Ron Weinland and Steve Dalrymple On Church Expenses

Mike has another great post on his blog about Ron Weinland and the trial.  Juror 251 is back with more information.  He points out how Ron's right hand man came out looking like a fool.

And then Steve Dalrymple took the stand…


The prosecution asked him what kinds of things he would consider to be church expenses.  Then they asked him what kinds of things he would consider to NOT be church expenses.  They asked him if he traveled or dined out with Mr Weinland, and he confirmed that he did attend an Elder’s meeting at one time in Las Vegas.  When asked why the meeting was in Las Vegas, since there was no church, or logical reason other than personal entertainment to go there for a meeting, he testified that it was Mr Weinland who chose their meeting locations. {I am aware of elders conferences in Las Vegas in 2007, 2009, 2010, and 2011.  The last two established as being in the 5-diamond Venetian Resort Hotel Casino}.

It was at this time that the prosecution asked the judge for “leeway” with the witness, and this was granted.  It began to get very interesting…

The attorney began showing Mr Dalrymple receipts for various “expenses” of Ron Weinland.  He showed him receipts from a spa.  Mr Dalrymple did not know what “deep-tissue” was that was listed on the receipt, and had to be told that deep-tissue was a kind of massage.  Apparently a very expensive massage.  Would that be an appropriate church expense?  He stumbled and mumbled, and said that if Mr Weinland had a bad back, then it could possibly be a church expense.  He did not have an explanation for the next receipt, which was another deep-tissue massage, this time for Laura.

The prosecution showed receipts for shopping, from the Fashion Show Mall in Las Vegas, and a couple receipts from Nordstroms.  Were those church expenses?  He began to visibly shrink within himself, as there appeared to be no way for him to continue to defend his Prophet.  No, those did not look like church expenses.





The prosecution showed receipts from the Union Pet Clinic, listing many expensive bills for veterinary care for the Weinland’s dog.  Did Mr Dalrymple think that medical care for the dog fell under the umbrella of church expenses?  No, those did not look like church expenses either.


Steve Dalrymple took the stand with the air of someone who was going to do everything in his power to defend Mr Weinland’s actions, even though he was a witness for the prosecution.  He left the stand looking like someone who had been crushed by the knowledge that their hero was in fact a human being, and a very flawed and dishonest one.

There is much more to the post here Porch-Mouthed Ron

Apostle Malm: I Do NOT Set Dates! Well, Maybe Just A Little

Apostle Malm claims he has NOT set dates for any prophecy to be fulfilled.  He does a Clintonesque dance around his many specific dates he has set over the years. "I did NOT sleep with that woman!" "I did NOT set dates!"

Today he writes:

Since 2008 I have calculated the 1,335 days back from the moment the day of Pentecost begins and have said that IF IF IF this was to be the year then the abomination would be set up around that date.  I NEVER said that anything would happen on that date, I only said that IF that would be the year, then that was the date that the abomination MIGHT POSSBLY be set up.

I have done this annually:  To try and get people to understand the count and to cover all POSSIBILITIES.
Of course a certain cogwriter each year posted that I had set another wrong date, and when I wrote to explain my postings and asked him for a correction or retraction I was ignored.

In fact there IS a prophecy which reveals the year of the setting up of God’s kingdom!  I had published that also in 2008 at the main site, but it appears that Bob has not done his homework before condemning me each year.

The 2,300 day Prophecy reveals that the Kingdom will be set up in 2016 and counting back the 1335 day means that the abomination will be set up around Sep 16 in 2012.

Of course both the Sep 16 and the 2016 dates are dependent on the veracity of the facts and the accuracy of the counts.  This is why I have NOT even set a date for 2012!

Note, he does not set dates, even though he set a date and then unset it again.  His acolytes actually swallow this drivel!

Are Christians Intellectually Stupid?

One thing about this blog is that it attracts readers from both sides of the aisle in regards to Christianity and Christian belief..  Many now despise Christianity while others find deep richness in it for their lives.  Others are devout believers that also believe in  evolution and do not take the Bible as being literal.  These folk are disconcerting to both camps. In spite of that, most here have at least found the freedom to use their brain instead of letting others tell them what to believe and how to believe it.  I think we all had enough of that!

Someone forwarded me a link tonight to a recent article by Joe Tkach Jr about this very issue.  I am curious as to your take on this:

On a flight to Dallas last week, my seatmate was James – a nice fellow in his late twenties. James was somewhat full of his intellectual capacity and thought the world was full of stupid people. Christians, he explained, were exceptionally stupid, because they seemed to be oblivious to the discoveries of science. In his estimation, they were like people who believed the earth was flat. James was obviously proud to consider himself an atheist.

I enjoyed the look on his face when I told him that I was one of those so-called ignorant Christians. I mentioned that he might not have heard of surveys showing that 40% of scientists are agnostics and 40% are Christian. I told him that I knew personally several believing scientists who work on the cutting edge of scientific discovery. I reminded him that Francis Collins, who was the director of the Human Genome Project, is a devout Christian. James seemed interested to hear more.

I told him that I am amused by TV characters like Dr. Sheldon Cooper and his “Bible belt” mother in the American sitcom The Big Bang Theory; and by Alice, the assistant to the vicar in the British sitcom Vicar of Dibley. I also admitted to him that some Christians would benefit from more education. But I told him that I’m annoyed that it is now acceptable to portray Christians as simpletons. These TV characters are definitely not typical of most Christians.

I explained to James that many of the concepts we grow up believing are myths. For example, there is the commonly held idea that even educated people in historic times believed that the earth was flat. However, the historical record does not support this idea. As noted by Jeffrey Russell (professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara) in Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians, the flat-earth theory is a fable used to denigrate pre-modern European civilizations.

The historic fact is that as far back as 330 BC, Aristotle pointed out that the shadow of the earth on the moon is always circular. In 240 BC, Eratosthenes calculated the earth’s spherical circumference. The Venerable Bede, who lived over 700 years before Columbus, explained the varying duration of daylight in terms of the roundness of earth, reasoning from the Bible that spoke of the “circle of the earth” (Isaiah 40:22).

Some of the most notable scientists through history were Christians. In the sixth century, philosopher and theologian John Philoponus anticipated the modern physics of light and atomic structure based on the doctrines of the Trinity and creation. Galileo was reading Philoponus as he calculated the movement of the stars, laying a foundation for our modern understanding of the cosmos.
Unaware of all this, James was intrigued. I hope I left him less sure that Christianity is only for dummies. I’d like to think I helped him shift in his thinking from being an atheist to an agnostic.

Of course, many assume that atheism and agnosticism are synonymous. They are not. There is a significant difference in the two. It is fashionable today to say you are an atheist. Writers like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchins have made names for themselves by ridiculing religion in general and Christianity in particular. They have suggested that if Christians cannot convincingly demolish the atheist argument and prove God exists, the only sensible default position for an educated person is atheism. But hold on a minute. Atheists claim that God does not exist, so it is up to them to prove their point. They can’t, of course – philosophically you cannot prove a negative. When cornered, most atheists have to admit to really being agnostic. Agnostics say they do not know whether God exists. This is a reasonable position for people who have insufficient evidence (and/or interest!) to make a decision.

Guess Which COG Group Had It's "College" Accredited?

Grace Communion International/Worldwide Church of God's seminary has received accreditation. Something that none of the splinter cult "colleges" and "universities" will ever accomplish. 

Russell Duke writes:

Hallelujah! I am thrilled to announce that Grace Communion Seminary has been accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC). Here is the first paragraph from the letter we received from DETC President Michael P. Lambert:

The Accrediting Commission of the Distance Education and Training Council met June 15, 2012, and it is a pleasure to advise that the Commission granted accreditation to Grace Communion Seminary for a period of three years. We extend warm congratulations to you and your staff on this initial grant of accreditation.

This accredited status is effective immediately, and applies to all courses offered by GCS. The Accrediting Commission of DETC is listed by the U.S. Department of Education as a nationally recognized accrediting agency. The Commission is also a recognized member of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation. The DETC report listing Grace Communion Seminary (under “One Institution Gains Accreditation”), can be viewed by clicking here. The DETC report states that GCS was founded in 1947. This is due to the fact that Grace Communion Seminary is a business name of Ambassador College.

Dave Pack's little Ambassador Center, United's  ABC center, Flurry's HWA "college", and Living's Living "university" are unaccredited puppy mills for training new ministers.  All are denomination specific and hand out "degrees" that are worthless pieces of paper.

GCI Taking Magazine Online Because of Money Issues?

Grace Communion International is taking their Christian Odyssey magazine from print version to an online version.  Citing rising printing costs, this move is deemed necesaary. 

As the cost of printing and mailing increases, small circulation magazines and newsletters have to think seriously about abandoning a print edition and going on-line as what is called an e-zine. We knew we would have to do it with Christian Odyssey sooner or later. Well, it’s sooner. The next issue of Christian Odyssey will be the last one we produce as a printed magazine. After that, we will continue with an on-line edition.

We realize there is a risk in making a move like this. Some will welcome it and find the electronic format exciting. Others will not like it at first, but, as I did with my Kindle, they will get used to it. However, I am afraid some will be tempted to throw up their hands and say, “Count me out.”

We really don’t want that to happen. So we are making our next issue a transition issue, in which we will do our best to explain how everyone can have access to Christian Odyssey. Even the most dyed-in-the-wool technophobes may be surprised at how easy it is, once you know how (or have grandchildren, who seem to be born knowing how).

Many are wondering if the continuing drop in income is part of the issue.  There was a period of several years the WCG was losing a congregation a week. Regular church attendance still is in decline as of 2012

As congregations continue to shrink in size many are leaving to local churches that are well established in their local communities. Most don't want to sit around and watch their congregation die a slow painful death.

Since WCG/GCI no longer controls or owns The Plain Truth, they used Christian Odyssey as their vehicle to church members on Christian Living.