Tuesday, August 1, 2017

Updated: Restored Church of God Former Staff Member: My Exit Story

I first began working for the Restored Church of God Headquarters at the age of 18. Prior to that, I had only been attending with the local congregation for about a year. 

As a young man, the idea that I would be getting the ultimate privilege of working for the Church’s Headquarters and being near to the Apostle conjured enough excitement to disregard my family’s many hesitations and warnings. To completely stop talking to all of my childhood friends, because I knew I was going to aspire to become different enough and I would no longer be able to associate with them. I was told my calling had drawn me out of the world, so therefore If I had friends with the world God hated that. Which actually is scriptural, but I took it to a place farther than I should have. 

One of the all-encompassing lessons I was taught in the beginning was that we were to live the “Give Way” of life. That it was better to give to others and more satisfying to our lives to be living sacrifices than it was to expect from others and be given things. 

I worked at the RCG HQ for only 4 years. It would have been longer but this is how it went: 

At first, it was inspiring. There was a focus on studying, the truth, the people, unity, becoming wholesome people, elevating our standards to reflect God’s glory, and being lights to the world. Several ministerial trips were being made and slideshows put together, the whole HQ staff and congregation gathered for us to see our brethren from around the world and make the connection that we had a family much bigger than our minds could see. I would spend many weekends with brethren, where we would have family movie nights, dinners, game nights, and more. The camaraderie was just something to behold. 

My first impression was that everyone was stiff and acted like robots. They all spoke the same, dressed the same, their hair combed, and cut perfectly.  People walked fast, always In a rush. Whenever Pack would enter a room everyone would eagerly look for him to be the first to rise up in his presence. He is towering figure and a bit intimidating. We greeted each other in an awkward way the first time. And every encounter after was just me trying to get away from him as much as possible because I did not later want to be the subject of a staff meeting about how people constantly get in his way and make it difficult for him to do the work. 

Anyhow, the first two years were marvelous, I found myself working seven days a week, If you didn't know, any setup and break down of the hall and other certain work at HQ was considered okay. We did a lot of it. But I didn't care I was doing something 7 days a week because I was determined to be the best serving Christian I could be. I had rose colored glasses on.

So many people at the time were moving to HQ, the staff was growing fast! There were rumors that a building was in the works. 

Pack would always mention he always believed there was not enough time to build a campus so therefore we were going to focus the Church’s assets on doing the work. Resources were devoted to the Real Truth Distribution Program, Advertising was expanded. We got on to television. A hardcover book on prophecy was written. Ministers were coming to HQ for training and being sent out. Everything seemed really ok!

You almost never heard about having to give up your assets. That is…until the land was purchased and the entire Church was told a campus was going to be built. Then all the recent hires made sense. But also, an entire sermon came out on how we needed to give all that we had to the Church. From there, things took many twists and turns. 

Fundraising was stressed on the members as a role they needed to partake in as part of their Christian duty. The example of Israel giving everything for the building of the temple was widely used to exhort us to do the same. We were told this would be far greater than what Mr. Armstrong had accomplished with the Pasadena campus. And the timing was so that the Pasadena campus had been demolished, which led Pack to believe beginning the process of building the RCG Campus was permission from God to do so. 

But as I video documented the entire build of the lower campus as part of my Job, then, I began to notice some things were off. 

First off, contractors were brought from the outside to help make the buildings possible. But Pack solely relied on the HQ staff to do the bulk of the work inside and landscaping. As the months progressed the first building began to take shape quickly but at the expense of tired staff. As I recorded, the few doing too much with too little time, they appeared terribly exhausted. Agitated. I focused a lot of the camera on the buildings themselves getting a lot of before and after. 

Many would share with me their experience, often complaining. I’d listen but never went to the ministry telling them what they had said. People needed to vent. I was learning that the rose colored glasses that had kept me in delusion were beginning to wear off. 

Pack championed himself as a man of the people and a pastor at heart. Openly stating he didn't want the role of Apostle, this was a method to solicit people to feel sorry for him, a tactic I believe he loves using often to tug at the heart strings of the membership and make them believe he cares about them. 

Pack is one way with the church and different with the staff. Certain things he says in a sermon is often cut out because he does not feel the entire church or the world should know it. You can find him even saying this in his transcripts made public. 

But during the entire build of the campus, many were overworked. Losing weight rapidly, often enduring poison ivy all over their bodies, sickness and, heat exhaustion. At times there were time crunches where lunches only lasted 30 minutes. Not enough time to get full nourishment for the hard work ahead. 

Many were coming and going, that is because many were being fired. The pressure was on, suddenly Pack became so obsessed with the campus he began attacking the very people who with blood, sweat and I believe tears had dedicated everything including assets to build the buildings. 

Anyone fired for a disagreement or failing to do the Job correctly were looked at as spiritual weak. IT'S NO WONDER! They had no time nor strength to study! People were driven to alcohol, smoking, escapades probably out of the volume of stress and feeling of emptiness. 

If it were not for the faithful women there, who brought the young men food from time to time, I believe some would have gone the day without eating. 

The first building was eventually completed in a year. But you could tell it was done in a hurry, there were all kinds of troubles with the first building. It was a headache. The whole staff was moved into the new building and eventually, everything became about appearance and standards and keeping the campus clean to a T. 

Pack instituted a big brother is watching you type of feeling among people, often encouraging the staff and congregation that if they saw anyone drop trash on the campus to tell the ministry immediately. He went as far as to say during a staff meeting that you were not spiritual enough if you walked by a piece of trash on the campus and did not pick it up. What if your eye didn't catch it and someone else saw you walk by it? I’m pretty sure they’d see you as not spiritual. 

You would see people scour the campus hoping to find trash so they could appear more spiritual. It was shocking! 

What was supposed to be a campus for the people, for the city, for the congregation, wasn't really for those people, It was more of an empty palace! As time went on, many of the staff were laid off, even more, were fired, their sins made public by Pack from the pulpit to the entire church, probably to discredit them if they spoke to other members about what was going on. Soon, entire floors were closed off with only those being in executive having access. It was a hassle anytime you needed to go up to the third floor you either had to take three flights of stairs or catch the elevator at a perfect time. And if anyone saw you wondering on the third floor you were asked the reason for being up there. It was as if Pack was paranoid and began to isolate himself and those who were his loyalist also loved being enclosed up there! They had the best views, best furniture, best desks. Meanwhile, staff elsewhere had broken and falling apart desks. And we couldn't even get the latest access to software for work. 

Many were made to feel bad. I was once told that Pack personally apologized to a family he had antagonized. However, he never made that public. He shared a story to the entire church of a young man working at HQ who asked another staff member about a bump he had gotten on his hand, the other staff replying to the young man it was a callus. When Pack heard that he used that story to show how young people were weak and didn't know what hard work was, thus he effectively killed the desire in that young man to do any more volunteering. That is what you got when you volunteered. 

During a time that was so difficult for everyone, a time that was full of exhaustion, a desire to be better, a time where everyone was trying to get on Packs level, all he ever did was bash people, most often the young people caught the brunt of his anger. He often publicly shamed the young people, for having awful work standards and not being able to have the attention to detail he did. He once said the young people in the church couldn't take care of a gold fish let alone a cat. He made us feel bad because we didn't have the stellar upbringing he did and he couldn't understand that during that time the morale had dipped so low in the church that people needed to be uplifted.

Instead, he hunkered down and would watch from inside the air conditioned third-floor glass windows like a hawk as the staff worked tireless laying out sod and mulch around huge areas and gardens. Anyone who stopped working for more than three minutes he called out. 

Pack often stated that if he could he would demand the entire church work on the campus on Sundays because God said six days shall you work.  Staff meetings were intense, and the entire time it was him chastising the staff for things that were being overlooked or things that were being done wrong inside and outside the buildings. 

The staff was being laid off on a huge scale, many such as myself constantly reassured we would not be affected. Until we were laid off. There went four years of my life, I had given it all up. With nothing to show for, because for the four years, I struggled financially so badly my family would regularly take up fund collections to help me afford my rent not get evicted. I once ate bread for a week. Never told anyone. Once trying lifting up a stack of chairs because there weren't any dolly’s or help around, I ended up pulling a muscle, my medical bill for that hospital visit was $7,000. 

Many young people are routinely relocated, the same people working on the buildings, never having a feeling of being settled. One day you could be at peace the next day, your household would be shuffled and you could find yourself living with someone who secretly worshiped Pack. 

I am thankful I had thick skin from the start. Some of the things I was told and made to feel would have been enough to make anyone feel insecure for a long time. But I believed I was doing something good. I believed and many others that we were helping out humanity. 

Instead, we were helping out Pack by bringing to life his vision of a campus he could eventually live on. He is in his own bubble. As he has stated, he has this ability to “see things that are not real”. Thinks people will eventually try and kill him, hence why he must be on the campus. The 82 part and counting series on correcting much of the prophecy he says the church misunderstood has left people even more confused. 

During the almost two years that this sermon series has taken place, many have left, and the new people will have no idea that Packs failed prophecy of August 2013 has effectively ruled him as a false prophet. 

He is now claiming to be the end time Elijah and therefore if Elijah was a type of Christ, he is. He has trained the staff and ministry to tell people who disagree or question something that is wrong as spiritually weak. 

One particular sermon that was given during a conference explained the higher a Christian is in the pyramid of government that God laid out, the higher your vantage point is spiritual. So the people work hard to achieve that level of awareness that could allow them to “see other peoples intention and spiritual level”. It almost sounded at times like some Scientology nonsense. 

The Staff is underpaid. When they no longer need you, they let you go and don't even bother to check up on you only if there is a need of you again. Some staff are brought back when it's in the best interest of HQ. Staff meetings are basically, Pack yelling and staff never able to ask the questions they really want to ask. The buildings are mostly empty. Not enough money is coming in, so the existing number of people there have to work even more to maintain the income that is needed to pay for the campus. While others struggle to pay three tithes, Pack is enjoying a new home with a huge deck none of the members who have given it all up will ever have the pleasure of being on or having one of their own. Some of the loyal ministers at HQ routinely share with each other what was supposed to be private counsel sessions. They try and persuade you, that there must be something wrong with you. They regularly ask you about other members not keeping up with the status quo. If your haircut is off, they pounce on you like a pack of wolves, meanwhile, the same ministers walk by you as they walk into Sabbath services with their crisp pressed shirts, shined shoes, and clean shaven faces never saying hello.

The arrogance and egos and the people building up a wall around Pack are the same people no one likes to counsel with. There is no trust in them. People vent all the time. Anyone would welcome a conversation, a sincere genuine conversation where you openly talk about frustrations bothering you with the way things are done. It's considered murmuring, but some people cannot go to the ministry to release the pint up anger and hurt.

Now I am 26 years old and I realized I could no longer bear this all in, I spoke my mind several times, left the Church three months ago after giving it another shot, I was told I had been spiritually weak for a long time. No, I just got tired being told to believe the bible and then see actions that were different. I got tired of seeing peoples live uprooted, good people. People who were willing to do the right thing. Widows removed from the body for being a burden on the church. Young people shamed. Great ministers being fired or leaving. Always helping but never being helped. Played with your emotions. Confused about prophecy. Made to feel like people in the splinters were stupid and our enemies. On and on and on! What happened to the Give way of life I was told to honor? Pack has turned into something of a mad man even more so than what people already claim he is. 

This is no joke, this will ruin your self-esteem and once you are either kicked out or muster the courage to leave, you are left to pick up the pieces and try to make sense of the whiplash that is being a part of RCG. You will feel unable at times to relate to people in the world. You will feel like you completely lost your sense of purpose in life. You will miss your friends who will no longer speak to you. You will fight hard to unlearn being critical of others and being a robot and all about appearances. 

More and more people are coming out and saying the exact same things, down to precise details that cannot be made up. This stuff just cannot be made up!

It has affected my friendships and sometimes my relationship with my family. Now they are the ones helping me and encouraging me and giving me bits of happiness. I don't think Christ meant for a person to feel this way. But my hope for any who read this is that at the very least some faith in God can remain intact in your hearts and that you too make the decision to begin the healing process. 

Also see a previous story of a former RCG employee:

Former RCG Member/Employee Talks About Abuse In David C. Pack's Cult Compound In Wadsworth



Anonymous said...

Consider yourself lucky to get your eyes beginning to open at this tender age. It took me until I was 40 and had wasted so much time and had to face at the same time a divorce, finding a new career, mental confusion, the list could go on and on. If you keep your mind open, you will find your way.

Allen C. Dexter

Anonymous said...

Thank you for sharing your painful story. We know the reliving of those years had to be difficult. No one knows like one who has lived through such an experience. We pray that members and ministry who read your post will be moved by it and act upon it.

There is more and more information being made public that irrevocably proves Dave Pack is not the caring "shepherd" he tries to present himself as. Only one who is totally deceived would believe "Dave Packalies"! He is a ravenous wolf who is seeking those he can devour!The number of lives he has impacted and destroyed is piling up.

We experienced his deception long distance in the field ministry. We are much older than you and should have been wiser than to be taken in by this false apostle! We were devastated financially but we have survived with our faith in God intact.We and others like us live daily with constant reminders of how our foolish decision to trust Dave Pack will impact our lives as long as we are physical.Bitter and painful lessons indeed.

Hope your story will inspire others to have the courage to escape RCG before their lives are also completely ravaged!

May God help you to rebuild your life. You are in our prayers.

Mark Wolfe said...

I remember sitting at a Feast sermon in Snowbird UT about 10 years ago, before the total madness began in that church began, and Dave was reading a bunch of letters sent to the church. He read one letter where the writer criticized the church for being Bolsheviks. Pack stated, somewhat confused, "what does he think we are communists?"

That is when the light started coming on for me. Did a little research and found the Herbert did study the communist system quite a bit. And, I would imagine, began using those principles of using the masses for all of the states work, while paying them scraps, while the government officials reap all of rewards and perks.

Both Armstrong and Pack sell this life of sacrifice with the reward of government rulership in the Kingdom of God. It was then very hard for me to imagine that God's government would be the same government that Lenin, Stalin, Chavez, Mao and Castro led.

Anonymous said...

If you know your scriptures you would immediately reject people like Pack an Flurry.

1 Tim. 3 v 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous.

Titus 1 v 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate.

Matthew 20 v 25 Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant. Why is this ignored by those being abused?

I Am Unknown To The ACOG Cults said...

Reminds of the time my wife worked in Glendora at the Global Church HQ. She witnessed high ranking ministers walking around not really doing anything productive and they acted like they were "kings". Thankfully that cult went under.

Anonymous said...

In regards to the comment above, it's easy for you to read those scriptures now. But don't be fooled: For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

Anonymous said...

Thank you for sharing your story. I wish you well as you heal from this painful time in your life.

Byker Bob said...

This is even worse than I had imagined!

Sounds like he believes in chastizing and berating until morale improves. His parents misnamed him. They should have called him Dick.


Anonymous said...

When I attended services many years ago, I spent dozens of hours driving other members in my car. When I had a car accident that made my car undrivable, I asked members for a lift to services. People were either indignant that I asked or made extortionist demands. When I complained to a minister, he told me that Gods way is the way of sacrifice. When I looked up all references to sacrifice in thee NT, they are either in the context of deferring gratification such as sacrificing for a education, or in the context of a two way relationship. It's never in the context of a overall lose. That's what the bible labels stealing. 'Sacrifice' (as well as 'serving') are really loaded words (extra meanings attached to these words) in these cults, to the effect of being robbed by the wolves in these groups.

Byker Bob said...

Someone ought to climb up into the space between floors and ceiling, and connect the duct from the bathroom exhaust fan to the air conditioning vent for Pack's office.


Anonymous said...

I'm glad you had the courage to share your story. The after effects of leaving RCG take a massive blow to one's pride. Thankfully, we left in time before this affected our young children to the point of no return. It's not too late to start over. Your true friends will understand if you just apologize and reconnect. The same goes for your family. My heart goes out to you. Take care of yourself.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for sharing it was very courageous of you.

Anonymous said...

Not even Pack's children want to be around him. I am waiting for him to go bankrupt.

Anonymous said...

@ "I Am Unknown" 12:42 pm,
Global may have 'gone under', but the ministers are still around. Some left with Living, some drifted to other groups, and most of those who stayed to the end of Global were absorbed by United.
Which is certainly food for thought... :(

Anonymous said...

This story sounds just like mine. I was another one of the young men that Pack has surrounded himself with. We were always on edge around him. No one wants to incur his wrath. I was exhausted every single day when I went home, which was usually late. Then I was up early to be seen at work before he arrived. The bit about working 7 days a week is true. There was no rest on the Sabbath. I lasted 6 years and then left. I had had enough. I do not attend any COG now because of what I experienced headquarters.

Connie Schmidt said...

Story sounds like the plite of the poor followers of Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple in Guyana that ended so tragically.

The overworked, overtired worn out followers who were underfed and bombarded relentlessly with rambling messages from the cult leader Etc.

But most disturbing of all in the expose, was that Pack fears leaving the compound for fear of death. Jim Jones was that way too, a paranoid ,inwardly fearful tyrant.

Something bad is going to happen to Pack and his bunch. I pray it is not as extreme as Jim Jones or David Koresh , but who knows? Facts are- RUN , don't WALK from Dave Pack and the Restored Church of God IMMEDIATELY!

Anonymous said...

Im sorry you had to go through that. It wasnt easy leaving but as i am trying, i hope you too are finding it easier to manage and move forward in life with a positive attitude and maybe even some faith in God intact. Stay strong.

Anonymous said...

"I lasted 6 years and then left." I have noticed this phenomenon in many abusive churches, not just the ACOGs. It's a deliberate strategy, like a business model. They know that people will wise up after a while, so while they have them, they squeeze everything they can from them. Then wait for new enthusiastic converts to come and replace then. And the process repeats. So there's always a supply of free slave labor.

Dave is like the Pharaoh and his taskmasters who enslaved the Israelites.
Work you slaves, work, work.

Michael said...

Good on you for leaving.

Your real life begins from now...

Byker Bob said...

This is a very excellent contribution, and hopefully will accomplish some good by truly anointing some peoples' eyes. Not everyone ends up becoming assimilated by the borg, just as not everyone exposed to virus gets the flu. Different personality types seem to have a natural immune response and a resistance to indoctrination and the take-over of their thought processes.

It's also very helpful if one is able to leave these cults early in life. I left Armstrongism at age 27. Leaving was traumatic. Fortunately, there was a very popular song from the sixties that was playing in my head, with the opening words "When the truth is found to be lies, and all the joy within you dies....." And, yes, I found somebody to love, as the further words of that Jefferson Airplane classic exhorted.

I wonder if today's music is as reassuring and empowering to young people as ours was. There was like this common ground in the words, to let one know that others also suffered and had adversities that needed to be overcome. I knew this back then. When Eric Burdon hooked up with War, they put out a song called "They Can't Take Away our Music". War was a multi-ethnic group, and it occurred to me while listening to this that the slaves of centuries past had had a tradition of music which helped them live through unimaginable experiences without being completely broken. Even if someone deprives you of your hearing, they can't take away your music, because the tape is still playing in your head.


Anonymous said...

Thanks for the courage it took to relate this story to us. Best wishes on recovery. I hope you're able to see a therapist to better heal from these wounds.

Continue to speak to the truth of your experience.

These groups will most likely fade away into insignificance.

Fear mongering, xenophobia, and top down government doesn't sell too well, unless you're running for president :P

Anonymous said...

If you really want to get at Pack, take some full strength Round Up and spray his stupid trees and bushes. That's where his real love is. He doesn't give a shit about anything else. You will see a grown man cry.

Anonymous said...

Iv'e seen it many offshoots. That's what I keep on complaining secretly, Christ's instructions is to love and be sensitive to your own brethren not supporting works that are vain. I have brethren who cannot eat 3 times a day and one of them in the upper echelon would be so calloused to accuse that people are just sleeping, not working! For crying out loud! If I had known you had eaten bread for a week, I would be sensitive to share what's left of my peas!

Anonymous said...

The majority of members are effected by the Borg brainwashing. The comments of people who stopped attending, of feeling that they have escaped from prison confirms this. In my observation, those who are the most self absorbed are the least effected.
There's also the sin of omission by the church of hiding parts of Gods laws that they disagree with. This impacts members as well. For instance, most members don't comprehend ownership. A no to a request means little in these churches. The church treating members as if it owns them, affects everyone.

It's only when people start to read good books and to grow as a person, that former members get a sense of what could have been.

Anonymous said...

Spray a big cross on the yard. Spell out "Jesus Saves" hahahaha

Yahoo Account said...

Does anybody know whatever happened to a WCG minister by the name of Boyd Mansanarus ? He was over the Tupelo, Mississippi congregation when the church began making the changes.

Anonymous said...

More and more stories about staff/members leaving RCG are confirming each other in explicit detail: http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2013/09/former-rcg-memberemployee-talks-about.html

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Byker Bob said, "Someone ought to climb up into the space between floors and ceiling, and connect the duct from the bathroom exhaust fan to the air conditioning vent for Pack's office".

MY COMMENT - ROFLMAO! Thanks for the good laugh Byker! And I'm still laughing from your suggestion a few weeks ago to the Packatolla cult youth of collecting the dog doo doo on lawns and mailing it in to the Wadsworth cult compound. Let the crap start flying in the Wonderful World of Tomorrow's Packland!


Anonymous said...

You are so right that, "I don't think Christ meant for a person to feel this way". God does not want us to feel controlled and imprisoned, in fear of his ministry. That is a dead giveaway that the ministers in RCG are not Christ's!! They can't be since they follow and support a false apostle! Though the disciples knew Christ was their leader and chief shepherd, they were not in fear of him. Christ called them his friends and treated them as such. True ministers of God will have the fruits of God's spirit. From all accounts those fruits are not evident in the HQ ministry.

Hopefully other ex-HQ staff as well as ex-ministry and ex-members out in the field will share their stories. If enough of us muster the courage to do what you have done, we will expose Dave Pack for the false leader that he is and flee from the captivity of his mind control!!

Sadly, many of us just leave quietly. Many are ashamed of having been taken in by this con artist and just want to slink away and lick our wounds in private, being thankful for our own freedom. But that does not help those brethren left in RCG. They will be told that those who leave are lost, will burn, etc. The secrecy of all the lies and mistreatment is what has allowed RCG to continue. The truth of what this organization trully is needs to be exposed. All the fake smiles on the automatons at HQ will continue as long as enough ex-members do nothing.

Let us hear some more stories and fully expose RCG as the Dave Pack Cult that it is. Then more brethren can have the courage to leave and start the healing process.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Thank you for posting your story and sharing your experiences with Dave Pack's splinter Armstrong business franchise. A couple thoughts came to my mind upon reading your story:

1) You are on your way to recovering first by acknowledging and confronting the fraud that was perpetrated on you. It is all good now that you have exited. Dave Pack is not the Judge and Jury (nor is ANY man) as to whom will or will not go into the Lake of Fire.

2) De-Program yourself - rid your mind of the garbage, and keep the good that came out of the experience. For me, the good was the basic tenets of living an honest life (Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill, etc.)

3) Once you get on your feet in recovery, tithe to your self. Continue taking 10% out of every dollar earned, and save it. Force yourself to do it. Put it into an IRA or 401K if you have it available. The years will go by quicker than you will ever realize it despite the "Time is short" claims of the false profits (OOps, I mean prophets) of Armstrongism.

4) As the years progress, transition from being a saver to an investor.

5) Build a legacy for yourself and your heirs.

I sat in Herbert Armstrong's Radio/Worldwide Church of God in my youth (1968-1976). I was brainwashed that "time was short" and that the Great Tribulation was right around the corner. The Great Tribulation has always been right around the corner for the past 80+ years of Armstrongism. The things I listed are the things I did when I left Armstrongism despite the estrangement from my family who remained in the Church. It is my observation from your experience that Dave Packatolla, in general, has taken Armstrongism to an extreme level of mind and body control that was not typically seen in the parent Worldwide Church of God. I offer Dave Pack's "Common" doctrine as one good example which was never preached by "God's Apostle" Herbert Armstrong.


Anonymous said...

Pack is a psycopath.

Byker Bob said...

Thanks, Richard. I sure hope everyone takes my occasional humor in the same spirit as you do! And, that's all it is, stuff to make people chuckle a bit. I wouldn't actually recommend that anyone get in a violent confrontation with Pack, because he has an obvious need to win, and probably would go to all lengths to do so, possibly even involving law enforcement. Besides, he's just not worth it. Ironically, he's a tall guy with small man's complex, because his spirit has been stunted by Armstrongism.


Byker Bob said...

Again, Richard, right on, and great advice for the people leaving or still stuck in RCG.

I would only correct one minor spelling error in your presentation. Dave has always claimed that RCG is not a splinter group, so hopefully, everyone will see the wisdom of this spelling correction. Splinter should be corrected to s-p-h-i-n-c-t-e-r, which is much more accurate as a descriptive, because RCG is largely coming out of Dave's anal orifice. That partially accounts for why the general aura so offensively assaults the senses.


Mark Wolfe said...

Very good advice from every preceding post. I would just add that you now have control over your own life. Which is what God has intended for every human being since it all began. And, you now have invaluable experience, at a young age, to the lengths other people will use to manipulate you into serving their personal agenda, with little regard for your own God given purpose.

Anonymous said...

I beg to differ about 'common' 'never preached' by Herb. I recall the 1970s and 1980s non stop mantra in church publications of 'give until it hurts, and then give some more.' Packatollas 'common' is just a extension of what Herb preached.

Anonymous said...

I would like to comment about "common" and HWA. I was in WCG from 1972 until the apostasy. I agree that Mr. Armstrong was always asking for money in most of the Brethren/Coworker letters but if my memory serves me correctly he did not make it a doctrine and tie it to salvation as
Dave Pack clearly does. I am no longer in RCG but Pack did state this as a qualifier in more than one sermon.

Anonymous said...

"He went as far as to say during a staff meeting that you were not spiritual enough if you walked by a piece of trash on the campus and did not pick it up."

Well then...next time you walk by Mr Pack on the campus........ pick him up. It's the spiritual thing to do!

Anonymous said...


To anyone who is in or considering going to Dave Packs The Restored Church Of God you need to watch these
videos which take his own words and show the world the FALSE PROPHET HE IS. Please share and get the word out!

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Anonymous 10:45 said, "Richard, I beg to differ about 'common' 'never preached' by Herb. I recall the 1970s and 1980s non stop mantra in church publications of 'give until it hurts, and then give some more.' Packatollas 'common' is just a extension of what Herb preached."

MY COMMENT - Agreed, "Common" is an extension of what Herbert Armstrong preached. And yes, I do remember the same non-stop mantras you cited. The difference between Packatolla's "Common" and HWA's non-stop fundraising mantras though is significant.

HWA would tell people to "mortgage your homes and send the money in for the final push". But from what I understand, Packatolla is telling people to liquidate their homes, send the money in and become Renters. HWA's members were allowed to retain ownership of their homes mortgaged for the Work to the hilt albeit, but Packatolla's Common requires members to give up their equity in homes from my understanding.

In old WCG, I remember a sermon or two on the subject of personal financial management (usually for the purpose of extracting more for the Work). In HWA's church, members were encouraged to save for emergencies and to have "rainy day funds" but Packatolla's Common requires members to send it all in and live with no life savings whatsoever.

But I do agree Packatolla's Common is an extension of what HWA's Church taught which is why I said that Dave Packatolla, in general, has taken Armstrongism to an extreme level of mind and body control that was not typically seen in the parent Worldwide Church of God.


Lake of Fire Church of God said...

I guess what I was trying to convey in my last post was the Dave Packolla through his "Common" doctrine wants his members completely destitute and impoverished so that he has complete control over members' minds and body. HWA NEVER preached or practiced that. In fact, we had some wealthy people in the WCG in the 1960s/1970s - landowners and landlords. And while they were constantly hit up for money (where your heart is, that is where your treasure will be also), it was not discouraged.

I distinctly remember a sermon Randy Dick gave about 1976 in Washington D.C. as our Pastor on "the days of Noah & Remembering Lot's wife". When he read Luke 17:28 "It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building", I remember him commenting about how there are wealthy people in the Church, and that there was nothing wrong per se with "buying and selling, planting and building" (assumes members had money and economic freedom to do so and therefore "No Common") as long as the Work of God came first.

So yes I agree with Anonymous 10:45 AM comment about Packatolla's Common being an extension, and yes mantra existed but no "Common" was never a belief of the WCG. This is Dave Packatolla's own "next logical iteration" of the money grab.


Anonymous said...

we had some wealthy people in the WCG in the 1960s/1970s - landowners and landlords. And while they were constantly hit up for money (where your heart is, that is where your treasure will be also), it was not discouraged.

Most WCG ministers enjoyed socializing with the wealthiest WCG members, not the poor ones. So, the WCG couldn't/wouldn't impoverish wealthy members.

Byker Bob said...

First of all, what good does it do for God to bless you, if your minister is no longer satisfied with mere tithes and generous offerings, but demands ALL of your blessings under the penalty of the Lake of Fire? Even if this were the true doctrine or application, what's so bad about the Lake of Fire? Why are the people in the ACOGs so afraid of a couple minutes of excruciating pain that you won't remember anyway?

Secondly, when Dave is counselling people for baptism, does he explain "common" to the prospects before they consent to be baptized? My guess would be not, because he knows that a couple of mouse clicks will reveal other purveyors of Armstrongism from which to choose.

People who become enriched through abusing others, and sapping their wealth, serve as an encouragement to others to do the same. These are the sorts of cycles which need to be broken rather than perpetuated.


Anonymous said...

The bible doesn't say whether people will be alive or dead when they are thrown in the lake of fire come judgment day. For the beast and false prophet yes, for everyone else, it doesn't say. My guess is that people will already be dead when thrown into the fire.

Anonymous said...

Hi. Sorry to hear that this man "pack" a former global/LCG minister, who stole rcg from the former leader Marty Cobb and placed himself in the leadership there. PACK is no apostle, get that straight from those of us who know his history, don't think that he keeps the 10 commandments, oh he expects others to tow the line. He was always an opportunist wanting to be in the leadership. Albeit servant leadership is not his game, but having others serve him, like so many other minstrds. This man is not converted, he may have knowledge of scripture or the truth given to him by others, what I hear on his program is watered down and does not make any sense. A true Apostle meaning "one sent forth", is a servant of the people and speaks The truth from scripture. This man does neither, you can tell from the fruits. I do feel sorry for his first wife, when she was ill, she had to undergo his fraternising with the nurse, whom I believed he married, very shortly after her death. THIS IS KEEPING the 7th COmmandment ????. YES ! DAVE I DARE YOU TO GIVE, YOU SIDE OF THE STORY, on this blog. PLEASE people, get away from this nutter, he is a FALSE APOSTLE, you will not be blessed, don't give him another dime. He is building his house on the sand, it will tumble down to nothing, unless,the Lord shall build the house the weary builders toil in vain.

Steve D said...

When the NT Church had everything in common, it was voluntary, not mandatory, to share with those in need. It wasn't give to the organization. I spent 4 yrs in the WCG and graduated from AC in 73. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention but I don't recall many sermons on the fruit of the Spirit. Could you imagine some of the leaders of WCG preaching on gentleness, kindness, etc. especially RCM? Jesus said that his disciples were not to "lord over" others. Like many other cults, leaders pick passages that seem to support their views, distort them and ignore the rest of Scripture. I remember HWA asking, "Why would a man want to have long hair, like a woman?" I would ask him today, "Why would you want to shave your face clean, like a woman's?" GTA's immoral behavior was excused because David also sinned. But the qualification for a king were not the same as an elder in I Tim. They believe and teach whatever they want and can easily find support for their views in Scripture.

Connie Schmidt said...

Response to anon 1:05 - Marty Cobb and Pack have never had anything in common and were not associated.

Cobb had a very small group called Church of God Restored, and it indeed existed well before Pack started his nonsense. Pack's church is called The Restored Church of God and had a whole separate genesis and start. Again, Pack and Cobb never had anything to do with each other, and Marty Cobb is a good and decent guy, unlike the Wolf Pack.

Anonymous said...

N.L, is that you? I couldn't find you on facebook. I hate that so many people has gone through that abuse, and the fact that they get so spiritually weak, that when they finally leave, they're not strong enough to hold fast to the truth.

Y.L. From South Africa

Byker Bob said...

Good point, 12:31. Also, if a person's only motivation is avoidance of the Lake of Fire, what good would that be? It is modifying one's behavior not from the fruits of the Spirit, not out of love, but simply performing robotic actions under duress. It isn't striving for goodness, but simple avoidance of consequences. In a sense, it's like Peter worrying about the wind. Some of these fiendish "leaders" know nothing of true motivation, but take a short cut or easy way to ensure their own wealth or the success of their little works, not realizing how far they are setting their followers back by focussing them on punishment, seeing God as a harsh, punishing judge just waiting to swoop down and destroy. It's exploitation, using God as a boogeyman.


Anonymous said...

“The 82 part and counting series on correcting much of the prophecy he says the church misunderstood has left people even more confused.”

After listening to David C. Pack's demon-inspired psycho-babble noise week after week and year after year, former Worldwide Church of God members who went with David Pack's Restored Cash Grab cult won't even remember what Herbert W. Armstrong had taught in the WCG about prophecy. Any new people coming into the RCG from the world will never even know what HWA had taught about prophecy.

It is very interesting that the false prophets like David C. Pack and Gerald R. Flurry, who spent the most time criticizing other groups and accusing them of changing what HWA had taught, have now themselves gone on to pervert worse than anyone else everything that HWA had taught.

Anonymous said...

I question whether all of Wolfman Packatollas victims were deceived and ignorant of his evil nature. When I attended services in the 1970s, our congregation had two different vile ministers over the years. In both cases, some members warmed up to them, enabling them to get away with abusing other members. I can't help wandering whether this type of member leaves the church after the minister violates the under the table agreement by turning on them. I don't think all of Dave's victims are Snow White.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous on August 3, 2017 at 9:35 AM said...“I question whether all of Wolfman Packatollas victims were deceived and ignorant of his evil nature. When I attended services in the 1970s, our congregation had two different vile ministers over the years. In both cases, some members warmed up to them, enabling them to get away with abusing other members. I can't help wandering whether this type of member leaves the church after the minister violates the under the table agreement by turning on them. I don't think all of Dave's victims are Snow White.”

Excellent point.

I am sure that many decent people from afar who did not personally know David Pack got fooled at the start. Dave is brutal. The test is severe. After people have gone “all in” with their bad bet that Dave is God's representative on planet earth, it becomes difficult for them to face the fact that it was all just a satanic scam. As Dave goes crazier and crazier, and some people stay with him, their innocence, courage, and honesty disappear. They become wilfully guilty, cowardly, and dishonest. Some of those who wanted to become the best can end up becoming the worst.

Dave has taught his followers to constantly spy on each other and report each other over every little thing. Dave is basically teaching them to be “accusers of the brethren” in the same way that Satan, the demons, and the wicked are constantly trying to find fault with true Christians and cause trouble for them.

Of course, there are always bad people who were bad from the start, and who just get worse. They will have a lot of fun playing religious games in the RCG, at least until their turn comes to get the yell and spit treatment from old Dave.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous on August 3, 2017 at 9:35 AM said...“I question whether all of Wolfman Packatollas victims were deceived and ignorant of his evil nature. When I attended services in the 1970s, our congregation had two different vile ministers over the years. In both cases, some members warmed up to them, enabling them to get away with abusing other members. I can't help wandering whether this type of member leaves the church after the minister violates the under the table agreement by turning on them. I don't think all of Dave's victims are Snow White.”

Gerald Flurry's PCG is another example of a cult full of bad people. The worst people got set up as local leaders/abusers. Those who went to the PCG so they could sin got kept and supported. Any decent people actually got criticized and put out of the PCG for trying not to sin. The local PCG goons were extremely malicious and dishonest.

People who simply, sincerely wanted to do what was right found themselves quickly expelled from the PCG. Those who actually wanted to do what was wrong, or who were willing to do wrong, got to stay in the PCG. If people had not refused to search out the truth, had not rejected the truth when presented to them by others, had not been willing to break up their own families and friendships, and had not been willing to keep company with unrepentant fornicators, adulterers, and other old sex perverts, they would not still be in the PCG.

Many bad things have been done to many people in Gerald Flurry's PCG and in David Pack's RCG, but you can be absolutely sure that not all of them were innocent people. The current members who are still in these two groups at this late date of 2017 will most likely have the most twisted minds of all.

Anonymous said...

It is interesting to see Dave Pack parked on his ass in front of the window, with other white shirt elites monitoring those working outside in the Ohio heat and humidity. Never has a truer picture of ministerial hypocrisy been photographed. What jerks.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Marty is a great guy was not comparing him to Pack, Pack kicked him out of the Restored organization.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:39: There are three white shirts reflected in the glass in that picture. The reflection on the right appears to be Dave. This does not diminish Dave's jerkness.

Hoss said...

What's Dave got in his right hand?
I thought it might be a microphone, and Dave was encouraging (unlikely) his workers, overlording, or micro-managing.

Gordon Feil said...

I don't know if the writer even sees these replies, but if so, you are the kind of employee I like: loyal and yet a critical thinker. That's a very valuable combination. In our parliamentary system we have "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition" and an organization that doesn't have such a thing misses the breadth and depth of wisdom that comes with the testing of ideas.

Anonymous said...

Yes I wondered what he was holding. Is it a latest high tech camera ?

Anonymous said...

"More and more people are coming out and saying the exact same things, down to precise details that cannot be made up. This stuff just cannot be made up!"

I feel for this young man, we also left RCG. This letter sums up the experience in so many ways. It is true, and it is amazing that the people still serving in RCG cannot seem to break free, even though they know these things are true. I know I had talked with many of them about these same issues before we left. They all agree, but cannot seem to break free of the spell. Mostly, because Pack had all of us scared to death about losing salvation if we didn't blindly follow him!

There is not much love there at all, mostly just threats and fear of being shamed from the pulpit. Of course, names are never mentioned, but just enough information is given so that everyone will know who he is talking about. People are scared not to tow the line, or fundraise, or donate, or whatever you are being told, not asked, to do!

His lifestyle is amazing compared to others in RCG. Of course, he pawns it off as needing to impress world leaders when the time is right. What, can't Christ work thru someone of humble means?

My hope is that others will be able to see the many issues, and untruth's, supported by RCG.

Gordon Feil said...

Anonymous, you have described the ACOG flaw ---- the notion that we have anything to do with our salvation. Romans 8 starts with no condemnation and ends with no separation, and everything in between agrees. When we remember who God is and what he can do, we don't need to fear men.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
This story sounds just like mine. I was another one of the young men that Pack has surrounded himself with. We were always on edge around him. No one wants to incur his wrath. I was exhausted every single day when I went home, which was usually late. Then I was up early to be seen at work before he arrived. The bit about working 7 days a week is true. There was no rest on the Sabbath. I lasted 6 years and then left. I had had enough. I do not attend any COG now because of what I experienced headquarters.

August 1, 2017 at 4:41 PM

Who are you?