My "that's pathetically ignorant" button always gets pushed when Bob Thiel searches the globe for the nasty effects of weather, mostly in due season, inflicted upon the dregs of humanity and attributes this to "God trying to get our attention." The concept that a god has to try has always escaped me.
Now we see that, in keeping with COG Apostle think, PCG also finds their weak god , unable to speak up evidently, punishing California since the70's because they persecuted God's Apostle so called. It's a ridiculous concept and someone said it well when they noted that the Churches of God see themselves as the center and reasons EVERYTHING happens in this world. That's Theological Narcissism to me.
God does nothing directly himself anymore. That trait died out rather soon in scriptures as well as middlemen, weather and natural geological phenomenon took over for the direct voice of God. When we read "thus saith the Lord" or "and God said", if it's in the Bible we just think, "well ok..if you say so. " Today we'd not be so trusting with good reason. It never seems to cross the minds of we sincere folk to ask just what do you mean "God told me" or the mechanism by which the "thus saith" actually comes from. I got "called" into the church. I got "called" into the ministry. But only because I chose to do those things of my own free will. I never actually got a call from any god nor did I hear his/her/its voice literally. Everyone I know today who hears the voices of the gods in their heads today is on medication to curb it and try to control the behaviors that don't lead to a quality life.
Dave Pack heard his own voice in his head and started his true church. Gerald Flurry did the same but filtered his hallucinations through a prayer rock. Every Christian Church on the planet traces their origins to the Apostles. Bob Thiel does but he divines the gods through dreams and words spoken with meanings other than what he came away with. Ron Weinland divines his calling through who the hell knows what. Herbert Armstrong wove the tale of the steering wheel being practically ripped from his hands taking him where he had no intention of going. Others divine the favor of the gods or God because "prayer proves it." I prayed a lot in 30 years, for lots of right things and not "amiss." I prayed over a gazillion sick and never saw a healing. People got better or died but that's about it. Prayer proved nothing to me and don't shit me about having no faith or being insincere and asking amiss. Dave's, Gerald's, Bob's and back when, HWA's calling were all self inflicted and they do not and did not hear any voice of a God.
There are some indications that Bible God can speak up, for himself and "with a mighty voice" at times, but over time even a cursory read of the scriptures will reveal that this boldness disappears leaving the Psalms to plea with a God who seems so far off and of asks "where did you go?" I think those who said God has a mighty voice never heard it personally but imagined it so to be.
"Jeremiah's" Lamentations reflect this loss of God's voice and intervention probably now having simply left Israel to her desolation and destruction and it's the fault of the people...nice going.
The evidence of Bible God's dwindling loud voice and personal relationship with individuals is evident in scripture. In Genesis we have a God who walks and talks in the garden with humans. He is seen face to face and humans are his friends. But it isn't long before God only speaks through pillars of cloud and fire and speaks from mountains with rumblings (earthquakes and volcanos) . Soon enough, he disappears normal communication and has to resort to intermediaries in the form of prophets and priests who hear the voices and pass it on. Today God speaks only through Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Robert Thiel and/or James Malm ...whatever. When they aren't available, he tries to get our attention with weather.
God, who is said not to live in temples, lives in the Temple, specifically the Holy of Holies, and can only be divined by the leader or later by the priesthood. He never comes out and only accepts visitors once a year at Atonement. I've stood in the space once used as the Holy of Holies, but God had left by then.
Even in the history of the times, the voice of God disappears and men are left to discern it with stones and bones, animal entrails, dice and lots. The early Apostles were even force to figure out who God wanted to replace Judas by casting lots. God ain't sayin'. Consulting Oracles were also popular to figure out what the gods wanted as He had pretty much disappeared from the surrounding nations as well.
Eventually in the New Testament we have God speaking through his son Jesus and that all becomes a matter of faith just as believing the voices in the heads of the prophets were actually that of God. An argument could be made for Ezekiel showing all the signs of schizophrenia, which would not have been understood in the day, as well as the young Samuel who was told by Eli the next time they spoke to him to do what they said. Classic schizophrenia which tends to show up in the teens into the 20's. We'd scoff if Dave Pack said the voice of God in his head told him to "send it in." Most scoffed back then too and were right to be cautious of "God told me."
The Apostle Paul was called, so says Luke though Paul says he was called from the womb, on the road to Damascus seeing a light brighter than the sun and the voice of Jesus....in his head. The accounts are muddled nicely. They can't all be true. This description also fits the classic symptoms of temporal lobe epilepsy with religious content, but I'll spare you that concept for God's voice for now.
"Paul himself makes no mention of a conversion on the road to Damascus, whereas Acts of the Apostles has not one, but three accounts:
- At Acts
9:3-8, Paul was blinded by a light and fell down, then heard
Jesus, who told Paul that he would be told what to do when he was in
the city. His men did not see the light, but heard the voice. They
remained standing.
- At Acts
22:6-11, Paul told the people he was blinded by a light and fell
down, then heard Jesus, who again told Paul that he would be told
what to do when he was in Damascus. This time, his men saw the light
but, unlike Paul, were not blinded, and did not hear the voice.
- At Acts
26.13-19, Paul told Agrippa that he saw a brilliant light and heard Jesus, who gave him his mission, but did not command him to go
to Damascus. He fell down, but there is no mention of blindness, nor
is there any mention of the men seeing or hearing anything, although
for some reason they also fell down. He told those at Damascus and
Jerusalem about his conversion experience.
Throughout scripture, the voice of God gone from mighty to "a still small voice" . From the beginning almost, one can see that literal wind, fire, thunder, lightening , hail and rushing water was perceived by those desperate to hear from God as the voice of God. Individuals heard the voice of God and reported to the group but hasn't that always been a rather unfair way credibly communicate such important things?
Reading between the lines indicates that all too natural, though dramatic, weather phenomenon and geological events were heard as the voice of God. It's what humans do and have done for thousands of years endeavoring to divine the divine and explain natural events they had no understanding of.
Exodus 24:16
The glory of the LORD rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it for six days; and on the seventh day
He called to Moses from the midst of the cloud.
Numbers 7:89
Now when Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with Him,
he heard the voice speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim, so He spoke to him.
1 Kings 19:12
After the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire
a sound of a gentle blowing.
IT WAS THE WIND
Psalm 68:33
To Him who rides upon the highest heavens, which are from ancient times; Behold,
He speaks forth with His voice, a mighty voice.
Psalm 29:3-9
The voice of the LORD is upon the waters; The God of glory thunders, The LORD is over many waters. The voice of the LORD is powerful, The voice of the LORD is majestic.
The voice of the LORD breaks the cedars; Yes, the LORD breaks in pieces the cedars of Lebanon.
IT WAS THE WATER. IT WAS THE THUNDER.
He makes Lebanon skip like a calf, And Sirion like a young wild ox. The voice of the LORD hews out flames of fire. The voice of the LORD shakes the wilderness; The LORD shakes the wilderness of Kadesh. The voice of the LORD makes the deer to calve And strips the forests bare; And in His temple everything says, "Glory!"
Psalm 46:6
The nations made an uproar, the kingdoms tottered;
He raised His voice, the earth melted.
AS IN MAGMA
2 Samuel 22:14
"The LORD thundered from heaven, And the Most High uttered His voice.
Psalm 18:13
The LORD also thundered in the heavens, And the Most High uttered His voice, Hailstones and coals of fire.
IT WAS A THUNDERSTORM. IT MAY HAVE BEEN A VOLANIC EVENT
Ezekiel 43:2
and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east
And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.
RUSHING WATER DIVINED AS A VOICE ALONG WITH GOD AS THE SUN
Revelation 1:15
His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace,
and His voice was like the sound of many waters.
Jeremiah 10:13
When He utters His voice, there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, And He causes the clouds to ascend from the end of the earth; He makes lightning for the rain, And brings out the wind from His storehouses.
STORMS. Baal was the original storm God but Israel appropriated his traits for YHVH's, who originally was a Mountain God.
Ezekiel 9:1
Then He cried out
in my hearing with a loud voice saying, "Draw near, O executioners of the city, each with his destroying weapon in his hand."
"IN MY HEARING...NOT YOURS"
Ezekiel 10:5
Moreover, the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard as far as the outer court,
like the voice of God Almighty when He speaks.
I also heard the sound of their wings like the sound of abundant waters as they went,
like the voice of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of an army camp; whenever they stood still, they dropped their wings.
Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and
I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,
A VOICE AND A TRUMPET ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. ALSO HEAD ONLY IN JOHN'S HEAD
After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven,
and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things."
Daniel 4:31
"While the word was in the king's mouth,
a voice came from heaven, saying, 'King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you,
Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
"Father, glorify Your name " Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him." Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
THOUGH THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT OR HEAR IT AS A VOICE.
2 Peter 1:18
"
and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain"
So which is it ?
John 5:37
"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.