I feel sorry for Living Church of God members for constantly being in a state of unworthiness. Week after week it is one correction after another. There is always something that they seem to be doing wrong.
This week LCG members are being told that they need to not be convinced their opinions are right but need to be open to instruction, suggestions, and correction from the ministry. I think we have all seen how well this has worked out over the decades with LCG ministers, starting with Meredith and Weston!
So get on your knees this week and beg God to give you more of the spirit so you can easily be entreated.Are You Easily Entreated? The Apostle James describes a Christian using God’s Spirit as “easy to be entreated” (James 3:17, King James Version) or “willing to yield to reason” (Amplified Bible, Classic Edition) or “reasonable” (New American Standard Bible). Such a person will not be so convinced that his or her opinions or actions are right that advice from others is ignored. The Bible reveals that Solomon made a similar observation: “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who heeds counsel is wise” (Proverbs 12:15). Solomon also stressed the importance of being receptive to advice (Proverbs 19:20, 27; 22:17), and he repeatedly warned that serious consequences come when we ignore advice (Proverbs 8:36; 29:1). A humble and converted Christian will not overestimate the value of his or her opinions or actions but will be teachable (like David’s attitude in Psalm 25:4) and open to instructions, suggestions, and correction. Real Christians are easily entreated!
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
Notice what Winnail left out from the scripture he quoted:
James 3:17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
When...WHEN has the ministry of the LCG practiced mercy? What about being "without impartiality"? We all know how well they have NOT done this. And then there is the pesky point of hypocrisy.
LCG has had to deal with this from day one when Meredith remained in WCG in order for them to pay his attorney fees, court costs, and final judgment awarded for slandering Leona McNair. Then, once he and the church lost the court case, he bolted to the Global Church of God that was already set up for him, to jump ship into without ever having to do any work or get his hands dirty. Then he stabbed Raymond McNair and others in the back, took all their money and members, and started another splinter group. Oh, and don't forget Herbert Armstrong banishing him to Hawaii to learn some humility which he was unable to do, and whined to HWA about how he was being treated.
Sadly, for far too many in the COG ministry hypocrisy is the title that is most appropriate for them instead of minister/pastor.
38 comments:
This assumes that what they are being open to and teachable about is actually true.
"Living Church of God Members Need To Be More Open To Instruction, Suggestions and Correction!"
You mean like the ministers are?
CoG ministers are just as thick-headed as other "Christian" churches. I guess you just can't fix people.
Those ministers are as hypocritical and are of need of correction as they spout. I remember a minister so arrogant and so full of pride, it was unlike any Christian minister I had ever witnessed. They’ve needed correction since WCG. They are like the modern day Pharisees.
Well this sure explains a lot about Bob!
Monkey see, monkey not do, monkey tell others to do what monkey won't himself do. HWA, DCP, GRF, RCM, RW AND tiny Bob to a tee!
Many members of LCG are in their 70’s. Most came from WCG when it implode back in the 90’s. Doug W gives the same message over and over and over. If the members have not learned how to be humble by now what will another correction from Doug accomplish? The members need to understand, all the key positions in the kingdom are already taken by the high ups in LCG. All the members can hope for is to scrub floors and clean their toilets. It would be so exciting to listen to the same sermon week after week. Has there ever been an encouraging sermon given in a LCG congregation?
Living *has* practiced mercy at times - like letting people in to opening night of its Feast in Branson when no other group could meet due to theater bookings.
Explain to a minister that the phrase "on the 15th.....is the feast...." (Lev 23:6) refers to one day, one feast.
While I attended services, some members were definitely more equal than others. Elders pecking on members to prove their "superiority" was rampant. And it was done in the open for all to see.
All the "obey" and "be teachable" blabber was the abusers demanding that their victims play by the rigged rules.
None of them are truly called fruits prove it!
This is so funny. For years, we've had current members of ACOGs and "independents" admonish those of us who left that we should never have checked our brains at the door. We should have known better than to do certain things, like rigorously follow the child-rearing booklet as one example, or take the prophecy dates seriously for another, or to allow the ministers to ruin our finances by requesting emergency offerings on our credit cards. We've even listened to Dennis as he praised people who stood up to crazy Nazi ministers like David C. Pack!
Well, here is a perfect illustration as to why so many members appeared to have allowed the ministers to do their thinking for them. Doug reiterates basic Armstrong-instruction, admonishing that good, diligent LCG members will do exactly that.
Shortly after leaving, I went through a stage of my recovery in which I realized that if an authority figure told me to do something that was either downright stupid, or would cause personal harm, I was allowed to call him on it, and to actually flip him off and walk away if necessary. Pendulum swing was just a tad too far, and there were consequences including getting fired on two occasions. But, in counseling, a therapist turned me on to an entire new world involving negotiation skills. Of course this had been a deficient area for me, as I grew up in Armstrongism, because you were simply not permitted to negotiate with your parents, or with your minister. However, it actually is a vital part of being an adult, and functioning as a contributing adult, and realizing that if you have skills and value, you are operating from a position of power. You can influence things in a positive direction not only for yourself but for others as well.
If your church does not permit or encourage negotiation, they are repressing you, and keeping you operating as a child. There are Biblical examples of some of the patriarchs negotiating with God! Actually, even wrestling with God! Does your minister believe that he is better than God??? Apparently, in Armstrongism they have, and still do! And that is part of the Armstrong problem. Too many Richards masquerading as spiritual "guides".
Yes, the COG ministry is known for its hypocrisy, not the fruit of mercy.
This harshness, cold and cruel lack of love, is a byproduct of rejecting the justification offered by Jesus and ignoring the ministry of assurance and sanctification of the Holy Spirit.
COG leaders, like Winnail, work diligently to keep the people in a perpetual state of failure by leading them away from teachings about the righteousness of Jesus justifying, making them right, before God.
By downgrading the Holy Spirit in their dogma, COG leaders seek to limit access to the Comforter's assurance that the people belong to the God who has redeemed them, washed away their sins, and guarantees their salvation.
Lack of knowledge of and assurance of their standing before God leaves the people vulnerable to all the abuses of the COGs.
One must wonder if COG doctrine that portrays Jesus as only a partial savior and the Holy Spirit as merely the energy tool of God was formulated as an unfortunate accident of the uneducated, or was it an evil, intentional plot to subjugate the people?
Prayer for the people of the LCG (1 Corinthians 6:11):
May these people know that they were washed, sanctified, justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Holy Spirit. Amen!
Excellent analysis June 5, 11:48
Doug Winnail, a babe who so often does what seems right in his own eyes, wrote: "...Are You Easily Entreated? The Apostle James describes a Christian using God’s Spirit as “easy to be entreated” (James 3:17, King James Version)..."
******
Was that a good thought from Doug, or was it just an evil thought (Ezekiel 38:10)?
How was Doug deceived into believing that "The Apostle James describes a Christian using God’s Spirit?" Was the word "use" anywhere in James 3:17, which Doug only partially quoted? No, take a look:
"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy."
When will Doug, thinking like a babe, wake up and realize that he cannot earn salvation by using God's Spirit?
Wisdom, like peace and gentleness and faith, and fear of the LORD, etc. are fruits of God's Spirit that God controls and gives out by His own will and purpose and timing within His Plan of Salvation to save all humanity, and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels.
So, how does Doug use God's Spirit? How did James use God's Spirit. A babe cannot explain that, because it isn't even true. And yet Doug believes the living group followers are so dumbed down, that Doug thinks he can educate them in some truth about using something he himself does not have unless/until God gives that gift to him. It's ridiculous, but a babe wouldn't understand that, but would just keep doing what seems right in his own eyes.
No wonder Doug, the babe that he is, by another spirit still continues to believe in another Jesus very soon to come and reign on earth 1,000 years, but that is another gospel, which is "of Doug, of Living, of the hirelings of xcogs who fled the former WCG."
What would happen to those in the living group that are unable to use God's Spirit in the way that Doug thinks he is so successfully doing as a great example for all of us to emulate?
Will it mean having one's name deleted from the Book of Life? Will it mean death, coming awake in a 3rd resurrection, and again being put to death?
Or, does God by His Spirit through His Son, by His Plan of Salvation and not by Doug's false ideas, love this world (humanity) so much so that He will use His Spirit (Ezekiel 36:26-28), and provide fruits of His Spirit, decently and in order to humanity such that this world is not condemned, and everlasting life eventually becomes a reality?
Time will tell...
John
Take the red pill and get out of Matrix. Thank you brethren, you may take your seat.
11.48 pm, I find your first paragraph odd. When a person left the church, the blame was typically put on them being too independent minded. Those harmed by 1975 and similar got the blame the victim routine, and was usually put down to mistaken thinking on the part of the victims. The church gave lip service to "prove all things" but it was only a code word to see the bible through the church's eyes. The ACOGs have always been anti thinking.
Most members were deceived to various degrees, so members admonishing others for leaving their brains at the door was rare. I for one, never heard such an accusation.
Looking back, what the church leaders heartlessly exploited was the inherent immaturity of youth, since the majority of members were basically young when I started attending.
Exploiting the "poor" rather than clothing them with understanding was despicable behavior by HWA and his Gestapo ministers.
Pot calling the kettle black "NO2HWA"
access to the Comforter's assurance
Rather than engage in wishful thinking, why not admit that nobody really knows the future or the next life? Atheists don't know and religious people don't know. So what is there to be sure of? Nothing. How can belief in the unproven and unprovable give any thinking person assurance? Why would God expect people to be irrational and just believe what they cannot prove?
crazy Nazi ministers like David C. Pack!
The Nazis would have thrown Pack out the door. Name one Nazi that supports Pack. Name one Pack follower who supports Nazis.
crazy Nazi ministers like David C. Pack
I thought Pack claimed to have some Jewish ancestry. Nazis wouldn't be too happy about that.
Armstrongism is not like other churches. It operates through a religious spirit to control, dominate, destroy marriages & finances, and attack people who wake up and leave.
That is not comparable to the Baptists or Calvary Chapel or Grace, etc.
Nor is it comparable to deliverance and healing ministries that set people free like Jesus did living under the New Covenant. No stealing allowed.
11:48 It always annoyed me how people thoroughly tied to the COGs somehow make fun of those who followed things the COGs taught to their hurt. Some will either:
1) deny the teachings on medical intervention, certain forbidden careers (e.g. doctor, lawyer, ets), divorce/remarriage, separation from family, excess tithes/offerings, etc. were ever taught or
2) state that one should not have just followed everything (despite the fact total acceptance of COG teaching was the rule).
So much cognitive dissonance within the COGs and the current Armstrongist believers.
Well Flurry claims to be descended from King David. Claiming to be Jewish is fashionable when your life revolves around a religion that started 2500 years ago in Palestine. Nazis would want them because they are too kooky.
Armstrongism is not like other churches. It operates through a religious spirit to control, dominate, destroy marriages & finances, and attack people who wake up and leave.
All false beliefs cause trouble one way or another.
OK, 5:04, allow me to clarify.
Discussions have been had over the past two decades involving people who left and people who stayed. Questions were asked, like "Why did you leave?"
Frequently, answers were given citing some of the really damaging practices and beliefs which had negatively affected members, such as the child-rearing practices, anti-medical doctrine, the bogus prophecies with dates set, or British Israelism. You know! There were countless negatives which could be cited. Anyway, the responses which came back to us were odd, and actually these people would have been considered to be Laodiceans back in the day, from their attitudes, but a number of them stated that they had been able to stick with the core doctrines of sabbath, holy days, tithing, and clean meats because they never checked their brains at the door. Some said that they had had the common sense never to even read "1975 in Prophecy" "The US and BC in Prophecy", "The Book of Revelation Unveiled at Last!", etc. I guess it was their way of chiding those of us who had bought into the whole program, had gotten burned by aspects of it, and had realized belatedly that it was wrong. What these people threw in our faces was, of course, ridiculous, specious, and revisionist to say the least. Essentially, they were telling us "We're better than you, because we sere selective in what WCG teachings we believed and accepted, and Oh, look at us, we never left".
We all fit into certain loose categories here, and you're never going to win over certain people from the other categories because they know some things were wrong, but peoples' solutions vary widely. We vary in how far we took things in our solutions. I guess each of us did what we felt we needed to do. Some, upon looking at us as a group, have used the analogy of attempting to herd cats, and they are probably very accurate in that. Anyhoo, hope that explanation helps. Armstrongism was such a hot mess that analyzing it in the aftermath becomes complicated
Hypocrisy is becoming LCG's trademark, it's going to be their downfall too! And the main culprit is over CAD, Doug Winnail. Any man that divorces his wife, she marries another then divorces him and then is taken back by the first husband (Winnail) really has no business judging anyone's divorce and remarriage legitimacy.
Deuteronomy 24:4 "then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the LORD."
But wait...his case is the exception because they "re-baptized" his wife so her sins could be forgiven and they could get married again.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.
When you have a leading minister that keeps saying in the next five to ten years or in the next fifteen years or so…….
Then you actually read your Bible and see men of God who are prophets speak with the power of God, and it came to pass concerning a matter, it makes one wonder.
When you keep seeing tithe money go to television networks to get on this station and that station instead of using that money to better support local congregations. They should use primarily the internet instead of television to get their message out. COG went from pamphlets, to newspapers, to radio, to television and now we have the internet. They should eliminate the middle man, besides it’s Satan’s broadcast network, right??
When you have to keep spending 1K to 2k dollars for expensive hotel rates for the feast for one’s second tithe, and worry if you have a job when you get back it becomes tiresome. It’s called the feast of booths. Back in the day that’s how they did it, they didn’t go to expensive resort areas to dwell for a week. I thought it was about following this OT?
Oh yea, the BI booklets and doctrine. That’s actually the worse.
If anyone had (secretly) rejected 1975 before the date came around, it was most likely because they had received outside help. Perhaps someone had pointed them to books on William Millers failed prophesies, or similar. Or a person who had been abused by another group, warned his friends how deceitful churches can be. I've heard of older people who had attended other denominations claiming that the WCG was a wonderful church. I bet these members had learnt how to play the church game of double think, ie, believing one thing and saying something very different, plus they hid what they disagreed with.
Church can be OK for some people if they play by the under the table rules that all people in police states live by.
Our minister lied to us sat down with him and he never admitted it. So many ministers are narcissists so therefore you cannot and will not ever reconcile with them!
they "re-baptized" his wife
Apparently her re-baptism didn't have any more effect than her first baptism. Mrs. Winnail rarely attends LCG Sabbath services. An ordinary member with her sparse attendance record would be suspended or worse, and the husband of such a wife would not be allowed to speak in front of the congregation because of his family's bad example.
One set of rules for the bigwigs and another for the ordinary members. That's LCG in a nutshell.
you keep seeing tithe money go to television networks to get on this station and that station instead of using that money to better support local congregations.
LCG members are happy to see money go to proclaiming the gospel and not just funding more church socials.
What they aren't happy about is when some of the proclaimers preach as if we were still in the Eisenhower administration, and other presenters preach that they wish we still were.
Rod Meredith had his hang-ups and preoccupations, but he didn't turn LCG's message into Newsmax Lite, as Gerald Weston is now doing.
When you have a leading minister that keeps saying in the next five to ten years or in the next fifteen years or so…….
The first couple of times I heard Rod Meredith speak, I dutifully took down in my notes Rod's statement that Christ would return in "the next five to ten" years.
Ten years and a couple of months after that, I left LCG with a clear conscience. I can't understand why anyone stays there when they have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, in their own words, that God is not inspiring their preaching.
Rod Meredith had his hang-ups and preoccupations, but he didn't turn LCG's message into Newsmax Lite, as Gerald Weston is now doing.
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Yea,I will admit Weston is a bit more political than Meredith. So once again the hypocrisy continues as they don't want their members to vote or get into politics. He already admitted to being a conservative in a sermon. He might as well just vote and tell their members to do the same.
Random comments.
"They rebaptized his wife." Why? She certainly seemed like one of the converted ones at Ambassador College! There always appeared to be an element of street theatre or showmanship in the Armstrong Church of God to help sell the tithe paying brethren on some sticky situation the ministers needed to explain away. I'm sure the theatre even started before HWA's interracial marriage to Ramona, knowing the reverence the entire church held for Loma.
"statement that Christ would return in five to ten years." Yeah, I was a kid in grade school in the '50s, and I remember carving on a new wooden ruler I had gotten "must last until 1972!" I don't know what ever happened to that ruler or the Germans either. But, when they, and then subsequently Jesus didn't show, I boogied on out of there.
"He already admitted being a conservative in a sermon." Well, I am certainly fiscally conservative. I do appreciate a certain amount of law and order to preserve the freedom in which good, hard working, non-criminal people can raise their families. But in many ways, I am libertarian, and I also hold some liberal viewpoints. I'm certainly not part of the new MAGA party which has emerged, so I guess I'd be called a RINO. I don't believe that anyone is 100% anything. That's why I dislike labels or being put in a box. I also believe that church is not the place for politics. I refuse to be instructed that one party or the other is "God's Party", because there's something rotten about both major parties. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world."
Members who had offended ministers were humiliated by being forced to be re baptized.
I read on one of these blogs that an elder who informed HQ that a high ranking minister was discovered in the act of adultery, was punished by being re baptized.
So cover up your ministers sins, or else, capeesh?
How did Winnail's wife get re-baptized if she snubs her nose at Sabbath attendance? How many times must she get baptized before she receives something? Was it just for show?
This is what I said earlier. You must check for sincere repentance before you consider taking a woman back.
Is this compromise on the law again for the sake of "pursuing mutually selfish and emotional feelings"? (i.e., he is lonely while she has no where to go)
The result? He takes her back while she backs off her repentance (if she had it in the first place?). That looks good on neither one.
Biblically illiterate comments flying around this post as if the was no tomorrow.
The is no difference being baptised in LCG or an 'independant'. That is simply prejudiced hate. All baptisim done scriptural correct doesn't matter which specific cog organisation baptised you. That is simply GODLESS ABD CHRISTLESS hate.
The is no such thing as a re-baptisim. Only incorrect baptisim, the laying of hands may not have been done, water may not have been used or some aspect left out. But being re-baptised if you have gone through a standard correct baptisim is not biblical at all.
There were quite few occurrences of people getting baptism again especially after the apostasy entering a new COG group. Anon 12:12 quit coming on here like you know everything. RCM talked about getting members baptized again briefly.
Also, in Acts some people only had John’s baptism at first (repentance) and then they got baptized again for the Holy Spirit .
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