There is a new blog up that is holding PCG accountable.
PCG Watch is a site dedicated to analyzing the claims, doctrines and predictions made by Gerald Flurry and the PCG. In order to do this we will also need to analyze many of the doctrines and predictions of Herbert W. Armstrong.
Gerald Flurry and Herbert W. Armstrong have through the years made many specific prophecies—predictions that can be confirmed or falsified. While many members forget these claims, it is our purpose to make you remember and judge for yourself whether they came true. Many other claims, about the history of Christianity, about the origins of doctrines, about the whereabouts of historical peoples, about the nature of ancient prophecies, have been made by Flurry and Armstrong which we will ask you to reconsider in the light of facts and perspectives the PCG and Gerald Flurry—whether by ignorance or by willful deception—do not mention.
The authors of the website believe there is more independent thinking within the PCG than many members may realize. We have received numerous articles from members discussing PCG doctrines in the light of previous Armstrong teachings, biblical scriptures, historical facts, or secular writings—most times this independent thinking is rewarded with a suspension or a disfellowshipment.
We welcome any submissions from members or past-members who believe they have something to say about the accuracy of PCG teachings.
We would also like to encourage responses or rebuttals from PCG authorities, which we will freely post here. One of the defining features of the PCG is that their leaders spend almost no time addressing criticism of their doctrines from the outside, choosing instead to ignore them and hope their members have not heard.
Please check out PCG Watch here.
27 comments:
There's an article on the Trumpet.com site entitled "The lock down disaster." Near the end it reads "It (the bible) also condemns our modern scientific medicine-crazed world in the strongest terms."
To the best of my knowledge, it does no such thing. Why did Christ say that it's the sick who need a doctor and not the healthy, if doctoring is evil? The average life span in America at the beginning of the twentieth century was in the low 50s. Today it is about 83 years. All due to our "scientific, medicine-crazed world."
Btw, HWA used doctors and was using medications.
I am sure if Flurry got sick, he would show his willingness to go to a doctor just like HWA did. He forbid Loma medical treatment for a bowel blockage but had an in house doctor 24/7 after his heart attack plus his secret trip to Romania for his diminished sexual prowess. GTA once talked about his regret after seeing members of the church dying needlessly from easily treatable conditions such appendicitis or pneumonia because of Worldwide's doctrine on medical care at that time.
Have any ACOGs taken up the challenge to defend their Anglo-Israelism from recent DNA refutations?
I say 'bring it on' ACOG know-it-alls, let's have a showdown on this!
I just read the lost century article on the PCG watch blog. My 1972 college text book 'Sociology' by Broom and Selznick does have a few lines stating that a curtain dropped on Christianity around the first century, and when it was raised, a very different Christianity appeared. This is the "lost century" that HWAs church taught. It's a dry text book with no axe to grind.
HWA was a hypocrite for using doctors and using medications and not allowing the members to people like Stephen Loyd Gilbreath still follow that people cannot use doctors.
If Gerald Flurry and Herbert Armstrong have many false prophecies then it should be obvious that they are false prophets because a true prophet would not get the prophecies wrong or makeup stuff like a liar. A lot of the church people do not read stuff outside of the church they also do not know much about science either.
Gerald Flurry wrote an article titled “Why Donald Trump Will Remain America’s President”
Yet last Wednesday, Mr. Trump flew to Florida, and Joe Biden was inaugurated, president. He and other leaders say a bunch of stuff that doesn't come to pass. Since the thing he says does not come about and does not come true, then you know the Lord has not spoken that word. There's an article now that Flurry wrote saying he was wrong.
Herbert Armstrong said," God says If a man tells you what's going to happen wait and see if it doesn't happen he was not speaking the word of God he's speaking out of his own mind you watch and see whether these things happen you see who's speaking to you, my friends." Whether or not there is a God repeated failed prophecies should tell the people in those groups who are speaking to them.
go to a doctor just like HWA did
In a late-1970s member letter, HWA tried to exonerate himself from the "no doctors" teaching. His answer was, if you have weak or no faith then use worldly medical treatments to preserve your life...
recent DNA refutations?
Twenty years ago the same question was asked. There was such a poor grasp of basic genetics they couldn't understand the Jeffersonian lineage through Sally Hemmings (which was an issue at that time).
Does the new blog have Door Dash free delivery?
Hey 2:43
What do you mean secret trip to Rumania.
This was one of the most famous health facilities in the world visited by many dignitaries of the time and the visit was published to the membership in the "Worldwide news" or whatever name that biweekly was called at the time.
nck
Looking forward to watching Apostle Flurry - surrounded by reference books - defending his wacko British-Israelism delusion
"nck said...
Hey 2:43
What do you mean secret trip to Rumania."
You are right that they did publish that he went to the "spa" but what they failed to tell the membership is that he went to try and restore his libido so he could perform husbandly duties to his soon-to-be new bride, Romona.
The WCG never told the full truth about anything, including biblical teachings.
So I wish all Christianity will end I can't see why anyone would believe in the Cog stuff or other churches too other than the fact a lot of members were raised to believe it.
The WCG taught if you went to a doctor that was a lack of faith. They had a theology of not trusting doctors and they instead they were totally relying upon up in prayer for healing. Herbert Armstrong said, " Jesus had a perfect body he was never sick a day in his life he never had an ache or a pain God is your own divine healer, not any man." Mike Feazell said, "Now a lot could be said about that because as Herbert Armstrong got older he used doctors a lot but still continued to teach that it was wrong that didn't help the people who needed doctors." The church taught we should not go to doctors so when Deborah O' Bryan was about five her mom died from what they thought was cancer at the time. So she refused to go to the doctor because of the church's teachings that they should not see doctors.
In his 90s Mr. Armstrong was too ill to go on without medical help and the hypocrite used doctors for himself but did not allow others to use doctors.
They claim Satan is deceiving the whole world but they are the ones spreading false prophecies and saying other false beliefs misleading others to believe it is true like when they indoctrinate their kids to believe in it.
So from my experience, they all claim to be prophets and apostles and when it does not come out true they look like a bunch of jackasses.
They always need that tithe money to spread their bullshit literature.
They seem biblically based to me but they are scientifically illiterate and they never learn anything new other than the church of God stuff like if you show them how British Israelism they don't care.
Most of the teaching is fear-based and has a way of motivating people into submitting to their leadership. I highly suggest you stay away from PCG, RCG, UCG, and all the other cults.
Does anyone have any current links about DNA refuting BI? It seems like a lot of web sites are no longer operational.
Anonymous writes:
“Does anyone have any current links about DNA refuting BI?”
In a similar vein, could anyone reference a peer-reviewed study by a person, or persons, preferably with a PhD in Genetics, refuting BI?
10:35
I guess doctrinally it equalled "a broken bone."
Nck
If you want to see a good refutation of Anglo-Israelism, go to imninalu.net. The Jewish site owner totally destroys the basics of this ridiculous heresy. He also shows the true modern identities of the Gentile nations mentioned in the Bible, that Armstrong & Co. claimed as the lost ten tribes.
imninalu.net writes:
“Prophet Yehezqel (Ezekiel) was one of the exiles of Judah carried to Babylon in the second deportation by King Nebukhadnetzar, about 140 years after the fall of Samaria. He addressed his prophecy to the "House of Israel" in exile (Ezekiel 3:1, throughout the whole book). This means that the Judahites met their former neighbours in roughly the same area or else that the Prophet was sent to the regions were the Northern Israelites were settled: in either situation, it is clear that they did not escape as the Brit-Am fanatics allege, but they were still there, in the land of their exile, within the borders of the Assyrian/Babylonian Empire, since the Prophet was allowed to meet them!”
Isa 8:14 For the Lord can be a sanctuary and he can be a stone for tripping over and a rock for stumbling upon for the two houses of Israel... (John Oswalt translation).
I suggest that the author above, misunderstands the use of the term “House of Israel” and hence the conclusion above is blatantly wrong.
2Ch 12:5 Then came Shemaiah the prophet to Rehoboam, and to the princes of Judah
2Ch 12:6 Whereupon the princes of Israel and the king humbled themselves;
In the time of the divided kingdom there were two separate houses of Israel. In 2 Chronicles, in the above, the term “princes of Judah” and “princes of Israel” are used interchangeably.
Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Lk 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser:
Jesus Christ was technically sent to the southern “House of Israel” which includes some members of the northern tribes.
A modern analogy: the American- and British-born Royalist American colonists who remained loyal to Great Britain and King George moved to other parts of the British Empire as the result of the secession of the thirteen colonies from the British Empire. It is estimated that 46,000, about 1.5% of the US population of 3 million in 1783, moved to Canada.
The author above alleges that the Judahites met their former neighbors in captivity. It appears that he misunderstands the use of the term “House of Israel” in Ezekiel.
Eze 8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month...
Eze 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth
Eze 8:10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about.
Eze 8:11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel
Eze 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark
Eze 8:17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here?
Around five years before Jerusalem was destroyed and King Zedekiah killed, long after the northern “House of Israel” was taken in to captivity, Ezekiel was taken in visions to Jerusalem.
The term “House of Israel” is used three times in chapter 8; with the term “house of Judah” used at the end of the chapter. House of Israel = House of Judah; which is so obviously the case.
Eze 8:1 I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me
Eze 14:1 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
Eze 12:9 Son of man, hath not the house of Israel, the rebellious house, said unto thee, What doest thou?
In Ezekiel the term “House of Israel” is used for (1) the twelve tribes of Israel; (2) for the northern “House of Israel”; (3) for the exiles under King Jehoiachin; and (4) the people in the land under King Zedekiah.
Christianity being different in the first vs second century, because of it evolving into a different movement, is hardly a "lost century". The amount of the stretching words to get there is ridiculous.
Medicines and drugs and the dope as he said in his 1952 booklet Does God HEAL today(emphasis his)
Typical twisted Armstrongite reasoning on display here. You cherry-picked what would back up your wrong premise and ignored everything else. It's obvious that House of Israel and House of Judah are being used to refer to the same group of people. Sadly, your Anglo-Israelism blinds you to what is plain to everybody else. And Abraham, the owner of imninalu.net knows his people better than you do. Please read his article several times over to understand what is being said in it, for I fear the heavy indoctrination you received in the ACOG's may have made it rather difficult to comprehend actual, true historical facts.
Phinnpoy wrote:
“Typical twisted Armstrongite reasoning on display here... It's obvious that House of Israel and House of Judah are being used to refer to the same group of people.”
How is my reply twisted Armstrongite reasoning on display? All I was pointing out that “imninalu” doesn’t understand the use of the term “house of Israel” in Ezekiel. While it is obvious to you and me it doesn’t appear to be so for “imninula”.
Eze 1:3 Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar;
Eze 3:15 Then I came to them of the captivity at Tel-abib, that dwelt by the river of Chebar,
2Ki 17:6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
“innulate” wrote:
“This means that the Judahites met their former neighbours in roughly the same area or else that the Prophet was sent to the regions were the Northern Israelites were settled: in either situation, it is clear that they did not escape as the Brit-Am fanatics allege, but they were still there, in the land of their exile, within the borders of the Assyrian/Babylonian Empire, since the Prophet was allowed to meet them!”
Phinnpoy, did the Judahites meet their former neighbors in captivity? Did Ezekiel travelled to places such as Hahlah to meet them or were the “lost” house in Babylon?
2Ki 17:18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.
2Ch 34:21 "Go and inquire of the LORD for me [Josiah] and for the REMNANT in Israel and Judah about what is written in this book that has been found. (NIV).
2Ki 22:13 Go ye, inquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah [no mention of Israel]...
"innulate" wrote:
“This is an overwhelming scriptural proof that the Northern Israelites were under Judah's rule after the destruction of their Kingdom. Indeed, it was their State that was destroyed, not their people. They had no longer their own kings, but had the kings of Judah as their own sovereigns.”
Phinnpoy, do you believe this as fact?
Isa 7:8b WITHIN SIXTY-FIVE YEARS Ephraim will be too shattered to be a people. (NIV).
Ezr 4:2b ... have been sacrificing to him since the time of Esarhaddon king of Assyria, who brought us here. (NIV).
2Ki 17:18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.
No mention of the sixty-five years by “innulate”.
"The prophet Isaiah had predicted that the process of deportation would take place over a sixty-five year period beginning in 734 B.C. (7:8). This is what happened for the task of moving the people continued from 734 to 669 B.C. The Assyrian king Esarhaddon (681-669 B.C.), grandson of Sargon II, completed the task. This fact can be noted in Ezra 4:2, where the Samaritan population (a mixed race with the Jewish people because of the policy of deportation) attempted to hinder the work of Governor Zerubbabel and High Priest Joshua in rebuilding the temple...
"So sparse did the population become in Israel in those days that the lions began to multiply out of control. This, too, was in accordance with the predicted judgment threatened in Leviticus 26:21-22" (Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., A History of Israel, p.365).
2Ch 30:1 And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel.
After Hezekiah's Passover, there still remained over 40 years of the 65 years of 'shattering' of the northern kingdom to take place; and yet there was still a "remnant" in Israel in Josiah's days [641-609 BC] (2 Chronicles 34:9,21).
There is no need to fear, I don’t believe most of HWA’s theology, such as a Wednesday crucifixion and the reward of the saints is on the earth (I believe in Friday and heaven).
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