Why has the Church of God, and in this case, the Living Church of God, always used the epitaph of "you have a bad attitude" to shut down members? Rod Meredith and others in Pasadena were notorious for doing that. One would think after all that has transpired and the grievances COG members have talked about during and after the changes that COG leaders would learn to be more compassionate. Apparently, that is not the case in 2021.
A comment from an LCG member in response to LCG: Keeping Track Of Troublemakers?
As is the case in LCG, their reasons here are to cover what they really do and their internal attitudes not for the public. Just for one instance, I had been travelling for some weeks away from my home congregation, being with family elsewhere and working through the passings of several loved ones far away. When I got back weeks later and showed up at church, it had been already concluded that I had left the church. They were suspicious of me because I hadn't showed up in my home LCG congregation for just two weeks, and so that was that. Did they reach out to me with genuine outgoing concern, or even just to casually find out where I had gotten to? No. they were skeptical of me rather than reaching out to at least offer a safe place to worship and to grieve. Their ranking deaconess who just loves the attention and praise of the ministers got it in her mind that I was out of the church, and so they believed her, and Iwas "on probation" since that time. Try as I might I could not snap them out of it, and I was accused by the ministers, who never even spoke to me directly, of trying to cover up a "bad attitude" on my part. No, no bad attitude, whatever that means. I was actually one of their more loyal and knowledgeable members, and I was travelling and spending time with loved ones. that's all. But of course they were right, the deaconess said so, and God is inspiring and leading his true ministers because he is the head of his church, so logically how could it be otherwise. For those of us who believe (broadly speaking) in the teachings from Mr. Armstrong, it is impossible for me at least to recommend LCG to others as a Jesus-centered church which holds to the truths. Its leadership has contorted it into an insidious corperation with the veneer of some things familiar to us, not as blatant as Dave Pack but in ways actually worse, and in which suck-ups and players like this deaconess damage and even destroy the faith of the lay people. In 1987 at a Feast Of Tabernacles a Mr. Wainwright gave a sermon entitled The God Of The Barbecue, in which he preached against this climbers' mentality just like this deaconess. A few years ago one from our congregation slipped her a copy of that sermon as a nudge. Well, it didn't do any good. It is easy enough to superimpose a veneer of religious duties on one's lifestyle, change their day of worship, stop eating certain meats and so forth. This is all well and good inasmuch as it should be done and as far as it goes. But, I wonder how many people, like these insidious ministers in LCG and the high-strung deaconess have really and truly begun their inner spiritual journey, let alone understanding true conversion. When LCG's stats policy began to be enforced I did challenge the elder on the real reasons for why they were more aggressively and thoroughly taking down notes like this, and he did acknowledge that it was to keep tabs on members.
13 comments:
LCG likes to control people and act like idiots. A person refuted Wallace smith video about why intelligent design isn't science you should post it on here to help expose the foolish LCG cult.
Send me the link, or did I miss it here?
I don't believe the poster tbh. Weston has openly written about allowing members to stay at home instead of attending Sabbath services, if they have issues or need to isolate because of the Pandemic. Weston himself has been in isolation because of his wife. So what gives.
Weston has openly written about allowing members to stay at home instead of attending Sabbath services, if they have issues or need to isolate because of the Pandemic.
If you were a real member, and not an apologist from LCG HQ, you would know that Weston has in recent weeks been "backpedaling" on his earlier stay-at-home laxity. It was popular with lay members, but it was very unpopular with local leaders who didn't have as many members coming to be controlled every Sabbath. There are good local leaders and bad ones. The problem LCG has is that the LCG culture requires that local leaders will always be favored and believed over the local members. That's how Dave Pack got his footing in Global, as Rod Meredith kept supporting Dave even while hundreds of Global members left Rod's church because of Dave's abuses. Rod just couldn't bring himself to challenge Dave until Dave challenged Rod.
Anon. said: "Weston has openly written about allowing members to stay at home instead of attending Sabbath services, if they have issues ..."
If our minister or one of our local elders or deacons determines for said member that they have issues or should be isolated, then they stay at home. If it is decided that the member is in a bad attitude, not because of any issue but because of what the ministers think in spite of what the member's reality is, then they stay at home and our ministers are just taken as being correct. If a member does stay at home for a bit, or if we might be away for more than two weeks, then we receive a formal talking-to from some minister or one of their designates. This is actually true. I know a fine lady here in our congregation whom we can call Sande, whose close friend from what was WCG died. We alll knew the lady who died. When Sande became sad and unsettled and pensive for weeks, although she was not told to "stay at home until you can straighten out your bad attitude and then you can come back", she was marked and noted by a local hanger-on deacon and the minister as being suspicious and a potential danger spot. In their minds, something seditious was bubbling in the lady, or around her, and it could be come a danger for the rest of us. Of course the rest of us knew all to well Sande's heartbreak. A few people just passed it off and said for her not to worry or let it get her down because she would see her friend in the first resurrection anyway. So where was God's true minister in all of this? Or maybe one should ask, where is God in these ministers?
It is the LCG ministers who decide and judge and approve of the staying at home, not a member.
I urge, very strongly, that the person who is the victim in this article OPEN your eyes and see that God is not in this church group.
Proof: The fruit of the Holy Spirit is NOT there... as demnostrated by what happened to you and many other times.
There is no love, no joy, no peace, no patience, no kindness, no goodness, no faithfulnes, no gentleness, no self-control!
Please, please, leave that group and spend time with God, letting the Holy Spirit guide your next steps. Don't be afraid. Leaving the group is not leaving God. Jesus said he would never leave you nor forsake you. Please find a peaceful, loving relationship with Jesus.
Anon, March 19, 2021 at 5:51 PM
Thank you very much for such an encouraging, Godly advice. Yes, "the fruit of the Holy Spirit is NOT there. There is no joy, no peace, no kindness, no goodness, no faithfulness, no gentleness, no self-control.".
Today, I received a reply to my email from a COG minister whom I believed to be of the true original church which has the faith once delivered. I sincerely asked some questions whether another church's teachings were correct. Boy, did I get a rude and arrogant reply! I was wrongly accused of being deceptive in my "form letter" meant to be sent to all churches. I was sincere in my questions but was rebuked harshly for not being oriented to his church teachings after all these years. In other word, I should know better. Sending out this "form" letter was NEVER in my mind! Why did he believe so? He said I should not hide in initials but reveal my full name. He did not have the courtesy of addressing me in my initials and no respectful signing off with "regards" or "love". Does Jesus Christ behave like this? I am so hurt and disappointed by his callous remarks that brings back memory of another similar reply many years ago by another WCG minister who had no sympathy, let alone empathy in my situation then.
These ministers are so quick in passing judgment without understanding the real issue or situation. Where is the humility? Don't they know they can offend "the little one" with such a condescending attitude? They really like to "lord it over us".
I think the time has come for me to leave this COG group and "find a peaceful loving relationship with Jesus" which I never have in Armstrongism.
"Did they reach out to me with genuine outgoing concern.."
In ACOG-land "genuine outgoing concern" is the church asking members to fake reality. The expression is nowhere to be found in the bible, and is an attempt to suppress the natural negative reactions of being abused by church loonies, especially the ministers. I once witnessed a minister alternatively verbally abuse a member with one sentence, then demand that they love the church with the next sentence. It's a cult ploy, and gutter morality.
I think for most of us who at one time or another attended a COG church, we all thought and expected christian characteristics. Once we fully accept that none of these churches are christian either by word or deed, then it gets easier to move on and put them behind us. None of the churches follow Christ's teachings nor do they have any of the fruits of the spirit they lay claim to. Moving on from them doesn't erase the hurt and damage that has been done, that can last for years but it did give me a different perspective. It helped me begin to look at things completely different than I did before.
To 4:44, you say that the ministers decide on the "stay-at-home" orders? Well, they've botched that one up so many times that NOW the governments of the world are ordering THEM to "stay at home"! What do you think? A fair punishment for those corrupt churches? They should know that the governments of the world are not of the kingdom of God but they act as if they are, being afraid of being fined, jailed, scandalized or losing their charitable status for daring to argue that they actually offer an "essential service".
But didn't Aaron offer an "essential service" when he went through the camp of Israel maskless in order to stave off an epidemic? (Num 16:47)
Pathetic is the church today for not knowing its raison d'etre. (They're too busy trying to hold off any potential administrative implosion, for which they could pin the blame on their tithe-payers)
Ah yes, the old reliable “bad attitude” I remember a few times I was told I had a“bad attitude” at LCG.
1. I had major crunch time at work. 80 hrs. Plus a week. The only time I wasn’t working was on the sabbath or when I was sleeping. I still went to church. My bad attitude? Not being chatty enough. Apparently being exhausted and not talkative enough is very unchristian.
2. The local congregation had a songleader that decided it was holy to start services 10 minutes early from time to time. My bad attitude? Getting caught up in traffic and arriving with the song service in full swing which still would have been 7-8 minutes early had they started on time. I got to hear from the podium for 10 minutes plus how I was an affront to God with my bad attitude of showing up “late” that one time.
3. A dear friend was fighting a losing battle with a disease. My bad attitude? Going to keep my friend company on the sabbath a few times instead of going to services. The ministers in the area couldn’t be bothered to visit this very dedicated person while they were dying. How dare I miss 3-4 sabbaths in the span of a year to visit this person. How dare I spit in God’s face like that! I’m glad I visited that friend.
4. A majorly bad attitude for not nodding, smiling, and acknowledging the minister at a adequate frequency during his repetitive sermons that I heard the last time he was there anyway. Sorry, I guess reading the Bible while a sermon is being repeated for the 10th time that year is “ignoring the voice of God”and “having a bad attitude”
5. Being mocked and told I had a bad attitude from the podium for having an electronic device which I was reading the Bible from. Apparently God is outraged at electronics and you only get meaning from reading the Bible on paper.
6. Being told I had a bad attitude and “lacked outgoing concern” for refusing to interact with a known child predator that had gone to a certain Asian country and attempted to prey on church kids there. The minister had decided this predator was a good person and had repented (which seems unlikely considering this person hadn’t stopped going to that country for that purpose) so how dare I not go along with his holy decision. Thankfully this LCG empowered predator ran into church folks there with actual morals that wouldn’t let him do what he wanted to do to their kids no matter how much he tried to pay them. I hope he didn’t do anything to kids outside of LCG but I don’t know if he did. Unfortunately it wouldn’t be surprising if he was successful.
7. I realized I didn’t have the bad attitude. It was them.
*Some details have been intentionally obfuscated as I still have relatives and friends in that soulless corporation.
Another classic, "you are trying to find a lose brick"
When I read or hear about these abusive situations happening in LCG or any church, I feel such a sadness and pain in my heart. If no one in LCG has said this to you, let me say...I'm so sorry this happened to you, it wasn't right. May God be with you and comfort you.
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