Sunday, July 14, 2013

Dave Pack is lying about HWA. What else is he lying about?

The Living Armstrongism blog has caught Davey Pack telling another lie.

Notice what Dave Pack wrote in the first two questions in his questionnaire for ministers in other COGs wishing to join RCG that he unveiled in his twenty-second and latest "Special Announcement".

1) Retirement—Mr. Armstrong taught that retirement is not an option for a true minister. 
Did you retire? If so, when, and why did you think yourself an exception? 
(2) Non-Career—Mr. Armstrong taught that “going non-career” is not an option for a true minister.
Did you do this? If so, why did you think yourself an exception?
Dave Pack is lying.
Dave Pack is lying about HWA.

What else is he lying about? 
Check the above link for a direct quote from HWA in one of his letters.  


DennisCDiehl said...

Dave treats the writings of WCG/HWA in the same way he proof texts his way through the scriptures. He finds what he likes or what agrees with what he wants to teach. I have serious doubts HWA "Knew" that he was any Zerubbabel in the same way Dave defines it but that he had no idea about any Joshua figure, or that he did know that Joshua would come in the future.

In context of course, something not Dave worries about, Zerub and Joshua in Haggai were contemporary. That part of the analogy, and that is all it is, for Dave breaks down. But no problem, just make some other explanation up and he's good to be.

We all recall how he usurped Ron Dart''s PT Newstand idea to himself at a time he was barely in the ministry. By this I mean claiming credit for it when it was simply not true. It goes right along with casting out the most demons in WCG history , senior ministers coming to him for advice on how to do it and having the most healings of all ministers in WCG history. For Dave he pastors the biggest, does the most, is the best, knows the most, sees the clearest and understands the most accurately that which is just too complicated for the average person to undestand.

"The simplicity that is in Christ" escapes a man like Dave. If it was simple he'd have no income and no dazzle. Simple is not dazzling and over arching in scope.

Dave Pack has always been delusional and given to hyperbole. I would have thought he would be smarter than this but he has made some major PR blunders of late including the publishing of his self righteous and never adhered to by himself in times past litmus test for loyal (to Dave and RCG) incoming ministers.

It is so true that now EVERYONE will know what any man or couple had to agree to in being employed etc. The real world of self respect, integrity and experiencing one's own journey, even or especially in what was once sincere ministry does not work as Dave perceives. Actually life does not work as Dave perceives.

His arrogance is now epic as will his failure be. Each new screed becomes more desperate and bizzaro it seems and certainly more bold and pushy. I cannot believe the 16 Stooges in their souls agree with everything Dave is doing and saying. Dave has already made fools out of them by publishing these 35 assinine requirments to walk in his presense. You guys out to be ashamed of yourselves. Dave has defined you now all to everyone watching. Simple amazing and not credible that you all agree with Dave in how he has exposed your route back into his good graces. Pitiful.

The goal in life ministers and men of all hopes, dreams and COG persuasions is NOT to filter your world, journey, experiences , hopes, dreams and perspectives through the eyes of David C Pack. Joshua H Christ or Joshua C Pack. That is what he demands of any who come in contact with him. Good luck with that one if you do.

Medications not congregations

Former RCG said...

Pack has lied about all the conversations and training that he received from HWA over the phone. Even if true how could the membership prove it. I guess proving all things...doesn't mean proving if a so-called COG leader is an Apostle, Joshua (The high priest), messenger, or anything else they decide to call themselves. Keep talking are your own worst enemy. The more you brag and boast the more I want to vomit!

Allen C. Dexter said...

Pack is megalomania and narcissism gone wild. August 30 will come and go and I'm curious as to what the outcome will be. Wouldn't be surprised if his little fiefdom comes crashing down with a sputter, not an explosion.

Anonymous said...

Peter Fontaine 1 day ago
You can flag down all my comments if you want to. But the fact is that Michael H. Venish is being used by Satan the devil. Of course he will never see that coming. He's persecuting God's true church, but God will strike him down one day, as he did Paul. Mr. Venish cannot say that he has not been forewarned of what is coming. Repent now, before it's too late. Go ahead flag me down. The truth hurts. I just hope you are able the withstand the punishment that you are putting on yourself.
This is a follower of DCP that posted on the Joshua video. They are mad! The truth is hurting them and they do not see the lies of their leader.

Douglas Becker said...

No narcissist can possibly be a Christian let alone be competent enough to be a "minister".

There are no "medicines" for narcissism unless you consider cyanide.

Anonymous said...

well you know....if the ordination is from God, no man can undo it.....he might "retire" from the active ministry, but he's still an ordained minister, no matter what any man says.

Byker Bob said...

Over the course of my career, I've been involved in the sale and service of capital equipment. In most cases, the service technicians have been honest to a fault. However, a fair percentage of the sales persons have been very twisted and flawed. Unfortunately, it is the very things that the majority of the adult population would consider to be flaws that have made these people successful, some of them millionaires.

If you were to make the mistake of allowing one of them to initiate a conversation with you, in the early stages, they will make an outrageous, illogical, unreasonable statement, one that most people would reject out of hand. You might actually even laugh. But, as they continue to talk, at some point in time, you will find that they have taken complete control of the situation, and through the verbal pictures they paint, they have turned you. This is called "closing". Once this has been done, should it be necessary to reclose you in the future, they've already proven that they can do it again and again. Your only alternatives at this point become going with their program, or totally shutting them out and walking away in order to remove their control.

You will also find that many of these folks are "analytical listeners". While the conversation is in play, for the most part, they are not even hearing you. They are thinking circles around you, developing patterns of logic, and determining what verbal pictures to paint to obtain your agreement. One on one, there is a possibility one or two points you make might register. However, in settings where one person speaks, and the others listen without the ability to ask questions or respond with feedback or comment, it's all over as you walk through the door.

Because they talk practically all of their waking hours, often, two hours later, they won't remember specific statements they made to you, points that you certainly latched on to and considered to be extremely important, if not outright promises. That's where the "get it in writing" cliche comes into play. At least if you have a written commitment, you have some leverage, however these people also have the ability to persuade you to overlook even that.

There is also ego which accompanies this set of "talents", and a lack of conscience regarding methodology. To them, getting you to commit to the product, concept, or viewpoint which they are selling becomes "the right thing". In their approach, the end (closing you on "the right thing") justifies the means. I've known horrible liars who not only have learned to fake sincerity to their prospects, but also have no problem sleeping at night. And, they are sleeping on silk sheets in a Numbers Bed in a house in a gated community, with several expensive automobiles and a boat and an RV in the garage.

Do people in the ministry do these things? Yes, some of them do. Some are arrogant with it, and actually in your face, having laid the groundwork with their Pavlovian conditioning of you that it would be a damnation offense to even question any of their actions.

My advice would be to look for some of the things I've outlined above. If you see them, it's probably going to change some of your perceptions regarding some of the things which you have believed to be real. I will comment that for the most part, people don't do the type of reexamination which I am suggesting here unless they are experiencing some sort of crisis, ie, something has spun out of control or gone terribly wrong in their lives. But, at least put a bookmark in it. It may be helpful over the next few months.


Anonymous said...

Is Peter Fontaine a RCG newbie? If so, find his picture on YouTube and add him to the Wuss Hall of Shame.

Steve Kisack said...

Anonymous said...
well you know....if the ordination is from God, no man can undo it.....he might "retire" from the active ministry, but he's still an ordained minister, no matter what any man says.

MY COMMENT: But, of course, there is no such thing as an "ordained minister". It's just another lie of men who want to control others and their money. Can't find "ordained minister" in the bible.

Byker Bob said...

There's got to be someone associated with the ACOGS who sees herself prophetically as the Witch of Endor. We need to find her and to get her to summon Paul, so that we can inform him that Herb and Dave say he is not an apostle any more. He is only a lay member because he has been spending far too much time making tents with Aquila and Priscilla rather than being a career minister.

Folks, this is getting just plain ridiculous and pitiful. Most of their local elders had employment outside of WCG. Also, in times of even greater than the normal financial crises, ministers were laid off, some iirc took on outside employment to help out the church, and there was a lot of other creative juggling that went on. Ministers were actually disfellowshipped and then reinstated.

This particular aspect of Pack's questionaire isn't even Armstrongism, it is Packism. He must have read the newspapers too much when Pope Benedict resigned.

They all condemn Joe Tkach, Sr., but fail to even consider senility as being a factor in HWA's decision making process.


Anonymous said...

I am not here to defend David C.Pack/Herbert W.Armstrong, nor bash them. However,I have read Mr . Armstrong's booklet '1975 In Prophecy',and nowhere in the booklet did he state definitively that the Great Tribulation would begin in that year. The booklet was written years before we and was an exposé on the advancement of science; and how these advancements could lead to a world that culminated in 1975.
Whether you like Mr.Pack or Mr . Armstrong or not;is up to you, but I doubt any of those griping and complaining here have been as widely read or acknowledged as these two.