"Well, the Bible Says...."
We all did it. I
certainly did as a pastor. Most still do. Whenever a question came
up in the Church (or even in our culture and government ) concerning
policies, attitudes, practices, prohibitions, situations, ideas, events and a
myriad of other things can come up in life to want "answers" to, "Well,
the Bible says," was the only game in town. Smoking, drinking,
eating, not eating, having, not having, doing, not doing, being, not being,
makeup, paleface, anoint me, cut me, pray about it, do something about it, wear
it, ditch it, think it, stop thinking it, eat it, avoid it, be there, stay
home, "Well, the Bible says....."
I'm going to push the
envelope a bit here for the average fundamentalist COG thinker by getting to
the point and then giving some examples of why sometimes if not often times now
thousands of years later, "Who cares what the Bible says," might be
just as good an answer to the gazillions of questions people can ask others to
answer for them. In reality and from my own experience I know full well
that a principle I learned long ago when dealing with questions as a pastor for
"Headquarters" on all of the above kinds of topics kept me sane for a
very long time. It also kept me from many stupid answers that one would
later regret giving. I guess that sounds like the sanity has
ended...lol. Maybe it has!
In practical fact there
has to be a better perspective to adopt on many questions that groups seem to
need to have group answers to. An answer that has some give to it and
won't leave you down the road wondering why you always do what you are told
instead of what you actually thought was right.
There is....
"Ask and you shall not have. Do not ask...And all
things are possible."
In the good old days of
"To be played in all the churches," I had decisions to make.
The reason to play them was not so much that they were interesting and helpful
as they were meant to keep the local church HQ oriented. I leaned not to
ask "do I have to play them?" (See the above quote.
I had a church to pastor and there were just too many of these showing up in my
mail. I listened to them myself and picked the ones that I thought were
actually helpful at the time.)
I recall a
very fine member in Kentucky, who owned a grocery store, asking me if he
had to de leaven his store for Days of UB. This was a no brainer for me
at least and I told him no. It is merely an object lesson for the home so don't
worry about it. It's your living. This in contrast to earlier years
when I helped a member close his bakery for the week, take apart the ovens and
be sure it was "clean and without sin." I was 22 and thought
back then that this was over kill but what did I know. I was told to help
him. At any rate, I suspected the store owner asked because he had
been given other orders and he had. The ministerial assistant to me
, now a COG pastor, told him to close the store and clean out the leavened
products. When the mini ass found out I reversed him he went to Joe Tkach
Sr. who told him to tell the man to close it and de leaven. He came back
to me with the news. I told him , "Don't you dare close
it." He didn't and nothing ever came of it.
I am sure there was a
lot of twisting and proof texting to make the Bible say he had to close it ,
but I had my own twists and texts to undo those. I personally in
reality and in hind sight did not care what the Bible said about Israel in
Eqypt 3000 years ago. (I have since come to believe the literal events of
the Exodus did not actually occur as presented in the Bible, so using a myth to
make literal rules is even more ridiculous. Ranks right up there with
women being quiet in the church and obeying husbands because "Eve sinned
and not the man..." Um....no. She really didn't in
time and space.)
I recall being
told , and I'll shorten the whole story, that because a couple of kids
fornicated at a YOU dance somewhere in Timbuktu, YOU dances were out for a
time. Ah ha ha ha. Not in my world. We had the best proms and
dances in Kentucky and kids came from everywhere . We may have had some
fornicators somewhere, who knows...but don't touch this dance.
I quietly ignored the decree and the beat went on. I knew
better than to ask if we could continue our dances and proms because
of our success etc. I simply did not ask and we went about our
local business.
I visited a most awesome
Native American male who expressed interest in Church but who also had jet
black hair to his waist. He was 100% pure American male of a culture I'd
be proud to be related to. "Doesn't nature tell you (really?
in what way?) that it is a shame for a man to have long
hair...." It never crossed my mind to ask him to apply that
scripture to his life if he wanted to come to church. I'd kill to look
like him He never came to church, but I imagine I would have
heard plenty of "But the Bible says...." which I would not have been
in the mood for. I knew male lions had long manes and female lions had
none so that was enough of what nature needed to tell me. I have never
figured out what the Apostle Paul meant but I may as well add, "who cares
what the Apostle Paul thought about this topic." (Or marriage,
women, children and who he thought he was for that matter.)
"Go ahead...tell me I look like a woman.
You'll take it back as I eat your heart."
Bob Thiel keeps trying
ever so hard to get people to believe him that God is pissed and weather is how
he "tries" to get our attention. Of course he can quote a
hundred OT scriptures on the Bronze Age view of wind, rain and fire to back him
up, but this truly is a case thousands of years of later for "who cares
what the Bible says. And yes we do know where the treasuries of the snow
are and how a cow gives birth to a calf. We also know about the Zodiac
and how the sun moves through it. (the Mazzaroth as Job calls it) We even
know where the wind comes from these days and why. The pagan nasty
god Baal, the storm god has been demoted to a low pressure system. Who
cares what the Bible says on this stuff. There really aren't four corners
to the earth and it doesn't really stand on pillars.
And of course, we now
have Apostle Dave Pack taking the brethren , and agonizingly slowly, through a
book most Christians never even read , Haggai explaining with a straight face
that the whole book is talking about him . This is one case where you
REALLY need to not care what Dave says the Bible says. First of all ,
Haggai is not about David C Pack and secondly, Haggai is not about David
C Pack. It is truly one of the pathetic ministerial blunders in making
the Bible mean what it never meant in recent theological history. The
fall from this foolishness will be great. But when all else fails...who
cares what Haggai says. It was not and is not meant for or
about Dave Pack or the Restored Church of God along with all the splinters
who Dave says will come to him. He also thinks the ministry that won't
come will die and three biggies will die all the same day. Haggai says
that but it is not about three WCG/UCG/LCG/PKG/PCG/ or LMNOP COGs. Houses
aren't splinters and the tithe money going to all of them doesn't really belong
to Dave. Stupid is as stupid does says Forrest.
James Malm is an expert
in his own mind on "the Bible says," but truly an even better example
of why what the Bible says is irrelevant to real lives. That man can make
a wedding a miserable experience and I can't think of a less inspiring festival
site to go to or sermons to live through than his. Of course, he is self
appointed which has risen to an art form in the COG experience.
Bob Thiel is not really
a prophet. Gerald Flurry is not really "that Prophet," or any
other. James Malm is not really educated enough in theology to tell
anyone what the Bible says much less means and of course, Apostle Pack is also
self appointed and soon to up the ante with his brain dead congregations
convincing them he is "Joshua the High Priest" for today. He is
not. Did I say who cares what Dave thinks Haggai said? Evidently
Dave is having a difficult time trying to figure out in what way he has to
remove his "filthy rags" as Joshua. The man can't think of any
major sins he has to be cleansed of. Like Rod Meredith, who "never
committed a major sin in his life that I know of...", Dave is
struggling. He thinks his big sin is not having started RCG
sooner and staying with the splinters too long. No really...that's what
he came up with. Or say they say.
"I just listened to Apostle Pack explain the Bible to me."
I don't think there is a
people on earth who know what the Bible says and where to find it than COG
members. We all soaked in. I grew up in a Calvinistic Dutch
Reformed world where as a child of 6 and 7 had to memorize whole chapters and
story lines long before finding WCG. It was just what we did. Christians
today don't care what the Koran says or what Allah thinks yet both are very
very similar to what our OT says and what YHVH thinks. "God's
law" is not all that different from Sharia Law as they were both birthed
from the same cultures.
Playing "well, the
Bible says," can be informative perhaps. There are some
inspiring and helpful things in the Bible. There is also a lot of nasty
stuff that one should not take too seriously today. It can give a degree
of background and perspective, but one really needs to be careful of letting
others who claim special insights and callings filter it through their rather
addled thinking. Dave Pack will tell anyone it's NOT about the numbers
and then agonize over spending all this money on advertising, TV and
publications to only get a "trickle, trickle, trickle" of responses
and new members. Gosh..I know about as many people he's kicked out or
driven away as who have joined him. Of course it is about the
numbers. Without the words "remnant" and "a little
flock," in the Bible, there would nothing to bail you out of failure to go
ye therefore into all the world and make disciples of all men. I'll think
for myself thanks.
Lighten up COGers.
Stop having your minister read you the Bible like it was a newspaper or the the
Journal of Medicine. Ezekiel Bread is ok if you like your food to
be Bible food. But it really was designed for famines and made with
ingredients poor folk can afford in famines according to reality but that is
not reflected in the current price today. They also forget one ingredient
or way it needs to be prepared. YHVH did make an allowance for Ezekiel
and allowed him to switch to cow poop. If you are going to quote the
Bible and claim your bread is authentic Bible made, don't leave anything out.
After all..."The Bible Says...."
I believe I understand the mind of the typical COG member and I know
I understand most minds in the ministry. I do understand Dave and
Gerald's minds but this is not because I find it in the Bible. I see them
more spoken of in the DSM. Of course I also see Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
and a few of the NT characters, Disciples and Apostles in the DSM as well but
that is just me. I see me in the DSM a times if that helps you define
me.
Don't agonize over the
compulsive need by your minister or other members to answer every question in
life with "Well, the Bible says...." It often doesn't say
anything about it no matter how well you twist it, or you can twist it, or it
might actually say something which still is irrelevant to today or your current
need for an answer.
One last example for fun
and then I'll duck for cover.
I sat in on a refresher
where we thought we were going to cover one topic and the leader of that
session changed and said he had been told to cover another and come up with an
answer. Ok, here goes. Here is what he said.
"I have been asked
to discuss and come to a conclusion for the church as to the answer to the
question, "Is oral sex permissible for the Christian?"
"You're not really gonna give an Official Answer are
you?"
The leader of the
session then went on to say that "I personally find the topic to be
distasteful...."
"Did I
just hear him say what I thought he said?"
Well we all fell out
dying on the floor. He could not get the audience back in control and
finally a minister who was way in the back stood up flailing his arms and
yelling "stop!!!! so not answer that question! You'll
lose the whole French Church.!!!!" We fell out again and the meeting was
dismissed. First of all , who really cares what the Bible says BUT,
a good pass with imagination through the Song of Solomon could give an answer
that wasn't what some may be going for in a church setting.
I suggest when someone
tries to force what they think the Bible says on just about everything on you
with an expectation of compliance and you simply don't agree, doubt or don't
care for the answer , learn to say "I'll take it under
advisement." That was my dad's line to both doctors who wanted to
put him on yet more and more meds and a time or two to Dave Pack who expected
compliance with which Dad was not interested or unable to give.
Dad always told of the
Spokesman club where Mere Minister Pack was chiding the men for not learning
their scripture cards. Dad raised his hand and said, "Mr.
Pack, these men work all week and have other things to do
and don't have the time you have to learn all these scriptures from
memory. But they do know where to find them." Minister
Dave said, "I'll talk to you in the hall at the break Mr. Diehl."
Dad never showed up for the chat and nothing came of it. If it had...I
would love to have heard the rest of that story!
"Ask and you shall not have. Do not
ask...and all things are possible."
(until the minister or church catches up with
you)
....Because when it comes to the Bible, which is a Bronze Age and
at best Roman/Greek document written by many more humans of many more
persuasions than those listed, and the Ministry of any church, it depends
who you ask, what they personally believe and how they read their
own Bible and divine its meaning. It may have
nothing to actually do with reality in the mind of any Deity.
And remember: While Paul demands the Church all speaks the
same thing, it is not possible in any real group of over 2 or 3 human
beings. That's what one says when they really mean. "We must
all speak the same as I say."
and...
"Because I said so..."
"Because I am the man..."
"Because my council agreed with me..."
"Because Moses said..."
(Abraham said, David said, Solomon said, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
said, or Haggai and Zephaniah said," )
"Because Gerald Flurry, Rod Meredith, Dave Pack
said,"
or even
"Well, the Bible says...."
...doesn't always matter either, believe it or not.
Never let ANYONE tell you how you're supposed to look
or how
you're supposed to live your life.
It's YOUR LIFE so think for
yourself."
Sonya Parker
Trust yourself. Think for yourself. Act for yourself.
Speak for
yourself. Be yourself.
Marva Collins
“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness,
truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.
Christopher Hitchens
(Closing statement of the
debate with William Dembski
at Prestonwood Baptist Church, Plano, Texas,
November 18, 2010)”
contact Dennis at: denniscdiehl@AOL.com
