When Your Minister is Goodfellow Joe Pesci

I believe we have all learned much over the years about the bullies of narcissism in high places.  Most people don't have the time and don't run across such personality disorders in their lives but they infest the office, the government and religious organizations.  Narcissists, defined below and it should give members and ministers in some of the more bizzaro Church of God Slivers pause if you have never considered just what may actually be going on over your head.  While it is not our or my place to diagnose a clinical narcissist, one can observe and compare the common traits and draw their own conclusions about what exactly may be the fuel driving the engine of ministry gone amuck.

Joe Pesci in his Goodfellows role is an extreme example of the problem.  Truly one of the more tension filled movie characters ever created.  When he entered the room, he was the room.  When he spoke, everyone listened or else,. When he got angry, someone died.

Here is what some splinters are dealing with and it is goes all the way back to WCG and some of the men who also rose to the "top" of ministry and never could either take counsel or resist dis-membering those who got in their way.  It is also very possible that some of our more energetic and not to be toyed with Biblical characters also suffered from such personality disorders which was viewed back then as both a form of better contact with God and obedience to the voices in their heads. I personally believe the Apostle Paul suffered from some form of personality disorder or mental illness such as schizophrenia or temporal lobe epilepsy depending on who you read.  It is possible as well he was a repressed gay man in a culture where you simply never let on and did not practice it. Many of Paul's self deprecating statements and confessions of not being able to do what he should and stop doing what he should not do, along with an undefined thorn in the flesh could lead to this kind of conclusion.  He wants to say something but never quite does.

While not unknown qualities listed from time to time on the Banned HWA site, here is another reminder of the behaviors common to bullying adults and narcissists.

The following is the most comprehensive list of narcissistic and bullying traits available and covers just about everything one would run into when dealing with this type of human being.  Of course there are reasons why people become this way but our first concern here is that when they become adults and when they place themselves, usually at the expense of others and climbing on the bodies of those who got in their way, YOU need to know it when you see it to protect yourself and your loved ones.  These men and women can hide VERY WELL in MINISTRY.  Where in a business or government setting these folk are openly known as people not to be toyed with in their lofty positions, in MINISTRY their quirky and bullying ways SEEM like a form of OBEDIENCE to the "Laws of God" and a DRIVE that is Spirit lead by that God to to the WORK of a God. 

Frankly they seem like a lot of Biblical characters and that has to be good right?

I know these traits will sound very familiar in their reality in some of the more drama ridden and one man run Churches of God Slivers.

(From:  MOST COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF TRAITS OF NARCISSISTS (and other unsafe people like them):

✦    A sense of superiority places them above others
✦    Must be the center of attention, constantly seeking approval, acknowledgment, kudos, accolades, praise
✦    Act like they are the lead character in all things in life
✦    Dominate conversations because they believe they have the only worthwhile things to say
✦    Want others to give into their demands, request for favors, and put their needs first
✦    Have inflated egos, inflated sense of entitlement, inflated sense of importance, inflated need to be center stage
✦    Envious of other people’s accomplishments and will steal, lie, or sabotage others to get attention back to them
✦    Envious of other people’s possessions, they will put such ownership down or minimize it to make themselves look more noble
✦    Search for constant approval and praise to reinforce their false grandiose sense of self, they’re “on- stage,” dominating the conversation, often exaggerating their importance
✦    (Since the self is so fragile — an ever crumbling construction of their ego) — use power, money, status, looks, supposed past glories (or supposed future glories) to boost their image
✦    See criticism as baseless attacks or betrayal and countered with cold-shoulder anger or rage or chilly stares or verbal attack.
✦    Can never accept blame. Others are always to blame.
✦    Feel being center of attention is good, right, and proper
✦    Have a grandiose sense of self-importance
✦   Think they are special, God-touched, or privileged
✦    Think they can only be understood by other special or high-status people
✦    Have unreasonable expectation of favorable treatment
✦    Believe they are beyond the rules. Laws do not apply to them and remorse is only felt when someone catches and confronts them.

However they are upset over any inconveniences they suffer as a result of being busted. They believe they have the right to do what ever it takes to get short term gratification without suffering any consequences.” ~Lynne Namka

TYPICAL WAYS OPERATING OR REACTIONS (blaming, drama storms, etc.)

✦    High maintenance because they need your attention, praise, and deference
✦    Fake sweetness, honor, and good intentions, but deprive them of something they want and look out as they reveal their true selves.
✦    Express grand, exciting plans, but rarely can make them happen
✦    Blame others rather than take personal responsibility
✦    Lack of empathy colors everything they do.
✦    May say, “How are you?” when you meet, but they are not interested
✦    Their blame-shifting creates defensiveness. Then they belittle the defensiveness: “Why are you so angry?”
✦    Since they shift blame so well & seamlessly, your guilt/insecurity issues stay raw and over-sensitive.

✦    Lend you a hand up, then subtlety cut off at the knees to keep you indebted & coming back.





✦    If you point out an error they made, they go into defensive mode counter any such notion with anger, venting, rage, cold-shoulder, or withdraw
✦    Give you a metaphorical rug & then keep pulling it out from under you
✦    They are: blowhards, braggarts, blusterers, brow-beaters, bullies, big-headed, and ultimately bogus.
✦    Help you gain certain skills/info/connections, but then forever make you feel beholden to them.
✦    Extremely skilled at making anyone under their influence crave their approval.
✦    Make you feel special & then emotional distance themselves in ways that keep you unsure of yourself.
✦    Use a judgmental “you’re OK”/”you’re not OK” yo-yoing to keep you off-balance & “blameworthy.”
✦    Groom people via manipulation (charm/rage combo) to sell their reality/rationalizations to others.
✦    Virtually all of their ideas or ways of behaving in a given situation are taken from others, people they know and perhaps think of as an authority.
✦    Their sense of self-importance and lack of empathy means that they will often interrupt the conversations of others.
✦    Expect others to do mundane things, since they feel too important to do them
✦    Constantly use of “I”, “me,” and “my” when they talk.
✦    Very rarely talk about their inner life, memories and dreams, for example.
✦    Lie, using subterfuge and deception as tools
✦    Are stuck in one level of maturity where growth is not an option
✦    Only have eyes for “me, myself, and I” instead of “we”
✦    Don’t understand empathy, except to fake it as a tool
✦    Play “Give to get” by being nice or helpful only to expect reciprocation
✦    Put on the air of “having it all together” and will not readily admit failure or weakness
✦    Jump to defensive mode readily and frequently
✦    May apologize, but it doesn’t mean a real change in behavior
✦    Run from their own problems rather than tackling them
✦    Demand your trust rather than being transparent and earning it
✦    See you as extensions of themselves and resist your freedom
✦    Create stories, euphemisms, sayings, definitions, rules they hold up as Truth. Their world is false.
✦    Must talk about themselves & be in control. They want you to just be an ego-stroking entity for them.
✦    Find personality weaknesses & exploit them as easily as you & I ride a bicycle.
✦    Will rarely listen to or respect your “No”
✦    Take advantage of others to reach his or her own goals
✦    Appear tough-minded or unemotional
✦    React to criticism with anger, blame-shifting, shaming or humiliating others
✦    Fail to recognize people’s emotions and feelings
✦    Exaggerate achievements, personal history or talents
✦    Are unpredictable in mood and behavior
✦    Become aggressive, hostile, verbally vicious, or withdraws when threatened
✦    Can vocalize regret for a short time when found out, but soon rationalizes it away
✦    Appearance is important, so primping or fastidiousness is common
✦    Withdraw or a cold shoulder is used as a tool to make you do what they want
✦    Rationalize everything to make sure they always come out on top
✦    Will steal an idea, quote, lesson plan, piece of wisdom — call it their own
✦    Groom underlings and create organizational or business environments to suit their need for ego stroking

“Crazymakers thrive on drama, and melodrama requires a sense of impending doom. Everything is an emergency, a deadline, a matter of life and death, or something they will get to eventually. Read ‘never’ … Nearly any situation can be cast as melodrama to support a crazymaker’s plot lines …

• “A crazymaker is someone who makes you crazy by constantly stirring up storms.
• “‘Normal’ doesn’t serve their need for power.
• “Everything is always their problem, but nothing is their fault.”

This is serious stuff folks and it IS a problem with in the personalities of the few who are the most decried for their strange, weird and ridiculous rules and behaviors for those who seem bent on sitting before them every Sabbath believing every word they can come up with and every title they can bless themselves with.


So what can YOU do?  What steps can you take to protect yourself and family from such people and their behaviors?  Realize it is much more difficult to resist, confront and put up boundaries between you and a minister type because it seems the minister has the weight and backing of the entire BIBLE behind him.  He can show you dozens of scriptures where the "Men of God" were exactly the same way and thus imply that his behaviors are GOD behaviors or being just like Abraham, Moses or Paul.  He may be right but not for the reasons he thinks.   Resist anyway.


A couple examples of Diehl family ministerial resistance.  A certain not to be named current COG minister of the Joshua type was my family pastor for a few short years.  In Spokesman Club this minister was chiding the men for not learning their scripture cards and knowing them well.  My dad raised his hand and pointed out that the men generally had five day a week jobs and family and did not have the time the minister may have had to devote to memorizing scripture cards.  Uh oh....the Joshua like minister told my dad he would talk to him outside during the break.  My dad said "no you won't."   LOL.  Love ya dad!


On another occasion, this Joshua type minister was informing my recently Deacon ordained brother in law , done so by the new minister that replaced the Joshua type minister, that had he thought my brother in law was deacon material HE would have ordained him when he was his pastor.  Get ready....my brother in law looked at the Josh and said..."well ___________, (Josh), if I didn't think you had shit for brains, I'd care what you thought."   Excellent!   Josh went to the new minister but got nowhere.  The new minister was Leslie Schmedes whom everyone just loved and was a kind and gentle spirit.


If you are going to stay, pay, pray and obey with such a man as this at the helm of your version of the One True Church at least take some advice on dealing with such men in your church lives.

•  Assess the relationship

If “the bully” is someone you call a friend, you must reassess the relationship and why you are in it.   If you are being bullied by anyone within your definition of family or friends, seek help to remove yourself from the relationship

• Ignore “the bully”

Remember, you will not change another’s actions, only your reactions to them.  Keep in mind you are able to be empathic.  Understand that “the bully” is acting out of their own insecurities, fear and pain.  It is not about you.  It is about them.

• Do not enable “the bully”

Set those boundaries and limits.  Be clear, calm and firm.  State the behavior you do not like and state what is expected instead.  Remember, “the bully” will typically target people who do not stand up to him/her.

• Be careful

Be sure to monitor “the bully’ once you have defined boundaries.  Often, this setting such limits and stating your disapproval can escalate the bully.  Think about the young child who has a cookie each day after school.  Suddenly you give him a carrot.  What happens?  Tantrums.  Whenever we set boundaries with any dysfunctional relationship in our lives, the person may react badly.  If “the bully” physically threatens you in any manner, seek help and report this to the authorities immediately.  Remember, you are dealing with an emotionally challenged person who lacks social skills and impulse control.

              Oh No You Didn’t Say That To Me…Dealing with the Adult Bully



Contact Dennis at DennisCDiehl@aol.com

Philadelphia Church of God: Is Your Child Safe Attending Their PYC Summer Camp?

From a reader here:

My son was "accepted" as they call it in PYC, to attend his first camp in 2011 when he was thirteen. It seems a lot of things the PCG does seems good, but the problem is, the ministers don't practice love for their fellow man. They are on too much of an ego trip they can't think straight. Camp was a good learning experience IF some of the psychopath ministers would stay away. For instance, Calvin Culpepper, a minister was playing ball with my son's dorm and one of the balls he hit to my son knocked him in the head. He had big headaches after this and got sick and had to sit out a few days in sick bay. Calvin Culpepper never called me to tell me this nor Wayne Turgeon, camp director, (Gerald Flurry's son-in-law). As a matter a fact, because we were not allowed to get in touch with our kids but at certain times, I didn't get the whole impact of what could have happened to the inside of my son's head until he came home three weeks later. We're out of the PCG now. We survived, thank God!

You can read more PCG summer camp horror stories here: “PCG Summer Camp Horror Stories”

PCG has a track record of totally disregarding the youth in the church:  Philadelphia Church of God Parents Abandon Minor-Aged Daughter

Philadelphia Freedom - Arbeit Macht Frei?  The PCOG holds youth camps at Armstrong College during the summer trying to create positive public relations buzz in packaged news reports released to local Oklahoma news outlets. However, unfiltered reports from the direct participants of what actually has occurred at the camps have surfaced. Letters about the camps sent to ESN with a reported camp sermon tirade by Flurry may be read by clicking here. Concentration on camp sporting activities combines with mandatory bible studies, harsh discipline, and campers being closely guarded twenty four hours a day. Reports of sleep deprivation; completely exhausted youth; inadequate meals; severe dehydration, heat exhaustion; camp injuries; nonexistent, or negligent medical care; and of military boot camp type techniques used to enforce constant, severe discipline have emerged. The Edmond, OK church college camp is for those who are 13-19, whose parents are baptized members of the PCOG. Acceptance at the PCOG Youth Camp can serve as an indoctrination and recruitment tool for idealistic, religiously inclined church youth to apply to Gerald Flurry's unaccredited Armstrong College.

Other widespread concerns for family members impacted by the PCOG include no further contact orders with family, once family members are disfellowshiped by the ministry. Philadelphia church members are ordered to shun any contact with family members or others who have been excommunicated, or disfellowshiped for any reason, valid or not, by the minister. The slightest criticism or minor doubt expressed about Malachi's Message, purportedly written by "That Prophet" Flurry as the "little book" referred to in Rev. 10, is strictly verboten upon pain of disfellowshipment. Philadelphia church members are only allowed PCOG approved reviews of Malach's Message, Raising the Ruins, Mystery of the Ages, and other such church writings at such booksellers as Amazon.com if they wish to remain a member of the church. Nor are PCOG family members who are outsiders allowed to post uncensored reviews of PCOG literature or risk disfellowshipment and permanently losing contact with their own family loyal to Flurry. Personal letters of PCOG family members directly impacted and hurt by PCOG's no family contact policy or otherwise may be found at ESN here.

Dennis on "Come September"

 

Memorial Orthodox Presbyterian Church

Rochester, NY

Where my journey began

I don't recall as a child either myself or my parents viewing the Presbyterian pastor as either "in charge" or "the minister" whose every view and idea, strange , weird or ill informed, had to be listened to and followed.  He was the minister. He taught the Bible, conducted services, visited the sick and maybe occasionally was asked to "counsel" someone on some topic but I am not sure that was a role he played either.   No one ever said, "the minister came over today," in sheer terror or "I'm getting a visit from the minister," as if something terrible or highly corrective was about to happen.  Every minister I ever experienced before WCG was just a nice guy, doing what he felt he was called to do or making his own choice to do it and presenting the Bible to us in a practical and meaningful way.  We did not follow him nor did he ask or expect that. None of them ever got up and announced after hours of sermon blather that they had come to see themselves spoken of in the Scriptures and they were either now a Prophet, Apostle, Watcher, Elijah, Zerubbabel or Joshua the High Priest.  We would have all died laughing, fallen out of the pews and fired him recommending counseling and medication I suppose.  

It took me awhile in the ministry to figure out that ministers in the WCG were a more authoritarian figure than in my experience growing up. They took their cues from HWA.  I was 18 when sitting in Harmony of the Gospels Class I heard Rod Meredith say, "There is God, Jesus, Herbert W Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong, myself and a few other leading Evangelists...."    I recall thinking how weird a thing that was to say.   I noticed that after "and myself" he could not come up with any specific names. 

My first experience with ministerial authority came when Rod Meredith had announced that if he was late for class, not to waste time waiting.  Someone should man up and lead a discussion until he got there.  So I did.  LOL!   It pissed him off evidently and when I went to lunch he was running track and called me over.  I thought he was going to say something nice but he asked me if I had repented of doing that...  Sure, fine, whatever.  That man confused me at times.  

My first experience with ministerial authority in the churches was in Minneapolis but I have to say those I worked with did not seem so inclined.  Some of my best memories and funniest days visiting was with Vic Kubik, now President of UCG.  I recall him once during one of his attempts to trim down a bit getting a little crazy around Passover for something missing from his diet.  Since it was past Easter and the chocolate bunnies were half price, he bought one and devoured it from ears to tale and we laughed our asses off.  We also knew we could stop anytime for a Whopper, fries and Coke for $1.19 on the road and it fit the budget.  Once we first visited a home that was merely a burned out hole in the ground.  There was a half burned piano in the hole.  Vic said, "I guess they are not home."  and again it was just fun and real.  The best was when we called on a new visit and sat in the kitchen talking for about a half hour before Vic asked them how they came in contact with the church?  They said, what church?   The people we meant to see lived next door......  Say what you wish, but have always liked Vic Kubik and where his heart seemed to be.  He's been the ONLY minister I know who puts the practical Jesus into practice with Life Nets.  I also was close to Denny Luker in the day and felt I knew his heart well though we did disagree along the way.  

It was in Chicago the next year I began to learn about following the minister and doing what your were told either in your personal life or as lead by "the minister" who ultimately knew more about the Bible than you ever could.   I was the understudy, so to speak, of a Regional Director who brought me into Chicago because he liked my grades in his Epistles of Paul Class.  That's where I learned to babysit, wash minister's cars, show up at all hours of the day and night and hang out at the YMCA.  I learned to drink in Chicago.  I learned to rate ministers as liberal or conservative, HWA men or prone to GTA.  It's where I learned NEVER to go through the door ahead of the RD and never to leave the sauna before the RD as "I might have something important you need to hear."  It was a freaking mess and I wanted out.  Dave Pack came  back into the ministry in Chicago and I really wanted out. 

To make a long story short, all hell broke loose in Chicago in 1974, ministers were spying on ministers and taking license plate numbers at secret meetings that I had no clue I was attending.  LOL  I knew I was attending but I did not know they were secret.  I got fired one day in a phone call for guilt by association. Drove home to NY to see my parents and got rehired explaining I had no clue what the hell was going on. I still believed in what I perceived as my calling and spiritual perspectives.  I got transferred to Eire, Pa but on the way got a call to turn South and head to Findlay, Ohio where I spent 8 nice, leave me alone years, with wonderful folk.  Of course, the Corporate Church and "ministers to be followed," were into one damn scandal after the next and that is where I learned the fine art of denial.

Why do the many follow the few as if they knew?  Why did I not say, "wash your own damn car," or "they're your kids, you take care of them."?   If you told me today not to walk through the door before you did, you'd regret it.   If you told me not to leave the room before you did because you might have something important to say, I'd laugh my ass off and tell you I'll see you when you get finished feeling special and important.  It was a game one minister used to pay in the sauna to stay until the last guy was driven out by the heart and he alone survived.  I knew his game and left early on purpose.  I suppose I didn't want to be labeled as having a "bad attitude" or mess up a chance to get out on my own away from the crazies.  

In my experience, it was not uncommon for members from surrounding areas calling or writing and asking for help on how to cope with their ministers.  They called me to help them cope with Ron Weinland, Ron Reedy and Dave Pack.  They called to pour out stories about how they were treated by  a now Evangelist for LCG.  I always asked it they had talked to their minister personally about the problem or hurt.  By the time they called, the answer was always, "yeah right...not doing that again." It's also fascinating to me that these same types of austere or "don't you know who I am," types are STILL the ministers in the splinters.  They got PROMOTED and life is good.  Go figure....

I had a habit of visiting all the kicked out of the church by the last minister types when coming to a new area and most came back to church with a little encouragement and forgiveness for whatever grievous sin they commited previously.  I stopped by to see one woman not knowing I would be walking into a raging bee's nest of anger.  She yelled at me through the screen door about the Armstrongs spending and big idea about themselves and I just listened.  She then asked what I thought about that and I said that I agreed which I did.  She smiled and came back to church the next week.  It was hilarious. 

The now LCG Evangelist who I replaced here in Greenville evidently felt women should not ask questions in church and should only ask their husbands Bible questions.  At least this is what one woman told me as she tested me on this issue when first arriving.  She asked if she could ask me questions whenever she wanted and that she had been told she could only ask her husband.  (It is in the Bible actually and worthy of edit or errasure).  I asked her why she would ask me such a thing.  She said, because "I want answers and my husband is stupid."   Again...hilarious and I said to ask me whatever, whenever.    

Where are the brakes within such churches as Gerald Flurry's PCG or Dave Pack's RCG?  Why are there NO demands for accountability, balance and applying the principle of there being wisdom in the multitude of counsel when these types of men get their big ideas going at the expense of everyone else?  Can't they see what is going to come of all this ridiculous theology so called? What's with Restored Church of God current members who can't speak up?  You can't tell me they ALL believe everything Dave can come up with about himself and how the Bible points to him in his narrow and theologically under educated world. Of course the answer is , "He'd disfellowship me."  Why can't you say "So what"?

 Dave has arrogantly and openly admitted he will abide no disagreement and not permit "papers" to be written exploring other avenues of belief on topics that Dave has already decided he knows the one true answer to. Dave's Wonderful World Today was Hitler's dream.  Where is the internal discussion as to where a Dave Pack or Gerald Flurry is taking us?  I imagine there are a number of Ron Weinland devotees who, now that he is behind bars, will speak up as to what they always felt or disagreed with but never when he was around.  I guess we all do that at times out of one kind of fear or another. Fear can keep you in your seat and mouth shut. 

I will tell you plainly that the Dave Pack's and Gerald Flurrys of religion are just men with strange and often weird ideas about themselves and theology.  They are neither special or insightful beyond measure. They may be loud or they may be intimidating, but they are just men. They may throw scripture around as if they were Peter, James, John or Paul in the flesh but they are just men.   I guarantee you, Gerald Flurry is not "that Prophet" of Malachi nor is Dave Pack any real incarnation or fulfillment of Haggai's Joshua. Herbert Armstrong was not really any end-time Zerubbabel nor was he any Elijah to come.  That is just theological bullshit. Both concepts and personal beliefs are stupid beyond measure and outside of their own followers all you'd hear from real theologians would be, 'they said what?  You're kidding me?"  In a very small and controlled world you lose your sense of self and all too often your common sense.  

Both men have made fools out of themselves making scripture mean what it never meant and never will mean. Those that put up with and never speak up to, as their resources both in mind and money, are sucked up to preach foolishness and analogies gone amuck are going to get really hurt spiritually.  There will be a lot of forehead smacking when they admit "I never really believed all Mr. Pack told us about himself," but never had the courage to say when he was saying it.  Trust me, I don't blame you. I know how that works but realize you will wish you had. Whatever consequence you are afraid you'd suffer for pointing out these men's folly is NOTHING compared to what you will have to deal with when it is obvious to all and no more denial allowed. 

I'm not against leadership. I'm against stupid.  I'm not against being organized for a common good.  I am against being herded.   I am not against ministers and pastors.  I'm against those who are anything but helpers of people's joy and servants above all else.  

So...I dedicate this song to the last two weeks of August 2013 and the cooler theologies that now doubt will spring from the coming of Fall.  

See You In September

(The Happenings)

I'll be around each and every night
Reading your stuff 'cause you're just not right
Bye-bye, so long, farewell
Bye-bye, so long
See you in September
See you when the summer's through
Here we are (bye, baby, goodbye)
Saying goodbye to the crazies (bye, baby, goodbye)
Strange weird ideas... (bye, baby bye, baby)
Have taken you away (bye, baby, goodbye)

Have a good time... but remember
There is danger in the summer moon above
Will we see you in September
Or lose you to this summer's dumb?
(counting the days 'til they walk from  you)
(counting the hours and the minutes, too)
Bye, baby, goodbye
Bye, baby, goodbye
Bye, baby, goodbye (bye-bye, so long, farewell)
Bye, baby, goodbye ...

amen......

  Contact Dennis at DennisCDiehl@aol.com