Saturday, September 5, 2015

Dueling Feast of Tabernacles Sites

The latest issue of the Journal (issue 176) has up the listing of all the hundreds of Church of God Feast of Tabernacles sites around the world.

The sad thing about this list is the numerous sites of separate Churches of God that are really close to each other.  Certain groups publicly forbid their members from attending or associating with the other groups close by.  Some have even been in the same complexes and refused to speak to each other.

In California we have several really close to each other in the Central Coast area. This listing does not include GCI's Monrovia location which adds to the mix.  The most pathetic mixture is in Missouri.


Rock Valley Christian Church,(951) 600-9555,

Indian Wells: LCG,

King’s Beach: ICG,, (903) 561-7070.

Oceanside: UCG,

Oxnard: The Father’s Call,

Pismo Beach: Church of the Eternal God,

Solvang-Buellton: COGWA,

Ventura: Guardian Ministries, David Antion, P.O. Box 50734, Pasadena,Calif.91115,


Destin : Church of God Big Sandy,, (800) 946-5545, P.O.Box 690, Big Sandy, Texas 75755.

Fort Walton Beach :
Life Resource Ministries,
Common Ground Ministries,
Church of God Cincinnati,
Common Faith Network,

Lantana: The Christian Church of God,

Melrose: Multiple study groups, Sept.28-Oct 6, http://

Navarre: LCG, https://fot2015.

Palm Harbor: LCG, https://fot2015.

Panama City Beach: UCG, http://feast.

Panama City Beach: ICG,, (903) 561-7070.

St. Petersburg: Church of God Miami and CGI,
St. Petersburg/ Clearwater : CGI,, Aleida Fontao,, (305) 752-5275.  


Branson: UCG,

Branson: CGWA,

Branson: International Congregation of Yahweh,

Branson : Providence of God Outreach Network,

Branson : Eternal Church of God, Greenville: Yahweh’s Restoration Ministry, Sept.28-Oct.6,

Kimberling/Branson: ICG,, (903) 561-7070.

Lake of the Ozarks: LCG,

Lake of the Ozarks: Season of Our Joy,

West Plains: Congregation of Yahweh,Sept.30Oct.6,

We spent decades in the Worldwide Church of God mocking the hundreds and hundreds of various church denominations of the world.  Now that bitter vehemence has come back to bite the Church of God in their holy self-righteous posteriors. The Churches of God are divided into hundreds and hundreds of factions and personality groups that despise each other.  If these sad people cannot get along in the present world why would ANYONE want to be a part of their "kingdom's to come?

With the exception of Philadelphia Church of God and Restored Church of God that required registration and name tags to attend, most COG members ignore their leaders admonitions and visit other groups to see friends.


Anonymous said...

What did Jesus pray for before he was tried, convicted and killed? In John 17:20 he prayed for unity. What do the C of G require? Not unity, but uniformity. I've been asking Chris Cummings of Intercontinental Church of God (GTA's last church) questions concerning the Sabbath. He, as well as the person I've communicated with in the LCG, have the irritating habit of avoiding questions that I ask. Have you had the same experience? It reminds me of Pavlov's dog, conditioned to respond to questions in a certain way, regardless of the specific question asked. One didn't even know what I meant by the term "church age." I had to send an explanation to him as to why Pentecost was the birth of the church and that we are living in the church age. Do any of these people read anything that is not produced by their own organizations? Their training is very narrow and shallow, yet they can be so arrogant sometimes.

Byker Bob said...

When you try to bring back something that has already been fulfilled, this is what happens! There can be no unity in the imaginary, as it is a function of each individual's mind. What I laugh about (and this is not really funny!) is inflicting it in people whose seasons are actually 180 degrees off as compared to the things supposedly portrayed!

This "stuff" was the national culture given to the original Israelites, centered on the temple in Jerusalem. People from the later diaspora were required to travel to Jerusalem to keep it.


Anonymous said...

I am acog member. I can tell you that a large number of the brethren view all the members of different groups as "God's people". Many of us want to be together. Many of us want unity and see the hypocrisy of thinking our group is better or superior over another group.

The problem is with the egos of the leaders. All they care about is money and numbers. All they care about is preserving and maximizing their own power. Unity requires a humble heart and a willingness to serve instead of being served.

The men at the top of the COG organizations are so deeply flawed (as in worse than normal people) I don't think we will see this in our lifetimes.

I routinely see better "Christian character" in people I encounter in the "world".

Sad but true.

Ralph said...

September 5, 2015 at 4:56 PM
Byker Bob said...
"This "stuff" was the national culture given to the original Israelites,..."

Do you suppose this "stuff" applies to the 'true blues' of today?
ie. " Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."


Anonymous said...

I am amazed by comments like 6:01's.

OK - it's understandable that "brethren" would want to be together. I'm an ex. I know the feeling, and recall the experience of being at Feast sites and feeling like there was a true sense of camaraderie and fellowship.

But then comes the classic comment: The problem is with the leaders.

Huh? THEN WHY DO YOU FOLLOW THEM? What kind of cop out is it for people in all these various groups to say, "We're pretty much OK, except for the guys at the top who establish doctrine and run everything."

I don't get it. I honestly don't. I have repeated this several times on different threads and I'll do it again: They need you more than you need them. Walk away. Take your tithes and offerings, and your implied support, and leave. Figure out for yourself where you want to direct tithes and offerings, if you feel you must. But don't let the hypocritical leaders haul them in and misappropriate the funds, if you honestly feel the way you do.

Just. Walk. Away. But don't just sit there, watch how they behave, and then just send them your money and pretend it doesn't matter. It does. Follow your conscience, for crying out loud.

Ralph said...

on September 5, 2015 at 7:38 PM
Anonymous said...
"... Take your tithes and offerings, and your implied support, and leave."

I still ask, where does scripture command that one gives 10%, a "tithe" of one's worked for and earned income?
and, where does scripture define "wages", "hire" or income, as "increase"?


Anonymous said...

If you can see that all religions are creations of men not God then all this disunity makes perfect sense. Is this the work of god if his church is splintering into hundreds of groups?

Ralph said...

Scripture defines "increase" here: 1 COR.3:6 (AKJ)


Anonymous said...

If the people want unity, but the leaders are the obstacle to unity, it appears that the people are more mature than the leaders. Why follow them?

Anonymous said...

1) Only the Isrealites tithed.
2) They only tithed to the Levites.
3) They only tithed in the form of agricultural products ( money wasn't given to the Levites).
4) There is no command to tithe in the new testament, neither does the N.T. suggest that it is the responsibility of Christians to tithe or that they should even consider tithing.

Anonymous said...

6:01 here

I don't tithe to them for all the reasons you mentioned above.

I continue to attend because although I have proved some of their principles to be non-Biblical (British Israelism among others)I still believe we are commanded to keep the Sabbath and the Holy Days. I haven't been able to disprove them.

I don't want to stay home alone or meet with 2 other families in a someone's living room. I enjoy the fellowship and often the messages when I attend my ACOG.

I am in no way married to anything Armstrong though. I don't think he was an apostle or worship him like so many old-timers I know. If I found a non-Armstrong organization that kept the Sabbath and the Holy Days I would certainly check it out. As for now I am mostly content and smart enough to just keep my mouth shut about my disgust over the horrible character I see in many of the leaders to avoid bringing attention to myself and becoming the next purge victim.

I know that God sees what they are doing and He will ultimately sort everything out. I can only try to be the best person I can be and trust in God.

Anonymous said...

the premise is that the people are all the same, all believe alike, only the leaders are keeping us separated....nothing could be further from the truth.

it's been my experience that most people are following a man, which is why they stay with their particular group.

the others are with organizations that are so liberal that they can do whatever they want and still call themselves members of God's Church with no fear of being corrected.

Anonymous said...

I can find NINE of the Ten Commandments repeated for the Church (after Pentecost). I can't find the one dealing with the Sabbath. 1. Worship God ONLY! (I Cor 8:6) 2. Avoid idols (I John 5:21) 3. Don’t take the Lord’s name in vain (I Tim 6:1) 4. Honor your mother and father (Eph 6:1-3) 5. Do not murder (Rom 13:8-10) 6. Do not commit adultery (Rom 13:8-10) 7. Do not steal (Rom 13:8-10) 8. Do not bear false witness (Rom 13:8-10) 9. Do not covet (Rom 13:8-10) I can find descriptions of Paul going to the synagogue on the Sabbath, but that was for evangelistic purposes. A description of one's actions is not a prescription (or command) for others to do the same. We are told to come together for fellowship (Heb 10:24) but can't we do that on any day of the week (Col 3:17)? The ONLY day mentioned in connection with Christian worship is the FIRST DAY of the week, not the Sabbath (Acts 20:7; I Cor 16:1-2).

Anonymous said...

From The Wanderer to Anon 6:01..

I like the way you summed up your beliefs. I am part COGWA part "That don't seem right" and I wish sometimes I would have never heard of Herbie and the head bangers..lost years but you can't eat at the same diner when the food hoes bad. For the past 10 years I have done the feastd alone is getying old hat. Thisyesr going yo hang with my " so called christian" little angel that is my reason for living...uh...instead of my spiritual family that don't know or live anywhere near. I too have been searching for a non-denom thst does a Saturday gig. All ears to contributors too if you know.

Thanks for the space to put down some thoughts.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:01, interesting summary. I can appreciate where you're coming from. However, I find it interesting that you say you can't "disprove" the Sabbath/Holy Days doctrine of the COGs. I actually came to believe that HWA had not ever proved that they are binding on Christians today; don't forget, his own church (COG7) disagreed and eventually revoked his ministerial credential over his insistence on Holy Day observance.

Over the years, including when I was still in WCG, I enjoyed watching and reading material from the late Zola Levitt, a Jew who converted to Christianity. He was sincere and knowledgeable. For the longest time, I enjoyed it because I thought his teachings somehow supported my Armstrongist beliefs. It gradually dawned on me that he was actually teaching the exact opposite -- based on a scholarly, studied knowledge of both Judaism and Christianity, not six months of study in the local library. If you haven't before, look him up. It's worth the time.

Eventually I studied a number of other books about the Feasts, and realized that -- contrary to what Armstrong said -- theologians have known about them for centuries, understood their purpose and meaning, and recognized that according to scripture they, like the Sabbath, were fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It wasn't a struggle to come to that conclusion. It was quite plain.

Ironically, it was tougher to change my behavior than my belief. But continuing to attend a COG just because I enjoyed the fellowship or enjoyed listening to some of the speakers constituted, for me, the continued enabling of the Armstrong system -- after I'd learned how incorrect he had been. I couldn't do that any longer.

Good luck down the road. I know a lot of sincere people in the various COGs. Glad to hear the inmates running your particular asylum haven't completely rubbed off on you. :)

Anonymous said...

Constantine changed it from the 7th day to the 1st day in order to amass greater numbers of pagan sun worshipers into his following. God never changed the Sabbath. Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath and the Bible says that He left for us "a perfect example". If Christ kept Saturday I'm keeping Saturday. It may not be necessary but I'd rather keep it and not need to than need to and not keep it.

God's Word says repeatedly that the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people. To me, the Sabbath is easier to prove than just about anything else than any other doctrine.

That being said, if you keep the Sabbath but you have hate and envy in your heart and you treat people horribly, it's not doing you any good. So many in ACOG's think so highly of themselves because they observe the "right" days, etc but they have completely missed the mark on loving one another and keeping the spirit of the law.

Anonymous said...

To Annon 8:52

Do a bible study on how many times "the Sabbath" is mentioned in the entirety of the holy bible. Saturday was never done away with. God specifically says to keep it "through all your generations".

Men may keep the first day of the week but the Lord never did.

Anonymous said...

Ahhh! Do you have "Feast Fever," brethren? That time of year when "God's People" gather to look forward to the millennial reign of Christ when the whole world will be at peace? The lion will bury the hatchet and lay down with the lamb, and all that jazz? The Feast is a type, symbolizing the coming utopia when all men will dwell together in perfect unity, which we observe to be reminded of God's plan for us and to "get a foretaste" of the future.

And yet, even at those times of year when they're busy telling themselves these nice bedtime stories, they can't bury the hatchet for so much as one minute. They're totally relentless in the prosecution of their wars. Peace? Harmony? Love? Unity? And let the other guy win? Not on your life! If this counts as a foretaste, then they're looking forward to a time that's not any different from the way the world already is now! Some plan!

The greatest irony of it all is that the irony of it all is totally lost on them...

Anonymous said...

1:11 and 1:18, you're parroting a Captain Obvious line that proves nothing: Jesus kept the Sabbath.

Of course he did. He was a Jew. And the sun will come up tomorrow, and...

Jesus wore tassels. Do you? He observed the Feast of Dedication in the temple. Today it's called "Hannukah." Do you? If not, then what is your point about his "perfect example?"

The argument of the Christian faith is not what Herbert Armstrong contended it was/is. It's not that Jesus "did away" with the Sabbath, etc. That's not what theologians teach. We in the COGs looked ignorant for saying so, and the current offshoots still do.

The teaching of the Christian church is that Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath, the Feast days, and all the rest -- and referred to himself as the truth. It's an entirely different concept. Herbert Armstrong, desperate to validate a convoluted interpretation of scripture, used the common advertising techniques of his day to raise questions, create doubt, and persuade people to listen to him. However, he would have done well to concern himself with accuracy and thoughtful scholarship, instead of trying to prove everybody wrong.

Ralph said...

Just as a matter of interest concerning the Sabbath. Where does it begin, in Jerusalem or at the International Date Line? In the US the Sabbath begins at sunset on Saturday following the example set by Jerusalem.
But what about other countries such as Australia where Saturday, ruled by the International Date Line, begins a day earlier?
In such countries is the true Sabbath (the seventh day of the week) on the day called by the Romans Saturday, or is it the day the Romans call Sunday?


Ed said...

Did Jesus keep the Sabbath? Yes he did go to the synagog on the Sabbath but he said nothing about the requirement for his followers to do the same. In fact Jesus didn't say much of anything about the Sabbath as if it wasn't very important at all. He said even less about the holy days. Many believe or at least question that Jesus even existed and that he is merely the latest sun god. If that is true then this whole Sabbath/holy day question is totally pointless.

Anonymous said...

Oh Ed, Ed... Just wait until you die and the sun god is there awaiting you with recompense for your words here today!
You will rue the day I tell you!

Ralph said...

I guess different people have different points of view with regard to the Hebrew word "Olam", Strong's H5769 which occurs 438 times in the KJV.


Ralph said...

on September 7, 2015 at 9:51 AM
Anonymous said...
"You will rue the day I tell you!"

C'mon anon, consider that Ed may repent and our merciful Yehovah will

"Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
"Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Byker Bob said...

HWA seemed to prefer antiquated sources. The newer editions, based on later research, revised and changed the materials he had cited as his proofs. His preferences in references coincided with one of his major premises, which was that the human race is not evolving, it is degenerating. Had he always gone for primary sources, it would have been altogether different, but alas, his modus operandi involved simply hunting for the proof texts to support his sacred cow conclusions.

Why is this relevant? The understandings of ancient languages has grown immensely in subsequent decades, and textual criticism has evolved into a science. We now have a much more accurate understanding of Hebrew superlatives. Hebrew was a relatively simple language, as compared to Greek, or even to English. The very act of translating actually results in a paraphrase, sometimes reflecting the complexities of a more further evolved language. This is why you can read in English that "all" of the Amalekites had been annihilated, and several paragraphs or chapters later, read that there are still some of them running around. The Hebrew word translated as "all" meant "for the most part". "Forever" meant for as long as certain conditions existed. King Herod, as an example, was Idumean. He was not of the lineage of David. It is also suspected that the concept of the seventh day sabbath was back edited into the creation narratives because the scribes and priests who revised the ancient manuscripts during the Babylonian captivity had the benefit of knowing about the Sinai Covenant.

But, by all means, everyone should do their own due dilligence and research. If your conscience dictates that, as with John Goodman's character in the Big Lebowski stated "I don't roll on Shabbas", then you should probably stick to that unless new information truly does change your mind.


Anonymous said...

I like the argument that, "Constantine changed it from the 7th day to the 1st day, but then God usurped that day."

Sounds like a commentary from some corny robot battle, in which 'robot Constantine' was able to make 'robot God' his bitch for awhile.

Heck, I just had "a Word of God" in my ear, telling me that a megachurch pastor will give a sermon entitled, "Get Rich by making Jesus Your Bitch!"

(You can hear similar sermons by tuning in to the TBN and Daystar Christian networks.)

Anonymous said...

Yes, it's sad that although most people hold fast to their particular armstrongist splinter, it's only because that's where their friends are.

And, ironic that each group is so cloistered- since all those former WCGers used to be friendly with one another.

I know a person, in a particular splinter, who celebrated a holy day in the same hotel where another splinter was attending. After coming out of the ladies room, she walked into the wrong room by mistake and didn't realize it til after several of her old former church friends gave her the cold shoulder.

Anonymous said...

You wonder how many COG members realize that armstrongism is just a pile of B.S. but continue to attend because their spouse or friends attend or they just feel that they will be condemned to the lake of fire if they leave. How sad that fear has such a powerful hold on people even after all these years.

Anonymous said...

Yup, within Armstrongism, the biggest reasons members now stay in any particular group are friends, family, and fear. (In that order.)

Poor lil' Dead Herbie! He must be turning over in his grave like a shriveled roasted weenie since fear is no longer #1 in the 'Armstrongist cult-retention hit parade'.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:04PM

You wrote: "Ahhh! Do you have "Feast Fever," brethren? That time of year when "God's People" gather to look forward to the millennial reign of Christ...And yet, even at those times of year when they're busy telling themselves these nice bedtime stories..."

Many brethren will have a "feast fever" as they look forward to Christ's millennial reign on this earth and yes, be busy telling themselves bedtime stories about it. It is a form of junk food...not very nourishing, in reality. The Bible does not say Christ will be on earth for that millennium... a type of mickey mouse millennium. We already have some mickey mouse communities on earth today...Disneyland...Disneyworld.

I agree with your conclusion: "...The greatest irony of it all is that the irony of it all is totally lost on them..."


Anonymous said...

Comment was made that: "...The most pathetic mixture is in Missouri..."

If God has any part with the "most pathetic mixture," then God really is a god of confusion; however, all of the groups have exposed themselves as being NOT "of God."

While HWA was alive he was served by many "little helpers," the local elder/pastor hirelings, but now that HWA has been deceased for some approximately 29 years where are all of those little helpers?

Well, many of them have, like HWA, taken a dirt-nap.

And "the rest" of them? Scattered all over the planet in some confused state, as if blind, not knowing what they are doing. Some even strive to become as large as the WCG was!! Can we believe that?

About 15 years ago, a "Living" local elder, a little helper of Rod Meredith asked me what was the name of the Church I was attending? So, I told him, but it was only the publishing name I gave him and it did not have the phrase "church of god" in it. So, he brushed it off as not being any part of God's Church.

Well, "church of god" is a passive phrase. There in NOTHING active about it. "God's Church" is active and puts the word God up front and is first in importance with that phrase.

With the phrase "church of god" the word church is more important than the word "god." Oh, but then we put "Living" in front of the "church of god" and it becomes evident that the word "Living" is more important than the word "church!"

With hindsight, I wish I had had the insight to respond to that "living" "church of god" little helper, one of numerous hirelings on the world scene, by saying something like the following:

"Well, the United group, Philadelphia, Biblical, "living", name any xcog, even Baptist type "churches of god: what about all of them? They all have the phrase "church of god" in their names, so does that make them all to be part of God's Church too?????????????????????"

Of course, had I mentioned that to the little helper 15 years ago he would have dismissed all of them except his "living church of god" group, but as the writer here is all a "most pathetic mixture."

Oh, yes, God knows who are his, but anyone can incorporate under any name they want and any "most pathetic mixture" does not make it/them any part of God's Church.

Despite all of that Christ told us something about God's Church.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

Why cite those verses regarding God's Church, God's sheep...some little flock?

It's because it appears that all of them xcogs caught up in a "most pathetic mixture" either were never in those hands, but seemed to have been spewed out all over the planet.

Look at the bunch that formed United? It split so many times! And then all of those who formed COGWA, who thought God was working with United, came to have doubts and fled, but that is what hirelings do: the little helpers! How do we know that? The Head of God's Church told us what happens when the wolf is around:

:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

The truth is out! The little helpers cared only about themSELVES! They cared not for the though they were not really a part of God's Church....


Anonymous said...

The ACOG's make themselves look even weirder and more laughable when the different splinters choose to put their feast sites in the same cities. The host cites notice that the people in the different groups all look the same. The men with their black brief cases, short sleeve dress shirts and ties. The women with their dowdy circa 1985 dresses and out of date hair styles. They sing the same hymns and preach the same sermons on the same days often at the same times.

And then when services are over they crowd all the nearby restaurants but don't interact with people of other groups (they wouldn't want to be corrupted after all) They each stay in their little elitist groups thinking they are better and more enlightened; dare I say "more chosen" than the other splinter group members.

No true people of God would have such an attitude. They are so small minded, arrogant and prideful that they don't even realize how ridiculous they look to the venders in the host cities.

Anonymous said...

The people who are attracted to armstrongism are/where those that where just trying to make sense of a caotic world. The neatly packaged "truths" on the surface seemed to answer questions and create some order in their uncertain lives. From the inside what they believe makes perfect sense but those on the outside see it as weird. How can you reach those that still embrace armstrongism? The answer is you can't. There must be a spark from with-in to wake-up their sleeping critical thinking part of their mind. Even when confronted by the truth of what armstrongism actually is with-out that spark they will not be able to see armstrongism for what it is.

For those that still believe in armstrongizm--happy feast of tabernacles!

For those that have come out of armstrongism--happy real life!

Ralph said...

on September 9, 2015 at 6:36 PM
Anonymous said..

"For those that have come out of armstrongism--happy real life!"

In addition to that:- For those that have come out of Armstrongism--happy Feast Of Tabernacles


Floyd 1944 said...

Ralph when did you attend AC

Floyd 1944 said...

Oops didn't mean to post twice

Anonymous said...

I really looked forward to the feast. More then anything I looked at it as a vacation. However after 2 or 3 days I felt like going home. The feast to me never lived up to the hype. I got bored with the sermons. The same it seemed each year. I never felt uplifted spiritualy. What I did feel was a sense of dreed if I didn't "stick it out" and stay the full 8 days. I endured the feast thinking I might lose my salvation if I didn't at least try to enjoy it. I tend think that there where and are a lot of people who may not admit it but have/had the same feelings as I did.

Ralph said...

on September 10, 2015 at 2:09 PM
Floyd 1944 said...
"Ralph when did you attend AC"

Floyd, I never attended AC but in my earlier association with WWCG gave it some thought. I exited a local WWCG congregation soon after Tkach senior came to the helm and started dismantling church doctrine.


Glenn said...

The FOT became more tolerable for me once I began ignoring the festival office and making my own reservations for me and my wife...and going to whichever site we wanted to attend. Ended up with rooms on the beach in Florida, on the beach in a great condo in Virginia, a beautiful condo on Lake Tahoe and a couple of decent places at Lake of the Ozarks and at Mount Pocono. My wife and I spent a couple of days in San Antonio with Ted's group the year we left WCG but decided to come home after just a couple of days. That was in 1979, I think, and we have not been back since.

Anonymous said...

I too have to agree with Anon4:59 and Glenn, but not just about the FOT, but about church in general. The sermons really do get boring and tedious. The ministry likes to use Divine Command Theory to demand an audience appear for their speaking performances, and I suppose that only works on those who are convinced that they need the "God Show" every Saturday. But let's face it, church is theatre, and not very good theatre at that. The ministry never came up with anything new, or gave people like me a reason to keep showing up year-in-year-out. Endless repetition of the same ol' stuff I could recite in my sleep certainly isn't doing it.

Nowhere was this thoughtless laziness on the part of the ministry more apparent than when you've got 11 church services crammed into 8 days. The bible never says the middle days are "holy convocations" or that you have to go to church every day. That's just church tradition. So I would take some of those days off and take all-day or overnight trips. People would look at me like I was going to hell. But why? If so, then we were all going to hell for going to work on the middle days of U.B. People get so mixed up and confused. They think that god wants this and god wants that, but it's just the ministry who wants these things. There's no god backing them up. Neither the ministers nor the people are following any god. They're just following the ministers and the herd. It's just the blind leading the blind. I've yet to hear any soteriology that was based upon following the herd. Come to think of it, I've yet to hear any soteriology that made any sense at all!