Monday, November 23, 2015

Rod Meredith Whitewashes The Reason He Was Sent To Hawaii.




Here is Rod Meredith's take on his exile to Hawaii by Herbert Armstrong.  It was NOT his fault! It was other men who wanted him gone.

It was not so much his rotten attitude or his mistreatment of members, but a bunch of pesky men who wanted him gone.

His god was so angry at all of those  men that he has struck them all dead!  Only God's most true servant is still alive.

Sometimes he lets human beings go off a little bit like he lets us humanly go off a little bit; even when we're converted we'll make mistakes for a while and then he'll jerk us up and we'll learn lessons from it. I know when I was sent to Hawaii in exile at one point I had to pray to God and literally fasted, twice a week for a while, asking God to deliver me, and about two or three weeks after I started that constant prayer and fasting – I'd already been studying and fasting a lot, but I intensified it – within about two or two and a half weeks a special, uh… [I] forget all the names of it, notarized, uh, he had to sign on it, Special Deliver Letter: Return Receipt Requested was sent me from Mr. Herbert Armstrong – he was kind of in his exile 'cause of his heart trouble, and other men were taking advantage of him and telling him lies – he sent it from me from Tucson telling me to go back to Pasadena and he appointed me to teach certain classes including the finishing class of the young people before they went into the field; the doctrines of the Worldwide Church of God. He said, "I have confidence that you will teach the right thing," and he brought me back and very soon after that put me back on the Council of Elders. Mr. Armstrong KNEW that something was up; God revealed to him what was happening, then he brought me back without even letting them know. I was back on campus before they could stop it; before they could go to him and try to argue with him. He brought me back and I was there before they even knew about it. Several times in my life, brethren, God has rescued me even when it looked like a judgment was wrong for a while, and God allowed me to have a time out there to study, to pray, to examine myself if [I was] that bad; no, I learned certain lessons. I learned to trust in God no matter what. And sometimes you will have to learn trust in God no matter what, but in the end God will deliver you. I've seen several times, without naming names, where some of these men that did that then, and others, were wishing that I was kicked out of the Church, or I was dead. They're all dead. I'm not rejoicing that, I'm just saying that God took care of it; it's kind of interesting how those things work. "He that digs a pit will fall into it." So if you're taken advantage of, if you put your faith and trust in God and you feel you've been wronged, pry it out to God; fast and pray and God will turn it around. But in the meantime you should try to learn every single lesson you can if you're corrected by the ministry. And I did do that, I said, "God, show me whatever." I prayed and beseeched God to help me do better. And I came back and I did do better, not that I'd ever been turned on Mr. Armstrong; never been disloyal I could just tell you that, PERIOD! But I had been too pushy and maybe talked too much in certain ways, and I was more careful, and God helped me learn lessons from that. It was those lessons that are still blazed in my brain; it was good for me, it was good for everyone concerned. But God turned it around – they didn't turn it around – God turned it around in a way that those men could never have foreseen. He will take care of it! God will guide you in the judgment and if God allows a human or a group of humans to make a wrong                                   
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decision, Christ is the head of the Church; HE will turn it around, he will cause it to work out good – you may have to be patient for a while. (From his August 2015 Sermon)

Contrast that to Herbert Armstrong's letter to Rod Meredith while he was exiled to Hawaii.



LETTER FROM HWA TO RCM:

WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD WORLD HEADQUARTERS

PASADENA, CALIFORNIA 91123

HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG                                 Tucson, March 14, 1980
President and Pastor

Dear Rod:
Your letters of February 1 and March 7 show, I am sorry to say, that either you still cannot understand WHY the living Head of God's Church, Jesus Christ, had you sent to Hawaii, or you are unwilling to see or admit — and I prefer to believe the former.
There is no point in telling you this letter is written in LOVE for YOU — for you ought to know that without my saying it. But out of love for you, and DESIRE to see you back as PART OF GOD'S TEAM, working in full co-operation and right attitude with the rest o[f] us; I shall take time and space to make it clear once for all this time.
I have tried to hold the mirror up for you to see yourself as others see you. But still you don't see in that mirror the same YOU that others see-or are unwilling — I hope not the latter. But now I must be SURE! I shall speak plainly, candidly. If this letter hurts, I quote from a letter the Apostle Paul sent to brethren at Corinth: "For though I made you angry with a letter, I do not repent... for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance, for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
"For godly sorry worketh repentance to salvation ... but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (II Cor. 7:8-10).
Now I'm going to come with plainness of speech as Paul said — in I Corinthians 2.
To overseas audiences, and to Kings, Emperors, Presidents and Prime Ministers, I simmer down the WAY OF GOD and the WAY OF THE WORLD in two very small words — "GET" and "GIVE." This world is geared to the way of "GET." That is the way of VANITY, SELF-centeredness, coveting, lust and greed, jealousy and envy, rebellion against authority, competition which leads to strife, violence and war. The way of "GIVE" is OUT-flowing LOVE, harmonious co-operation, serving, helping, sharing, giving.
In spiritual PRINCIPLE, the latter is the way of God's Law, the Ten Commandments-the former the way of Satan. I tell them that ALL the Unsolvable problems, troubles and evils in the world are caused by the fact the world lives by the "GET" principle.

Rod, WHY have so many who have worked [with you] said that you rub the fur the wrong way? You are DOCTRINALLY correct, But in II Corinthians Paul says we are not to live by the strict letter of the Law, but by the SPIRIT or obvious INTENT — the basic PRINCIPLE of it (II Cor. 3:6http://www.logos.com/images/Corporate/LibronixLink_dark.png). You are a model of doctrinal correctness according to the LETTER — the strictness of the letter — but you do overlook the SPIRIT from the heart. You won the mile in a state high-school meet, You had know[n,] as Satan injects into us all from childhood, the spirit of competition. You b[e]came a COMPETITOR. In conversion you learned and accepted the strictness of the letter of God's Commandments. You wrote a good booklet on the Ten Commandments. But now I hold the mirror up for you to see in yourself what SO MANY who know you wIll see in you — the SPIRIT of COMPETITION is still there!

You are not going to like this, Rod. Members of your family will resent it. But I am the chosen apostle of Jesus Christ and in His name, I have to say these things to you, for I want to have you with us IN GOD'S KINGDOM — and there will be no contentions — no spirit of competition there! No one is going to be there who strives for himself to take over the CHIEF SEAT!

Jesus Christ through me elevated you to the chief seat (which you had come to me suggesting over the ministry of God's Church in what we then called CAD, you were a harsh task-master over the ministers. You, yourself, find it difficult and perhaps impossible to TAKE what you dished out. Dozens of ministers would testify to that. You rubbed the fur the wrong way! That has been your life-style!
When you were made second Vice President, it became a standing joke among leaders at Pasadena, the saying, "Well, after all, I am the second Vice President."

Jesus said, "And whosoever of you will be chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even th[e] Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister" (Mark 10:44-45). Jesus said further, "Beware of the scribes which wear long robes, ...and [love] the highest seats in the synagogue, and the chief rooms (offices-ranks-positions), at feasts" (Luke 20:46). Rod, am I qualified to call to your attention, these things? I came into the ministry more than fifty years ago, back in Oregon. I was never a member of the Church of God, Seventh Day, headquartered at Stanberry, Missouri. The church of Dugger and Dodd at Salem, W. Virginia, was an off-shoot, and, like Ted's present "church". Ray Cole's, and other's, NOT the true Church of God. However, I never became a member of the Salem offshoot. Half of the Oregon brethren (while all were in Stanberry) had incorporated as a separate church, "The Oregon Conference." I was ordained by them. Twice I was paid by them-about four months at $20 a week, and 15 mon[n]ths later, from February to July, 1933, at $3 per week.

But I did CO-OPERATE with the Stanberry people, from 1927 until ordained by the Oregon Conference, June, 1931-without salary, I co-operated with the Salem people after the start of the present Worldwide Church Of God (then called the Radio Church of God), and WITHOUT RECEIVING FROM THEM A PENNY OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT in any way, from 1934 (after both the World [T]omorrow radio program was going, and The PLAIN TRUTH was being published) until August, 1937. And after that, while building the present Church of God, Philadelphia era, I co-operated at my own expense with the Stanberry (Sardis era) people until October, 1945.
I DID NOT, as Ted claims (he was 5 years old when I ceased the co-operation with them because of the pressure of the Work in the present Church of God). I did not leave them to start something of my own. I continued working with them-GIVING, not getting-at my own exp[e]nse co-operating — GIVING — as long as my time allowed.

But the point I want to make is this: I SERVED — I HELPED — I co-operated. And I did not have or seek any high position. I always considered myself, just as the Sardis ministers did, that I was the LEAST of the ministers-the TAIL-ENDER!

When I conducted the campaign in the Firbute school house (36 seats) in 1933, I stopped receiving even the $3 per week salary from the Oregon Conference.

As the tail-end LEAST of the ministers, Christ started me in that little 36-seat school house, I constantly suffered persecution-first from Stanberry ministers, then again from Salem, W. Va.-ministers, then again from Stanberry. The 19 members we had from that Firbutte campaign was the START of the present Worldwide Church of God. The brethren at the start were my own converts-my own children in the Lord. NEVER in all my ministerial experience, I once sought a higher position.

Jesus Christ gave me the Pastor position at the start. The Church grew, as I held other campaigns in Eugen[e] and in Alvadore. Finally I appointed and ordained two other elders, one a preaching elder and one a local elder, at Eugene, beside two deacons. In those early years of this, our present Church, I served as pastor of a Stanberry church near Jefferson, Oregon. There I appoin[t]ed and ordained two elders, and two deacons — for THEIR church. All the time I "GAVE" — I did not "GET." Before that I had learned how Paul says, in II Corinthians 3:6, that we must obey the SPIRIT or obvious INTENT of the Law, not the letter. I had dedicated my life to "GIVE" and not to "GET." As the Work grew, Christ used me in founding Ambassador College. After their graduation I ordained m[y] son Dick, Raymond Cole, Herman Hoeh, Raymon[d] Mc Nair and his brother. From there you know the history, Your uncle and yourself came along about next, then others. I ne[v]er sought or moved up to a higher rank or office. Jesus Christ raised up the Church through me. I came to the position I hold as the simple result of what the living Head of this Church raised up through me.

But others have sought higher Position. There has been, it seems, NO END of worldly POLITICS at Pasadena Headquarters. As Christ blessed and prospered God's Church and Work, and we came to have better than $100,000,000 of net worth, and a near $80 million a year income, there devel[o]ped a mad scramble for ever higher and higher rank. Sure, I made some mistakes. I naively TRUSTED men like Al Portune, David Antion, my own son, Wayne Cole, many others no longer with us. But now, f[o]r the first time since about 1967, there is HARMONY and a spirit of Co-oper[a]tion at Pasadena. AND I AM DETERMINED TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!

Now back to you.

You have demonstrated, as seen clearly by many others, a spirit of rank-consciousness. In plain language that is coveting higher authority. I do not think you have coveted more money. I do not think more money is what Ted, Al Portune, Dave Antion, Ray Cole, Wayne or others really coveted. They coveted POWER — more authority — like a 15-year old boy coveting the POWER of a steering wheel and a throttle. We have gone through a House CLEANING. We now have PEACE and CO-OPERATION at Pasadena. And eight to ten others on the executive level there have voiced to me their fears and convictions that if you now come back to Pasadena, that PEACE, and HARMONY, and CO-OPERATION will be turned once again into constant contention, irritation, and HARM TO GOD'S WORK! I do not like to tell you this. I haven't mentioned this to all, but to those I mentioned your return, that is the unanimous feeling.

If I have you come back as Dean of the Faculty, several say you would delegate most or the real duties of the Dean, and devote yourself to trying to make yourself the LEADER and boss of the College, and even of the Chur[ch.] You have — and all are aware of it — been possessed with the idea that I will not live much longer, and that YOU are the "FIRST among equals" to take my place.
Rod, in frankest candor, JESUS CHRIST will NEVER put any one at the head of His Work on earth who is competitive, covetous of power and status, and self-righteous. In brutal frankness, you lack the charisma to lead God's work You do not attract-as I said before, you REP[EL-] people. You are a harsh taskmaster over those under you. THAT IS YOUR RECORD!
When I wr[o]te you [] that a change of ATTITUDE is needed, perhaps I have at last made myself clear.

You have said that you only said a few statements you probably should not have made, but you didn't think you had said enough to warrant this six months' leave of absence. Rod, I'm very well aware of the amount of words you said against Christ's chosen apostle. But Jesus said, "of the abundance of the heart (attitude) the mouth speaketh." What you did say, affirmed to me by two witnesses, was sufficient, coupled with many other things, to show me the [a]ttitude back of those words. You try to c[o]nvince me of how glowingly and how numerous were the times you have shown loyalty by the things you have said "hundreds" or "thousands of times". But in this regard your attitude reflected [] OMISSION rather than the sparse and sparing things you did say. Ted was leading a conspiracy to destroy my credibility before the ministers and the brethren by saying nothing about me — as if the human leader did not exist — and blowing himself up. Radio and TV programs went under his name-no longer The World [T}omorrow. He even started correspondence under HIS OWN [Letter head] NAME, rather than that of the Church or College. Now I do not want any of our ministers flattering me, or trying to see how often they can mention my name.

But neither do I want it deliberately AVOIDED in both speaking and writing, as if I did not exist. Jesus Christ — NOT MAN — has made me the human leader under Christ. A leader cannot be a leader if all under him IGNORE his very existence. I never did want anyone to go out of his way deliberately to mention me — as you profess to have done. That is not what I mean. But I do not want the other extreme, caused by a competitive feeling, and deliberate non-mention.

Now another thing you cover in your letters. You imply that in what few things you did say, you were FOLLOWING MY ORDERS. Rod, that is hypocrisy. It is not a matter that I CHANGED MY MIND. Let me tell you how it [ac]tually was. When I told you and Raymond, and perhaps another or two, that IF I were no longer among the living, I wanted you to be su[re] Ted did not slip in and take over. At that time, I had heard SO MUCH talk about my dying right away, perhaps started by Ted, that for a while I was overly conscious of it.

It is not that later I changed my mind. But as time went on I began to realize very deeply that God has not prepared ANYONE to take my place. You, Rod, could never take it. I know that is 100% contrary to your own estimate of yourse[l]f. You have a WILL to lead, but not the qualifications. I came to realize that God raise[d] me [from the dead-f]rom total heart failure-in August, 1977, FOR A PURPOSE.

I have felt like the Apostle Paul, when he said earlier in life it would be more profitable for him to depart this life — and in the next split-second of consciousness, be with Christ in the resurrection, but it was more needful that he stay.

I did not CHANGE my mind. I did come to realize, as God caused me to realize, that He had raised me up as His instrument to raise up His present Church and Work — and that Work is not finished. So after my heart had completely stopped, my breath — no pulse — no blood-pressure — by mouth-to-mouth resuscitation I was br[o]ught back. I have not said I now believe God will keep me alive until Christ comes. I have said and I say now again, I do believe He will keep me alive AS LONG AS HE NEEDS ME!

You have taken the attitude that "some one GOT [you]." No one did but your own self.

I have tried here to make clear what I mean by a CHANGE OF ATTITUDE. I sincerely hope you "get the message" this time. Self-pity is not your need. A change of ATTITUDE from "GET" to "GIVE" is! If this letter does not get through to you, I shall not try again. So far you have not admitted a wrong attitude. Your RIGHTEOUSNESS you have maintained! But it has been only so much "filthy rags" to GOD! God said-rather, Christ to His disciples, that he who would seek the top seat should be the SERVANT of all. We should be as a little child.

So far, four months or more of your leave of absence has profited you NOTHING! Rod, in a candor, HAVE YOU EVER REALY REPENTED? To repent means much more than being sorry, or remorseful. It means a CHANGE OF HEART — a CHANGE OF ATTITUDE — a CHANGE FROM "GET" TO "GIVE." From competition, vanity, coveting power and position, to harmonious co-operation. BELIEVE ME, there is PEACE, and HARMONY at Pasadena now. Our men there do not want it disturbed. I have held up the mirror with BRUTAL frankness-in LOVE not only for you but also for GOD'S WORK! The Work is getting along wonderfully well now-without you. It can go on growing and pleasing Jesus Chris[t] an[d] prospering under His blessing WITHOUT YOU. I have written you are not coming back until I am CONVINCED BY THE FRUITS of a real REPENTANCE, and CHANGE OF ATTITUDE. I hope at last I have MADE IT PLAIN.

In deep LOVE as a father to a son,

In Jesus' name.
Some have claimed that HWA was hood winked by Stan Rader and others into writing this letter and did not mean to send Meredith to Hawaii.

If you remember from above, Rod Meredith blames his exile on various men at Pasadena HQ, one of which was Stan Rader.

Aaron Dean weighed in on this in the late 1990's and says that Rod Meredith is not being truthful in his excuses.



That is the letter that was in Mr. Armstrong's files. HWA did talk to not only RCM [Roderick C. Meredith], but others about how he was wrong about Stan [Rader]. Mr. A didn't apologize to people, and had other ways of apologizing—some of which could be misinterpreted. His discussion with Rod about SRR [Stanley R. Rader], I imagine Rod took to be an apology. Of course he wanted to see it this way. To RCM it seemed either he was right or SRR was right. Since SRR turned out to be a 'bad guy' RCM assumed he was vindicated. This helps to justify why he maintains he should be in charge. He never understood the issue was not about him and SRR, but him seeing himself as next in line.


It did not change RCM's problem, as you can see from the letter RCM's problems stemmed from well before SRR. The fact that HWA never reappointed RCM to a position of power shows that he knew RCM still had the problem. The COE [Council of Elders] was never a power body, although many seemed to see it as that.


RCM took the fact that those he disliked (and it is interesting to note they were always the ones between him and the top) turned out to have problems, so it seemed a vindication of his problem. Mr. Armstrong still felt the same way about RCM up until his death.


One thing HWA did say, was that "Rod will be personally loyal to me" (HWA). Of course RCM wanted that same loyalty to himself, never realizing that what HWA really wanted was loyalty to GOD. That is why HWA, amid the confusion of the receivership did appoint RCM over Church Administration in '79.

Unfortunately RCM began immediately to try to solidify his position as heir to the church, and had to be removed within the year, and was never reappointed to a high administrative position. It was RCM's own words that caused him to be sent to Hawaii, not anyone else. I pray that he eventually can come to see himself, just as I pray for so many other self appointed leaders.



— Aaron Dean


See:  What Did Herbert Armstrong Really Think About Rod Meredith

See:  March 14, 1980 Letter From Herbert W Armstrong to Roderick C Meredith



 



 


33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Rod says he fasted a lot, but why? For self! Is that why one fasts to God?

God said: "...I had to pray to God and literally fasted, twice a week for a while, asking God to deliver me, and about two or three weeks after I started that constant prayer and fasting – I'd already been studying and fasting a lot, but I intensified it..."

It is all about self, himself. God does not want to hear it. He didn't want to hear it from Rod! That kind of a fast is unacceptable to God. How do we know? Because the Bible tells us so:

"Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high."

Rod was striving to make his "voice to be heard on high," and God tells us not to do that, because it is unacceptable.

Jesus Christ did an acceptable fast to God, but what is that like? Rod could learn from these words:

:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Rod needs to study these words before he ever fasts again and apply them to himself and how he deals with others, but that isn't all. There is more!

:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

Rod needs to evaluate how his life is involved with the yokes of putting forth of the finger.......and speaking vanity! Fasting isn't just about self and making one's voice to be heard on high.

If Rod can "clean up his own act," then he might experience some of the following:

:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

Rod (who left his ministerial credentials behind with the WCG), and any who have followed his example of fasting, may want to consider what God inspired Isaiah to tell us about fasting. After all, why waste our time fasting for self, when God already knows it is unacceptable...

John

Byker Bob said...

Unfortunately it is a tendency of human nature for all of us to whitewash ourselves, especially when our credibility is on the line.

Since the LCG members seem to be conducting the debate that they can't have after their own sabbath services right here nstead, at least they have 3 separate testimonies to digest as they consider whether RCM embodies the type of authority to which they should continue to submit.

I had read the HWA letter several times in the past, and it seemed obvious from the content that it was not only written for the benefit of Rod himself. It had the aura of a demonstration to other top ministers that HWA was handling a problem that they had found irksome. Surely they must have received their own copies. So much for clergy confidentiality!

By the way, this problem, like GTA's problem, became way worse than it ever needed to be, beause HWA allowed it to go uncorrected for far too long. It is indicative of a flaw in HWA's management style.

BB

Floyd 1944 said...

I don't know if Rod is still harping on his exile to Hawaii or not. But that was over 35 years ago give it a rest. I was there at the time and there was a lot of back stabbing going on. There might have been some trying to get Rod but Rod did have a reputation of being hard, proud, and thinking he was above the others. I focus on how LCG is today. Rod has not changed, he has to bring up the past over and over. He is obsessed with being in charge I am so glad I don't have to put up with that anymore

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith brought this up in his sermon in August of this year! I sat there and listened to it. He blatantly LIED in the version he gave to LCG members. He is unfit to be leading any church. HWA saw that and that was the reason he was shipped out, not because Rader or anyone else was out to get him. Armstrong knew he was unfit to lead then just as he is unfit now.

Connie Schmidt said...

In Aaron Deans letter he says:

"HWA did not apologize to people"

Wow, what a paragon of humility for the supposed "Elijah, Apostle, Two Witness etc". I hope he was able to apologize to God.

Anonymous said...

Ugh. RCM rewriting history, re: HWA presuming to evaluate someone else's ministerial credentials in the first place. Really, do we want to bother with that debate? What a joke.

Ralph said...

on November 23, 2015 at 11:02 AM

John said:
-quite a lot.-

I have no axe to grind but I do express my appreciation for what 'John' has said and the way he has put it all together. Also, in addition to that, he has used scriptural references to support his theme, others could take note, presenting a very polished, clear and acceptable comment

cheers
ralph.f

ps. I wonder who John really is.

Black Ops Mikey said...

"Rod Meredith... is unfit to be leading any church."

So, thankfully, he's not.

He's leading a cult.

Scared by LCG said...

HWA shaped the RCM Frankenstein monster. The infamous letter shows that HWA knew how demented RCM was in earlier days and encouraged him to continue in his carnage. Knowing all that is written about RCM in this letter, the only responsible thing HWA could have done was permanently remove RCM from the ministry. But, that would have required HWA to be a good shepherd of the flock. Exiling RCM and publicly shaming him, via leaking this letter, served to make RCM more grotesquely vindictive. Thanks HWA! RCM’s vanity, evil ass nature, and ensuing decades, caused him to grow from Frankenstein into his current Pagliacci role.

Byker Bob said...

What kind of "mentor" sends one of his people on a spiritual exile to "paradise", as Thomas Magnum always called Hawaii?

I am sure we would understand if a person were stripped of his rank and responsibilities, and sent to humbly minister to the poor for a season, but Hawaii??? Wassup with that?

BB

Anonymous said...

Curious. No, SCARY --

In all this self-serving chatter they do, in all this intrigue, never a question regarding whether they are really MINISTERS at all.

That any of this happened disqualifies them, each one. From being considered, from being believed in.

Anonymous said...

"I have no axe to grind but I do express my appreciation for what 'John' has said and the way he has put it all together. Also, in addition to that, he has used scriptural references to support his theme, others could take note, presenting a very polished, clear and acceptable comment."

Hmm. Ralph doesn't have an axe to grind? Is he sure about that?

But he's right, I really shouldn't be commenting without using scriptural references to support my statements. Which is why, in the future, I will be quoting from the Qur'an and the Vedas, among others. Then, hopefully, my comments will meet with his approval.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Gerald Flurry was sent to Quincy, Washington.

Now there's a punishment to fit the crime.

No stripping of credentials, though.

It was an imperfect system.

Anonymous said...

I still feel sad that my dad when he was an elderly man got thrown out of 'Gods true church' for having a messy house. The message was that a Christian wouldn't live like that. Really it wasn't that bad. When he died and I went thru his stuff he had kept letters from various ministers in 'Gods true church' discussing whether he had repented or had Gods spirit.

Anonymous said...

I'm waiting for the RCM/LCG zealots to chime in on this topic. I've heard RCM in his sermons thank people for their loyalty. It always seems to be for their loyalty to him or the ministry/LCG. I can't recall him thanking people for their loyalty to God. Loyalty to man is big with him, as you can see from the LCG COE and the others he has surrounded himself with in Charlotte. Are the people who followed him out of WCG/GCG only loyal to the man?

Anonymous said...

note he says he fasted, but he never confessesses to any specific wrong doing; he resorts to the blame it on eve argument; and frankly the man needs to be very careful how he uses the "their all dead" argument considering the very obvious and ironic tragedies that have happened in his life, and how they pertain DIRECTLY to his callous attitude towards lay people in regards to faith healing...

Ralph said...

on November 24, 2015 at 6:47 AM
Anonymous said...

"Which is why, in the future, I will be quoting from the Qur'an and the Vedas, among others. Then, hopefully, my comments will meet with his approval."

Ahh, Anonymous, I like you. You make me to larrf! (spelled with an L)

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Herbert was an asshole (sociopath). So is Rod.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Anonymous 11:35 AM said, "I still feel sad that my dad when he was an elderly man got thrown out of 'Gods true church' for having a messy house".

MY COMMENT - That is horrible. Typical WCG/ACOG judgmental attitude. I am sure the young Ambassador College educated idiot minister is clueless how difficult it is for the elderly on fixed incomes to maintain their houses as they age. Of course, double tithing plus all the other offerings hounded by WCG under threat of eternal damnation before food and clothing needs doesn't leave much money left to deal with the "messy house".

Actually, I would call this act by "God's true Church" an act of "Elder Abuse".

Richard

Byker Bob said...

Very sad that someone who probably had a gentle, docile spirit would be put out of a church for a messy (and this is a very subjective judgment) house.

Probably the biggest mistake ACOG members made was allowing these cretins who called themselves "God's ministers" to invade their personal space. People laugh now about old stories regarding ministers coming into members' homes and checking the cabinets for white flour and white sugar, but this messy house outrage is evidence that the same invasiveness continues to this day. We also know that the spiritual bastards asked deep, embarrassingly personal questions regarding peoples' sex lives, bringing out sins that were repented of and forgiven years ago.

Now that we know that these scam-meisters who called themselves ministers were in reality nothing, wouldn't it have been nice to have demanded that they leave our homes, and to have expressed a certain amount of righteous outrage at their impertinence and presumptuousness? Obviously, a Christian would need to do this in a right attitude, even though it might have been more satisfying on a personal level to simply say "Take your church and shove it, Mofo!"

BB

Anonymous said...

Great point on "loyalty". "God values loyalty. God expects loyalty. Are you disloyal? God hates that." Even the lower ministry preaches this. It is never outright stated, but the intent is clearly to foster loyalty to RCM and LCG. You would be disloyal if you left. Meredith is a genius at propaganda. He has to resort to propaganda; he has little faith in God to bring people to the church as God sees fit.

Anonymous said...

"By the way, this problem, like GTA's problem, became way worse than it ever needed to be, beause HWA allowed it to go uncorrected for far too long. It is indicative of a flaw in HWA's management style."

Huh? So are you saying HWA should have yanked RCM up and thrown him under the bus rather than hold the mirror up for him in a less authoritarian way of helping him see what others were seeing? On the one hand, HWA is damned because he was a tyrant who was known to kick people out without a hearing; on the other hand, HWA is damned because he didn't act quickly enough. Maybe the situation was a little more complex than we Monday-morning quarterbacks can see.

Anonymous said...

Meredith likely fasted to implore God to show HWA the error of his ways instead of fasting to be shown insight on the personal change he himself needed to make.

RCM is utterly and completely incapable of admitting error.

Anonymous said...

I'm not even convinced that a lot of LCG members are "loyal" to RCM. I think a large number of them are loyal to their family and friends and only stay in LCG so that they don't disappoint them.

They know that if they decide to leave LCG, they will lose people they love so it's a tough decision.

In a lot of cases, that's what keeps them "loyal".

Anonymous said...

I am so sorry I didn't research Rod Meredith before I ignorantly joined his church. If I had, I would have avoided so much pain, confusion and heartache.

I'm not even sure this information was on the web back in those days.

I'm glad it is open to the public now and I pray it will help others make a more informed decision than I did.

I sincerely hope that that others will read this and come to know what kind of monster Meredith is and how utterly corrupt his organization is.

I believe in keeping the Sabbath, the Commandments, the Holy Days and God's laws to this day. I consider myself blessed in that regard (although I'm sure many on this blog would not agree).

I often wonder how many people for which Rod Meredith is personally responsible for turning away from the truth as a result of his vindictive mean spirit, his lust for power and control, his favoritism, entitlement, nepotism, greed, inability to admit wrong doing, tyranny, grudge-holding, angry, hate-filled, carnal personality.

Ralph said...

on November 25, 2015 at 7:19 AM
Anonymous said...

"I believe in keeping the Sabbath, the Commandments, the Holy Days and God's laws to this day. I consider myself blessed in that regard...."

You have my vote, with a mention of the blessings involved.
BTW I have never had anything to do with Rod Meredith.

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

anon november 25, 2015 at 7:19 am, those are pretty stunning comments: i couldnt have said it better; i hope people will get something from it...

but despite the certain specific flaws of lcg, some people need to be a part of an organization to maintain spiritual stability; i was not one of them, and you seem to also be similar in that way to myself, or i to you, but there is such a concept as the need for some to be within the body...

unfortunately the body is often administered by the carnal minded; yet we should not allow their sins to remove our Crowns: soon enough the tares will be removed...

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Only an idiot like Rod Meredith would consider being forced by your employer (WCG) to go Hawaii as being "exiled". Punish me more please!

Richard

Anonymous said...

The bible tells us to call no man master or father. Yet HWA kept calling himself the 'chosen apostle,' radiating a similar aura to master. And aren't all church members 'chosen' by God?

Anonymous said...

Stepping back, it seems that Armstrong used RM as a battle axe to keep the troops in line. But Rod went too fat so Armstrong had to reign him in, but only some. Otherwise why not simply fire him rather than send him to a holiday destination.
But the curious question remains as to why people join a church with such a flawed leader, when better alternatives are available. My sad conclusion, it's what church members secretly want. They hope their leaders evilness will be turned on their betters, satisfying their Cain versus Abel feelings. People in the church always warm up to twisted members, and are hostile to the responsible. That's the voice of experience of many years in Gods church.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with 6:07.

I think the answer to "why people join a church with such a flawed leader" (LCG) is primarily two-fold.

One, they feel LCG is "doing the work more powerfully" than any other group so they are willing to overlook how horrible the overlords behave.

Two, they are too ignorant to know RCM's history before pledging allegiance to LCG and then too cowardice to walk away from all their friends (and in some cases family) once they realize how toxic LCG truly is.

Byker Bob said...

Tagging on to those last two comments, if people are capable of anthropomorphism, they can certainly use their own mental devices to create the church they are attending in their own falsely idealistic image.

BB

Anonymous said...

To those who think LCG is "doing the work more powerfully" than any other group, you have been brainwashed by Rod Meredith into thinking that preaching the gospel is the work. It is only a small, preliminary step in the work of God. It is not even mentioned in Matthew 28's Great Commission, and is preliminary to a much greater goal in Mark's.

RCM preaches this propaganda for the sole reason of keeping people from leaving. That, and "We are the only ones practicing God's government."

Rod Meredith is indeed a master propagandist. "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." (Joseph Goebbels) The thing that amazes all of us who used to be part of LCG is how clear it is once you leave. We shake our heads at the blind naivete of the people Meredith has duped. And how willing they are to be duped by him.