Friday, January 4, 2013

United Church of God on David Barrett's Book About WCG/COG Implosion



UCG has some interesting comments about David Barrett's new book.  Mike Snyder has made a great observation about the break up of the Worldwide Church of God and how it was horribly mishandled.

Book Review - The Fragmentation of a Sect: Schism in the Worldwide Church of God

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Michael Snyder notes that the book is a sweeping and generally balanced secular review of the history and behavioral record of the Worldwide Church of God and its related organizations, particularly the disastrous and ill-conceived WCG breakup. For many, reading the book will likely be a painful experience, as while the book is not an “expose,” it does chronicle shortcomings of WCG and other offshoot leaders.

Book Information

Author
David V. Barrett

Publisher
Oxford University Press, USA

Publication Date
2013-01-02

ISBN
019986151X

Recommendation
Michael Snyder recommends this book.

Hardcover, 302 pages
Centered on a secular analysis of what has to be one of the world's most spectacular failures in change management, sociologist and British journalist David Barrett chronicles in this new work how successors to Herbert W. Armstrong deliberately deployed a non-biblical logic of "the end justifies the means" to essentially reverse the theological course of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG).  As Barrett painfully drills deep, the reader sees that instead of bringing the majority of WCG members to a new understanding of Jesus Christ, the incomprehensible act shattered the lives of multiple thousands, leaving in its turbulent wake freshly minted angry skeptics and agnostics, now hostile to God. Perhaps worst of all, as Barrett eloquently outlines, the wholesale betrayal of trust set in motion predictable human patterns where former leaders and ministers skip from church group to church group, finally claiming the "authoritative mantle" of Herbert Armstrong (HWA) for themselves and setting up a "new" one-man rule over an all-new religious group or splinter (page 209).

How quick we forget that Mike was also part of this break up and was the public face for the changes for quit some time. He, along with David Hulme were active participants in the turbulence that left lives shattered.

Mike continues with:

The book has already been reviewed by a number of prominent religious figures, including James Tabor, a liberal American theologian who once served on the Ambassador College faculty. The fact that Oxford University Press has published the book virtually guarantees that it will receive serious attention as an authoritative work on WCG, UCG and other WCG-related organizations.  However, Barrett recognizes that many American evangelical figures regarded the shattering of the Worldwide Church of God  as a politically positive event, noting: "It is a truism that history is written by the victors, and in the case of books about the changes in Worldwide (Tkach 1997, Feazell 2003, etc.) this is at least partially valid" (page 245). Perhaps the true “ironic dynamic” of this phenomenon appears as the catastrophic failure of post-HWA WCG leaders to achieve the religious goals for the majority of members, all of whom had contributed more than $1 billion in tithe contributions in the post-HWA years, but for most now had little to show for it.
"Most have little to show for it."  How true that comment is! There is nothing left but framed pictures on office walls and trophy cases filled with memento's gathering dust, unseen by all.

Bob Thiel: Don't Believe Everything Rod Meredith Says


It seems that Rod Meredith has sent a letter out to the ministry denouncing Bob Thiel and his recent self appointed prophet status.  Meredith denies making some of the comments that Thiel is attributing to him.

Meredith says he might have made some of these statements while in a "sufficiently incapacitated" state of mind after his stroke.  While I discount Bob's self appointed "prophet" status, I am quite sure that Bob's recollection of Meredith's comments are accurate.  This is not the first time Meredith has run off at the mouth and then denied he said something.  The Leona McNair court case is a sterling example of his big mouth. He has a long history of doing this.

From what I have learned, it seems that Charlotte sent an email related to the "Bob Thiel prophetic chronology" (shown in the 12/28/12 p.m. update on this page) to its ministry. This was sent along with a letter from Dr. Meredith in which he flatly denied making certain statements (that he did make) and having certain views that people including himself and Dr. D. Winnail told me that he had. He also suggested that at times he may have been sufficiently incapacitated that I should not have relied on certain of his statements to me. Instead of getting in a "he said she said" battle about this, this tells me that some in Charlotte strongly hope that people will not believe all of the facts that are in the chronology.

The following, which I received in an email today, offers a certain insight that all people who are interested in the truth should consider:
I took the keys and sermon discs etc back this morning to our assistant pastor (Our Pastor is in Australia at the moment). I was expecting to get questioned but wasn’t at that time. Later he rang me back to inform me that he had rung our pastor who told him to contact Charlotte. He was sent the letter that you were expecting to be sent to pastors and they made a big deal about the fact that you were declaring yourself a prophet and one of the two witnesses. I’m happy to say that God answered my prayers and gave me the words to reply to him (I’m not normally good at that). I said to him that it was LCG elders who suggested you might be a prophet and he responded that we shouldn’t rely on what Dr Meredith said after having his stroke. Of course if we can’t rely on that then we can’t rely on what he said in his sermons at that time either. I also told him that Dr Winnail had suggested that he also was one of the two witnesses and he didn’t have an answer to that.

Bob Thiel: I Am Ready To Be One of the Two Witnesses



I find it fascinating to watch the mental deterioration of Bob Thiel.  I am sure he is a pleasant person to be around and is greatly loved by his family so I have to wonder how they are handling this new found prophet status and end time witnesses malarkey that he is engaged in. 

Bob writes today on his blog:

It needs to be understood that while I will accept the type of prophetic role that God anointed me to have (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God), and it is possible that I may end up being one of the two witnesses (see Who Are The Two Witnesses? ), I have never stated that I was one of the two witnesses. If that is God's plan for me, that will be clear around the start of the Great Tribulation--which is probably at least four years away (see When Will the Great Tribulation Begin?).

Thursday, January 3, 2013

E.W. King Prophecies Coming True



E. W. is gloating on his blog that the nightmare he had a few weeks about about something big falling from the sky has come true!  It appears a plane crashed in Russia and killed its passengers.  Kings prophecy has come true.....100% accurate so far?..............coincidence?....inspired dreaming?.....ho hum....

In a recent dream that I shared I stated that a “big” plane would “fall” from the sky. I saw a “bird” or “birds” fall with it. The birds represent a small amount of people. I published this dream on December 15,2012 [click to read] and we find out in the news today [12-29-12] that a Russian passenger plane landed too fast and crashed killing eight people.
We read in the news:
"A Russian airliner broke into pieces after it slid off a runway and crashed on to a highway outside Moscow, killing four of the 12 crew on board and leaving chunks of fuselage on the icy road.
 The crash during peak holiday travel before Russia's new year's vacation, which runs from Sunday until 9 January, cast a spotlight on Russia's poor air-safety record despite President Vladimir Putin's calls to improve controls.
 Television footage showed the Tupolev Tu-204 jet in pieces, with smoke billowing from the tail end and the cockpit broken off the front.
 One witness told state channel Rossiya-24 he saw a man thrown from the plane as it rammed into the barrier of the highway outside Vnukovo airport, south-west of the capital, and another described pulling other people from the wreckage."
This is the beginning of what I called “The Marker”. Russia is mentioned in Bible prophecy. Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong stated: “There is a general agreement among students of prophecy that ‘Gog’ in the land of ‘Magog’ is the vast regions of northern Eurasia extending from the Baltic to the Pacific. ‘Meshech’ is Moscow, ‘Tubal’ is Tobolsk. The Bible margin says ‘Prince of Rosh’, which is Russia.” [Plain Truth, April 1981]

Geoff Neilson: HWA and GTA Soon To Be Resurrected To Be Two Witnesses



Geoff has been predicting this would happen for many years.  He posted again today that HWA and GTA will both be resurrected to serve as the Two Witnesses.  Geoff is not an isolated case that believes this.  There are still many in the COG that believe HWA will be resurrected for a final witness.



Note how Revelation 11:1-3 closely follows 10:11,
which indicates that a prophet in the endtime
who had already prophesied to royalty and many nations
MUST DO SO AGAIN.

This can't refer to some supposed Elijah who arrives
at the start of the great Tribulation,
never having prophesied before.

If Herbert W. Armstrong was the apostle to the 6 th church,
by definition he is one of the Two Witness prophets.
There aren't 8th and 9th church/lampstands.
Nor an 8th and 9th messenger.

HWA being the 6th, I deduce that GTA must be the 7th.
He brought more people into the Church than anyone except his father,
and probably was responsible for more becoming Laodicean than anyone else.
Besides, Mr Herbert Armstrong's views about Zerubbabel and Joshua
lend credence to that view;
and to be fulfilled both HWA and GTA must return.

The issue of the difference between Philadelphians and Laodiceans
would most visibly be resolved if GTA came back and
acknowledged the God-given authority of his father,
which would influence many Laodiceans to repent during
the Tribulation.

The Two Witnesses are empowered supernaturally.
Being resurrected (back to mortality)
is not far fetched, nor without precedent in Scripture.
Maybe one reason God gets especially HWA to return
is because of this prophecy in Isaiah 22:29-30