Sunday, August 12, 2018

The Racist Policies of Ambassador/Imperial Schools In 1958: Herman Hoeh

It is a shame that even the youth were ingrained by some of the racist British Israelism crap that so many still look at today as 100% valid. Bob Thiel and others go out of their way to cover up this racist mentality, claiming it never existed in the church.

This same mentality carried over to Ambassador College.  Much to Herbert Armstrong's chagrin, social interaction was unavoidable between the races.  It was even going to go as far as having separate training classes for each race in order to send these men and women out to work within churches filled with their own racial heritage.  God forbid if they happened to be sent to an all-white congregation!

Contributed by:  SHT


Connie Schmidt said...

This post has got to be a dilemma for Bob Thiel. His "church" is composed of mostly Africans, but these statements come from HWA whom he also idolizes.

nck said...

I was just watching the Sammy Davis jr documentaruly "I ve got to be me." I would recommend it. A tearjerker but not sentimental at all.

Interesting perspective on the horrible history of race relations in the USA.

At the height of his career, on instigation of guests, management of the Sands had the pool drained after Sammy took a swim after a show and had not left The Strip as expected of blacks.

And it was not the fot or a ministerial conference.

Im glad tkach sr made some reparations toward sammy by donating to sammys causes on our behalf.

Of course hwa was a great fan of earv magic johnson and the lakers and had a lot of jazz in "gods house". I guess god had revealed that jazz was not a bad thing after all. God had left the improvizing to the members, while herbert was incapable of improvizing at later age.


nck said...

I am currently reading the 308 page memoirs of the african american Big Sandy campus cook.

An extremely important piece of personal history and part of americana. It really should be in the library of congress in my opinion.

Great grandmother lifting hands to heaven upon hearing of Lincolns view.

"Than God, slavey dayes are ova, chain days gone........"

Of course I am looking forward to the chapters where he describes how he came to respect hwa and work for the church.

Mighty interesting read that biography, as are this blogs clips on the sordid cultural faulty interpretation and reading of a just society by radio cg.


Window Friend said...

I never noticed any form of racism when I was in WCG. I think you people make this shit up as you go along. Here is a bit of friendly advice, get a life.

Anonymous said...

You must be thicker than a brick. The copied and pasted official stance of the church is as blatant as can be. Stop kissing Herbs ass and get over your self righteous self

Anonymous said...

Oh! Don’t you know that HWA and the WCG were just mirroring what was going on in mainstream Americana during that era? Why you bad, nasty revisionists you! How could you judge them using today’s standards???

(Not!!! HWA was mirroring mainstream 1950s and ‘60s Alabama! He was saying and fighting for the same things as George Wallace.)

HWA didn’t set no dates, neither. Hah! And LOL!

Window Friend said...

Anon 1:08, I am not a follower of Armstrong or any of his bitch churches. You must be as dumb as a box of rocks if you think everyone who comments on this blog is a believer in Armstong.

nck said...

In the late fifties herbert w armstrong considered raising "black" and eventually "yellow" ambassador colleges.

Potential Black ambassador college students were turned down for pasadena and referred to Paul Quimn college or Huston Tilletson college in Austin Texas who both used the ambassaor correspondence course for their bible classes.


Anonymous said...

I can affirm that these are the genuine Magazine articles as they were sent to members . The magazine was the Good News. The Date was March of 1958. The Author was Herman Hoeh. The evidence is absolute. Your denial is unmistakable. No one is making this up. This - and MUCH MORE EVIDENCE - affirms that this WAS the stance of the church.

One of the biggest issues with Armstrongist Apologists is that they deny what happened. Then, confronted with the evidence to the contrary, they either spin it in a fantasy way that does not exist, or accuse those who know what really happened that they are somehow making it up. We are not.

Instead of accusing those who actually look into what things REALLY were like, I would suggest you open your eyes, read, and actually SEE what the reality was..


RSK said...

More to the point, Window, I'm sure NO2HWA will happily provide the sources for the scanned excerpts if you think they're fabricated.

Anonymous said...

As a Black member of the church, I can state emphatically that there was rampant racism in the church. It is always the white people who claim there was no racism as they pat us on our heads and claim it was just the thing to do at the time they lived in. Ask any Black, Latino, Asians, or most non-Caucasians and they tell stories about how they were treated. That racist attitude was present when I came to Pasadena in the early 1960's. Pasadena itself was very racially segregated when I arrived in the mid 60's. Busing came into being in Pasadena in 1970 with much controversy. Some of you do not realize how condescending it is to hear people basically tell us to "get over it."

nck said...


Thank you 2:03 by dispelling the stupid idea that "racism was rampant in the south". The USA was and is in its entirety a racist nation. I gave the example of sammy davis in las vegas of all places. Perhaps the most liberal place in town.


Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

Anon 2:03
You are absolutely right. When I came into the RCOG in 1964, there was a Spanish church for the Latinos. Blacks had their own socials. As I remember non whites were accepted to AC if they were married. Maybe the church did reflect the attitudes of the 50,s and early 60’s but that is no excuse. Herbert claimed that God was revealing new knowledge and understanding directly to him. Herbert bragged that he had tomorrow’s news today. How come he didn’t see and know racism was WRONG. How come he didn’t insist that we are all one in Jesus Christ.

Byker Bob said...

The biggest problem in Armstrongism is that so many ministers and members read the old magazine articles, and they say to themselves, “That’s right, but we just can’t say it any more!”

They don’t learn, and it’s absolutely disgusting. The only thing I can think of that could possibly educate them out of this mindset would be a little multiracial grandchild looking up at them, and saying “I love you, Grandma and Grandpa.” Unfortunately, even that wouldn’t help the most hardcore.


Anonymous said...

If the church reflected the attitudes of the 1950's and 1960's, it's doctrines were not inspired by God, but by public opinion. Too bad that Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis were not tried for treason and executed. Perhaps the south would have been different.

Allen Dexter said...

"I never noticed any form of racism when I was in WCG. I think you people make this shit up as you go along. Here is a bit of friendly advice, get a life."

I was involved from 1952 to about 1975, and racism was a big part of much of that time. It got toned down as time went on, but you didn't even think of dating outside your race, etc.

Anonymous said...

NCK - is this biography you mention published? I'd love to read a copy. If published, could you please provide the name and author?

Hoss said...

Herbert bragged that he had tomorrow’s news today.

Yes, HWA was ahead of his time! He had FAKE news decades ago!

Anonymous said...

"How come he didn’t see and know racism was WRONG. How come he didn’t insist that we are all one in Jesus Christ. "

Because the true gospel of Jesus Christ is not compatible with Herbert Armstrong's "gospel", that's why. Herbert convinced people of a "different gospel" that was based on the principle of "All are NOT one."

Everything Herbert taught was a perversion of the true Gospel.

Still Learning said...

To the skeptic at 1:05 pm, here's a source for you:
Start reading on page 7.
You're welcome.

nck said...

Hello 6:49.

It is published in an extremely limited circle. The biography also reflects the current beliefs of the person with which I do not agree. But for research purposes I regard "personal histories" important for its often detailed descriptions of feelings, moods, sentiments one will not get from a history book.

For instance how the person was scared to death to meet with the radio church of god representatives. For the local kkk might interpret a black man meeting with such neatly groomed educated persons as an attempt to establish the next civil rights chapter and act accordingly.

And how most of the churches in the. Usa/South were segregated at the time.

And how radio church of god referred black ac material to two colleges in austin texas until a black ac would be established for the edification of all races.

That is priceless information.

I would never publish it on an "anti" blog out of respect for the person. Only send it directly to perhaps 2 or 3 here that I know would respect the historic scientific value of the testimony.

Perhaps we could establish an "email" relationship of trust if Dennis is willing to mediate our e-mail adress. Since I trust Dennis's ethics like a brother.


Byker Bob said...

If you are referring to Carlton Green, his book was featured and discussed on several of what you call “anti” sites a few years back. One of the big bombshells was that when he arrived in Big Sandy, he discovered that his children were not to be allowed to attend Imperial Schools. It was a big disappointment because that was one of the selling points he used in relocating his family.


nck said...

It would be interesting to look up Mr Green's book.
This is a later cook who passes his life's story down to his children.

I find it interesting to see how things worked for him in the 1970 Birmingham Alabama church, where the OWNERS of the rented building ruled on segregated seating in the armory building. (black people on the front rows)

For scheduling reasons some sabbaths were held at a different location, the American Legion Hall which had a white only policy and members of color would hold bible studies at home. About 1972 the Birmingham Alabama church had full integrated seating.

On their journey to the 1971 Jekyll Island feast site the police pulled the car over and did not seem very friendly. Everyone in the car was praying not to be lynched on their way to the Feast. And this was 1971.

A member who had been around Martin Luther King in his heydays taught him on the disagreements in the civil right movement who according to that teacher had chosen the "path of webb dubois", instead of "booker t washington, with direct confrontation. A faction did not seem to disagree with that route taken.

I find it very interesting to see how Arabian women took Saudi Arabia into extreme conservatism in 1978 by implementing freely full clothing coverage, or how black people defend strict adherence to rules forbidding interracial dancing and dating.

Especially from a person who at a very young age "imagined that the water tap on the other side would probably taste sweet or at least taste extremely enjoyable, only to be "disappointed" the white mens water tasted the same."