Sunday, July 14, 2013

Dennis on "Memo to the 16 and Sell My Soul Types" in the Restored Church of God

Memo to the 16 And Sell My Soul Types

Dennis Diehl - EzineArticles Expert AuthorI don't know who actually makes up the 16 men that Joshua C Pack claims hang on his every idea and word and agree 100% with him in all things.  Maybe I know one or two of you from my own days in Ohio but I have never seen a list of exactly who you guys are.  I find it hard to say "who you men are," because now you have to live with the fact that your arrogant and self absorbed leader has made fools out of you and exposed the mental, emotional and spiritual route you also must have had to come to confess before coming on board.  I'm not sure any real man or woman would become such a lap dog in service to Dave and not feel a twinge of "what the hell am I doing?"

At any rate, everyone now knows how much of your being, your soul, your integrity and your own unique journey through the WCG experience you had or will have to give up to conform to Dave Packs standards of "repentance."  This is not repentance from anything.  This is brainwashing of the worst spiritual kind.  No wonder Dale Schurter disappeared for awhile after losing his common sense to come to Dave's way of being.  We now all assume you 16 have equally provided a written copy of just how much of your brain and mind you were willing to take out and throw in the trash for Dave.  

Personally I don't believe you lost your ability in the past to discern good from evil as Dave asks.  I believe you have lost your ability to discern good from evil now that you have sold out your being and unique life and experiences.  

These parts are my favorite.

" Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?

In case you all forgot, Dave wrote extensively about his own demotion to associate Pastor and I'm not seeing where he was all that willing or happy about it being temporary, much less permanent.  I include a chunk here for your memory refresh. This from Chapter 27 of his , "this is how I remember it all anyway," autobiography.  You can read or reread it all here:

He called it 'the Big Grapple," but expects those of you who he would force into this position to not see it that way.  Just know, Dave Pack never accepted in his life what he expects you to accept in yours.  Kinda weird huh?  No more weird to me however than calling himself "Mr Pack" and "The Packs" throughout his own autobiography.  Perhaps someone else actually wrote it I don't know and forget it was "auto" and not "unauthorized." 

I suggest you read it all before you accept his terms of employment.  Personally I think in his mind it is payback time and you will be treated as he bemoans his own treatment in the past when challenged with getting back into someone's good graces after years of complaints from his church members about him and his heavy hand in all things.

"Uncertain of the future, the Packs returned to Buffalo. Weeks later, on a Friday afternoon in August 1985, they received a telephone call that would dramatically alter their lives.

It was from Mr. Tkach. Mr. Pack knew instantly that he was not calling with good news. Mr. Harold Jackson, an elderly evangelist and Mr. Pack’s friend, was also on the phone.

“Dave, are you seated?”, Mr. Tkach began.

The field minister said, “No, but I can sit down.”

Mr. Tkach wasted no time: “We’ve heard some complaints. We think there are some lessons you need to learn, so we are sending you to New York City as an associate pastor.”

Mr. Pack could not believe the news. Yet another gross injustice, this time a plain demotion, and it had been stated in such a matter-of-fact manner—a terse notice that they would need to leave Buffalo as soon as possible—within a month. Mr. Tkach offered few explanations as to what were the problems, what lessons needed to be learned, or which brethren were upset.

“I was more shocked at this moment than at any other in my life to that point. I suppose in a way I feared it was coming, but the actual arrival of such an unbelievable injustice was the single most difficult experience in my life—or that of my wife. I had experienced injustice before, but NOTHING of this order. I knew that I had been the victim of a conspiracy of evil thinking, but would only learn later just how great that evil would be.

“What was worse, and what drove the moment indelibly into my mind, was that, while on the call, my 11-year-old son, Robby, ran into the house crying. Both sons had been playing a football game with neighborhood friends in the backyard—and Robby had snapped his collarbone—for the second time! He was simultaneously pleading for my help, while holding his shoulder as the bad news was being received. I did not realize the seriousness of his injury, and told him to go upstairs and I would be with him later.”

Mr. Pack hung up and walked upstairs in a daze to check on his son. Seeing his condition, the parents took him to the hospital. It was in the emergency room waiting area that the reality of the life-altering phone call sank in.

“I understood that New York City had been selected for my assignment because the goal of this maneuver was an all-out attempt to destroy my life. I would have no understanding of the true level of evil I was dealing with until years later. It was only in the apostasy that I fully understood the devil’s role acting through one of his chief agents in trying to destroy my ministry, in trying to get me to give up. Strangely, I was better able at that later point to more completely forgive the man for simply following the alien spirit that was probably always leading him.”

Reconsidering the Demotion


The next morning, without her husband’s knowledge, Mrs. Pack called the Ministerial Services Coordinator. Again, her family had known him since 1959 in Milwaukee, back when the Ochs family first came into the Church.

She pleaded with Mr. Tkach. Here are her words describing her call in a summary:

“‘You’ve known me for a long time, Mr. Tkach. I’m telling you, the reports you’re hearing are false. Why are you allowing these lies to be treated as truth without hearing our side? It is unfair and I don’t understand why you would do this to us.’

“I questioned him as to why my husband was being transferred when there was so much growth in Buffalo. I told him of senior ministers who had visited and praised him for all that was accomplished and explained that the decision made no sense.”

Assuring her he understood her concerns, Mr. Tkach said he would reinvestigate the decision.
Mrs. Pack hung up under the impression he was going to honestly reconsider the transfer. She could not have known that something much darker was unfolding.

A “Promotion”


The following Monday morning, Mr. Pack received another call from Mr. Tkach, only this time he was cheerful.

“I have good news!” he said. “We’ve been thinking about the situation over the weekend and I’ve received some additional counsel. We have decided to promote you.”

Alas, the "promotion" was a demotion in disguise but clever.  Dave did pick up on the clever part. 

(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you requalify?

The next one simply means are you will to buy into the bullshit I have made up since coming to power in my own mind.  It means nothing else. 

(17) Are you familiar with the new teachings that God has added to His Church on top of what Mr. Armstrong taught?

  • Which ones?—and do you agree?
(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true ministry?

Very favorite.  Point 19 is a formula for disaster in your future.  Most of his office staffs haven't quit in the past because they loved and deeply respected the boss no matter what he did or said.  I think Mr. Pack is making rules to avoid this problem in his future.  Of course it can't be avoided by real men. 

(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:
  • Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
  • What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
  • What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
  • Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
  • Where you disagree doctrinally?

20 is outstanding.  You'll find it difficult to cut your own throat and hang labels on yourself you hadn't even thought of until Dave brought them to your attention.  Personally I smell some burning pants on this one in Dave's own behaviors but maybe it's just me.  You will learn in time that the eye that sees, does not see itself.

(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):
  • Weak
  • Cowardly
  • Slothful
  • Covetous
  • Confused
  • Compromising
  • Foolish
  • Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
  • Heretical
  • Deceitful
  • Easily deceived
  • Betrayed your calling

21 is awesome.  Be sure to use words like "in the bonds of Satan," "I had shit for brains,"  "I was so deceived and afraid."  DO NOT say you thought Jesus/Christ would fix it in time and you wanted to support the brethren through difficult times., will just be considered  A and B and x,y,z excuses. 

(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?

For number 22 and just for the fun of it, why not put in "Abraham to come," "Moses the Magnificent," "Aaron of God," "One of the Two Witnesses You Will Train,"  or maybe "Amos of Tekoa Reborn," or "Spawn of Zerubbabel."  Rank is REALLY  important but please don't say anything above "Pastor." 

(22) What do you consider to be your ministerial rank?
Ÿ Evangelist Ÿ Pastor Ÿ Preaching Elder Ÿ Local Elder Ÿ Local Church Elder Ÿ “Elder” Ÿ Ministerial Assistant

For the next one here, you might consider a side note:  "I will if you will..."

(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?"

Go ahead, make Dave's day. Fill it in and send it in.   You can also go to bed every night knowing Dave has a copy stored somewhere.  He may not want you to share it with anyone, but I'm not so sure he wouldn't.  And if you show up employed, we'll know how you got there and how much of your soul , your experience, your own journey and your mind you have thrown away to get there. 

I can't speak for any save myself and the few ministers I actually know. But in my own journey through WCG those I knew were sincere.  They came into the church out of the hope it seemed to glean from scriptures and those things were important to them.  Most made compassionate ministers, that I knew, with right motives.  The whack jobs tended to rise to the top in WCG or at least stand out like sore thumbs.  I always faulted someone for not actually telling some they simply were not for the ministry. They were not helpers of anyone job but thorns in their sides.  Rather than moving them around and inflicting them on yet another congregation, tell them they aren't cut out for the job.  Never happened.  There was never a mechanism I ever saw for even testing a guy for even having the personality or heart for a pastor in reality.  

Dave Pack was brought back into the ministry after a layoff in 1973.  Dave has a tendency to see the spectacular in the mundane.  

"The field ministry was undergoing a restructuring in 1973, and, after careful consideration, the new Regional Director (RD) in Chicago requested Mr. Pack for an assignment in Rockford, Illinois. This was, in a sense, a significant promotion that sent the young ministerial assistant beyond where he would have been had he not been laid off."  Autobiography Chapter 15.

I can't speak for the spectacular promotion this was as this is how Dave saw it, but I was there.  The RD (George Kemnitz) was from Milwaukee and close friends with Shirley Packs father, Peter Ochs. Wonderful guy.  George asked me, as I was "spectacularly promoted" to being the RD's personal assistant and taken from Minneapolis to do so about bringing Dave Pack back into the ministry.  I don't recall offering much of an opinion. I was 23 years old and having my own miserable experience in Chicago with my own "promotion."  But Dave was brought back also as a family (dare I say nepotism) favor as far as I could tell. I was going to be sent to Rockford , Ill which is about 90 miles from Chicago because I told the RD I had had enough of the lifestyle and wasn't a johnny on the spot type. My days there consisted of babysitting, car washing, lawn mowing, going to the YMCA and sitting in the sauna and staying up until the wee hours of the morning which I don't do well. Chicago was where I learned to drink.  It was a joke. Then all hell broke loose, I got fired with George, got rehired the next week and sent to Eire , Pa but rerouted to Findlay, Ohio where I actually could be a pastor with wonderful folk.  Dave got the Rockford job in that way.  Chicago in 73 and 74 was a nasty place to be a young minister. 

At any rate, off topic.  You 16 and those that follow should think long and hard about what these 35 demands on your soul will do to you and your families down the road.   Amen.

Contact Dennis at


Anonymous said...

FOOTBALL??? FOOTBALL????? Herbert Armstrong BANNED Football and his sons were out playing it????

THIEL!!!!!! READ THIS!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I just got to that point and haven't read the rest of this, I got to go back and keep reading, but that got me and I had to post. Back to the article.

Sweetblood777 said...

Is Dave planning a double cross? I mean what is to stop him from not hiring these guys, but simply using their filled in answers against them.

Watch out boys, you can't trust this one.

Anonymous said...

Flurry could easily beat the arch-nemesis at his own game, by extending an open invitation (limited time only) to all RCG lay members.

Sure, it was an epic fail when it was tried with the UCG/COGWA split a few years back, but Flurry should seriously consider giving it another shot with the RCG, while their leader is at his weakest.

Come on Flurry, we get that you don't want any more worthless ministers, but lets see how many famously generous tithe payers you can procure from the wannabe Joshua, before the reunification clock hits zero

Unknown said...

Worthy "Golden Oldie" replay from below:


(sing to the tune of the Beatles "Nowhere Man" )

He's a real nowhere Pack
Sitting in his Nowhere Shack,
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.

Has a twisted point of view,
Who knows where he's going to,
Good he isnt a bit like you and me

Nowhere Pack ,please listen,
Your sanity is what you're missing,
Nowhere Pack, the world is not at your command.

Pack's as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere Pack can you see truth at all?

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Byker Bob said...

The autobiography excerpts certainly illustrate how we all tend to spin things in such a way as to humanize ourselves, or put ourselves in a better light.

One of the basic inequities of the Armstrong problem is that U.S. Constitutional rights were never practiced or respected. Right to privacy, free speech, and due process were all missing in action in classic WCG, and it seems obvious that the Armstrong successors such as David Pack have no problem inflicting upon others the indignities which were inflicted upon themselves. No Golden Rule, either!


DennisCDiehl said...

I enjoy reading DCP's autobio. It is truly the forces of evil resisting him at every turn. Every turn of events is satanic, demonic and just more and more proof that Dave is on the right track. Every negative review fuels his righteous denial and it's always the other person who has not the spirit of God which is why they are so evil.

All kidding aside, I wonder if DCP ever wonders if he might have a touch of some definable mental illness or personality disorder that needs some attention before it goes really south?

I have always said a man with mental health issues and so on can much more easily hid in ministry than any place else. Their quirkiness, serious nature, judgemental ways, paranoia, narcissism and drive can seem so much like some form of dedication and obedience. Religion is the only place you can get away with telling others, "God chose me to.." "God wants me to ...." "God is now...." "I realized I was Joshua...." etc.

One would not last 30 seconds in the real world talking like that.

Byker Bob said...

Well, Dennis, you may be on to something! Many years ago, I read an article in Playboy the theme of which was that certain types of men hid out as priests in the Catholic Church. One profile was men who were seeking an antidote to their homosexuality. This was years before the scandal involving pedophile priests, apparently another sizeable profile group.

The Armstrong approach to things slipping out from, or around their authority was always tightened controls. Basically, they would run scorched earth policies and have purges until getting things back on track to their satisfaction. In so doing, their was complete disregard for the normal human rights recognized by our Constitution and Bill of Rights, or by the Magna Carta.
Dave's ministerial questionnaire is part and parcel of the same type of thinking, superimposing his government, which he calls God's Government, over the freedoms and protections accorded by the U.S. Government.