Written by Rod Meredith himself: December 1957
Did Rod Meredith foresee decades ago self-appointed wannabe's trying to rise up in the ministry?
I guess "Doubly Blessed" Bob thought that an accidental ordination was being "Doubly Careful" under Rod Meredith.
Rod Meredith made sure there was no chance of an "Accidental Ordination".
Sorry, Bob. Your ordination was absolutely not legitimate, by Rod's Own Words. And seeing that this was the man that you were under this man in corporate authority when you got accidentally doubly blessed and made into a something something - you know better than that.
So who ordained you, and authorized you to act as a minister and start the Continuing Church of God?
Rod Meredith knew that Thiel was not qualified to be ordained, which is why he refused to do it ever since Global and Living Church of God formed. Meredith knew that a large number of the membership had no respect for the guy and actually found him to be rather obnoxious. Thiel was not trained and certainly was NOT qualified to be ordained a minister. His bogus double blessing by Gaylyn Bonjour was no blessing at all to start a new church.
"Thus, we have been doubly "careful" in recent years
about ordaining
elders, deacons and deaconesses.
And we whould be!
22 comments:
Totally agree with the concept of being very careful who is ordained for anything and why. For better or worse by the 70's this concept was either forgotten or some pretty poor judgment was made. In hindsite it is ludicrous that church leaders did not interview guys before sending them into the ministry. They had their manpower meetings, private and secret for the most part. Even the man sent into the ministry never was able to know what was said about him and why. We do have some leaked info that is rather disturbing in the Manpower Papers in Ambassador Report.
No one asked me about going or not going into the ministry. One forum day we knew the names of those being "sent out" would be read and where. I found out I was going into the ministry a month before I was to be in Minneapolis. It was a stupid system and lead to many of the problems with deviant personalities we see to this day in Flurry, Pack and Weinland. Member wannabes such as Thiel and Malm came along from the local level.
I was told one strange thing, at least strange to me, by an Evangelist in the meetings. He said I was to be given the best assignment and "For you Dennis, the sky is the limit." I felt uncomfortable with that comment as even as kid going into ministry I did not think it was a profession where one rose to high position. He that is greatest among you let him be your servant and all that.
Biblically and I know this will drive some of you nuts. Paul was not ordained by any human being or living Apostle. Paul claimed his apostleship (May as well cut right through all the ranks and take the big one) was given him by the hallucinatory Christ on the road to Damascus. That's all we know. "Jesus Christ Himself, we can presume, from the manner in which Saint Luke (Acts) and Saint Paul speak of the encounter with Christ, on the road to Damascus. Paul is insistent that his apostleship is not secondary to the others or derived from them, but is from God Himself, as we read in the opening lines of Galatians:
1:1 Paul an apostle -- not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead -- "
This kind of title taking by Paul is even worse than Bob getting doubly blessed and screwing up the interpretation of that event. Paul would never have been ordained in the classic sense by the Apostles Peter, James and John. They were pretty much on to him from the beginning and Paul makes it clear in Galatians 1 and 2 those men taught him nothing and meant nothing to him. Those are the facts who ordained Paul. Basically the answer is no one unless a vison in his head counts which to him it did even if not to others.
Many theologians feel the "those who say they are Apostles and are not" and were rejected by the Ephesian Church in Revelation was Paul whom Jewish Christians hated with a passion. Revelation Jesus congratulated the Ephesians for booting him out. Paul later noted that "All in Asia have forsaken me" so even Paul admits everyone rejected him. All is a lot.
con't
Paul does not claim the Damascus Road story himself. That is Luke's story about Paul in Acts 9 and includes his conversion from Saul the Temple Policeman and Thug for the Sadducees most likely, to Paul. Why the name change is anybody's guess. Acts is a story Luke makes up and even confuses the details in the telling several times.
Paul says in Galatians 1:15 he was set apart before he was even born. You may as well go for the big callings and Paul did. Only Jesus and Jeremiah in scripture were said to have been called before they were born
"15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not rush to consult with flesh and blood,…"
So while Bob, like Paul's ordination was made up, unearthly and did not consist of the typical laying on of hands by those who approved of the man's calling in the chain of church command, it evidently is not to be questioned.
I'm going to go and have a dream now and will get back to you with my new title once I have the dream or better yet, a vision you won't be able to check out but just have to accept :)
Here are the things Bob needs qualifications for.
1. Developing a sermon that is interesting, charismatic, pointed, and watchable.
2. Building bookcases.
3. Gesturing in an articulate, non-forced, natural manner.
4. Shopping for curtains.
5. Knowing the difference between a "Prayer Anointing" and a "Ministerial Ordination".
6. Interpreting dreams.
7. Knowing the sincere beliefs and reasons of membership of African members.
8. Understanding the definition, act, and reason for the word "humility".
9. Development of denominational and internet-worthy "Animations".
10. The interpretations of Mayan, Catholic, and Cult prophesies.
11. Knowing what not to eat before bedtime to prevent dreams about lines.
12. Respect is not earned by Ph.D's, Div.D's, or other D's- but by ethical and respectful behavior.
In my Opinion, as always.
Dennis,
From the Home Office in Punxsutawny, Pennsylvania, (not really) Here is a list of Ecclesiastical Titles to choose from!
Bishop, Cardinal, Deacon, Presbyter, Primate, Coadjutor Bishop, Metropolitan Bishop, Protodeacon, Archbishop, Chaplain, Pastor, Priest, Provost, Chancellor, Executive Bishop, Elder, Senior Pastor, Evangelist, Moderator, Patriarch, Archpriest, Reverend
Here is a list of sub-ranks to choose from to add to it!
Training, Local, District, Regional, National, Assistant, Associate, Supervisory, Lead, Worship, Youth, Senior, Junior, Teen, Group, Temporary, Probational, Tenured, Singles, Couples, Pastoral, Music, Dance, Drama, Reconciliation, Financial, Doctrinal, Divisional, Legal, Advisory.
Awaiting your selection! ;)
-SHT
Well its changed alot since 1957. Nowadays they are reduced to scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to ordaining.
From Bob's own words, it appears that the only "office" RCM gave him was as an advisor, to make sure he (RCM) didn't "pull punches". This was an upward advising job, not a leadership job. No wonder Bob said he didn't like it.
RCM and others had "no respect for the guy and actually found him to be rather obnoxious." I thought RCM and others were obnoxious, also. What were the REAL qualifications for ordination in the WCG? Exhibiting "fruit of the Spirit", NO. How many of us, when we thought about RCM and others, the first things that came to our minds were "kindness, gentleness, patience, etc."? There was one major qualification, above all one had to be LOYAL. Not to the Bible. Not to Christian principles. Not to truth. But to HWA himself. Accepting without question and supporting without hesitation whatever HWA said was PROOF that you were qualified to be in a position of authority in the WCG.
I remember the photos in the Envoy of the Board of Trustees sitting around the conference table for their annual photo. The only person with any real power was sitting at the head of the table, HWA. Most of the others had little more than nice titles, offices and homes on Waverly Drive. They were what we used to call empty suits. Weekend cowboys, all hat and no cattle. Their main qualification was their ability to be a cheerleader for the boss. This was like the Sopranos or the Goodfellas. One bad move on your part and you could get wacked. In WCG case, getting wacked meant, I think, that you were shipped off to Bricket Wood. Deputy Chancellor of Bricket Wood. WOW, is that not am empty title. I imagine that when people like Raymond McNair went there he didn't even have the authority to decide which way to hang the toilet paper, in or out. Working for HWA was probably like living with an alcoholic, always walking on eggs, wondering what might set him off today. Join the WCG and leave your brain at the door. Become a minister and leave your self-respect behind. Thank God for unanswered prayer when I wasn't "chosen" to be employed by the work when I graduated from AC.
SHT...I knew a man about 14 minutes ago, whether in a dream or a vision, I know not. And he (I"m telling this for a friend) saw and heard things that he cannot reveal at this time. Wonderful things. And the Angel Doo Fuss said unto me, "Thou art Dennis, and this be all thou shalt be. So let it be written, so let it be said...amen. Now get out of here!"
I asked for a double blessing but all I got was a Heavenly "Meh"...
It's a pity Rod Meredith didn't make "doubly sure" before he ordained Joe Tkatch. Could have saved himself and others a lot of problems if he had.
The SDAs and many other churches do not "ordain for life". You have local elected boards that review you every year or two, and can decide to "renew your contract" or not. This at least allows for some kind of "flush system" The "once ordained, always ordained" idea allows for a lot of dead beats , listless , jaded and downright unconverted people to continue in the office.
Hoss wrote: From Bob's own words, it appears that the only "office" RCM gave him was as an advisor, to make sure he (RCM) didn't "pull punches". This was an upward advising job, not a leadership job. No wonder Bob said he didn't like it.
This. Bob's self-justifying writings are filled with accusations that RCM and the other evangelists promised to act on advice given by the Pathetic Pseudo-Prophet, but then reneged on their promises. In truth, though, anyone familiar with how WCG/RCM really operated will recognize that LCG leaders were not ignoring the pronouncements of a prophet, they were doing their best to humor a big donor and keep the money coming in.
" In truth, though, anyone familiar with how WCG/RCM really operated will recognize that LCG leaders were not ignoring the pronouncements of a prophet, they were doing their best to humor a big donor and keep the money coming in. "
EXACTLY.
In the process of humoring the "big donor, Ph.D", and keeping the money coming in, the unintended (or intended) consequence was a balloon of pride that kept puffing and puffing and puffing.
Now, we have the result of all that pride and what it has accomplished. A small church run from a vitamin shop based on an accidental ordination based on a dream about lines going up and down that somehow allowed the skip of deacon, local church elder, elder, pastor, evangelist straight to Prophet or Apostle or whatever was conjured up.
My satire paragraph for him in good humor is a bit more realistic, along the lines of the many titles that we know of here:
"Founder and Animator-In-Chief of The Society of Misconstrued Ideologies, Director of The First Association of Crooked Bookcases, and Chairman of The Lion and the Lamb Foundation of 1970s Curtains. Oscillator of The Exercise Society of Wild Gestures, and Attempted Interpreter of Catholic and Mayan Prophecies. Writer of an outdated book on 2012 Which No One Reads Anymore. First Dreamer of Bar Graph Lines. Apologist of A Drop-Out Salesman and False Prophet."
"The SDAs and many other churches do not "ordain for life". You have local elected boards that review you every year or two, and can decide to "renew your contract" or not. This at least allows for some kind of "flush system" The "once ordained, always ordained" idea allows for a lot of dead beats , listless , jaded and downright unconverted people to continue in the office."
The word is "accountability", something that in the WCG there was none of.
Once you were ordained as a full-time preaching elder or pastor, yes, it was for life. HWA's policy of "believe the minister above any beyond the claims of a member" allowed them to get away with a great deal of harm. The worst that could happen to them, in most cases, was a transfer to another congregation - much to that congregations's dismay and horror.
But when you did cross "The Buck That Stops Here", it was a punishing, often terminable blow with extreme consequences. No retirement, marked from fellowship, no other experience... so, you just didn't cross that line. (i.e. Don't Challenge Herbert Armstrong.) You had everything made - job, fleet car, housing. As long as you were "YES" to HQ, kept the tithes flowing - any other accusations, true or not, against the minister were dismissed. You were a ministerial slave, with nowhere to go even if you wanted to. You were caught between a rock and a hard place.
Unless you woke up and decided to face whatever storm was out there in the real world, which some did - and turned out to be okay in the long run.
-SHT
@12:50PM, you're right, but it's worse than that. The Pathetic Pseudo-Prophet, in order to claim his authority, has to start with the same premise that got Gerald Flurry off the ground, that HWA was wrong when he wrote that there are no prophets with administrative authority in the New Testament Church. In other words, Bitter Bob can be a Prophet, or he can be an Overseer, but he cannot be BOTH unless he asserts that HWA didn't know what he was talking about... and if HWA didn't know what he was talking about, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down!
1. Developing a sermon that is interesting, charismatic, pointed, and watchable.
In an interview Jeopardy! host Alex Trebek said he spent 30 minutes reviewing the clues for 5 shows that would be taped; this was primarily to check pronunciation. I suggest to Bob he does something similar.
And I'm sure Bible wall maps are not expensive. In one sermon, Bob tried to use the maps in the back of a Bible to show where Paul traveled. Later in the sermon, he reverted to using his hand to represent Asia Minor...
Please help me understand. I had never heard of Bob Thiel until seeing him discussed on this website. Same goes for James Malm and Ron Weinland. I gather that Bob Thiel receive attention and rose up from a local congregation WCG, GCG and or LCG, and was a major donor. Because of his wealth, he was protected and outwardly respected by RCM due to his large donations. At some point in time (does anyone know when?) he was kicked out of LCG due to his strange doctrines and prophecies that never come to pass. And now he on his own trying to gain a following via videos and cartoons. Is that close to the factual story line? And this is the reason we see his teachings frequently discussed on this site? So many splinters, sometimes I just can't keep up. Is Thiel considered the weirdest?
In the grand scheme of things, it probably isn't important, but I like to be informed when possible. Thank you in advance for any clarification.
If HWA revoked someone's credentials, wouldn't that call into question his judgment? It's like changing his mind on a doctrine. Neither he nor the Pope can admit error or the flood gates would open and everything would be called into question, even their legitimacy.
Anonymous 1:08 PM said, " In other words, Bitter Bob can be a Prophet, or he can be an Overseer, but he cannot be BOTH unless he asserts that HWA didn't know what he was talking about".
MY COMMENT - Thank you! I have been saying the same thing here on Banned for months - that doubly blessed almost arrested for Sabbath keeping Dr. Bitter Bob Thiel is a double-minded man and can't make up his mind whether he is a Prophet or a Pastor General. Because he can't be both!
Richard
Bible quote of the day - James 1:8: "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways".
well, i am sure the 7th day adventist felt the same about hwa back in the day...
c f ben yochanan
All in "lockstep" to the tune "Show me the $$" Kaching, kaching, kaching. :-)
Tracking B. Thiel: Bob was in the WCG, then went with GCG, and then LCG. As to his present situation, a suitable place to start would be to let Bob tell you himself why he left the LCG.
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