Saturday, July 22, 2017

Gerald Weston: God is NOT Mocked! The End Is Near!

Gerald Weston recently wrote another one of his heart warming co-worker letters.  It was filled with all kinds of loving, grace filled wonderful things about the creation around us and the beauty of human life.  NOT!

It was yet another fear laden blitzkrieg on how the United States economy is ready to collapse, and financial doom and gloom are ready to befall Americans.

Of course, Weston's Bible says this is so.  It has predicted it.  We have all seen how well Church of God leaders have used the Bible to make predictions and point to "fulfilled" prophecy, as they interpret it.  It is easy for prophecy addicts to sit in their basements pouring over countless tomes of prophecy and history as they make vainglorious attempts to pinpoint events in history to "prophecies" listed in the Bible.

Current events clearly demonstrate the accuracy of the Bible, but the complete fulfillment of this prophecy is yet in the future, and we simply do not know the exact time. What we do believe is that the time is near. A number of other prophecies must take place first, but we are rapidly getting there. Why will the world get into such desperate straits? 
The Bible stands out above humanly devised predictions and it tells us that unless our Western nations repent of gross immorality, disaster will follow. As it tells us in Leviticus 26:14–16, when we come to the place—and we are now there—that we despise God’s commandments, terror will be the result. The terrorism we see in living color on our television and computer screens was prophesied and is no accident! As in all of mankind’s ills, it is the direct result of rejecting our Creator! The handwriting is on the wall. 
If the bible stands out above all human predictions, then why do James Malm and Bob Thiel continue to spread their devious lies about prophecy?  Prediction addiction is the name of the game in the Church of God. Who can forget professional liar and prophecy addict, Gerald Waterhouse and his 3-4 hour sermons on prophecy?  For four hours this old windbag would spout incredibly absurd predictions and as of July 2017, not a single one of them has ever come to pass.
How much time remains for us to proclaim the true Gospel to this sick world and to warn the Israelite nations remains to be seen, but time appears to be short. For decades, we have warned of a rising Germany. Today, Germany stands out not only as the leader of Europe, but more and more as the most respected country in the world. And God tells us in His word that the modern-day Assyrians will be used to punish our rebellious peoples. Twice in the Twentieth Century we failed to learn our lesson. The next time it will be more painful. And lest anyone misunderstand, this is not “Germany bashing.” They will fulfill God’s will, for as it says in Isaiah 10:5–7, “Woe to Assyria [ancient Germany] the rod of My anger and the staff in whose hand is My indignation. I will send him against an ungodly nation, and against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, to seize the spoil, to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. Yet he does not mean so, nor does his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy, and cut off not a few nations.” Oh yes, God will deal with Germany later, but first Germany must fulfill God’s will. 
Rod Meredith and Gerald Weston seem to be incapable of finding beauty in the world around them. Instead, the world is a big cesspool of filth which is kind of like LCG Charlotte HQ, I guess.  The big bogeyman Germany is set to arise and whip the United States into submission as it carts LCG members off to concentration camps.
Dear co-workers, we cannot know how long it will take for these events to completely materialize. What we know is that God is not mocked! We will reap what we sow! When the conditions are right, sudden calamity will descend upon the Israelite nations, for time and again God tells us through His prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah that it will happen suddenly. “Therefore this iniquity shall be to you like a breach ready to fall, a bulge in a high wall, whose breaking comes suddenly, in an instant” (Isaiah 30:13). We see the bulge in the wall.
Persecution is ever at the door of the various Church of God's.  Where would the church be without a good scare factor story to scare members into giving more money?  After all, the entire purpose of the church is to raise money for that final push.  A final push that always seems to elude them.

Fellow co-workers, time is short! How short we cannot say, but I hope all of you can see that the world is getting more and more unstable as our populations become more and more corrupt and deranged in their thinking. God instructs us and gives this warning: “Deliver those who are drawn toward death, and hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, ‘Surely we did not know this,’ does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?” (Proverbs 24:11–12). 
Our Western nations are stumbling toward the slaughter. For that matter, so is the entire world. Jesus predicted that it would get so bad that, unless He steps in at the end of the age, no man would survive (Matthew 24:21–22). Few will heed the warning, but if we see what is happening, God expects us to sound the warning trumpet (Ezekiel 33:2–9). That is what we are doing at Tomorrow’s World. I believe you see the handwriting on the wall and that is why you became a co-worker with us.
Weston ends with this:

Your prayers are needed and will be appreciated as we have a big job to do to reach this world with a warning and a message of hope. 
A message of hope?  Tales of financial disaster, Invading Germans, corrupt government, disease, famine, war...all good sounds bites useful to a COG leaders advantage/


nck said...


There are times I cannot believe the stuff you find out there.
Having sufficient distance to it all, regarding it as a source of entertainment, I must not cease to understand that the, same old same old, is still real to many.

This harping on the dangers of the "Germans" is so outdated and at a time of new mass communication experiments served as a great propaganda tool for the US, as one of the 4 occupying powers of Germany until 1992.

New times brought new challenges. I like for instance how BB points to that big ice cube drifting away from its origin.

Personally I have witnessed several pivotal moments in human history real time. The changing of the Soviet flag on the Kremlin, chopping at the Berlin Wall with border guards observing, the withdrawal of and standing down of millions of soldiers on and from European soil, the pivotal moment of 911 and the invoking of Nato article 5 etcetera etcetera

Only one time in my life I have truly felt and experienced that "the end was near."

In those fateful months of oktober/november 2008, with banks collapsing all around me, governments stepping out in faith determining asset values over a weekend that would normally take months to evaluate, governments not knowing what to do but bail out to save nations and peoples, Iceland being reduced from a Banking Walhallah to a fishing nation, Dubai going absolutely flat broke and the United Arab Emirates stepping in, car sales dropping by 33%, bank stocks losing value with sometimes 25% per day.

That was the time my mind often pondered the verses from Revelation.

"For in a single hour such fabulous wealth has been destroyed!” Every shipmaster, passenger, and sailor, and all who make their living from the sea, will stand at a distance and cry out at the sight of the smoke rising from the fire that consumes her, saying, ‘What city was ever like this great city?"

Today reading the "script" on the Germans I do not feel shocked but more like a "veteran" who survived the beaches of Normandy, having to sit and listen to some 18 year old cadet explaining the perils of war.

I would like to call on everyone to seek practical applications for solving todays challenges. I know, the Wrights crashed and burned several times during the proces and they did not solve many problems at all. But in the end, they played some part for us to be able to move to any place on earth within 24 hours today.

People are able to contribute to progress in limited but pivotal ways.

Hell, if for one, the Assyrians are the ones who proved this of all people, when Jonah in his depressed state of reality refused to see possibilities and the soaring of the human spirit. Of all people the Assyrians changed heart if even for a short while and perhaps even in that short period made ammendments in law or technology from which we profit until this day.

I am not closing my eyes for evil, I am not naive. Wars will occur in the future, The Jonah story may be a literary masterpiece and may not have happened in history. As nck recalls the lesson of president Kennedy: "We are ALL Assyrians, ask not what your government can do for you, but be that government and make that change."


Minimalist said...

"To get this vital message out, tithe-serfs, is going to require more Money"
"Your money will will go to this cause - (minus 'handling' charges):
"Which, as usual, includes huge Secret Executive Salaries at HQ"

Tick Tock Goes The Clock said...

The ACOG cults should stop dwelling on "end of the age" sermons and start treating their members with more dignity and respect instead of walking all over them like common trash. I for one am a victim of abuse by ministers and members who talked down to me like I was nothing but a dog they didn't want around. I hope this is the last days because I hate life.

Anonymous said...

Weston wrote: "...How much time remains for us to proclaim the true Gospel to this sick world and to warn the Israelite nations remains to be seen, but time appears to be short..."

In northern portions of the USA "the winter is near!" Every passing day we are another day closer to that end, but that end will come. Time will tell!

But the Living group proclaim "the true Gospel?" What is the "true gospel?" How do you know that you aren't, just like so many of the xcogs, just preaching another gospel and another Jesus b/c you are driven by another spirit...a lying spirit. The "fruit" of your prophecies, to date, prove your organization is driven by a false spirit. Do you need more time to disprove that?

So far, what "good" as the spewing out of your gospel done for anybody?

Here's a prophecy I would put my money on if I were a betting individual:

"But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." Matthew 15:13

Hint: Global was rooted up! Your organization is a clone of Global, aka "Go Baal" by others. Perhaps, if it weren't for $$$$$$ flowing into your man-made group, composed of individuals who left their ministerial credentials behind in WCG/Global, you and your organization would have been rooted up by now.

What is the gospel, good news, when you are predicting your soon-coming of a Mickey Mouse Millennium with your Jesus reigning on earth for 1,000 years?

The real Jesus Christ told you/us that He would be at His Father's right hand until all enemies are put down and the last enemy is death, and we should know that that reality can't occur until sometime AFTER Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit and Satan again deceives the world (where was those of your Living group then?), peace was disrupted, wars will occur and Jerusalem will be taken over, etc.?

You preach "another gospel with another Jesus!" If Jesus were to reign on earth for 1,000 years, as you and many xcogs believe, you make Jesus' Father out to be a liar. Are you sure you really want to put out that message? If so, then Jesus would tell you this:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

Weston, like so many others like to blame human beings. Weston wrote: "...The Bible stands out above humanly devised predictions and it tells us that unless our Western nations repent of gross immorality, disaster will follow..."

Well, what has Weston, on his own, repented of in his life? Whether it is a Western nation or any nation the following is still true:

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world CANNOT receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him..." John 14:17

The world includes Western nations...all nations.

For another thing, isn't it God who grants one repentance? So, if God does not grant Western nations repentance, then how can/will they change to fit Weston's ideas of what it means to repent?

I simply believe the following, no matter what Weston says:

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Corinthians 5:19

To you, Weston if you read this, why don't you preach that gospel? That question goes out to the other xcogs, as well as the likes of Pack, Flurry, Malm, Winnail (who?), Franks (who?), another false prophet Bob Thiel and yes, even Gerald Waterhouse if he were alive today.

I suspect all of these guys will eventually, some day in the future, preach that gospel, but...

Time will tell...


Michael said...

Gerald Weston wrote:
"And God tells us in His word that the modern-day Assyrians will be used to punish our rebellious peoples. Twice in the Twentieth Century we failed to learn our lesson. The next time it will be more painful. And lest anyone misunderstand, this is not “Germany bashing.”

No, it may not be Germany bashing, but it is the usual provincial myopic tribal point of view. Since Gerald et al. see themselves as Israel, God's special pets, all other world players are merely bit players in supporting roles, at best.
Germany's only purpose is to punish God's people. It's not like they have ambitions to better themselves and/or the human race, no they are just tools of Satan (who is presumably a proxy of God).
How would you like it, COGers, if on Judgment Day you are informed that, after all was said and done, it was say, Scientology that was correct, and your lives, goals, faith, trials, pain, etc. were all part of some grand plan that was to only serve as a counter-example to Scientology believers, who were the main players?

Hoss said...

Twice in the Twentieth Century we failed to learn our lesson.

At least twice - first Global, and then Living...

Anonymous said...

If the work is so important, why does his church spend 80% of its funds on church administration? This is very discouraging to its donors. Flurry's recent stupid jet purchase is in keeping with this mindset.
The other point is that members prayers are answered in relation to their obedience to Gods ways. God does not answer the prayers of sinners. So why doesn't his church give its members spiritual meat rather than constant baby food.
These leaders should look in the mirror rather than focusing exclusively on the members.

Connie Schmidt said...

Germany-- an aging population. No nuclear weapons, No ICBMs , No substantial air force, and No navy or carriers.

AND--- somehow this country is supposed to kick America's backside in a war in the next few coming years? A very tough concept to sell.

Anonymous said...

God granting repentance means that Good agrees to use Christ's blood to cover peoples sins. This forgiveness is not a right, but is at Gods discretion. He looks at a persons heart and works, and decides yes or no.
In this sense, God rather than man grants forgiveness/repentance.

God always wants people to repent. For instance, over and over in the OT God sent His prophets to persuade nations to repent.

Byker Bob said...

Weston is simply illustrating that, as a newly ordained ACOG leader, he has the acquired skills to write and speak in the fixed mold of Armstrongism. This has always involved equating the Armstrong world view with God, especially when utilizing the shibboleth and cliche that "God will not be mocked". It's a reaffirmation, street theatre as it were, to reassure the troops that all is still well in the absence of the Rod of iron.

I wonder if LCG members will feel inspired by this message. Probably, among the predominantly white membership, typical of the population of U.S. whites, 50% or more are German. It has been my experience that just as black brethren somewhat secretly realized that the church held certain ethnic misconceptions, so also did the German brethren.


Anonymous said...

If Doug Winnail's house were on fire, would you need to pay him $100,000 to flee the deadly fire?

If a deadly plague were approaching Gerald Weston's home, would you need to pay him $100,000 to flee the deadly plague?

If the threat LCG warns of were real, not only would you not need to pay big executive salaries, the executives would insist on spending that money to fight the threat, not to enrich themselves personally with a lifestyle far above most members.

The fact that these men can drive expensive cars and live in expensive homes while proclaiming "a threat is coming" is proof that they don't actually take the threat very seriously. It's just their marketing gimmick so people will give them the money they need to live comfortable lives.

Byker Bob said...

The big smoke out of the Armstrong movement is already a past event. This latter day crop of fear mongers is simply emptying the bong water. They're out of stash.


Anonymous said...

Same message, same style, same content. Is there anything in their writing that gives us any hint that they have grown in knowledge at all? If former members from the 70's, like myself, visited a service, would what I hear be anything at all different from what I heard in 74? Do they read anything not produced by their own organization? Is there anything that they can learn from others? We are to grow in grace and knowledge . . . . Has there been any growth on their part? IF they believe that HWA was given knowledge that had been lost for 1800 years, does that mean that he was given ALL knowledge and there is no need to seek more knowledge from other sources? Does history, anthropology, and other fields of study have anything to add to what HWA taught?

Willie S. said...

How many times can you cry wolf? Of course the end is near, I could die tonight.
Can anyone tell me how that magazine is preaching the gospel? Those so called ministers don't, as someone else wrote all they preach is milk old and sour. As you know, you checked your brains on the way in. What have they really preached about the gospel. Little stories are told to prove a point, no meat. Not even during the feast.
Glad I left. As me thinks all they wanted was my money!

Assistant Coffee Maker said...

Notice a couple of things in this letter that are typical of COGism:
1. When a point being made is not clearly illustrated in the Bible, they use the word "clearly" (or “plain,” “plainly,” “clear,” etc.) as if to distract you from the fact that it's actually not clear.

Current events clearly demonstrate the accuracy of the Bible.

Other random actual examples of this:
"Most students of biblical prophecy understand that the Bible clearly predicts an end-time revival of the Holy Roman Empire."
"Yes, the Apostle Paul makes it clear that two major events of global significance will occur just before Jesus Christ returns to save mankind from total cosmocide."
"Yet many of these churches teach a number of doctrines and practices directly opposite those which your Bible clearly reveals."
"Almighty God makes it very plain in prophecy that Christ will forcefully punish entire nations in the coming Millennium if they refuse to keep the Feast of Tabernacles"

Assistant Coffee Maker said...

2. The motive of preaching the gospel is purely selfish.

Few will heed the warning, but if we see what is happening, God expects us to sound the warning trumpet (Ezekiel 33:2–9)

What he is saying is that we should expect the vast majority to not respond to what is being warned about, but we still have to warn them to save our own assess. Those people cannot avoid the Great Tribulation, except for the tiny few that God actually calls to repentance, but we have to announce this inevitable doom so that God doesn't put their blood on our heads. Of course, we need lots of money to get this selfish warning message out.

This idea is a perversion of the above-referenced Ezekiel verses, and Matthew 24:14, "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Whenever you hear them say the phrase, "preach the gospel as a witness" you need to understand what they mean by "as a witness" and that this is the only reason it is to be preached. We don't preach the gospel to save them or to add converts to the church, we preach the gospel against them to let them know they're destined to suffer in this life and that they'll be raised in the 2nd resurrection (that's the hope part). Any call to repent is tongue-in-cheek and done knowing that it will go unheeded, like when Willy Wonka insincerely tells Violet Beauregarde "Stop, don't..." before she turns into a human blueberry. This teaching is, in my opinion, the source of the heartless and unsympathetic attitude that permeates the religion.

If most of the population has no way of repenting because God isn't calling them, then what use is the warning? "Hey buddy, you're going to suffer in the Great Tribulation and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, and you'll be raised in the 2nd resurrection (that’s the hope part), but now that I've told you it's all good for me and I get to still be in the better resurrection."

As far as reaching people to actually convert them, COGism teaches that it doesn't take that much effort because God will put an instinct in the few that are being called and they will eventually come into the church. The membership largely seems to not recognize the contradiction of hoping the church will grow significantly, and getting all excited about the public Bible lectures, hoping for lots of new baptisms. Many church members give their tithes and offerings out of concern for the people they hope will hear the message, but that just isn't consistent with the doctrine of preaching as a witness.

An LCG minister recently tried to settle worry over how to personally evangelize effectively, advising his congregation that all they have to do is tell a person about the church and maybe a few quick details about what they believe, and if God is calling that person he'll respond by sooner or later joining the church, and if not, then blow them off because it's obvious that God isn't calling the person. He actually used the term "blow ‘em off".

Anonymity said...

Regardless of who is right or who is wrong, I have it all worked out for myself. I got baptized in Worldwide Church Of God in 1985 and began attending Church Of God (International) the very next year attending sabbath service with both groups and latter began attending Philadelphia Church Of God then Global Church Of God until that group went "belly up" and latter began attending Living Church Of God then even latter Intercontinental Church Of God and then Restored Church Of God and in 2010 began attending United Church Of God. You see, I attend every one of these groups taking turns on different Sabbaths and on Sunday I attend Grace Communion International. Religion is a hobby and attending church is the same as a social club.

I Know Gerald Weston Is A Fraud said...

At Sabbath Service During His Sermons All I Hear Is What Sounds Like Adult Speak From The Charlie Brown Cartoon, "Wahh Wahh Wahh".

Anonymous said...

Keeping the economy on the brink seems to be a deliberate ploy of the usual suspects. Its keeps the Christian Zionists and the Armageddon crowd where they want them ... thinking that the end is near.

Anonymous said...

Obviously Weston's core audience are people who are thoughtless old-timers.

It never made sense that modern geopolitical boundaries would even substantially encapsulate pure stock descendants of ancient patriarchs or ancient nation states or empires. It made even less sense that a mix of white Germanic and Celtic Europeans (inhabitants of the British Isles) would be the substantially the descendants of biblical Ephraim, while another mix of white Germanic and Celtic Europeans (inhabitants of Germany) would be substantially the descendants of ancient Assyria.

That much common sense was available to people before HWA began preaching that nonsense. Now we have DNA research which directly and conclusively disproves it.

Really, for anyone to preach that today just shows them to be a thoughtless fool. It takes an even bigger fool to follow that thoughtless fool.

Ronco said...

"The big smoke out of the Armstrong movement is already a past event. This latter day crop of fear mongers is simply emptying the bong water. They're out of stash."

Thanks for sharing that, BB!


Anonymous said...

"God always wants people to repent. For instance, over and over in the OT God sent His prophets to persuade nations to repent."

Over two thousand years later, the message has never changed. You must repent, and that means kissing the behinds of the priests or self-appointed ministers of that son of fictional Yahweh who was Baal's and Anath's brother and immortal divine children of El. Just another fanciful pantheon of made up gods whose inventors insist on being the top of the heap so they don't have to do anything but run their ignorant mouths. Pack, Flurry, Weston, now dead Rod, etc. They're all carrying on the original con game Herb recognised as the perfect non-taxable gravy train. Just throw some stupid crap together, pretend it's a theology, and there's bound be plenty of suckers to climb on board. Sorry, guys, I disembarked a long, long time ago.

Allen C. Dexter

John Q. Public said...

This website needs to stop making fun of God's chosen ministers, karma is a bitch!

Byker Bob said...

"Now we have DNA research which directly and conclusively disproves it".

Oh, why haven't you heard, 6:45? They don't accept it. Now they are saying that the Jews of today are not the Jews of antiquity, but instead are Turks who converted and multiplied. So, of course Anglo peoples' DNA does not match Jewish DNA. The real Jews have become lost or unknown so there can be no real DNA comparison, and therefore British Israelism remains true.

It doesn't matter what facts are uncovered, scientific, anthropological, or otherwise. People who want or need to continue to believe in BI will find a way around the facts.

nck said...

"That much common sense was available to people before HWA began preaching that nonsense."

That is a 100% denial of the 19th century nation state building and the efforts to give historical roots and indentity to the new nations after the collapse of Napoleon and the Concert of Europe.

The 19th century was EXACTLY the age of "rediscovery" of ancient roots. The placing on pedestals of long forgotten heroes and military leaders.

Also most of the 300 German states were well aware of the tribes of their ancestors and some retained the names of those tribes like Saxony, Hesse etc etc
Other tribes had moved to estates we call France today like the Burgundi.
People didn't move that much until the invention of the combustion engine.


Anonymous said...

All this DNA science disproving BI is non sense. It's a near law that if a person knows more than you on a certain area, they can easily mislead and deceive you. Armstrong and his ministers initially deceiving new members is an example of this.
Hence non of these DNA 'proofs' can be trusted. Unless you have a doctorate in DNA, all their arguments are effectively rubbish.
Ignore BB on DNA. He talks with folk tongue.

Anonymous said...

"Gods chosen ministers"? Christ instructed 'call no man your master,' but the ministers get around this by giving themselves other fancy pants titles such as the 'chosen ministers' (said in reverential tones). Aren't all church members 'chosen' by God?
Based on their behaviour, Nitwit Ministers is a more accurate title.

Anonymous said...

Repent means to embrace Gods perfect laws and to have a relationship with God. No kissing of priests behinds is necessary. As long as my prayers are answered, I will not disembark the train as you have.

Ed said...

No one knows the future. If there is a God and he wanted us to know the future he would make it a lot more clear then what is written in the bible.

DennisCDiehl said...

" I believe you see the handwriting on the wall and that is why you became a co-worker with us."

Otherwise known as the Butt 'n Hide Saving Church of God

Byker Bob said...

1:01, you are on the wrong side of peer-reviewed science. However, in the first place, we don't need DNA, because it was always easy to debunk British Israelism through various other methods, including your own Bible. DNA is just the most efficient way to accomplish the refutation. Anyone of average IQ can understand basic ethnic groups, and the identifying markers which are passed from generation to generation by mothers and fathers. We obtain our information from people who do have doctorates in the actual science, and we call that process "education".

By the way, I've never heard of anyone who talks with a "folk" tongue. Do you mean that my comments are all based on an appreciation for the music of Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Peter Paul and Mary, and Ian and Sylvia? That can't be. I've never been a folkie, I've always been a rock n roller.

I do agree with one of your statements. People can be conned and deceived. Actually that's why all of us are here - to warn others about the person responsible for having deceived us, and the fraudulent deceptions of his which are still floating around out there.


Byker Bob said...

Exactly, Ed at 5:11! And, God is capable of mentoring. He doesn't need to zoom into worst case scenario to make His point. Especially in the case of people whose ancestors supposedly forgot their heritage and culture thousands of years ago. It's not as if Aunt Minnie made a conscious decision to reject her national identity and system of law today in our times, and the whole family decided to follow her, fully knowing what they were doing.


Retired Prof said...

John Q. Public on July 22 at 6:57 said..."karma is a bitch!"

Allusion to the wrong religion, John Q. Are you a follower of Bob Thiel, or something? He too tosses around sayings from exotic non-Abrahamic superstitions.

You're supposed to say, "You have sown the wind, and you will reap the whirlwind."

Anonymous said...

nck wrote:

"People didn't move that much until the invention of the combustion engine."

While it's true that modern transportation allows individuals to easily move all around the world, to suggest that the ancient tribes of Europe stayed put is grossly misleading, overly simplistic, and denies the records we have about the complex history of Europe.

The histories of Claudius Ptolemy, Jordanes, Cassius Dio, Plutarch, Tacitus, Julius Caesar, Ammianus Marcellinus, Pliny the Elder, Livy, Strabo, and more, taken collectively, give us a picture of over 500 European "barbarian" tribes living north of Roman territory, groups them by language, tells of their many alliances, and also tells us of how a great number of individual tribes or subtribes picked up stakes and moved wholesale to another part of the continent or to the British Isles in ways you might find surprising.

Once the Roman empire collapsed, darkness again largely fell upon Europe, as these tribes did not generally leave us written records of their own. We have a some medieval chroniclers but still, it's difficult for the most part to say conclusively for the vast majority of these hundreds of tribes who ended up where.

You mentioned Saxony, and Hesse (Chatti), and while it is true that many places are named after where a prominent tribes or confederations wound up settling (Schwabenland comes to mind, named after the large Suebian confederation of tribes) this alone tells us nothing about all the places they may have previously settled, or indeed where factions may have broken off and gone to subsequently.

The Saxons, not an individual tribe, but a group of tribes, is a prime example of a people who did not, or were not allowed, to stay put. The first we hear of them from Ptolemy and Tacitus, they are in Old Saxony, in the vicinity of the Danish peninsula. Some of them either originally settled or else spread down the northern coast into the Netherlands, especially Utrecht, and into Normandy as far as Bayeux. It is possible that the Saxons that crossed the channel to Britain were from among these Saxons, whose presence in Britain is mentioned by an anonymous writer in the early 5th century. Others went raiding down to the Italian peninsula with the Lombards under Alboin (a tribe who in the 1st century were neighbors of the Saxons in Old Saxony, but over 600 years made their way slowly southward to Lombardy) in the 6th century, and last we hear wound up settling in Provence in 573 after Alboin's assasination. For those who remained in Old Saxony, Charlemagne conquered them, forcibly converted them to Christianity and deported 10,000 of them to northern France following the Saxon Wars, the remnant of which were integrated with the Franks, and moved eastward into a new duchy known as Saxony, a remnant of which remains today as Lower Saxony.

nck said...


I couldn't have said it better. 100% agreed on the offered time frame. Thanks for sharing.


nck said...

I have visited all mentioned cities, areas, peoples mentioned. Been twice to being yards from (what remains of) charlemain and nearly kissed with one of his (thousands of) descendants. (not cindy crawford unfortunately).

Saxon travel to the British isles that would surprise me??? That would be a chronicle mentioning a tunnel OR some landbridge which desolved 10.000 years ago.

Perhaps you mean the friendly invitation by allies just like NO country ever invaded another without the claim of invitation.

Re Glorious revolution which was the last Saxon invasion of Britain by sheer military force, spun into a political invite.

I love the Saxons.


Anonymous said...

Mr. Gerald Weston is getting up in years. Yes, the end is near.

I Know David Pack Is A False Apostle said...

Paybacks Are Hell.

Anonymous said...

"Saxon travel to the British isles that would surprise me???"

What? You've never heard of the Anglo-Saxons, or the seven kingdoms that were successfully defended from the Viking invaders, and first united them into what would be later be called England, literally, "land of the Angles"?

"That would be a chronicle mentioning a tunnel OR some landbridge which desolved 10.000 years ago."

You mean, like the tunnels and landbridges that facilitated the Vikings invaders? Like the tunnels and landbridges that allowed Christopher Columbus to make it to the West Indies? /sarcasm

Byker Bob said...

Several years back, in another discussion of the implausibility of BI, the many groups which had gone into the British melting pot and had been fully assimilated in the history leading up to the 1600's were mentioned and discussed. Purity of two tribes identifiable as Manasseh and Ephraim had already been rendered impossible by the time England colonized the new magic land.

HWA was bullheaded, but he was not stupid. I believe that he knew of the British melting pot, yet chose to obfuscate it as he created the marketing plan for his religion. Obviously he knew better than to define Ephraim as the Angles (from which the term "English" is derived) and the Saxons as Manasseh. The terms Angle and Saxon were collective terms each describing a group of tribes, and those tribes had intermarried amongst themselves and with the other inhabitants of England and Europe such that they were indistinguishable as members of individual tribes. It's why we use the term Anglo-Saxon today. None the less, HWA employed a theory of divine filtration to redefine the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim and to make them into the US and BC for the purpose of "understanding" prophecy. And, of course, the moment the Mayflower landed, the mixing and melting continued with other European groups, Native Americans. and more often than is commonly acknowledged, with the then African slaves.

Interestingly enough, the name of the British royal family had been "Saxe-Coburg and Gotha" until changed to "Windsor" during World War I by King George V to bypass the rabid anti-German sentiment caused by the war amongst the citizens of the British Empire. A royal proclamation accompanied, abandoning all of the titles which they had previously held under the German Crown. King George V was Emperor Wilhelm II's cousin! Patrilineally, British Royalty has been German starting with King Edward VII. Funny thing about "purity". So difficult to achieve and maintain, as everything around us moves toward that random state known as entropy. Entropy is the reason why there never were "pure" tribes even in antiquity. Matrilineally, Manasseh and Ephraim were of Egyptian heritage!


True Bread said...

typical WCG etc nonsense...always pick on the "Germans". The Third Reich of Hitler was just that, the Third resurrection of the Roman Empire. We (USA) are the Fourth and final Reich. That's where all of these brain dead HWA split offs are wrong..they are locked in 1934 with Herb's confused "prophecies". HWA is dead. It's very simple actually..

The King of the North : USA, NATO, UN, EU, Israel (Rev 13:1 7 heads, ten horns)
The King of the South : Islamic nations
The Kings of the East : Russia China, BRICS nations

Trump leading candidate for the AC, with Francis the FP...

you can watch it unfold on your TVs....

PS: nck is a clown...the Wright Brothers unlocked controlled flight, you amateur

nck said...


My rhetorical question meant that there is hardly anything on the Saxons that would surprise EXCEPT if they had come through the Channel tunnel.

Dont forget the Jutes, the Belgian tribes and the indiginous Cornish and those pesky Normans and Flemish knights in 1066. The Beatles from Irish descent. And the Beegees Australians or British?

True Bread, I meant, in the great scheme of things we did 100.000 years without air travel. USA the beast power? How EG White great controversy of yours?

BB. Where does that pureness doctrine come from? As I recall there was talk of "being descended from..." and "sifting" not pureness. I mean there were laws/concerns against Irish immigration but that was of their catholicism into Wasp dominated territory.


nck said...

Since there is a habit of twisting my words.
To specify "tribal pureness".

I never heard of any policy at AC or WCG to prohibit and prevent the intermarriage of a French student with an American, an Irish with a Swede, A Brit with Swiss. According to the prevalent ideology this would be "tribal mixing" and people had no reservation in engaging in such activities.

I did hear about petting and necking, but those would be universal human behaviorial traits as compared to "dating widely" which would be an entirely American cultural phenomenon as are the different drinking ages.


Byker Bob said...

Nck, how do you have two distinct tribes for nation-building without a certain degree of purity? How do you hold a group of people accountable for forgetting their culture, heritage, and laws if they are not recognizable as members of the tribe, but are Heinz 57 mongrels as most of us are? Combining ingredients chemically, alters the properties. Take a powerful explosive, and combine it with a deadly gas, and you get NaCl, salt, a compound necessary for and beneficial for a healthy life. Mix the right edible ingredients, and you get a chocolate cake. Dilute an Israelite enough over thousands of years, and the offspring is no longer recognizable as an Israelite. I eat at one sub place occasionally, where they offer mayonnaise, mustard, or mayo-mustard. If they ran out of mayonnaise, and a patron was allergic to mustard, he would never substitute the mayo-mustard to moisten up the sub.

Predominance of the Israelite DNA would be the entire key to receiving the promises of Abraham, or being punished for "forgetting" the terms of the covenant made with the Israelites. You can't just arbitrarily pick the wealthiest nations on planet Earth, and say "Ah! These are the Israelites! They're going to be punished!" HWA knew this, which is why he invoked BI before anyone was actually able to research and debunk it, and why he hated integration and inter-marriage. He knew that his version of the prophecies could be totally thwarted if everyone was everything.

Native Americans go to great lengths tracing heritage through public records and genealogies to support admission of individuals to their tribes. Theories and suppositions won't cut it. Armstrongism never bothered to delve into these intricasies to support tribal membership for Manasseh and Ephraim. Boom! You're rich, you're white like everyone in the Bible, and you don't keep the sabbath, so poof! The Germans are Assyrian and are going to punish you! HWA really dummied a lot of complex things down, and then went about enriching himself by being a bottom-feeder!


Anonymous said...

During the 1800s, it was the official doctrine of the 2 million strong Anglican church that the British empire was Gods fulfilment of His promise to Abraham of 'a nation and company of nation.' No doubt many others of that period came to the same conclusion. This all happened before the birth of HWA.
Your constant attributing of BI to Herb alone is intellectually dishonest.

Byker Bob said...

Wow, nck, that's really taking things into reverse. My point on the tribal purity was not the dating policies at AC. My point was that you can't really call modern day people Manasseh and Ephraim if they are either of completely different genetic makeup from Israelites, or have been so diluted by assimilation and melting pot activity that the majority of their dna is no longer Manassite or Ephraimite.

When I asked about this as an AC student, I was told that for hundreds of years, God had supernaturally filtered those who remained in England and those who colonized America to create modern day Ephraim and modern day Manasseh so that the prophecies could be fulfilled. With a readily observable melting pot surrounding us, that was not a satisfactory answer then, and it's not a satisfactory answer now, especially with what genetic science has taught us about completely different haplotypes, and origins. This tribal thing and prophecy is why COGlodytes fight and disbelieve the DNA science, or claim that it is not understandable.


nck said...

2 million only. That is a disappointing number translating into only 15 million people today.
HWA is specifically singled out as the most prolific dissiminator of BI ideology in the 20th century though. I hate quoting sources since they put people even further astray. But one of those sources is "The Messianic Legacy" by Baigent. A book completely debunked in its premiss but still interesting for its analysis of movements like WCG and contexts in which they flourish.

BB: 7:47
DNA science is not so hard to understand. Perhaps the "ostrich" on banned is a very nice old person. Younger than 40 years I would be appalled by the "duck and cover."

7:47 raises interesting points about what would constitute the definition of a biblical people. How much would it stretch from "the stranger amongst you", would a minority rulership be required like in most former Spanish Colonies in the Southern Hemisphere. With Spanish presidents and subjugated mayan or former indigenous marjority?

The Jewish claim of the Ethiopians. Was "operation Solomon or Operation Moses, the airlifting of 35 planes of black people to Israel to "save jews". Whereas Rastafari in the Caribean would mostly be comprised of "Cultural Jews" not rabinically recognized jews.

Man BB you make my headspin while I have to prepare position for the Fed's next move.
I do need a mayan authority for insider trading, happen to know one?

Going by rabinnical definition I see they are more liberal than HWA on what constitutes a jew. From the outside I see Indian people or Black, but the jewish authorities are able to make falashas or other from it.

Your 11:24 posting requires even more thinking on my part.
To acknowledge a Socratian debate would merely be a "patting on the back" of myself to which I do not aspire. But again you raise interesting points now that you are accurately portraying WCG ideology.

Would people of Turkish descent conscripted in the German army be considered "the rod of mine iron". Or would they not be Assyrians. Did the Romans really conquer Britain or was it the contingent of Jordanian auxilliary bowmen on the Wall of Hadrian???

BB. You rock my world. All history books need to be re written I conclude so far.

Wow, did the people of Egypt build the pyramids. Or are they just a bunch of Arab usurpers of the glories of other peoples. Perhaps they are merely the custodians.

What were the Ptolemean Egyptians? Again Greek rulers over a vast Egyptian population. Cleopatra. A british jewish actress. OR a Greek lass? An Egyptian?

The Romanovs, those famous Russian leaders. 90% German.

I gotta stop. Jared is speaking, panic......


Byker Bob said...

7:07, the Anglicans didn't wreck my family and adolescence with BI. Herbie did. Had he not scammed my parents, I seriously doubt that I'd know there was such a theory as British Israelism even today, let alone German Assyrianism. I'm not going to be politically correct by placing some kind of cautionary note in all of my posts to the effect that others originated it. British Israelism in and of itself is rather benign, although chauvinistic. It does not do serious damage unless you introduce it into race relations, or couple it with false prophecy.

As for Herb, I certainly hope that people are still making pilgrimmages to Altadena to urinate on his grave.


the Ocelot said...

If the prophecies of HWA and Germany were true;flags bearing the swastika would have been flying in America for the last 35 years

Anonymous said...

All these posts by Nck.
Has his doctor told him that he has months to live?

nck said...


I will take your admonishment.
Although it is no excuse I try and concentrate on one thread as much as possible as not to disturb the other topics too much. Another reason is that my minds works through association or annecdotical, (a bit like Ronald Reagan's short stories) since scientific thesis take too much time.

I bear no ill will toward those acting like a curbing American destroyer passing by the Spratlys.


Byker Bob said...

No, 12:31. He gets bored while in these mass meetings with the Rothchilds and other international movers and shakers, or while sitting in her majesty's court in his powdered wig listening to boring testimony. Posting to Banned during these meetings and court sessions is like listening to a Yankees game through the earplug of your transistor radio used to be. At least we know he's not one of the dudes sitting at his computer in his skivvies in some dank basement and drinking cheap sherry wine.


Anonymous said...

Weston is right about God not being mocked. Which is why God is not blessing Westons church. The solution? The ministers need to stop lording it over members lives and faith. They need to repent of beating the sheep which the bible and mans laws condemn. They need to repent of not feeding their flock meat.
But wait, the ministers sins are off the table. They must never be mentioned, and everyone must pretend that they don't exist. Only the sheep need to repent.
Yes Mr Weston, God is not mocked.

Anonymous said...

This is Gerald Weston,
The notion of us ministers repenting is absurd. Ministers never need to repent. They are entitled to the perks of lording over members, beating them, feeding them baby milk in order to maintain minister power and superiority. The ministers define what's right and wrong, so how can they do wrong. All complaints against the ministers will be severely dealt with. So no more blabber about the ministers.

nck said...

No, 12:31. He gets bored while in these mass meetings with the Rothchilds and other international movers and shakers, or while sitting in her majesty's court in his powdered wig listening to boring testimony. Posting to Banned during these meetings and court sessions is like listening to a Yankees game through the earplug of your transistor radio used to be. At least we know he's not one of the dudes sitting at his computer in his skivvies in some dank basement and drinking cheap sherry wine.


That is just about as accurate as can be if one would just shuffle a bit with family names, institutions and asset class.

But hey don't get me started. It's proven to be a bit too much for some. I stand admonished to initiate tapering on banned. The lone voice of 12:31 has spoken, perhaps representing the people at large.