Well, Crap! Jesus May Not Be Returing On Thursday!

JC may not be here on February 13.

How quickly this changed from claiming the date was assured

AI COG Deep Dive: Church of God, The Eternal’s 50th Anniversary – A Study in Contradictions, Stagnation, and Personality Cults

Church of God, The Eternal’s 50th Anniversary 

– A Study in Contradictions, Stagnation, and Personality Cults

It’s time to take a deep dive into the claims of Church of God, The Eternal (COGTE) and their enthusiastic defense of Raymond Cole’s legacy. For decades, they’ve touted themselves as the “faithful remnant,” holding fast to the doctrines of Herbert Armstrong as if they’re the only ones with the secret truth. But let’s take a closer look, shall we? Spoiler alert: the emperor has no clothes.

No “Work”? Just Sit Tight and Wait for the Two Witnesses

Raymond Cole, in his infinite wisdom, decided that the Great Commission—Matthew 28:19-20—was a suggestion, not a command. Instead of evangelizing and spreading the gospel, Cole proudly claimed that starting a “work” would be contrary to the will of God. Why? Well, because apparently, anyone who tries to spread the gospel without God’s “divine commission” is just being presumptuous. According to Cole, that’s “presumption,” not faithfulness.

And how do we know that his take was correct? Because “presumed works” have been “pathetic.” That’s right, other people who tried to preach the gospel have failed, so clearly, God doesn’t want us to do it either. Forget about being salt and light in the world (Matthew 5:13-16), we’ll just wait for the two witnesses and a mighty angel to handle the gospel proclamation while we sit back and watch the show. After all, we’re so spiritual that we don’t need to do anything—God will take care of it for us.

The Doctrine of Stagnation: Same Old, Same Old

One of the most puzzling things about COGTE is their unwavering commitment to the exact same teachings that Raymond Cole embraced when he started the group in 1975. Cole proudly declared that he was sticking with Herbert Armstrong’s message because “the doctrine” was the true revelation from God. Of course, it’s a bit awkward when you realize that Armstrong’s teachings were largely based on a blend of legalism, British-Israelism, and prophecy speculation that doesn’t exactly scream “gospel of grace.”

But hey, consistency is key, right? If it worked for Armstrong in the 1930s, it must still be just as relevant in the 21st century. Forget about any theological progress or growth; just keep parroting the same message over and over, year after year. After all, the truth is unchanging… right? Except, of course, when it’s convenient to twist scripture to support your agenda.

Raymond Cole: The Self-Appointed Leader and His “Divine” Authority

Let’s be clear: Raymond Cole was self-appointed. Despite the group’s claims of being divinely led, Cole’s leadership was never sanctioned by any higher authority. In fact, he was defrocked by the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) and had his ministerial license revoked, meaning he was not allowed to represent any church in any official capacity. Yet, in typical cult fashion, Cole was able to convince a group of followers that his teachings were the only correct path, regardless of his lack of legitimate authority.

It’s fascinating how a man, who was removed from a position of power, can reassert that very power by claiming to speak with divine authority. But don’t worry, we’re told this is not a personality-driven group. If it looks like a cult and smells like a cult, it’s definitely not a cult, right?

But let’s get to the heart of the issue: Cole’s stance that God’s Church is a spiritual organism but also managed through human-led corporate structures speaks volumes. His authority and his group's continued existence are built on the shaky ground of human leadership, not divine mandate. If you need a legal entity, tax exemptions, and personal authority to fulfill a divine mission, maybe you’re doing something wrong.

Cole, in his writings, made it clear that he wasn’t about starting a “new work” or deviating from Armstrong's teachings. Instead, he championed a “faith once delivered,” focusing on preserving Armstrong's doctrines rather than engaging in the active, outward-facing mission Christ gave His followers. While other Christian groups are out preaching the gospel, COGTE preferred to wait passively, believing that God would bring in people when He deemed it appropriate. This passive approach to evangelism begs the question: if you truly believe you’re the “true” church, why wouldn’t you make an active effort to share the gospel with the lost?

The Shifting Personality Cult: From Cole to Brisby

But it’s not just the doctrines that haven’t changed. The cult of personality surrounding Raymond Cole has simply been passed down to Jon W. Brisby, who became the leader after Cole’s death. While Brisby may have inherited Cole’s position, the group has done little to change its fundamental focus on personality-driven leadership. The group still revolves around the leader rather than Christ, and the claim that COGTE is a “spiritual organism” rings hollow when you see the clear physical structure and leadership hierarchy in place.

Brisby, much like Cole, seems content to hold onto the same old teachings and avoid any real outward action. Instead of addressing the need for evangelism, Brisby maintains the same isolationist mentality that Cole promoted. The focus is still on keeping the “truth” intact rather than on actively engaging with the world or advancing the kingdom of God. The transition from Cole to Brisby has been seamless—not because of any spiritual growth, but because it’s all about preserving the group’s image and authority, not about expanding God’s work.

The Church Is Not a Physical Organization, Unless It’s Convenient

One of Cole’s key teachings was that the Church is a spiritual organism, not a physical organization. And yet, in what can only be described as a divine contradiction, COGTE went ahead and created a legal non-profit corporation. Yes, while preaching the gospel through spiritual means, they had no qualms about registering the group as a physical organization for tax benefits. But don’t worry—this is apparently totally fine, because, as Cole himself put it, “creating a manmade legal entity has no bearing upon how God views things.” Right. That’s like saying, “It doesn’t matter if we take the money; we’re just doing it for the ‘spiritual’ benefit.”

The contradiction is too glaring to ignore. If the church is truly a spiritual organism, why is there a physical structure to manage tax-exempt status? The legal registration has everything to do with power, money, and convenience, not “spiritual” concerns. Let’s face it, they didn’t just register for the tax break—this was about securing the institution’s power and its place in the corporate world.

Conclusion: A Spiritual Legacy Built on Shaky Foundations

Ultimately, Church of God, The Eternal is a prime example of why “doctrine” and “tradition” alone can never replace the call to live out the full gospel. Their refusal to embrace the evangelical mission, their insistence on the superiority of their “spiritual organism” while maintaining a physical legal entity, and their blind devotion to Raymond Cole, correction, Jon W. Brisby as an infallible leader all paint a picture of a group that values consistency over truth.

In the end, what we have here is not a “remnant” of the true Church but a group that has erected a spiritual mausoleum around a long-dead set of teachings. They are so focused on preserving a legacy of doctrine that they’ve forgotten the very call of Christ: to go into the world and preach the gospel to every nation.

But no worries—while they wait for the two witnesses to do the hard work, they can keep reading the same old articles and pretending that their brand of “truth” is any less manmade than the corporate structure they’ve set up. If you’re looking for a church that’s truly committed to Christ’s mission and not just to preserving human-made traditions, it’s probably best to keep looking.

Let’s just say this: If you ever find yourself needing a laugh at the expense of a group’s inability to practice what they preach, look no further than Church of God, The Eternal. Just don’t expect any evangelism—those two witnesses are still on the clock.


50th Anniversary of COGTE

Sideshow Bob Wants Us To Believe He Might Be Elijah. But, He might Not Be. But Really He Is. Maybe. Maybe Not

Here we are again.  God must be rolling his eyes once again at the sheer grandiloquence of our very own self-appointed Elijah. I can see God sighing heavily as he gets out his enormous bingo card to tick off another box with one of many hundreds of Elijahs the Church of God has produced over the decades. Sadly, some church members see this as a sign that this has to be God's true church because you never see Elijah appearing to other Christian churches. 

Our most highly favored gift to humanity is back tooting his itty-bitty horn trying too hard to get our attention so that we recognize his awesomeness. The church apparently needs Elijah to appear and whip the church into shape, and the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel is just the man! Woo Hoo!

Although people, like the discredited Ron Weinland and David Pack have claimed to be ‘Elijah,’ neither of them are. 

 

Yet, the Bible does show that there will be an ‘Elijah’ who is alive before Jesus returns and that it is likely that he will be one of the two witnesses. And as Jesus is likely to return within the next couple of decades, it is reasonable to consider that he must be alive today. 

 

Could he be one who has restored information on church history, doctrine, prophecy, and the reason that God created anything? Could he be one reaching people around the world with the Gospel of the Kingdom of God in over 1,000 different languages? Or has God not chosen to have him do much at this stage?

The Great Bwana and Elijah To Be then drags out Buffy McNair and Dibar Apartian  to prove to us that Herbert was not the Elijah to come and that one bigger and better was to come:

Was it Herbert W. Armstrong? 

 

No. 

 

Did Herbert W. Armstrong ever think he might be Elijah? 

 

Most definitely. 

 

The late evangelist Raymond McNair admitted:

However, on occasion, Mr. Armstrong may have expressed some doubt in regard to his calling and ministry, concerning himself being the end-time “Elijah,” (McNair, Raymond. Was Mr. Armstrong Who He Said He Was? Ad in Connection’s section of The Journal, June 30, 2004). 

 

Yes, HWA expressed some doubt–not simply may have. Herbert W. Armstrong admitted to Aaron Dean, his long-time personal aide (and Aaron Dean told me this personally on several occasions for over the past two+ decades) that he might not have understood the biblical passages on the Elijah correctly before he died, and that God could raise someone else up to fulfill the Elijah role. Furthermore, HWA specifically expressed doubt to the late evangelist Dibar Apartian (and who also told me). Dibar Apartian did not believe that HWA was the Elijah when we discussed this several times and he agreed with me about this.

The Great Elijah Bwana then pulls one of his gaslighting stunts to make you believe you are wrong to think he is going to be the Elijah.

HWA, himself, wrote:

Jesus shall come, SOON NOW, to RESTORE ALL THINGS! He did NOT restore all things when he first came. John the Baptist did not “restore all things.” But the one who was to “restore all things” just before the “day of the Lord” and preparing the way for Christ’s second coming, was YET to come, in the future, as Jesus said. Now what are the “all things” to be RESTORED? “Restitution” means restore to a former state or condition (Armstrong HW. Brethren & Co-Worker Letter, August 24, 1982). 

 

Note that HWA states ONE (Elijah) comes just before the day of the Lord—an event that still has not occurred, hence some additional restoration beyond what HWA did is needed–and this has been happening in the Continuing Church of God. CCOG has restored more than any COG in the 21st century and under the human leadership of Bob Thiel it continues to do so. In time, God will make the final Elijah clear to all willing to see (this is NOT saying that he MUST be Bob Thiel–but we believe it will be a leader in CCOG).

It's all about me, but not about me, even though it is about me, but shouldn't be.

Deep down, you know he is referring to himself above all others. There is NO ONE in the improperly named "continuing" Church of god that could ever step into such shoes. His narcissism and vanity would never permit such a thing.

There is a 21st century Elijah, and that individual would be expected to be part of the Continuing Church of God.

He continues on: 

Sadly, just as many would not hear Elijah’s nor John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well. 

 

That is not a surprise as most Christians in the end times were to be Laodicean, and Jesus warned the Laodiceans since they would not ‘get with the program,’ that they would be punished (Revelation 3:14-18). 

 

Of course, if you are willing to believe the truth and do what the Bible teaches, that does not have to include you.

Fortunately for the world, and particularly the churches of God,  no one needs to heed any warning or Elijah gobbledygook that Sideshow Bob proclaims. In the grand scheme of things, it is all worthless words. 

The Elijah’s restoring of “all things” means that he is to be restoring information that the true Church of God once understood, but later must have lost or misunderstood. 

 

The problem is that just as many would not hear Elijah’s or John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well.

No, Bob is not Elijah. No one in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God is Elijah. No one needs to heed any warning that comes from this self-appointed, illegitimate, non-ordained, narcissistic church leader. Everything is always about him and how great he is. It isn't and never will be.

 

 

The Cult Next Door: Interview Seth Forrestier

 

"All Going to Burn", The Cult Next Door, 5 Feb 2025 [1:18:07] "In Ep.50: 'All Going to Burn,' we sit down with Seth Forrestier, a former fourth-generation member of the Worldwide Church of God & its offshoots. Seth shares his experiences growing up in these high-control gr…"(Audio links in comments)
byu/CultPodcastsBot incultpodcasts

Nanci's Story: Feast of Tabernacles, the church's strict doctrines, and the lasting effects of religious indoctrination

Discover the captivating story of Nanci, a former member of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG). In this eye-opening interview, Nanci reveals the challenges of growing up in a high-control religious environment, the impact of the church's teachings on her family, and her courageous decision to break free.

Hear firsthand accounts of Nanci's experiences with the Feast of Tabernacles, the church's strict doctrines, and the lasting effects of religious indoctrination. Witness her inspiring journey of self-discovery, healing, and finding a new community of faith.

If you're interested in stories of resilience, religious deconstruction, or the power of finding your own voice, this video is a must-watch!

Dave Pack: Young People In The Church Will NOT Be Part Of The 144,000. WUT?????

 

Imagine being a young person sitting in church services and hearing this kind of bullshit! 

Armstrongism is vile to the core

Crackpot Prophet Tries To Hint Loma Armstrong Dreamed About Him Starting A Second Endtime Work

California has always been known as the land of fruits and nuts, and when it comes to a certain self-appointed Church of God leader, the nuttiness just gets worse by the day. No one could have ever imagined that a resentful lay member would self-appoint himself as the end-time leader of a splinter group. Stung by the fact that not one single Church of God ever made the decision to ordain him, he has had to invent all kinds of atrocious claims to legitimize himself with the Church of God movement. From dubious "theological" diplomas from a diploma mill in India to the dubious double blessing by Gaylyn Bonjour, the outlandish claims continue to pile up like bodily deposits in an outhouse.

This time, the Great Bwana has made the outlandish claim that Loma Armstrong may have dreamed about him starting an end time work.

When believers read about dreams in the Hebrew scriptures, they realize that God has actually used them.

But, some in the various COGs have commented that they do not care to know about dreams in this century.

Do dreams and prophets have any place in the Christian Church today?

Did any dreams precede the start of the old Radio Church of God? What about the Continuing Church of God (which did not officially form as a declared entity until December 28, 2012)?

I had a couple of dreams prior to the start of the Continuing Church of God, and also someone I did not know, who lived in New Zealand, had one prior to that start as well. 

 

Though many discount all dreams, many also forget that Herbert W. Armstrong believed that his wife Loma D. Armstrong had a dream from God, although it took him some years to accept the validity of it:

Within 30 or 60 days after our marriage God spoke to my wife in what might have been an intense unusual dream, or a vision — but it was years later before we came to realize that this really was a message from God. (Armstrong HW. Brethren and Co-worker letter, November 28, 1956)

One night my wife had a dream so vivid and impressive it overwhelmed and shook her tremendously. It was so realistic it seemed more like a vision. For two or three days afterward everything else seemed unreal — as if in a daze — and only this extraordinary dream seemed real.

In her dream she and I were crossing the wide intersection, only a block or two from our apartment, where Broadway diagonally crosses Sheridan Road. Suddenly there appeared an awesome sight in the sky above. It was a dazzling spectacle — the sky filled with a gigantic solid mass of brilliant stars, shaped like a huge banner. The stars began to quiver and separate, finally vanishing. She called my attention to the vanishing stars, when another huge grouping of flashing stars appeared, then quivering, separating, and vanishing like the first.

As she and I, in her dream, looked upward at the vanishing stars, three large white birds suddenly appeared in the sky between us and the vanishing stars. These great white birds flew directly toward us. As they descended nearer, she perceived that they were angels.

“Then,” my wife wrote a day or two after the dream, in a letter to my mother which I have just run across among old family pictures, “it dawned on me that Christ was coming, and I was so happy I was just crying for joy. Then suddenly I thought of Herbert and was rather worried.”

She knew I had evidenced very little religious interest, although we had attended a corner church two or three times.

Then it seemed that, from among these angels in her dream, that, “Christ descended from among them and stood directly in front of us.

At first I was a little doubtful and afraid of how He would receive us, because I remembered we had neglected our Bible study and had our minds too much on things apart from His interests. But as we went up to Him, He put His arms around both of us, and we were so happy! I thought people all over the world had seen Him come. As far as we could see, people were just swarming into the streets at this broad intersection. Some were glad and some were afraid.

“Then it seemed He had changed into an angel. I was terribly disappointed at first, until he told me Christ was really coming in a very short time.”

At that time, we had been going quite regularly to motion – picture theatres. She asked the angel if this were wrong. He replied Christ had important work for us to do, preparing for His coming — there would be no time for “movies .” (Those were the days of the “silent” pictures.) Then the angel and the whole spectacle seemed to vanish, and she awakened, shaken and wondering!

In the morning, she told me of her dream. I was embarrassed. I didn’t want to think about it, yet I was afraid to totally dismiss it. I thought of a logical way to evade it myself, and still solve it. …

Do not hastily ascribe a dream to God. True, the Bible shows that God has spoken to His own chosen servants by this means of communication — primarily in the Old Testament, and before the writing of the Bible was completed. But most dreams mean nothing. And false prophets have misled people by telling false dreams, representing their dreams to be the Word of God (Jeremiah 23, where God says, “I am against prophets who recount lying dreams, leading my people astray with their lies and their empty pretensions, though I never sent them, never commissioned them” — verse 32, Moffatt translation).

Certainly I did not ascribe this dream to God. It made me feel a little uncomfortable at the time, and I was anxious to forget it — which I did for some years. I was twenty – five at the time. God left me to my own ways for five more years. But when I was age thirty, He began to deal with me in no uncertain terms… (The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 1973, pp. 187,193-194).

Loma and Herbert W. Armstrong were married in 1917. They were specifically told that they would have a work to do. Furthermore, the bright lights in the dream may have had to do with doing a work (cf. Matthew 5:16)–a work that seemed to vanish and return (flash). 

 

Thus, there was a dream from God given to a woman in the 20th century that preceded the start of the old Radio Church of God that Herbert W. Armstrong led. The Radio Church of God represented the start of the Philadelphia era and the Philadelphian work–a work that is not finished (cf. Matthew 24:14-15)–and Herbert W. Armstrong claimed that a dream given to his wife was from God, prior to the start of the Philadelphia era.

Who knew the crackpot prophet from Grover Beach/Arroyo Grande was the "work that is not finished". See, I told you it just gets nuttier and nuttier!

Now, consider that since the Philadelphia era was raised up after Loma Armstrong’s dream, a question to ponder is, would God do anything similar to point to the continuation of the end-time COG remnant of the Philadelphians? 

 

Consider that in Loma Armstrong’s dream that there were two sets of flashing stars–there were two parts to the dream. Herbert W. Armstrong is now dead and there was a pause between the work God had him to do and the completion of the final phase of the work to finally fulfill Matthew 24:14 (cf. Isaiah 29:14).

Herbert W. Armstrong mentioned the dream from time to time publicly, here are two nearly identical accounts:

I’m usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn’t really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast-approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the Coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At the time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, November 25, 1955) 

 

I’m usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn’t really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel in a vision that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast- approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At that time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, February 21, 1956) 

 

Notice that the dream was to go until the end of the world and the coming of Jesus–since Herbert W. Armstrong has been dead since January 16, 1986–if the dream was from God then, does it not make sense that the second half of the dream would be fulfilled by another? Like in the 21st century? We in the Continuing Church of God are fulfilling that second part of the stars.

The bullshit just keeps piling up:

Perhaps it should be mentioned, Herbert W. Armstrong had more information about what I am referring to as the first set of stars in the dream. He wrote:

It was a dazzling spectacle … People by the hundreds came running into this broad intersection looking up to see the strange phenomena … A vast multitude of eyes were upon us … I have only come to believe that this dream was a bonafide call from God in the light of subsequent events. (Armstrong HW. The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 9th installment. Plain Truth, August 1958, p. 18).

Eyes of a vast multitude suggest that the dream was saying, that the work to be done was to have a witness to many. This happened with the old Radio and Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong’s leadership in the 20th century. The second set of stars in the dream, which he did not mention in the August 1958 Plain Truth, article, but did in his published Autobiography, may pertain to what I have called, for years, The Final Phase of the Work. But even if it had applicability to the ministry of Herbert W. Armstrong only, the dream, which shortly before his death he confirmed he believed was from God (per Aaron Dean, who I discussed this with on October 30, 2015), shows that one did precede the Church of God work he was involved in. 

Consider that Herbert W. Armstrong concluded that his wife Loma’s dream was from God. He also believed the first part of it had to do with the start of the Philadelphia era of the Church of God via the Radio Church of God. He did not discuss the fulfillment of the second part of the dream directly, however he taught another work would be done.

Consider that since Herbert W. Armstrong did not teach that the second part of his wife Loma’s dream was fulfilled and that he also taught a greater work was going to happen after his death. It is greater because it will fulfill Matthew 24:14, etc. That is the work that we in the ContinuingChurch of God are leading (see The Final Phase of the Work and Preparing for the ‘Short Work’ and The Famine of the Word). It appears that the second part of Loma D. Armstrong’s dream was pointing to the Continuing Church of God–the group that best represents the remnant of the Philadelphian portion of the Church of God. As far as radio and new doors in television and other media, check out the CCOG Multimedia page.

Bob Thiel and his little group are NOT a second work and are not here to complete any "work" that Herbert never finished. These are just more self-aggrandizing lies that Bob continues to tell in order to legitimize his apostate ministry.

The Armstrongist god has to be the weakest god that anyone could invent. Why would a supreme God need some self-appointed fool from the middle of California to redeem humankind with some kind of final work? That's a direct spit in the face to the hundreds of millions of Christians down through the ages who have lived and died in faith.

Imagine the Christians currently being slaughtered in Nigeria who, if only they were in the right church, their deaths would not be in vain. After all, they are only so-called Christians.

These very simple words from Romans condemn the lying false prophet masquerading as an agent of truth:

"For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites" Romans 16:18 

The comment made the other day from a reader here perfectly describes Bob Thiel and his insatiable appetite for attention:

Bob isn't a COG minister. He's a COG layman who worships COG ministry, and who deeply resents the fact that no COG minister would ordain him into that ministry, so he has invented Gaylon Bonjour's mythical double-blessing and has filled his brain with delusions and dreams of prophethood. His responses are pathetic, but they aren't saddening, they are infuriating, as he seeks to ruin other people's lives by turning them away from Jesus and toward Bob.

 

 

 

Cult Explosion (1980)

 

Cult Explosion looks at religions groups considered by some to be cults include Hare Krishna, the Manson Family, the People's Temple, Scientology, Christian Science, Unity, Worldwide Church of God, Jehovah Witness, the Latter-Day Saints, the Unification Church, and Transcendental Meditation

Oh, Noes!!!!!!!!! Gary Leonard And The Satanic Hoard On This Blog Are Picking On Me! What Ever Shall I do???????????

 

Ghastly days! Whatever shall I do now that the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel has written another screed about me and the reader/commenters on this blog? The world is a terrible place, and this blog is making the Great Bwana's life a living hell. Who knew?

Anyway, the sun is shining brightly here in Southern CA, and life is good, though apparently not so good in Grover Beach, CA, where God's most incredible COG leader to ever walk this green earth channel's dreams and visions from some unknown entity he deems worthy of telling people about. 

The entity fed this hilarious headline into Bob's amazing brain early this morning, "Things Satan does not want you to believe are not believed by all but the Philadelphian remnant"

In his mind, big ol'meanie Satan is on the warpath against him and his perfect little church, the best embodiment of 1st-century Christianity the world has ever seen. The creature he calls "satan" has apparently taken over the minds of everyone on this blog and has directly mind-melded with us to pick on Bobby and his amazing "work".

Satan does not want people to be in the Kingdom of God. He does not want Matthew 24:14 since it will be a countdown for his end. 

 

He wants to dissuade you and others from being in that Kingdom or supporting the most faithful proclamation work. 

 

How does he do that? 

 

Through lies and false witnesses.

This entity he calls "satan" is out to get everyone, including everyone on this blog, though apparently it has already won that battle. At least in his mind's eye.

While you might think you are immune to Satan, remember that the New Testament teaches:

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, (1 Peter 5:8-9) 

 

Satan does not want you to truly have faith in God or His word.

I think the verse he quotes above encapsulates why we do this blog. The Church of God is filled with devouring lions seeking to destroy all they come into contact with through heretical doctrine and outright drivel they deem God-inspired.

Now the fun begins:

...throughout history, God’s true church has been spoken against in many places. Notice confirmation of that as far back as the Book of Acts where the true church is called “this sect”:

22 … concerning this sect, we know that it is spoken against everywhere. (Acts 28:22) 

 

Some of Satan’s allies at Banned by HWA website and other places continue to post lies about those of us in Continuing Church of God (CCOG) as well as other COGs. 

 

Yes, some who claimed to be with us in the old Worldwide Church of God, as well as some who claimed to be with us in the CCOG have turned aside and became false accusers. The Apostle John ran into similar issues as he wrote:

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. (1 John 2:19) 

Bwana Bob does not understand that many of us here"went out" from the lies and falsehoods of heretical doctrines and found true rest in the One that the church claimed it was following. The ministry in the Church of God was a cesspool of bad actors - though I will say there were a lot of good men who tried to do their best over the decades and who were actual agents of grace to church members. Sadly, most of those men were gradually beaten down or driven out by the corrupt leadership over them. There was nothing godly about church leadership.

That is consistent with Satan’s hope as he is called the “accuser of the brethren” which he does do day and night (Revelation 12:10), so it is no great surprise if his lying human assistants spread lies regularly. 

 

If you are not part of a COG (Church of God), Satan hopes you will dismiss the true Christian faith as a false cult–this is something he and his followers have done throughout history.

The true Christian faith is NOT to be found in the misnamed "continuing" Church of God. It isn't there and never will be until Bob Thiel repents of his lies and delusions of grandeur. 

Jesus, Himself, said that people who claimed to believe the Bible often denounced God’s prophets:

11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12) 

Bob, you are NOT a prophet of God. You have never been one and never will be one. That is an immutable fact.  

Notice the following evil that was posted at Banned by HWA:

Bob Thiel has lied to us from day one about God speaking to him in dreams, that he is the only COG doing the work, that he is a prophet, that he is Elisha, Elijah, Zephaniah, Joshua, and many other appropriated personalities (about the only thing left to call himself is Legion). Has Bob ever apologized and will he EVErRapologize for lying to us? 

 

Now the above is false witness from Gary Leonard (the webmaster of the above site and the one who posted that). 

You are gaslighting your naive followers if you deny you have appropriated the names and characteristics of the prophets mentioned above and others where you claim you are the modern-day reincarnation. You are not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence with any of them

Satan hopes you will believe lies. 

 

One of the Ten Commandments is, “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16). 

 

Yet repeatedly, Gary Leonard has borne false witness. 

 

There is no point in me, Bob Thiel, apologizing for telling the truth.

And yet, here you are, doing it once AGAIN! 

The Bible, which the Great Bwana leads us to believe he thoroughly believes in, has this to say about the lying Church of God false leaders and false prophets:

“Beware of the false prophets, [teachers] who come to you dressed as sheep [appearing gentle and innocent], but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Matt 7:15 Amplified Bible

“Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don’t be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned. Matt 7: 15-16 Message Bible

Notice the following gaslighting by how he deviously uses certain words to dance around what he really believes:

The second is that I never said I or the CCOG were the only ones doing the work. What I have said is that the CCOG best represents that Philadelphia remnant and that we are leading the final phase of the work. 

 

Gary Leonard and those who believe his lies need to repent.

Of all the things I may have to repent of, calling you out as a liar and false prophet is NOT one of them and NEVER will be. You are exactly like Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry, who are also proven liars and false prophets.

He continues on trotting out Gaylyn Bonjour as legitimizing his prophethood status by reportedly asking God to give Bob a double blessing and then has this to say:

And that includes what I have written about him, dreams, and the prophet matter. My teaching about what happened is accurate and not false. I have not lied about this. 

 

The Book of Proverbs teaches:

16 The lazy man is wiser in his own eyes

Than seven men who can answer sensibly. (Proverbs 26:16) 

 

Satan hopes that YOU will be lazy and not believe. Satan hopes YOU will not take the time to check out the truth on this. Satan does NOT want YOU to accept that God really has been providing and fulfilling dreams in the 21st century.

John D had this to say about you, Bob Thiel, on the Church of God Perspective blog:

Bob Thiel wants to pick on anyone and everyone in order to justify his own beliefs and vaunted ego. However, the fact is that he is a liar, he does not care for the truth, or accuracy for that matter, and he constantly compares himself to others.

12 We don’t dare class or compare ourselves with some of the people who advertise themselves. In measuring themselves against each other and comparing themselves with each other, they are simply stupid.

~ 2Co 10:12 (CJB)  

 

Bob Thiel Is Still a Liar and False Prophet

John D also had this to say about you:

Lies of the Prophet 

 

I’ve already discussed more than once the big one. If he is a prophet, then what is his message? A prophet, after all, is one who utters or speaks for God. So, let’s see what the message is! Lay out your “prophecies”, Dr Bob, so that those with discernment can see! 

 

All along, his “credentials” have been exaggerations of different events. For example, he makes a big deal of being anointed, but he was anointed for something completely different, even he has admitted before. He makes a big deal of the anointing minister calling for a “double portion” of God’s Spirit. 

 

OK, but so what? If I am anointed for a head cold, can I really take that as a validation of something completely unrelated? Even if the one doing the anointing has no clue about the matter? Does God really work that way? 

 

Well, now he is claiming to be “ordained”. The lid is off, folks! He has clearly crossed the boundary of stepping on the line between truth and fiction and proclaimed a complete lie! 

 

No one has ordained you, Dr. Bob. Get over yourself! 

 

In fact, how many prophets in the Bible were ever ordained? Frankly, I can only think of one, Elisha, who is also the one whom Thiel likes to compare himself with. Even then, it was a prophet ordaining a prophet, not a priest or even a Levite! 

 

There is a good reason for that, in fact. Prophets always came from outside of the system because their primary function was to sound a warning when the system itself broke down. The civil government was supposed to keep the religious order in check, and vice versa. When both failed, God sent prophets to warn and rebuke. 

 

As a consequence, prophets worked outside of the system. They did not break away and create their own country or their own organization for worship. Would You Hire These Liars to Teach Your Children? Some people obviously worship a “god” who approves of liars.

Wallace Smith, a minister in the Living Church of God had this to say about you, Bob:

Perhaps it should be said that I am aware of individuals who claim “dreams” which they hope to convince others are such “special revelations.” Of course, we are to test such things against other criteria and, again, all I have seen continually fall short when they are examined. (That, or the claim is beyond examination, making it unable to be tested.) 

 

As one example, I’ve heard of one who claims that he dreamed God would exalt him above the leaders of the Church when he, supposedly, had no beef against them at that time. Yet, years ago, at the very time this fellow claims he had the dream, this same individual personally expressed to me his beef and his intense frustration that Church leaders and the Council of Elders did not accept his interpretations of prophecy. Such a dream during such days strikes me not so much as prophetic as very, very human. (I should add that I mentioned to him at the time my concern for his attitude about the Church’s leadership, and maybe I could have done more to help him see it. I don’t know.) About that same time Mr. Dibar Apartian warned me over lunch, as did others, that the fellow apparently thought himself a prophet, many years before he left the Church and began claiming to be just that. Again, for such a one such “dreams” of personal glory seem easy to imagine — given simple human nature, it would almost be surprising if there weren’t such dreams accompanying such attitudes and personal ideas. Even ignoring other factors (and, wow, in that case are there “other factors”) that make it all the more clear, I’m sorry but such “revelations” are simply not convincing, and don’t even come close to fitting Mr. Armstrong’s clear, biblically informed definition.  Plain truth about “Prophets” from Herbert W. Armstrong

The very church that Bob Thiel apostatized from knows him to be a false prophet and a liar. That's pretty damning! Even worse for Bob,  Dibar Apartian knew Bob was not a prophet, and yet Bob claims Apartian fully endorsed him as a prophet. Bob continues to be a liar. 

Wallace Smith also says this in another article:

"Other titles have come and gone… Various Self-Appointed Prophets and Luminaries of Imagined & Alternate Realities (L.I.A.R.s) have declared or implied that they have been given the title of or are the prophesied individual Elijah, Elisha, Zerubabbel (son of Shealtiel, though I wonder why one prefers the spelling in the Catholic Douay Rheims: “Salathiel”; interesting, that), Joshua, et al. Maybe you have heard a title I haven’t. If so, I’m not sure I want to know… 

 

That none of these who consider themselves Prophets actually are any of these people or have any right to any sort of title is one thing. But the point of post (which I thought I would never get to!) is that it is yet another technique and not just a personal obsession. Sure, it generally represents a delusionary mindset and an incredible ego, but it also adds a level of “excitement” to the Self-Appointed One’s self-appointed “ministry”: Wow, this is a guy spoken of in the Bible, itself! More importantly, it has the potential to lend an authority to the individual’s words that neither the individual nor the words have earned."

And a little later, this: 

"It is not that there are no titles in the Bible and it is not that the Bible cannot make a claim about an individual in our day. It certainly can and it certainly does. But how terribly badly some lust after being such an individual! In some cases they must search the Scriptures seeking out what they can apply to themselves. In other cases, they simply seem to have an ego and pride that the devil can take advantage of, “helping” them to “see” themselves in God’s own words (and in some cases, in the words of heathen “prophecies,” as well) over time. 

 

It is a useful technique for Non-Prophets because increasing their credibility—being taken seriously—is vitally important to them. However, they have not earned the sort of credibility that justifies their self-declared “Prophet” status. Consequently, they must seek out other sources of credibility that can give them a short cut. For instance, it would be difficult to earn the sort of credibility the Two Witnesses will eventually have when God empowers them (cf. Rev. 11:3). Clearly, Revelation says the Two Witnesses are a couple of fellow who should be listened to." 

 

"Not all Non-Prophets feel the need to take a title on themselves, to be sure (I won’t speak to the temptation they may have to do so, as I do not know) as it takes a really special level of self-delusion (or, on the flip side of the coin, a special level of confidence in one’s powers of con-artistry). Nevertheless, it is a technique that is on display out there in the Parade of Self-Appointed Ones time continues to present to us."  Techniques of Non-Prophets: Got Me a Title!

Bob's hilarious screed continues on about how we mock his dreams and revelations he channels from the entity he follows and then says this:

Those who believe the false assertions at the Banned by HWA website are among those that love and practices lies. 

 

Those who do so should repent. 

 

Jesus taught:

44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5:44-45) 

 

Gary Leonard remains in my prayers.

Anyway, what Satan continues to hope is that you will believe lies, not believe that God actually has sent fulfilled dreams to those in the Continuing Church of God, and that you will not look into the details to see if it is so–like the Bereans of old did in Acts 17:10-11. 

 

If you are not part of CCOG, Satan wants you to stay away from it. 

 

He does not want you to be dedicated or noble enough to see if what is written here (and in the related links) is really true.

Heck, even God wants you to stay away from the improperly named "continuing" Church of God. 

I have no fear of the god that Bob Thiel follows. We will continue to call him out as the liar and false prophet that he is.

Cheers

 

 

 

Brainwashed by Gerald Flurry

 

names deleted to prevent the embarrassment of a complete lack of common sense.

Imagine being this brainwashed...

Dave Pack: Birthday Present…Truth

 

Birthday Present…Truth

David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God dismantled another legacy doctrine of the Worldwide Church of God by sanctioning the celebration of birthdays. While teaching the “present truth” that observing birthdays is not inherently evil after all, the Pastor General shined another spotlight on the rebellion and monumental hypocrisy of Herbert W. Armstrong.

For years, the Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God had not-so-secretly honored his mother by sending her roses on her birthday in direct violation of a doctrinal understanding enforced by lesser “ministurds” for decades. (Thank you for that phrase, Dennis.)

The moral of the story: If you are “low key” about your covert defiance of church doctrines and happen to be highest in the food chain of your dogmatic religious organization, you can get away with just about anything. David C. Pack has fully embraced this “grand pattern” and plans to preserve it until he retires into the grave.

Beginning with “The Greatest Unending Story! (Parts 552 & 553)” on January 11, 2025, Dave eased into dissolving the long-held belief that Jesus Christ was born on the Feast of Trumpets in the fall. It was no coincidence that the discovery of this mystery birthday ties directly into the timing of the 1335 and the Day of the Lord 1290 of the book of Daniel, which ushers the arrival of the Kingdom of God…just over the horizon.

Jesus Christ was born on Abib 1
The 1335 begins on February 12, 2025
Not January 29
The Day of the Lord begins on March 29

What was sin yesterday is righteousness today.

It was a tremendous relief for members who no longer needed to hide their interactions with relatives around birthdays. The guilt from eating a bite of cake or paranoia around being spotted holding a present has been evaporated. Repentance is no longer required after saying “Happy Birthday.”

Birthdays have come to The Restored Church of God.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Dave has grossly misunderstood the 2 Peter 1:12 term “present truth” and uses it as his Get Out of Jail Free Cardwhenever he wants to invoke or revoke an established church doctrine. The way he understood something yesterday is different from today, but both adherences were correct at the time. This invalidates the concept of “error” from church vocabulary.

Dave's technique is to read the same ambiguous verses he taught for decades and reverse the logic to fit his current narrative.

·      None of Job’s children died on a birthday. Only the servants did.

·      Pharaoh killing the baker on his birthday “does not taint” them.

·      John the Baptist's death on Herod's birthday is just incidental.

·      Ecclesiastes 7:1, "the day of death than the day of one's birth," was misunderstood. It does not mean birthdays are inherently evil.

·      Acknowledging a birthday is not the same as observing a pagan custom.

I already knew this, and so did many who cycled through RCG. Regardless of the evidential legitimacy of enforced doctrines, a member must comply, or they are labeled self-willed, arrogant, and rebellious.

The standard ministerial response was:

“Oh, you think you know better than the ministers of Jesus Christ who were ordained and received an extra portion of the Holy Spirit? God opened your eyes and not theirs because you’re so special? God defied His own government structure by revealing to a lay member what He has withheld from the only living apostle?”

As of Part 552…apparently so.

Even when I was a zealous member of The Restored Church of God, I knew their teachings about birthdays being evil were thin and unbiblical. Man, they had to reach. Even the World to Come episode that addressed this was based on inductive reasoning, not clear Bible verses.

RCG has already begun washing their hands of the sin of the sin of birthdays. You will no longer find the four-page article “Are Birthday Celebrations Christian?” once listed on their website, but you can visit the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine to see it in its former glory. Or download a PDF copy HERE.

The 2017 Pillar issue featuring the article “What’s So Bad About Birthdays?” is available for download.

Reading their now-redacted materials with a “birthday present truth” perspective exposes how flimsy some RCG doctrines can be because they were established on human steam, not clear commands of God. The “because I say so” theology lives on.

If there ever was a long-standing doctrine that lacked power and clarity, it was what WCG and RCG taught about God hating birthdays. The rationale in this Real Truth article from 2014 is some of the weakest you will find, yet it was compelled upon members anyway.

_____________________________________________________________________________________ 

Part 552 – January 11, 2025
@ 27:46 Now, that’s a shocking thing to understand. And the thing it does [chuckles] it makes Mr. Armstrong look like he was doing something RIGHT when he honored his mother on her birthday for decades of his life.

The unrecognized implication is that Herbie was knowingly doing something WRONG, and Dave was just fine with that. According to David C. Pack, "The greatest servant I ever knew" was a blatant hypocrite and willful authoritarian who kept his defiance “low key.”

The religious apple does not fall far from the corrupted tree.

Herbert W. Armstrong. Do as I say, not as I do.™

Despite granting liberty to the birthday captives, Dave pled for moderation.

@ 48:39 My purpose is not to spell out what we can do on birthdays. Clearly, were time to go on, I would address that.

@ 48:50 But let’s not have what I call a “pepperoni pizza moment.” …Don’t go, “Oh, boy!” You know, over the next few weeks, please don’t go off half-cocked and do something. You know, throw some big party. Don’t do that. Wait. Show restraint.

Dave wants the brethren to show restraint after decades of damaging experiences with their families around birthdays. Ask anyone freed from RCG about the uncomfortable situations they found themselves in when close family members begged them to be a part of a birthday celebration.

Dave is doctrinal Karate-Do-Yes and Karate-Do-No at the same time. This feels awfully familiar to their New Moon observances, which still have that trumpet making an uncertain sound.

@ 1:38:15 …but it duddn't mean that gifts couldn't be given on birthdays. Or that they should be. So, that’s why I say we gotta be careful.

Countless difficulties were needlessly created because members tried to obey the anti-birthday command that they were force-fed while also trying to counter-balance the perspective they were in a repressive cult. We all walked that narrow line at some point, whether it was attending a party but not eating the cake or standing silently while everyone else gleefully sang, “Happy Birthday.”

This now-defunct doctrine caused grief and pain for children, whether they were members or not. It is heart-wrenching for a parent to explain to their small child that they can only observe an activity but not participate.

My buddy Peter in Canada still gets hot under the collar when you mention the harm of RCG’s birthday doctrine. He is justly angry for what he allowed RCG to put his children through.

Rejecting birthdays sparked tension between spouses. Emotionally separated parents from children. This created an unnecessary resentment towards all religious organizations and resulted in the opposite of “letting your light shine.” Instead of letting our works carry a good name, Christianity was further despised. Thanks a lot, Herbie.

This doctrinal flip-flop will not heal the trauma of generations nor erase the personal horror stories many endured in the name of “obeying God.” According to David C. Pack, all that family suffering was in vain.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Birthdays are now acceptable in The Restored Church of God because determining the day of Jesus Christ's birth is essential to knowing when the 1335 of Daniel would begin 45 days before that.

Abib 1 [1290] begins at sunset on March 29.
Shevat 15 [1335] begins at sunset on February 12.

Dave needed one birthday to matter, so he made it happen.

@ 1:17:20 If that could be the birthday of Christ, you you almost find yourself asking, “Does the Millennium begin on Christ’s birthday? Abib 1 [February 12, 2025]?" I mean, it's starting to look suspicious, but we've gotta prove it.

@ 1:30:55 And when that week [70 Weeks Prophecy] is over, when we get to the next Abib 1 on His Day, which would be kept forever, every year forever, on His Day, the Day of Christ. If you can prove Abib 1, we’re gonna celebrate His birthday every day forever. We won’t call it a birthday party, but it’d be His birthday. So, I mean, we’ll let God tell us what it was.

Part 553 – January 11, 2025
@ 05:49 So, Christmas is a counterfeit birthday. A counterfeit gift giving in the wrong time to the wrong Jesus, by the way. So, it’s fitting that Another Jesus would be born at another time.

Just like David C. Pack is a counterfeit apostle, prophet, teacher, shepherd, and minister.

@ 06:18 So, God says I hate your star. Okay? Now, nothing wrong with a star. God showed a star when when Christ was born. Nothing wrong with a star. “I hate YOUR star.” [chuckles]

Dave slipped into another doctrinal moonwalk without the same fanfare he used to enact it. He taught in 2023 that stars were evil. But today, not so much.

The same weak strategy to promote the evils of birthdays is employed to defuse them.

@ 07:11 So, you can begin to think of things in a certain light, and this is a whole different way of thinking. You’ll begin to work off of these things in your mind. There nothing wrong with this.

@ 21:04 On Abib 1, in this great Day of the Lord, you could have all kinds of people saying, “Happy Birthday and Happy New Year.” Don’t say “Merry Christmas.” [laughs] Okay?

@ 22:24 It’s not Trumpets. We’re trapped in Trumpets. And God know that Herbert Armstrong, this great servant, he did [chuckles] he did what he was supposta do, he had the truths of God right. In fac–in some ways, he was a little ahead of his time because he did what he as he honored his mother and didn’t stand in the way of other people.

When Herbert W. Armstrong played down his hypocrisy, he posthumously exercised premature righteousness, not arrogant stubbornness. Maybe all the members of The Restored Church of God should roll the same dice by picking their least favorite doctrine and putting that philosophy into practice.

@ 22:47 [HWA] Just said keep it low-key. Pretty much everybody [in WCG] did and and and most did nothing at all.

Brethren of The Restored Church of God, please hear your Pastor General. David C. Pack just told you that if you are going to willfully sin, just keep it low-key. That is totally fine.

What a dismal swamp of confused doctrines that spiritually bankrupt organization teaches.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Knowing the birthday of Jesus Christ caused all the mystery pieces to fall into place, and David C. Pack will finally be proven to be a true servant of God on February 12, 2025.

@ 38:01 So, you you’re looking at February 12^th. If there’s some other way, I don’t know how to do it, brethren. I’m I’ve tried my heart out.

@ 38:59 Remember that God puts Elijah in charge, typed by Jeremiah, at the “new year of trees.” Well, guess what? That is the 15^th, the 15^th of Shevat. 15^th of Shevat.

@ 53:15 A Trumpets Day of the Lord, Christ’s birthday in the fall, and the 1335 days that was related to that since they did not see they [WCG] did not see that. Worldwide did not see this First Kingdom. All of that collapsed together now. It’s over.

It is hard to fathom that The Restored Church of God is not yet over. And yet, it still limps along.

During “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 554)” on January 18, 2025, Dave visited the idea of moving The Last Great Day again. In 2023, he attempted “The Last Great Moving Day” by declaring it needed to shift from the fall to the end of the Days of Unleavened Bread. That idea cooled faster than his coffee. 

During Part 554, Dave plucked out that holy day and placed it onto Abib 1 to fit the rest of his theological fantasy because…why not?

Part 554 – January 18, 2025
@ 21:26 So, it makes ya suspicious. Is the Last Great Day gonna shift?

@ 21:43 Is the Last Great Day portable?

"The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 555)" given on January 25, 2025, was a colossal nothingburger. Yawn. As a follow-up, Dave was a no-show on Wednesday’s New Moon despite his assurances he would speak. You cannot trust the words of David C. Pack. He continuously proves that.

The entire church system HWA constructed continues to be an unreliable mess, and David C. Pack persists in championing that filthy banner of malarkey.

Birthdays are now sanctioned in The Restored Church of God, but that is only a present…truth.

Marc Cebrian

See: Birthday Present…Truth