and effect. This post , in essence, was determined and predestined to be written at the moment of the "big bang".

Some argue that the perception of having a "free will" is just merely an illusion. This runs very contrary to me, as having a free will is simply "self evident" is it not? Also , if there is no free will, then there is no right or wrong, and everything that has happened , or will happen , is just a matter of "what must be" and again preordained. .... Including all the Armstrongism and the like that we discuss on this page!

TLA said...

If you don’t believe in free will then there is no good and evil.
Personally I believe the current research shows far more evidence of intelligent design than evolution.
Life is still a mystery - how did it all begin. I am glad it did.

RSK said...

Heh, my wife bought me a Powells jacket sometime back. I usually wear it at work since the studios are often cold. The last time we were there she got lost inside. :)

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Byker Bob said...

Some hoody type teenagers approached an old Rabbi, according to legend, somewhere in Brooklyn during the 1950s. The ringleader initiates a conversation, “Rabbi, you’re supposed to be so wise, let me ask you a question. I have a baby bird in my fist here. Can you tell me if it’s dead or alive?”

The Rabbi smiles, and says, “Son, that’s entirely up to you!”

To me, that most likely apocryphal story pretty much answers the question of free will. Free will exists. However, in actual practice, free will is often limited by various factors over which we have no control. Some have more limitations than others upon them, usually playing out along the lines of socio-economic status, personal intelligence, and the freedoms allowed by the greater system in which they live.

If you desire to have more free will, it’s best to conduct your life in such a way that limitations are not imposed upon you. Get in sync, and be known as part of the solution as opposed to part of the problem.

BB

TLA said...

The anons: it is possible to believe both presidents are a mixture of good and bad.

Dennis - WCG is just one small group out of billions of people - many of whom firmly believe in their deity - and some kill on his behalf. People like Elon Musk believe we need to start populating other planets and moons to ensure our survival - but as the expression goes - wherever you go, there you are.
As far as education goes, one area the USA lags far behind is school education because of the lack of standard testing at the end of the final year. It boggles the mind of people brought up in other westernized countries that someone could pass high school and still be unable to read.
Your first video covered basic early high school biology where I come from - what is covered in the USA or does it vary by school district?
I would like to see DNA being taken from everyone and a world map of DNA origins.

I think the COG leaders are scared to pursue DNA evidence because any significant doctrinal change would lose most of their members - one of the penalties of the Joeys grab for riches plus their overall untrustworthiness. COG members in general will not tolerate "new truth" after the lies from the Joey clan and friends.
Plus the COGs have followed a narrow part of the Bible so long, it is probably too hard for them to admit they are ignorant.

One teacher I met said I was on a spiritual journey - and that seems like an accurate description - and I am enjoying the process so far.

TLA said...

Here is another strange one for you Dennis:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/briankoberlein/2018/07/16/could-the-present-ever-change-the-past/#17e3395c1ed1

Quantum experiment - quantum theory is weird, exciting, and interesting.
If you want a good read, get "Life on the Edge: The Coming of Age of Quantum Biology".

Jeff Davis said...

I think its just a typo but the rocks would only be 4.6ish billion years old, likely forged from the remnants of the 2nd generation solar nova that formed the rest of the solar system.

There weren't any rocks 14.5 billion years ago, just really hot hydrogen, helium and lithium. So hot we can still see the glow.

Dennis Diehl said...

Connie, I have looked at both sides of the free will debate. Each has interesting views but I'm not qualified to say more than " seems to me...". I always did feel though that "prophecy" seemed to run us of it as it all seemed planned out and the predestination theology of my youth was even more confounding. Huge topic. I did watch an experiment that implied our brain knows up to six seconds before we consciously act what we are going to choose or do. Hmmm...so maybe there is a Conceiver who is a Deceiver messing with my Receiver and making me think I am the Perceiver

Dennis Diehl said...

14.5 billion is the ago of our universe from the start. The 4.5 billion year old meteorites are from our solar system. There are older rocks in older solar systems that formed around older stars out there. All iron, gold, platinum comes from the cores of exploding starsforming in the final minutes before exploding. That's ultimately where your gold ring came from and your iron frying pan

TLA said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIANk7zQ05w
Depressing if you believe it.
It is only opinions - Does Carl Sagan debunk intelligent design with proofs?
I have found opinions so far - no proofs.
Will keep looking....