Friday, July 24, 2020

Gerald Flurry Upset Not All PCG Members Worship His "New Throne of David" Stone



It is well documented here about how Gerald Flurry, in his endless quest to imitate Herbert Armstrong, traipsed off to Oregon and searched the hills of a farm for a rock where God's most perfect human leader had supposedly knelt down and prayer at. Flurry wears the same kind of clothes and pretends he is an apostle just like Herbert Armstrong, his idol. Flurry has even built his own mini-me auditorium to look like Herberts Ambassador Auditorium. His auditorium has Herbert's candelabra and grand piano from Pasadena. On top of that, he has even named his imitation "college" Herbert W Armstrong College. All of those things are just minor details compared to the rock he dug up.

Flurry's god supposedly spoke to him in a dream and told him that Herb's rock was now the new coronation stone that Jesus Christ will come back to and be crowned King of kings upon. Forget the coronation stone that was formally in Westminster Abbey that British Israelites love to claim as Jacob's stone where he dreamed upon and the stone that English Kings and queens have been crowned upon for hundreds of years. COG mythmakers love to claim that it was brought by Jeremiah to the isles when he supposedly traveled there with his daughters.

Flurry has expanded the myths about the real coronation stone and now claims his god has removed its blessing upon that stone and has now blessed the Stone of Herbert as the new stone Jesus will return to.

Flurry has now turned this myth into doctrine and wrote numerous stories for his magazines, did videos on it, and countless magazine articles. Members were expected to take this drivel as god-inspired doctrine just because Flurry claimed his god spoke to him.



The first time Flurry displayed the rock it was next to one of his buildings and made it into a meditation area where people could sit and contemplate the holy rock. Then as his myth-making elevated the stone to new heights of absurdity, it was placed in a glass case resting upon a bed of royal blue velvet where it can be adoringly gazed upon.



But, but all is not well on the cult compound or in PCG as some members have not fallen for this lie and Flurry is NOT happy!  To not fall for it is a direct slap in his face because it proves that some members question his authority to make these kinds of comments and doctrinal directives.

COGNews reports on this:
Gerald Flurry claims the authority to declare that Herbert Armstrong’s ‘prayer rock’ is the new Stone of Destiny and the Throne of David, but for a long time it was actually the Stone of Scone and the coronation stone of British monarchs. 
He writes on page 117 of his book, The New Throne of David 
In the past, when God has given me new revelation, words flowed into my mind and entered my thought process, often leading me to certain scriptures. But with the revelation about the new stone and throne, it was different. This time, I heard a strong voice. It was more powerful. I don’t think anyone else would have heard anything, but I certainly heard it. It really startled me, as I think it would anyone. That was the first time I had ever experienced anything like that.
That voice left me somewhat shaken, but in a good way. As soon as I heard it, I started studying the Bible; I wanted to prove that revelation from God’s Word. After studying, I began to see that Jesus Christ was establishing a new throne, just like that voice had said. I began to find all the scriptures and put them together. You can do the same thing: This book goes through many scriptures that prove this truth. You don’t just have to accept my word for it: You can prove that voice came from God.
I understand why some would question this, if I just heard a voice and didn’t have any proof from the Bible. But when you put all this evidence together, it proves that I really did hear a voice from God! The proof is all laid out in the Bible. You don’t want to follow someone who has simply heard a voice – I certainly don’t! It requires study, prayer and meditation on your part. There are also voices coming from the devil.
Numbers 16 and 17 record a disagreement over who should be in charge in Israel. Without clear government, authority and leadership, you have murmuring and problems; that is human nature. So God instructed Moses to have the leaders of each tribe submit a rod, and then said, “And it shall come to pass that the mans rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you. (Numbers 17:5)
What do you do if there is murmuring against Gods leader? Somehow you have to convince them they are wrong, or they are going to be put in the outer court …
In Mosess day, God warned that those who didnt stop murmuring and rebelling would die (Numbers 17:10). That is what God says to us spiritually. At some point you must stop the murmuring and rebelling, or youre going to die! That is the opposite of the total trust God is building in His people. This is about eternal life and eternal death … Some of Gods people will soon present that throne to Jesus Christ at His Second Coming! How can someone do that if he doesnt really understand these things? 
It is amazing to watch all of these stinking turds that lead various COG's as they make these kinds of statements in order to keep their members in line. None of these abusive men have any qualifications whatsoever to claim that God would punish members for failing to heed their directives.

COGNews has this describing how Flurry is justifying himself to his members and what will happen when they ignore him:
Gerald Flurry admits that there is dissension within the PCG over his declaration that the rock at which Herbert Armstrong prayed for a few days in the 1930s is ‘The New Throne of David’. 
Gerald Flurry has written an article for the July-August 2020 issue of the Royal Vision magazine – a foundational lesson we must learn in order to build up the throne of David. The article includes a correction box, explaining that his level of authority in the church is far above that of the other ministers.
CORRECTION: An article in the July-August 2003 Royal Vision, titled, “Was Peter the Chief Apostle?” stated: “Peter alone is given the ‘keys’ to the kingdom of heaven! Later, the authority to ‘bind’ and ‘loose’ was given to the other apostles as well (see Matthew 18:18), but only Peter was given the ‘keys’ …”
Actually, the authority to bind and loose given to the other apostles was not the same authority given to Peter to bind and loose. Peter, as chief apostle, had the sole authority to make judgments and decisions, or policies, that affected the entire Church. No one else was given that level of authority – to make judgments that amplify God’s law in particular circumstances that would apply to the entire Church.
The context of Matthew 18 shows that other ministers were given authority to bind and loose in order to make judgments, or decisions, regarding people in the Church who were not getting along as they should (see Matthew 18:15-18). These were more “localized” judgments to bind and loose regarding contentions or offenses between brethren, not at all on the same level as the authority given 
The context of Matthew 18 shows that other ministers were given authority to bind and loose in order to make judgments, or decisions, regarding people in the Church who were not getting along as they should (see Matthew 18:15-18). These were more “localized” judgments to bind and loose regarding contentions or offenses between brethren, not at all on the same level as the authority given only to the chief apostle.
This is similar to a declaration by Herbert Armstrong in 1980:

The title, and the keys, passed from chief apostle to chief apostle, from Peter to Peter.
Each chief apostle was the new Peter.
Now I am the chief apostle, and I am the Peter.
Whatever I bind is bound in heaven, and whatever I loose is loosed in heaven.
The Day of Pentecost is now on Sunday. But, since I had made the decision to observe Pentecost on Monday, for years the Day of Pentecost was actually on Monday.
The stuff that these men in the church pass off as truth and doctrine is nothing more than spiritual diarrhea. That includes all of the junk Bob Thiel preaches and the mindless absurdities of Dave Pack.  Never has the Church of God movement has such sick men leading groups as it does today.

Hopefully, it is true some PCG members can see through this stuff and may start to question other things. Restored Church of God members are also starting to wake up. If more people did this there would be no income for these charlatans and their churches would implode.  Great will be that day!


54 comments:

Anonymous said...

Where is Herbert W Armstrong's toilet bowl?


Those who can see ahead could make lots of money!

Anonymous said...

"bind and loose regarding contentious or offenses between brethren.."

In practise this means members are forbidden to defend themselves and fight back against church crazies. These ACOGs don't keep splintering for no reason. And not forgetting, being a "peacemaker" is also another code word for tolerating being eaten alive by church fools rather than respecting others rights.
I can't help notice how the secular world is increasingly imitating Herb world.

Anonymous said...

A deflated poormans version of the stone of Scone.

TLA said...

Back when I used to believe all the WCG stuff, Acts 15 was hard to understand.
Jesus' brother James gave the final decision - not Peter.
There was a weak explanation for this, but it really did not make sense.

Stevoreno said...

So Flurry is hearing voices in his head? Does it make me a prophet since I predicted that years ago? Good thing lil' Stephen will be there to take over Gerald's writing when he goes totally crazy. It's kinda hard typing while wearing a straight jacket

DennisCDiehl said...

"This time, I heard a strong voice. It was more powerful. I don’t think anyone else would have heard anything, but I certainly heard it. It really startled me, as I think it would anyone. That was the first time I had ever experienced anything like that.
That voice left me somewhat shaken, but in a good way....I understand why some would question this, if I just heard a voice and didn’t have any proof from the Bible. But when you put all this evidence together, it proves that I really did hear a voice from God! "
Gerald Flurry, The Philadelphia Church of God

"The Trojan War was directed by hallucinations. And the soldiers who were so directed were not at all like us. They were noble automatons who knew not what they did."

Julian Jaynes, The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind Chapter 3, p. 75

Anonymous said...

Flurry knows himself that this is all a bunch of hogwash & lies. It is all just to build himself up & to try to validate his tyrannical dictatorship. It will fall one day like it did for Ceaucescu.

Unknown said...

I have Herbert's perpetual toilet and I gaze and contemplate on it at least once a day. The voices that I hear are not coming from my head though, but sometimes they are explosive. Send in your holy tithe money so I can go look for a rock to shit on, err, I mean to sit on. By the way, I know the exact location of Jacob's pillar stone, but I need your tithe money so that I can go to Jerusalem to dig it up. It's one third of a mile south of the Dome of the Rock.

Anonymous said...

This reminds me of the Roman Catholic practice of Adoration of the Host. This is where people come and gaze upon the host (body and blood of Jesus). What's next, the Adoration of the Stone? Members can sign up for a period of time to come and adore the stone. He can charge for the privilege and make some money off of this new practice. Fuel money for the Gulfstream.

Anonymous said...

This reminds me of the Roman Catholic practice of Adoration of the Host. This is where people come and gaze upon the host (body and blood of Jesus). What's next, the Adoration of the Stone? Members can sign up for a period of time to come and adore the stone. He can charge for the privilege and make some money off of this new practice. Fuel money for the Gulfstream.

Anonymous said...

I suppose we can all agree that Flurry is a "peter".

He obviously hasn't read (or, understood) ACTS 15.

Tonto said...

FLURRY IS STONED!

WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH said...


"I began to find all the scriptures and put them together. You can do the same thing: This book goes through many scriptures that prove this truth. You don’t just have to accept my word for it: You can prove that voice came from God".

I applied this formula for myself and prayed and meditated about it and this is what I came up with:

Nimrod the hunter against God whose temple as a portal unto the "gods" came to confusion and ruin, seems to be a "key" to understanding just what is going on here.

Gerald Nimrod Flurry has procured the prayer rock for a portal unto his god, with a select few able to participate.

With a bible full of the clashes between Babylon (the city of man) and Jerusalem (the city of God), with even Jerusalem eventually being called Babylon itself, is a subject that presents another "key" to understanding.

Nimrod Flurry has constructed his own confusing city and temple of man with the now missing piece - the prayer rock, being the gateway unto his god.

Someone please tell old widow lady Mabel from Ar-Kansas, that there is no need to hurt her back while trying to lift the presentation stone.

TLA said...

How dare you make light of my prayer rock idol!
I pray to it every day and hear its voice and instruction.
You unbelievers can doubt that this is a magic rock, but it speaks to me every day.

Dennis - I know you are a scoffer - and say the voice are just in my head. You quote Julius Jaynes, but I quote HWA - the Elijah prophesied until I came along and took over the title, along with many others including "That Prophet".

Prayer Rock Preacher

Anonymous said...

What's funniest about the prayer rock business is that old-timers in Oregon know full well that Flurry got conned, and that the real prayer rock is still in place where Herbie bowed down to it.

Hoss said...

Antics like this from PCG is one reason I don't usually bother following them. To quote General Murray in Lawrence of Arabia, "it's a sideshow of a sideshow". And way beyond Sideshow Bob.

Anonymous said...

It's like in a movie. There are limits to how much reality can be distorted. Otherwise the audience feels that what they are watching is fake. Which is why David Pack has horses but no monkeys or giraffes on his doll house compound.

jim said...

Do you happen to have a reference for HWA's loosening/binding statement? I've heard such, but a reference would be good.

Anonymous said...

https://youtu.be/_i8-t5biK10

You rock, rock lol

Anonymous said...

I can't believe this anti-racist false prophet is still alive? Get on with life and get it over with, old timer!


Anonymous said...

The internet is telling you lies. Only believe your church government.

R.L. said...

If the key "stone" has changed, has Gerald Flurry apologized to Queen Elizabeth and former British Prime Minister John Major?

After all, he declared the removal of the "stone of Scone" from Westminster Abbey to Scotland was the biggest blunder of both their lives.

But based on PCG's current teaching, that move doesn't seem to matter anymore, does it?

Anonymous said...

I'm with Jim-10:58 AM: is it possible to get the reference to the "red" remarks HWA made in 1980 about Peter, loosening/binding? Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to Byker Bob or Kevin McMillen? Both were always passionate on these boards. I miss them.

Anonymous said...

Wondering why was HWA praying in the woods in the first place.

It was HWA who invented AC prayer booths and had students for hours in them. Yet he was praying in the open, after exercise at a specific rock?

Is it foolishness to assume he was praying to God the Father. What if he wasn't.

Sweetblood777 said...

When one steps back and observes what all the cogs are stating, it becomes obvious that it boils down to whom has the greater authority.

This is so carnal. Where is the humility of these wannabees? If these had any wisdom at all, they would step back and await Yahweh's intervention. But no, they behave like little children tossing sand at each other. The brethren, seeing all this, would I would hope, cash in their chips and leave the table.

This just goes to show how little true respect they have for the Most High, thus the reasons that they would perish along with the baboons.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Where is Herbert W Armstrong's toilet bowl?


Those who can see a""head"" could make lots of money!

July 24, 2020 at 8:19 PM"


HWA's head, military toilet.

Anonymous said...

Exodus 20:4 !!

Not only did God say not to make an image(translated also "non-entity") but
not to bow to
not to serve it

My question to PCG:
Are you bowing to a rock? . . . ?

Doesn't anyone read the Bible over there...or just Gerald's booklets?!?!!?!?

Anonymous said...

11.00 PM
It's interesting that Biker Bob stopped posting at about the same time that the rioting, err, protesting started.

Anonymous said...

"Now I am the chief apostle, and I am the Peter."

Let me opine on this like the rest. What HWA was stating in 1980 is his version of the widely popular dogma of Apostolic Succession (q.v. Wikipedia). This is an idea that has been developed by a number of denominations to confer autocratic decision making power on their leader and perfection on every word that he says. I don't know that any of these denominations including the WCG can make a remotely good case for why their leader happens to be the beneficiary of Apostolic Succession. Another reason why I don't like denominationalism.

Like the poster, I see no reason why this special authority conferred on Peter would ever be passed on to anyone else. Otherwise, it would be an open door for anyone and everyone who claims to be an Apostolic successor to revise Christianity and "legitimately" depart from the "faith once delivered."

The governor on this power, when given to Peter, seems to be in the wording: "I shall give you the keys of the Kingdom of heavens, and whatever you bind on the earth WILL HAVE BEEN BOUND in the heavens. . ." (David Bentley Hart's translation. Sorry for the HWA-style all caps. I did not take the time to figure out how to use bold face in this little editor.) This would promise inspiration rather than autocracy. But even inspiration can be subverted for autocratic purposes. Some leader will be bright enough to say that the strange idea that he just decreed was already ordained in heaven - he is just the earthly communicator of it.

Keep in mind that whatever "Dugger and Dodd" pretext for Apostolic Succession that Armstrongists might recruit to consecrate HWA in the position of Apostle could easily be extended to Millerite David Koresh who proclaimed himself "The lamb of God" and "the Christ." Did Koresh bind us all to that?

Anonymous said...

This whole veneration of some rock that HWA supposedly prayed on smacks of the Catholics' veneration of what they consider to be sacred objects. The story goes that Constantine's mother decided among three crosses which one belonged to Jesus. The Catholics cut this hunk of wood up and keep pieces of it in various cathedrals around the world as part of their worship practice. So, how is this any different? It is straight up idolatry, both of an inanimate object and by extension of a man, HWA. For all of the COGs condemnation of the Catholics, some of these groups have come to look like them in numerous ways.

Concerned Sister

Anonymous said...

Concerned Sister:

You needn't single out RCs solely. Most Christian groups have used objects in their worship. A statement from the web:

"Objects used in Christian worship vary depending on the denomination. Flags, art supplies, finances, and musical instruments tend to be used in more Evangelical settings. Whereas, the Rosary, prayer beads and liturgical items are used in Catholic or traditional denominations."

For Armstrongists it is annointing oil, living in booths, unleavened bread, foods - you know the list of artifacts.

Nowhere did Flurry say that people were to worship the scone - at least in this post. In this case he cannot be faulted for idolatry. We may fault him in many other ways.

jim said...

So if Herbert believed he could loosen and bind when a sabbath (Pentecost) is, why didn't he tell his adherents he would move the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday so that those that he claims are deceived could now be keeping the sabbath on a correct day?

That would be loving and increase the number of true Christians. Why didn't he do that? Why didn't he say pork was okay? So many physical things he could have done to help sincerely deceived Christians become sincere true Christians. Why doesn't Flurry do this? Then he could draw from many more believers. It seems to show an unloving heart if someone capable of loosening and binding does not do this for those that are simply not doing something correctly related to the physical but seemingly have the spiritual aspects of Christianity.

There is no excuse for this lack of outgoing love.

jim said...

So if Herbert believed he could loosen and bind when a sabbath (Pentecost) is, why didn't he tell his adherents he would move the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday so that those that he claims are deceived could now be keeping the sabbath on a correct day?

That would be loving and increase the number of true Christians. Why didn't he do that? Why didn't he say pork was okay? So many physical things he could have done to help sincerely deceived Christians become sincere true Christians. Why doesn't Flurry do this? Then he could draw from many more believers. It seems to show an unloving heart if someone capable of loosening and binding does not do this for those that are simply not doing something correctly related to the physical but seemingly have the spiritual aspects of Christianity.

There is no excuse for this lack of outgoing love.

Anonymous said...

It would be more honest to chisel Herbs head from the rock, with members bowing down in front of it.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone remember which day Nashville is supposed to be nuked?

nck said...

Byker Bob might be minding the (genetically modified) seeds in his garden that he received from China unsollicited.

Or he is on a roadtrip on the Harley and decided to check in at Hotel California.

Nck

Anonymous said...

While Flurry might not have explicitly told his members to fall down and worship this rock, he has placed it under glass, given it a place of honor, and claimed it to be the rock Jesus Christ will come to at His return. He has also claimed that God told him to do this. While I understand that many religious sects use various objects in their worship, and Flurry's practice may not rise to the level of severing a martyr's head or other body part to put in a place of honor as the Catholics do, the idea is similar. HWA is revered by these people as an apostle, prophet, etc. one could argue to the point of worship, which therefore makes this rock an object of honor in their eyes, and by extension makes Flurry's claim of authority and legitimacy more meaningful to those who have fallen for this ploy. The added claim that God spoke to him in a "strong voice" about the transfer of the "throne" involving this rock that HWA supposedly prayed upon simply adds to the delusion. Jesus Christ doesn't need some rock to establish His throne. He is the rock! He is the Chief cornerstone, upon which the members of His body are built into His temple and dwelling place. Ephesians 2:19-22 He does not need temples made with hands. Acts 7:38-50

Concerned Sister

Anonymous said...

I would also be interested in the specific source for HWA's loosing and binding quote. Sermon, article, letter, etc. Thanks.

Concerned Sister

Anonymous said...

loosen and bind

This refers to halacha, which is an ancient Hebraic concept of interpretation and application of the Law. The Pharisees were in "the seat of Moses", and had the authority to do this, and Jesus was giving the authority to the Disciples. His 'Sermon on the Mount' and other passages contain such interpretations and applications.
In Deuteronomy there is a restriction that commands cannot be removed nor new ones added by anyone. So unless there is a connection to an existing Law, it can't be done. So i is HWA's "Makeup" ruling seen as a "New Command" or is it a strict Halacha of the 7th Commandment (Adultery)? In Hebraic argument it could only be the latter, if at all. Jesus questioned and taught against some of the Halacha of the Pharisees, especially when they involved Oral Law ("Traditions of the Elders").

Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix said...

In "The Good News" of July 1955, Herbert Armstrong explained the principle of binding and loosing with regard to Pentecost and Make-up:
"It was because of inability and incompetency by individuals to know how to COUNT properly that division was caused in the Church at Eugene, Oregon. Pentecost is not a festival God appointed to be kept in private, but an ASSEMBLY day for the CHURCH. Read Acts 2:l. THEY WERE ALL ASSEMBLED WITH ONE ACCORD IN ONE PLACE-and on the SAME DAY. Therefore it is not the prerogative of the individual to figure the day differently than GOD’S CHURCH, and try to pull off members after themselves on a different day, thus introducing DIVISION.
Hereafter, any individuals who refuse to attend on the right and proper day, as set and determined by Gods Headquarters CHURCH, as they are in turn inspired and led by GOD’S SPIRIT, and as BOUND IN HEAVEN, and who stir up contention on that subject among brethren, leave 11s no alternative. They FORCE us, against our will, to MARK THEM, and AVOID THEM, by denying them entrance to God’s services, and forbidding other members to fellowship with them, or discuss the matter in any way with them. Thus PEACE and HARMONY will be preserved among those in a right spirit, even tho the one or two self-willed, carnal-minded, disobedient trouble-makers are infuriated, and turned further into the gall of bitterness and resentment."
"This, then, becomes an issue which FAR transcends the question of make-up. DOES God rule thru His Church? DOES God inspire and lead His apostles and chosen ministers? If the government of God is to break down at this point, then THE GOVERNMENT OF GOD IS DESTROYED IN THIS CHURCH. The life of the Church is at stake. Therefore, steps are being taken promptly to deal with any such personal actions tending to cause division, contrary to the doctrines taught by God‘s Church.
On most doctrines there is no need of a ruling by God’s called and chosen ministers at His Headquarters Church. The Bible is itself plain on whether stealing, lying, murder, or idolatry are sin. But here was a matter on which neither the women nor the men were clear. They were divided. There was no definite “Thus saith the Eternal.” There is a very definite SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLE involved, vital to the salvation of women. Yet many women were unable to see it. God’s ministers finally were forced to step in and DEFINE THE SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLE involved. That is what we have done. There is not a doubt in our minds that we were led of God. The decision is GOD’S decision.
The decision is BOUND in heaven."
**The above excerpts taken from the Herbert W. Armstrong Searchable Library Website

Anonymous said...

@anon 2:34

July 18!

nck said...

Miller 6:15

From a "legal perspective".

a) Was it a decision ON "What was (already) bound in heaven?"

OR

b) Did the ministry decide "UPON WHICH the ruling was bound in heaven, by God?"

The key word is a "RULING", at least in European Administrative Law a and b would be distinct in the sense of scope etcetera etcetera etcetera. I know HWA was not a Dr in Constutional Law at that time, that only "happened" in 1983."

nck

Anonymous said...

Nck & Byker bob = same human.

nck said...

Concerned Sister said:

"For all of the COGs condemnation of the Catholics, some of these groups have come to look like them in numerous ways."

Me thinks that every church that would like to exist for over 2 millenia is going to resemble the catholic church one way or another.

I mean.
It can definitely not be said that the catholich church was fascist, yet catholic priests helped many nazi criminals escape to south america (where they got enlisted by the cia as a side note), it cannot be said that the catholic church is poor, yet it has orders like the franciscans that live without much worldly means or posessions, it cannot be said that it is pagan, yet it built churches on most of the former pagan cult sites etc etc etc

Religion seems, as all life the surviving of the most agile.

nck

Anonymous said...

The ACOG leaders crave the good ol' days. By using gimmicks such as fancy titles, a new coronation stone, or even finding the ark of the covenant, they hope their churches will be flooded with new members. The glory days restored. This, despite their theology that only God can call new people.
John the Baptists counsel to the Roman soldiers is equally applicable to today's splinter leaders, Luke 3:14 "..be content with your pay." That is to say, the glory days are gone forever.

nck said...

July 27 1:11
How would anyone in their right mind come to such a conclusion?
His writings are the very antithesis of my musings, many of which showed advanced maturity, if he wasn't in one of those moods and started chanting the dorothy mantra. Unless you surmize we are Socrates, we cannot be the same, but thanks for the compliment and I'm sorry BB.
nck

Anonymous said...

Apostolic Succession and the principle of Binding and Loosing is very complex and controversial. It is not something that you pull out of your hip pocket when you need to invest an administrative decree with gravitas. Armstrongists should have a detailed doctrinal statement about what it is and evidence supporting why they believe it is applicable to their leaders. The Jewish concept of halakha at the time of Christ seemed to involve application of a number of different existing legal resources rather than the origination of law (I just scanned through some information briefly).

Without some historical foundation or pedigree the integrity of any denomination's implementation of Apostolic Succession can be challenged. For instance, the Church of God Seventh Day (Salem) holds a belief in Apostolic Succession while the Church of God Seventh Day (Denver) seems not to. In any event, it means the chronological procession of bishops or church leaders passed through the Millerite Leadership. This means it could validly have passed down to David Koresh of the Millerite Branch Davidians as well as to HWA (and subsequently to whomever he passed it along to - I am sure that's a big controversy. Did HWA ever say that when he was taught directly by Christ in the Des Moines Public Library that Christ conferred on him Peter's authority? It seems like that might have been important.).

If there is no means of sorting out the succession problem among the many Millerite leaders, then nobody knows what is binding and what is not. Armstrongists could be bound by many decisions made by David Koresh, the lack of observance of which places their salvation in jeopardy, but would not know it until the necessary research is done or until they are resurrected and discover that the regrettably missed the boat.

And for people like me - someone needs to demonstrate for me how there is any Apostolic Succession at all. There is no indication in Christ's statement to Peter than anyone would succeed him and assume his privileges.

Anonymous said...

"I am the chief apostle and I am the Peter"

I remember when "Peter" was a popular euphemism for penis. I'm sure there were a few chuckles over HWA being "the Peter".

Anonymous said...

seems to be no different than a Catholic "relic".

Anonymous said...

The binding/loosening "I am the Peter" remarks are in a meeting with Jeff Booth: hwarmstrong.com, tap "search", enter "chief apostle".

Anonymous said...


“Gerald Flurry claims the authority to declare that Herbert Armstrong’s ‘prayer rock’ is the new Stone of Destiny and the Throne of David, but for a long time it was actually the Stone of Scone and the coronation stone of British monarchs.”


Gerald Flurry claimed to be faithfully following everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught. Then Gerald Flurry went on to make all sorts of major doctrinal changes like this one.

PCG members go along with all the lies and nonsense for different reasons.

Some old sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators are just there for the captive prey. They do not care what Gerald Flurry makes up to satisfy his own perverse desires. They only care about their own perverse desires.

Others go along with all the lies and nonsense because they now feel trapped. Gerald Flurry would have all their family members in the PCG cut off all contact with them if they leave or get kicked out. And, for sure, all their worthless fake friends in the PCG would ditch them in a hurry.

Anonymous said...


“Gerald Flurry claims the authority to declare that Herbert Armstrong’s ‘prayer rock’ is the new Stone of Destiny and the Throne of David, but for a long time it was actually the Stone of Scone and the coronation stone of British monarchs.”


The PCG always claimed that it was holding on faithfully to everything that HWA had taught, but in actual practice the PCG immediately did away with preaching the gospel, which HWA had taught was the “true purpose” and the “very purpose” of the church. That was a HUGE doctrinal change!!!

The PCG also soon went on to teach that Gerald Flurry rather than Jesus Christ was what it called “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18-19. That also was a HUGE doctrinal change!!!

Now the PCG is free to come up with whatever other heretical nonsense it wants to, such as calling Gerald Flurry's stone the new throne stone.

Satan has the PCG cult members exactly where he wants them: trapped in his own satanic imposter cult led by his own satanic false prophet.

Rejecting Satan's apostate Tkaches does not mean that one should fall for Satan's false prophet Gerald Flurry.

jim said...

Thanks Anon 409