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Walking Fraud Street: David C. Pack’s 10,000 Piece Puzzle of Nothing Beyond

Walking Fraud Street 

David C. Pack’s 10,000 Piece Puzzle of Nothing Beyond 

Around 1927, when a young-in-faith Herbert W. Armstrong discovered Matthew 24:14, he concluded that someone must fulfill that prophecy. Almost sixty years later, that same man was traveling the globe 300 days a year in a private jet, spreading a message of hope that would soon end all wars and strife, and the good news he brought was that there is a way to end poverty, disease, and starvation.

Until his death in January 1986, no one could accuse Herbert W. Armstrong of The Worldwide Church of God of not using “God’s money” to spread a Gospel of the Kingdom of God to a world some viewed as teetering on the edge of collapse.

In November of 2015, Pastor General David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God started his self-described authoritative defining of the Mystery of God and laid the foundation of the complete schematic of God’s plan for all mankind. Those of us attending RCG at that time could only ask ourselves two questions: Where is he going with this, and what will be the conclusion?

In the early days of “The Greatest Story Never Told!” David C. Pack framed his Series as a complicated 10,000-piece puzzle that only he could solve due to his unique background and special training. Apparently, his mother was a very talented puzzle solver, and young Dave quickly picked up the same skills. Becoming masterful at solving complex puzzles would make that person a cognitive genius. 

David C. Pack’s 10,000-piece puzzle presentation was supposed to have all the details of the gospel clearly defined. All the complicated pieces were to fit perfectly together, revealing the complete good news that had been hidden from mankind for ages. Once the world heard and understood this message, they would finally have the words of eternal life.

David C. Pack’s “Greatest Untold Story” was unlike any store-bought puzzle. Puzzles at the store have spectacular photos or artwork on the box, along with a piece count and size to give the potential buyer all the information they need to decide if they want to invest the effort into building that image. They know exactly what the conclusion will be. 

In The Restored Church of God, the Pastor General’s puzzle was a mystery confined behind many successive doors with an astonishing number of locks, all residing in vast darkness. The RCG members give complete allegiance of trust to their Pastor General and thus commit to paying in advance for an unseen, unsubstantiated, overhyped conclusion billed as beyond spectacular.

Through all the darkness, blindness, smoke, mirrors, and criticism over the past ten years, “The Greatest Story Never Told!” has been defended vigorously by David C. Pack as a message about the gospel of God comprising The “who”, the “what”, and “when” of God’s one, two, and three iterations of His Kingdoms. This is not a prophetic piece of work, though it contains many prophecies we have been told to believe.

If the now 10-year long series of “The Greatest Story Never Told!” has reached a conclusion and all the intricate mysteries of the final pieces of the gospel puzzle have been revealed, it is essential to understand how David C. Pack arrived at that conclusion, just as it is equally important for as many people as possible to hear that conclusion if it is true.

In 2009, David C. Pack invented the concept of “open doctrine.” “Open doctrine” is the first step to redefining “present truth.” After a present truth is established, it becomes “official church doctrine,” which demands strict adherence. For RCG members, this is a dead end with no escape. All three steps are melded together and are enacted in real-time all the time. There is no avenue for RCG members to get beyond this. 

Most biblical students would strongly question the gospel being subject to exegesis some two thousand years after reaching maturity in the first century, especially if it is done by a man who believes he is the sole source of biblical interpretation. For David C. Pack, each page of the Bible was waiting for him to excise its words and then piece back together a conclusion that is mind-blowing in its revelation.

David C. Pack has often vehemently framed this revelatory process as originating from the Holy Spirit. Despite the claims of divine origin, it has not been spiritually rosy in the RCG despite the spectacular gardens.

David C. Pack started his Series with approximately 2,500 members and is finishing it with about half that. Which means in his mind, half the virgins were foolish and impatient and went to taste all the world’s delights and have no oil in their lamps anymore. The remaining 1,250 members have slumbered and slept for the past 10 years in their most important guard: “Don’t believe me, believe your Bible.” The complexities of the conclusions that David C. Pack has taught have been a grievous burden upon the RCG membership. But they do know how to follow the feigned words of their slightly held idol, and they have paid handsomely for the privilege to not only know the “who” but the “what” some of the time. And to know the “when” all the time —cough cough—none of the time.

For the weary, longstanding RCG member, “The Greatest Untold Story!” has a conclusion that contains a reward for them. That reward is to stand before eight billion people as a god figure for seven years...maybe? To obtain that reward, the RCG member must check all the boxes in David C. Pack’s works of salvation.

One of those works is paying “Common.” If tithes and offerings are the basis for funding church operations and congregations, then “Common” is David C. Pack’s magnificently conceived, yet unbiblical method for extracting enormous amounts of money for mostly one specific purpose. If you ever wonder what the draw is to line up and cash out, check out just part of this highly polished RCG sales pitch contained in their article titled: COMMON—Paying One Portion of Christ’s Price.

Many millions of people (including wealthy philanthropists) collectively give vast billions of dollars to charitable organizations in an attempt to fix this world. Governments and international organizations invest additional billions to eradicate hunger, poverty, disease, and war. Yet all their efforts ultimately fail. No amount of human ingenuity can solve mankind’s problems.

You can participate in giving the most wonderful gift this world could possibly receive. By supporting the Work of preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God and all other Bible truths in all nations (Matthew 28:19-20), you are helping to bring a message of hope to a world groping about in spiritual darkness (Isaiah 59:9-10)—the sure hope of a better world soon to come, to be established under the reign of Jesus Christ.

What greater calling could there be?

The Work has distributed scores of millions of pieces of literature during the past several years, and many millions of people have visited the Church’s websites. But consider: Earth’s population is beyond 7.6 billion human beings. Think of those who live in your city, town, village, or even your neighborhood—have they heard the true gospel? What about your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, and acquaintances—have they listened to this greatest of news? Realize there is tremendous work to be done. Truly, we (following Jesus’ example) must be about our Father’s business!

Many live unhappy, unfulfilled lives. Some seek answers to their problems and life’s greatest questions. Knowing we can participate in bringing them precious knowledge should excite us to no end, motivating us to do everything we can.

As David C. Pack explained to the Church, Christ’s price involves three elements that Jesus plainly laid out. These are listed in Luke 14 in the context of “counting the cost” of Christianity:

(1) Loving Christ more than anyone, including our own lives: “If any man come to Me, and hate [Greek: love less by comparison] not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple” (vs. 26).

(2) Bearing the burdens/crosses that we face in life: “Whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple” (vs. 27).

(3) Giving our assets to support preaching the gospel. “So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has, he cannot be My disciple” (vs. 33).

You would think that after reading that, you would conclude that the RCG is perfectly in line with what its predecessor did. In the Worldwide Church of God, Herbert W. Armstrong repeatedly reminded the lay membership that the ONLY REASON they were called was to support the work and commission of preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God as a witness unto the world. The difference between the WCG and RCG is that David C. Pack moved past just tithes and offerings supporting the work of God.

“Common” is how a little church does “big things,” according to David C. Pack. Christ has a price, and that is selling all that you have and then giving it to David C. Pack, who then gives “the most wonderful gift this world could possibly receive.” That is the splendid picture we are expected to believe. No one could possibly accuse the RCG of not using “God’s Money” to spread a gospel message of hope throughout the world, right?

David C. Pack has allegedly concluded the 10-year-old series, stating that he absolutely knows God’s plan and the unfolding timeline of the Mystery of God. He has repeatedly claimed God has shown him from the scriptures the date everyone is waiting for. As of October 2025, there have been 135 dates.

David C. Pack has said that Jesus Christ has sworn by God and all things made in heaven and earth that there is time no longer after he finishes making the Mystery of God clear. This is absolute earth-shattering news for a world ready to be harvested and saved from unprecedented evils. Is the Restored Church of God now prepared to take its extraordinary, precious message and wonderful gift unto the world?

Even after escaping corporate debt by selling off residential properties to his members, it has become painfully evident that there is only one truthful answer: NO!

With Restored Church of God mouthpiece extraordinaire Edward L. Winkfield completely contradicting his boss David C. Pack and God himself with his statements to a reporter late this Spring which has all the makings of “legal” postering, Mr. Winkfield emphatically declared that “this (extraordinary date) is (unequivocally) not something the Restored Church of God teaches or that Mr. Pack is claiming.” He continued, “The Restored Church of God is a group which remains hopeful... more than anything definitive, maybe you could go as far as speculating different things, but I wouldn’t take it as anything beyond that.”

Figuratively taking “it” as anything beyond that is precisely what David C. Pack came to conclude. Although the conclusion of David C. Pack’s 10-year, 10,000-piece puzzle constituted a convergence of a “date that cannot tarry” and a “man that would know and reveal that date,” the Pastor General could see no way forward to carry that message anywhere beyond the closed doors of the Restored Church of God. David C. Pack’s prophetic vision of a “thief,” “time no longer,” and a future “marvelous work and wonder” is a three-wheel brake to a prophetic mouth that has not stopped for a decade. David C. Pack’s antipathy to carrying the gospel message beyond anything or anywhere was summed up recently in this statement to the church: it “would fight prophecy” to go against God’s will to try and spread a message of ultimate truth and to grow the Church of the Living Christ. This is the same man who has concluded that setting over 135 false prophetic dates IN GOD’S NAME is not going against God’s will or fighting prophecy.

With Dave Pack singing the Guess Who’s hit song “No Time” as his new excuse, the “who,” the “what,” and “when,” of the gospel sit only as a trophy on a mantle constituting 10 years of answering nothing except for the fact that it is beyond our imagination that one man could so grossly foul up the divinity of Jesus Christ, His true gospel message and the “day and hour” that no man knows.

Comparing the work of David C. Pack to the work of Jesus Christ is a mind-bending exercise. The work of Jesus Christ in the first century AD was an unstoppable juggernaut. Revealing the Father, showing the Kingdom of God, and ushering in salvation had everything and anything any person would ever need or want to see, and all of it was done in the public eye. Filtering David C. Pack through Jesus Christ never paints a pretty picture.

ExRCG.org does this non declaratively and proves that David C. Pack is a blaspheming anti-Christ, false prophet, and false apostle. The contrast is clear: David C. Pack being against Jesus Christ is not an opinion. It has become fact.

If the conclusion of “The Greatest Untold Story!” is the most precious thing the world would ever see or hear and has at its core the complete plan of God—the gospel message of the Kingdom of God, why does David C. Pack want to hide it from the world? Is this not the treasure and “talent” of God that David C. Pack wants to go and dig in the earth and bury in a field (Matthew 25:14-18)? Speaking of treasure, or that other treasure—God’s Money, why is it that recently, on the very precipice of a predicted arrival of the Kingdom of God, did David C. Pack reveal that his longstanding prayer was for the church to be out of debt? No mention of a longstanding prayer for an open door to the world for God’s treasure to be revealed? No simple, longstanding prayer of thy Kingdom come, thy will be done? Instead, he has been bragging about asset conversion and “booming” financial wealth, both of which were initiated and executed in the “last days” in a dark back room and involved putting widows into debt would certainly conflict with John 5:29: “I am the light of the world, whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” Burying the gospel (the light of life) from the public and doing scurrilous real estate deals in the face and advent of Jesus Christ is walking in darkness.

The Church has always taught that the start of Christ’s ministry was when He spoke these words: “The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye and believe the Gospel.” According to David C. Pack, the Opening Night of the Feast of Tabernacles on October 6, 2025, will end the almost two thousand years’ wait for the Kingdom of God to arrive. The Kingdom may be at hand, but hardly a soul has repented because they can’t believe what they haven’t heard—at least from the Restored Church of God.

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 9:37-38: “The harvest is plentiful—pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest that He will send forth laborers into His harvest.” David C. Pack wants you to save your prayers for a future time; his immediate prayer is for a “harvest” of debt relief and financial growth.

Jesus observed in Luke 16:16 that from John the Baptist until the present time, the Kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it. David C. Pack has chosen not to preach the truth of the Kingdom of God, leaving the world ever more pressing into the Devil’s world.

In John 17:2-3, it says: “And this is eternal life, that they may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” David C. Pack has defined and re-defined God and Jesus Christ during the whole ten-year series of messages of The Greatest Untold Story. The world will never hear the true God and Jesus Christ from Dave Pack, because that truth is lost and buried in the thinking of David C. Pack’s mind.

“As thou hast sent me unto the world, even so have I sent them unto the world (John 17:18). I spoke openly to the world (John 18:20) .... for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.” What a beautiful concluding message from Jesus Christ concerning His public ministry and those He trained. David C. Pack came into the world to piece together the most confounding puzzle known to mankind and then kept within his organization the revelation of it, biding his time in a gated community of yes men who eat and drink at a table of lies. Is that the “truth” the world needs to hear?

The Restored Church of God is a real estate organization doing business in God’s name. It is led by a faithless man using false pretenses and coercion to alter people’s lives. It operates as a temple money changer—exchanging “all” for practically nothing in return. “God’s Money” has been squandered down a giant 10-year-long rat hole. The treasure of God’s true Gospel message is purposely hidden in the depths of Hades, just as David C. Pack has hidden the savior of the world as a silent 5’6” olive-skinned Middle Eastern man in the back dark room of the Temple of God. David C. Pack’s message of strong financial standing is now front and center, while the name of God and Jesus Christ and their extraordinary Gospel message are purposely hidden from the world.

The poor RCG membership never could fully understand the complexity of David C. Pack’s message. They were always buried in papers, timelines, metrics, days, weeks, months, full moons, moeds, rushing, running, absolutes, impossibilities, inarguable suppositions, all while under pressure to pay for their very lives.

God’s will is not being done in the RCG, and Jesus Christ is aghast at the conduct of its leader. The real thief breaking up people’s houses has been exposed. The confounding non-action of one part of the conclusion of “The Greatest Non-Story Ever Told!” is just as concerning as what was revealed in most of the rest of the Series.

A Series that became a bait and switch sham show that always interchanged one error for another error to come to some new and improved assumed truth. A Series that included a scheme to manipulate and coerce the RCG membership into paying “God’s money” for a purpose that David C. Pack either doesn’t or poorly and passively executes. The only real conclusion of “The Greatest Untold Story!” is that David C. Pack stands alone above and apart from all of God, the RCG membership, and the world. David C. Pack enlightened and enlivened himself as the only person indispensable in the Bible and the mediator of 8 billion people’s path to salvation. He satisfied all the desires of his soul by in part shaking sown widows to resolve his longstanding prayer. He rode the real estate market up and cashed out to make himself strong financially. He successfully baited his membership into funding a lifestyle that he himself forbids them to have. He operates with no patience and is faithless in all his actions, while always demanding both from his membership. He embraces hypocrisy like it is a requirement to run and lead a church organization, yet his membership would never come close to such conduct.

In the end, David C. Pack’s 10-year 10,000-piece puzzle was nothing but a self-promotion exercise. The world received nothing. The RCG membership paid an excessive price to have all their expectations continually crushed. There are 10,000 proofs, 10,000 examples, and 10,000 reasons why David C. Pack failed to discern and deliver the most critical piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, there are far too many men and women lost in the confines of the other 9999 pieces of the puzzle to even know or care.

The now conclusion of the decade-long “The Greatest Untold Story!” gave us the final picture and evidence that each of David C. Pack’s three revealed mysteries of the gospel and the implied fulfillments of each, present a vast gulf between what was stated and what was realized. The potential for David C. Pack’s 10,000-piece puzzle to be one big giant fraud is real. David C. Pack concluded that the “who” at the very end almost entirely revolved around himself. The “what” was a multi-million-dollar financial exchange for a promissory action that, at the end, was deemed undeliverable! The “when” has been framed as unassailable 135 times, but technically and legally, it was always just “hopeful speculation.” If it looks like fraud and it sounds like fraud and it walks like fraud—it is fraud!

Scott Steel/former RCG member

Samuel Kitchen: "Jesus Christ came in the flesh of Herbert W Armstrong"

New revelations by Samuel Kitchen:

1) Jesus came in the flesh of Herbert Armstrong:

 

Jesus Christ came in the flesh of Herbert W Armstrong. That is, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Christ worked in and through His servant and His apostle, Mr Herbert W Armstrong. 

 

To teach people, that Christ is not in Herbert W Armstrong, and that the Worldwide Church of God is NOT the spiritual body of Christ, is the spirit of Antichrist, and not the Holy Spirit. 

2) You cannot enter the Kingdom of God without following Herbert Armstrong's teachings:

"Everything we have received through the servant of the Lord, the apostle of Jesus Christ, Mr. Herbert W Armstrong, is FOR OUR PREPARATION. We cannot MARRY Jesus Christ, no can we enter the Kingdom of God without such PREPARATION!"

"So what we have received from Christ through Mr Armstrong, is necessary for our current TRAINING, QUALIFICATION, and PREPARATION as the Bride of Jesus Christ and to ENTER the Kingdom of God. If we neglect this preparation, we will NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD!"

"A wrong attitude, and refusal to obey God, and refusal to apply the instruction given through the apostle, will leave you UNPREPARED for the Kingdom! And if you can’t enter the Kingdom, you wont go to a place of safety!

The promises and protection of God come to those INSIDE THE INNER COURT. They are going through their preparation!

So it BEHOOVES YOU TO PAY HEED! To repent, and BELIEVE! To be PREPARED! "

 

Commercial Break/Feast Edition:

 

 The Chronological Order of the New Testament and why it matters. 

Compositional Order

https://conciliarpost.com/theology-spirituality/the-new-testament-in-order/

A final way to think about the ordering of the New Testament is in the order in which these documents were written.

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Personal Note and Reminder: Why it matters is because it shows that the Pauline Jesus was first Cosmic and Hallucinatory in nature to Paul. The Gospels to follow after Paul put Paul's Christ into a historical setting. 

As we know, Paul never met Gospel Jesus nor quotes him. No sayings of Jesus. No miracles recounted and no tales of how he, as a Pharisee in Jerusalem, tormented Jesus with the others. 

This seems odd to scholars if Paul was indeed a Pharisee of the Pharisees in Jerusalem at the time of the stories of Jesus in the Gospels. The Gospel writers never heard of any Apostle Paul or Saul of Tarsus

This is because the story of Gospel Jesus had not yet been brought down to Earth in the stories of the Gospels in Paul's lifetime. Paul's Jesus, or Christ was revelatory. Jesus talked to Paul and Paul heard Jesus in his mind.

Galatians 1:11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:6 As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message.

 Paul never heard of the stories, teachings or drama of Jesus life and death in the Gospels)

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At first, you might imagine that this would parallel the chronological ordering, but that’s not quite correct.

Most scholars believe that either 1 Thessalonians, Galatians, or James was the first New Testament document written, all of which speak to events chronologically later than the Gospels.

This is largely due to the fact that the Gospels are not media reports or live tweets about Jesus: they are literary biographies, composed by followers of Jesus to tell the story of Jesus as the first generation of Christians got older.

The order in which the writings of the New Testament were composed is a topic of much scholarly debate. On the one hand, many contemporary scholars push the writing of certain documents well into the second century and speak extensively about anonymous and pseudonymous authorship of certain writings.

On the other hand, there are plenty of scholars who advocate for much earlier (and more traditional) datings, with some scholars even suggesting that the contents of the New Testament were written before the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple by Rome in 70 CE.9

Consider Marcus Borg’s listing of the New Testament books in the order they were written in The Evolution of the Word (including his likely dates10):

• 1 Thessalonians (50 CE)
• Galatians (50 CE)
• 1 Corinthians (50 CE)
• Philemon (mid-50s CE)
• Philippians (mid-50s CE)
• 2 Corinthians (mid-50s)
• Romans (58 CE)
• Mark (70 CE)
• James (70-80 CE)
• Colossians (80s CE)
• Matthew (80-90 CE)
• Hebrews (80-90 CE)
• John (90 CE)
• Ephesians (90s CE)
• Revelation (90s CE)
• Jude (90s CE)
• 1 John (100 CE)
• 2 John (100 CE)
• 3 John (100 CE)
• Luke (100 CE)
• Acts (100 CE)
• 2 Thessalonians (100 CE)
• 1 Peter (100 CE)
• 1 Timothy (100-110 CE)
• 2 Timothy (100-110 CE)
• Titus (100-110 CE)
• 2 Peter (120-150 CE)

==================

Bonus 

Scholars normally break down the 13 Pauline letters as follows:

              Undisputed letters of Paul: Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, Philemon.

These seven letters are normally thought to be written by Paul. That is why they are called “undisputed” letters.

2. Disputed letters of Paul: Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus.

There is no scholarly consensus on whether these six letters are actually penned by Paul. That is why they are called “disputed” letters. Others use the term Deutero-Pauline to describe them, a sort of “second” canon of letters that are questionably attributed to Paul.

In this short post, we cannot go into the reasons why each of these letters are rejected by some, questioned by others, and accepted as Paul by yet other scholars.

Such inquiries of authorship developed from the Enlightenment period when biblical writings started to be critically examined. This took place through the process of reasoning rather than letting religious dogma of previous generations decide the issue.

Great overview for those so inclined

https://www.bartehrman.com/pauline-epistles/

 

Crackpot Prophet: Modern Day Zerubbabel And One Of The Two Witless Witnesses?

As Armstrongism spirals ever more comically down the drain, flushing away into irrelevance like yesterday's bad prophecy, it hasn't deterred our beloved cadre of resident loons from spewing absurd and outlandish statements that could make a carnival barker blush. The wilder and more unhinged they get, the more they puff up their chests, convinced they're the sole divine mouthpieces on this spinning rock—because, obviously, God couldn't possibly have better options.

Tragically—or hilariously, depending on your tolerance for farce—the church has been a magnet for a nonstop parade of raving lunatics over the decades, from the sign-waving protesters and picketers turning WCG headquarters into a sideshow, to those self-anointed messiahs (mostly men, with a sprinkling of women for diversity) who fancy themselves God's exclusive spokesmodels. That's precisely how the likes of Ron Weinland, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, and the inimitable Bob Thiel bootstrapped their pint-sized personality cults. The more batshit bonkers their proclamations, the more they lured in that tiny flock of lost souls wandering the wilderness of confusion. These poor folks had their identities yanked out from under them in the so-called Great Apostasy, desperately grasping for any crumb of "truth" to nibble on—and lo, these charismatic crackpots whispered (or shouted) exactly the right mix of delusion to hook 'em.

The more prophetic gibberish and doomsday drivel they barf out, the tighter it grips those identity-starved wanderers like a cheap thriller novel.

This obsession with end-times claptrap manufactures a faux urgency and purpose, perfect for reeling in the perpetually panicked about world events—because nothing says "spiritual enlightenment" like doom-scrolling the apocalypse. Weinland's apocalyptic rants about impending catastrophe followed by a shiny "better world" (any day now, folks!) paint his outfit as the ultimate survival raft in a sea of sinners. Flurry and his ilk shoehorn today's headlines into biblical fanfic through rags like The Trumpet magazine, turning every geopolitical hiccup into "proof" of prophecy. It's a masterclass in exploiting fears of Big Bad Persecution or societal meltdown, all while the leaders wield it like a remote control to dictate behavior and hoard power. On the psychological front, devotees often succumb to "abdication syndrome," gleefully outsourcing their life choices to the guru for that warm, fuzzy blanket of false security. And why question the flops? The cult playbook conveniently labels any dissent as satanic sabotage or holy persecution—genius, really, if you're into self-preserving scams.

And then there's Bob Thiel, the undisputed king of self-aggrandizing cosplay, who's appointed himself to more biblical roles than there are pages in the Good Book itself—yet somehow, the humility deficit never slows him down. Today, he's channeling the Two Witnesses, because why not add apocalyptic tag-team partners to his resume? Shocking precisely no one, we all know where this ego parade is headed: straight into another round of prophetic face-plants, with Thiel emerging unscathed in his own mind, ready to claim the next divine title on the clearance rack.

After whining incessantly about an article from Gerald Flurry about the identity of the Two Witnesses, and how, since Herbert Armstrong had died, he was not the end-time Zerubbabel or one of the two witnesses, celestial Bob has this to say:

Since Herbert Armstrong died, he obviously was not one of the two witnesses, and his reference to those two identified in Haggai and Zechariah is a reference to an end time Zerubbabel and Joshua. Thus, based upon his own writings, Herbert Armstrong was not Zerubbabel. But he pointed to someone from the 20th century who would be:

Hum, I wonder who THAT could be?????  The rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper:

Since Christ is the foundation, the chief cornerstone (Matthew 21:43; Ephesians 2:20) of the Christian temple (1 Corinthians 3:16), some have suggested that “Zerubbabel” may have been a type of Christ–especially since Jesus is specifically prophesied to return (Revelation 17:14) and destroy the kingdom of the Gentiles (Revelation 11:15; Haggai 2:21-23). 

 

Yet, since “Zerubbabel” saw the original temple and is not recorded as laying its foundation (and really, he could not have as he had not been born then), then it appears that perhaps “Zerubbabel” would seem to be some individual who is prophesied to rise up in the last days–and that is what Herbert Armstrong believed scripture required. If so, he would have likely been someone who saw the old Ambassador Auditorium and WCG work, and perhaps helped lay the foundation for the final phase of the Philadelphia work.  Zerubbabel would not be a ‘newcomer’ as some suggested that both of the two witnesses might be.

And, deeper downit goes:

As far as names go, Zerubbabel means descendant of, or born of, Babylon (OT:2216; Zerubbabel. Biblesoft’s New Exhaustive Strong’s Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary) or “stranger at Babylon.” Thus, it could be that the prophesied Zerubbabel may have been born into a family that was part of the religion that will support the final Mystery Babylon of Revelation 17:5 (like one based out of the city of seven hills–Revelation 17:18). Because of the meaning of the name ‘Zerubbabel,’ it would seem that it is not a direct reference to Jesus, as some have suggested, since He was not born of Babylon and His human parents were not Babylonians. 

Notice the problem with that other personage of the two witnesses...he was too stupid to support the Continuing Church of God in the past, and that God had to "push him" to acknowledge the way and the truth that only exists in the CCOG.

Joshua, Yehowshu`a, seems to mean “Jehovah saves” (Ibid, OT: 3091). This Joshua’s father’s name was Josedech (Haggai 1:12), meaning “Jehovah-righted” (OT:3087 ). Perhaps his father was called out of religious Babylon to be a true Church of God Christian? Anyway, since Zechariah 3:3-5 shows that for a time Joshua wears “filthy garments,” it may be that he affiliated too long with Laodiceans, who need to put on “white garments” (Revelation 3:14-18)–hence maybe that means it took him time before he completely would support the Continuing Church of God and that God (Jehovah/Yahweh) had to push him to the right way. 

 

Perhaps the names Zerubbabel and Joshua indicate that one of the witnesses was born into a Roman Catholic family (and later was called and converted to be part of the Church of God) while the other was born into a Church of God family and remained part of the Church of God. Since Joshua was a high priest, he would have had to be born in a family keeping the biblical faith.

Zerubbabel ends with this:

So who are the two witnesses? 

 

1. The two witnesses are humans that God will give special power to. 

 

2. They are true prophets of God. 

 

3. They provide testimony of the truth about God and the return of Jesus Christ to the earth. 

 

4. Just like John the Baptist was really not Elijah, but came in the Spirit and Power of Elijah, so the two witnesses may come in the Spirit and Power of Moses and Elijah. 

 

5. They may be a type of Zerubbabel and Joshua, and these men may have been born into Roman Catholic and Church of God families respectively. 

 

6. They will have been in the true, and apparently most faithful, continuations of the Church of God. 

 

7. They will hold Church of God doctrines like the Sabbath, the Godhead, the return of Jesus and the millennium, the history of the true church, etc.

 

8. Contrary to the claims of some, God has not yet clearly revealed their identities to the general public. 

 

9. Those who support the semi-Catholic beast power (he will claim to be ‘Catholic,’ but will ultimately betray the Church of Rome) will apparently think that the two witnesses are false prophets, with one of them considered to be the false prophet of the Book of Revelation. 

 

10. The two witnesses will apparently wear some black (clothing or something else) and/or sackcloth. According to certain Greco-Roman Catholic prophecies, one who is “black” (opposed to their church) and looks like a Jew (apparently meaning having original Church of God practices) will be one of the two that cause that church problems at the end. 

 

11. The two witnesses are two who will accomplish the mission that God gives them. 

 

12. The two witnesses will keep and teach the Ten Commandments, whereas false prophets and the coming Beast of the sea will actually violate them all. 

 

Jesus warned that false prophets will arise and do miracles. Those who are waiting for Enoch and Elijah to literally come from Paradise to the earth, before they will accept God’s true witnesses, are deceiving themselves. The vast majority of human beings will be deceived (Matthew 24:24; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12). But you do not have to be. 

 

The two witnesses will be killed and there are non-biblical prophecies that others may rely on to support killing them. 

 

The two witnesses are most likely alive now, and God will raise them up probably in the relatively near future. The two witnesses will more successfully proclaim the gospel of the kingdom of God. 

 

Those who do not wish to be deceived need to repent and believe the gospel now, as later it may be too late.

I can state, beyond a shadow of doubt, that Bob Thiel is NOT a modern-day Zerubbabel or that he will be one of the two witnesses, or that he is even a true Church of God leader.

We all know where this is ultimately headed:

...straight into another round of prophetic face-plants, with Thiel emerging unscathed in his own mind, ready to claim the next divine title on the clearance rack.