Gavin posted this on his blog today. This is a Church of God International web cast with Wes White.
Go to minute 17:00 and listen to his comments about the dissident blogs and web sites.
The views of Wes compared to Rod Meredith's rant about this blog several months ago is light years apart in understanding. What Meredith did was actually drive more LCG members to this site than we had ever had, where they found they had a voice that could be heard.
Wes is correct in his view that if the Internet had been around in the early years of the church we would not have had the abuse that we went through.
18 comments:
Wes,
Don't worry about Gary or myself cursing you. God curses those who follow false prophets.
I appreciate Wes' and companies observations and openness. Good stuff and way out of the box for the COG.
However, I want to see the next show be hosted, with open debate and discussion between Buckaroo Bob and Jelly.
You are a watchdog sent by Gauwd, NO2HWA!
Anyway, their attitude is much better than what I've seen in the past.
DBP
Hmmm,
Diary excerpt from German Priest 1535:
"This morning I had this Luther guy hammering some kind of cable on the church door."
"No harm done, don't know what this will amount to in the future."
"Nope, those guys out there with Luther don't seem to like the Passion plays very much..."
At min 23 is that Byker Bob doing a flyby? Or is it just the bikeman of the apocalypse?
Breaking News
N2hwa probably..... not from the devil but likely the "rod in mine hand"..
nck
So, Wes (and Yes-man and Yes-woman), you welcome our comments and participation, eh?
Okay, then.
"Herbert Armstrong was liar and a con man who invented a whole set of false beliefs, by which he duped thousands of people into giving him a great deal of money. He used that money to live luxuriously while pretending to be a great religious leader. That was a damnable deception that destroyed -- DESTROYED -- many, many lives. Any group which acknowledges that man as a source, and still teaches, in some way, what he did, ought to STOP."
You people should spend your time and resources on something else. You have the freedom to speak, but what you are speaking owes to a man I believe was a CRIMINAL. The admittedly lighter, more tolerant, jovial tone (a liquor license joke?) doesn't change what I just said.
We are supposed to believe that God is straightening out his church through web-sites like this. So after 4 or 5 decades of corruption and even criminal activity by many at the very head of his church God is finally cleaning it up using this form of communication. The point is missed that Armstrongism at its formation was corrupt. Why, if the WCG was "of God" did he allow it to be corrupt for 4 or 5 decades before doing anything to clean it up? The only conclusion that I and many can come to is that God did not start the WCG. It is simply just another human institution started by corrupt individuals.
Loved the little rude snark to the woman moment of "Can I get back to the topic of the website!??" at 17:28. Perhaps they had a chat about that moment in the car on the way home.
To me, this embracing of , most likely BannedHWA primarily" is an admission that scrutiny without fear, blind belief in the unbelievable or fake respect for the unrespectable is here to stay and the Church had better know this.
You have to "welcome" criticism you are going to get no matter what you want or don't want to hear. It's a case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer perhaps.
I wonder if they'd like to have a Bible chat with me on their show about the Birth Narratives of Jesus since he spent some time on when Jesus was "really" born etc on their show? I can think of lots of topics of interest in a Church of God setting and mindset. I bet he'd not welcome that as much as he "welcomes" BannedHWA. :)
Dennis writes: ' I bet he'd not welcome that as much as he "welcomes" BannedHWA. :)'
Wes reaching out is a Trojan horse. One hand is reaching out while the other grasps a dagger.
"...I bet he'd not welcome that as he "welcomes" BannedHWA."
Wouldn't that be like the pope asking for the devil's input?
LOL
DBP
nck: Buckaroo Bob is the CGI's puppet, like UCG has Jelly. At minute 23, the guys were saying that the anti-COG blogs hate their kiddie puppet.
How many members does CGI have? It's the big, stinky dead fish that attract the most outrage. CGI is at best an anchovie.
Meredith, Pack, Flurry, and others hate the dissident blogs because they realize that the news items presented holds them ethically accountable for their financial patterns and leadership style. They also have to know that many of the entries call into question the doctrinal approaches and beliefs of Armstrongism, and that if members begin to question such key beliefs as British Israel, they may begin to investigate other beliefs more fully, and end up leaving and taking their tithes with them. It could also be argued that what is shared on the blogs has really done a number on their growth potential.
Recycled Garbage
It takes a lot of time and research and reading between the lines to finally see that the Church of God International is based on British Israelism, even though they don't seem to explicitly mention it. Oh no, it's just the European Union and the end times, Revelation, Daniel and all the very same utter rubbish started by Herbert Armstrong based on British Israelism. Wikipedia has this to say:
"British Israelism
"CGI asserts a belief in British Israelism. This belief is not used to assert racial or ethnic superiority, but solely to interpret End Time prophecies which are believed to be directed at the United States and Europe."
They've time to hide it.
CGI was formed by GTA when he was disfellowshipped because of his adultery. CGI had to oust him as well. No one seems to be bothered by the fact that CGI was founded by a false prophet, the son of a false prophet, an alcoholic boozer, womanizer and gambler. Just because they threw him out is no sign at all that he hasn't left a significant footprint.
Wes White can be an apologist all he wants to, petitioning for a 'kinder and gentler' Armstrongism (whatever that means), but after all that is said and done, as long as it is tapped into British Israelism it will spout false prophecies and, more to the point, will be anti science.
You can appreciate his comments all you want, but in the end, Armstrongism needs to be scrapped because there isn't really one shred of truth in it and furthermore there cannot be any redemption.
So get rid of British Israelism, get rid of prophecy and, for heaven's sake, start a program to wean your boozing alcoholics off of alcohol -- and to that end, you might think about aborting plans for the Feast of Tabernacles which provides ample opportunity for the boozing alcoholics not just to indulge themselves but socialize and spread the disease among those not yet afflicted by it.
Actually, those who have come out of boozing alcoholism often leave Armstrongism, since they no longer have much in common with the rest of their dysfunctional social group.
Fix it or die... but in the meantime, you might actually be responsible for killing others or just leaving them permanently incapacitated with chronic pain and disease with the mounting debt from treatment plunging their whole family into insolvency.
Or you could do the Weininger thing and after you ruin the lives of others, you can go and commit suicide (not unlike Judas).
9:29
Thk you.
I was talking about the background noise though. A bike doing a wheely?
Isaw the childrens video with buckaroo some time ago.
Nck
Wes & Co. may be nice folks, but they fall into the rather bewildering category of "look at us, we finally get to say our piece" folks that has mushroomed since HWA died.
Nothing wrong with getting to say their piece -- people should have always had a voice -- but it's peculiar that, having finally been freed from the authoritarianism of Armstrongism, they choose to use that freedom to promote a kindler, gentler version of...Armstrongism.
Like I said: Nice folks, maybe, but no thanks.
CGI is a very liberal organization. Nice folks for sure, but they'll accept just about anything to keep people coming each week. They think that all of the organizations are part of the Church. Kinda weird considering the things that some organizations teach.
There is very little guidance on biblical issues. They talk a good game, but aren't very good at playing it. This is just another attempt at being likeable and inclusive.
Wesson wife reminded me of Howard Stern with sidekick Robin laughing and making stupid little comments at everything Howard said.
The reason I'll no longer watch Wes White's stupid youtube video are about the same reasons I no longer watch Howard Stern with sidekick Robin after watching them once.
Lack of seriousness and depth.
Lack of lack of crap. (In other words, too much crap.)
Insane starting perspective.
"This is just another attempt at being likeable and inclusive."
Well, yeah.
They do put on a friendly face and a more likeable face in their video effort than is evident in Gerald and Daves videos, but the facade is an attempt to lure more people into Armstrongism.
If they're really so tolerant, why are comments turned off?
Can anyone just walk in off the street to attend a CGI service, or is there a 'process' one must go through first?
The typical Armstrongist gradual brainwashing process was handled very carefully, to maximize it's retention effect.
Does the CGI do anything similar?
Here's Armstrongism's typical brainwashing process-
* Create a slick media presentation designed to get people interested.
* Have a contact modality for interested persons to contact.
* Give such interested persons access to more of the church's media.
* Do NOT (contrary to what the CGI may imply) suggest the mark evaluate dissident opinions and criticism.
* Offer more of the church's media- perhaps something that drives a potential convert deeper into the church's milleu without including potential 'turn-off' materials like BI, how most all other "Christians" are wrong and tithing.
* Offer them special 'councilling' or a special ministerial visit.
* Have the special 'councilling' come from a minister trained in evaluating whether the mark is ripe for recruitment.
* If the mark is ripe for recruitment, invite him or her to attend a service, where members are ready to love-bomb, in order to "set the hook" on the mark.
Their rhetoric sounds impressive, but does anyone know what percentage of Wes and company's church's paid ministers are women, what percentage of their congregants are gay- and if it's ok to use scientific evidence to definitely declare British Israelism dumb, doltish, deficient and disproved among fellow congregants?
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