Tuesday, August 7, 2012

"stench coming from PKG teachings should have us all vomiting"

Dave Pack is wetting his pants again over another defecting minister.  Apparently one of Ron Weinlands ministers has had his eyes anointed and seen the light.  He has jumped the sinking ship of Weinerdudeland to join up with the worlds most earth shaking ministry lead by God's most perfect earthly messenger.

Adrian Gray from New Zealand is ready to start his stay in the reeducation camp in Wadsworth, Ohio.

Gray writes:

Dear Brethren,

I am a senior elder in The Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God (PKG). Both my wife and I have been deeply troubled over the last number of years with the teachings of Mr. Weinland.

As is often the case, our concerns started with a question about one doctrine, but this one problem quickly grew into many, and then became a virtual avalanche of questions. We sought answers, but there were none to be found. One evangelist even remarked to a member that it was not his job to explain Scripture!

Mr. Weinland claims to be a “Prophet of the God of Abraham,” as well as claiming other offices and titles. Yet not one of Mr. Weinland’s prophecies has come true! All have failed! Now more recently he has been convicted on 5 counts of tax fraud in the U.S. After so many of his failed prophecies and his disgraceful fraudulent behavior, are we to blindly follow a man because he tells us not to question what he teaches? Of course not!
At least you have to had it to the guy to have finally waken up to the fact that Ron is a convicted felon. Listening to Weinerdude's recent sermons, preaching by his remaining ministers and others, you would never know that Ron is ready to go to prison.

During Gray's few days in Pack's reeducation camp he has come forth with these points that prove Ron Weinalnd to be a liar.

False Teaching: There is no literal place of safety—but rather God is our Rock and can protect us anywhere.

False Teaching: The first 4 seals of Revelation are spiritual, relate to the Church and have already taken place.

False Teaching: The Philadelphian and Laodicean eras of the Church are finished and the Church is in a time of transition.

False Teaching: The Work was finished at Mr. Armstrong’s death.

False Teaching: Satan and the Demons are going to die.

False Teaching: Women may be ordained as elders.
This was a pet teaching of Weinerdude.  By claiming women could be ordained it allowed Laura to receive all the legal perks that a regular minister would according to IRS regulations. However, Laura and Ron both abused that privileged and went on spending spree after spending spree.  Diamonds, gold, BMW's, unlimited bank accounts, Las Vegas spending sprees and money laundering occupied their warped minds.
False Teaching: Mr. Ron Weinland and his wife are the Two Witnesses and they have finished their job.
False Teaching: Ronald Weinland says he is a Prophet, an Apostle, a Witness, and the Elijah to come.  

So it's wrong for Weinerdude to claim to be prophet but it is OK for Dave to claim the same thing?  Dave is no more a prophet that my cat laying next to me. 

Gray goes on to write:

The PKG websites say that a remnant of the Worldwide Church of God is to be awakened and will join PKG. This will supposedly consist of 3.3% (10 percent of a third) of those who were members of the WCG before the apostasy began: a total of 3200 people (32,000 x. 0033). If that seems confusing to you, that’s because it is utter nonsense and unbiblical!

This number has now been changed to 63,000 people.

The very small sampling of false teachings listed above is just the very tip of the iceberg of changes made by Ronald Weinland. Christ’s admonition to Philadelphia to “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11) has been tossed out, and the doctrines restored to that era have now been replaced with false teachings that do not come from God.

In Matthew 17:16, Jesus said, “You shall know them by their fruits.” Will we come to know and understand the true Ron Weinland—a deceived false prophet?

Ron has a saying: to look at other teachings or criticism of him is to go through the garbage bin, and even a little look leaves a stench on you. What does Ron Weinland have to hide? The answer—a whole lot of unbiblical nonsense.

The absolute stench coming from PKG teachings should have us all vomiting; instead we are like the analogy of the frog in hot water. We have gradually adjusted to the heating water, and eventually it will be too late to get out of the pot, and we will eventually die if we remain there.
Gray has bought into Dave Pack's lies hook, line and sinker.  He is too blind to see what he writes below is also a perfect description of Dave Pack:

False ministers are clever deceivers. As a false minister, Ron uses the old mind game of “if you say it often enough, they will believe it.” To continue questioning his teachings from within his group only leads to feelings of spiritual inadequacy.

His clever deception causes his followers to feel spiritually weak and inferior, coercing or bullying them to blindly follow along with his teachings. In the process they become spiritually weaker and weaker. This is similar to what happened in the last days of Worldwide.
 You can read Gray's long screed here: Senior Elder (New Zealand Church Pastor) Resigns from Ron Weinland’s COG – PKG


Byker Bob said...

Well, seems this is a good place to post this, so:

The enemy often works in some very insidious ways. Suppose, as an example, you have a false teacher who sets up a barrage of what we'll call for lack of a better term "fake crap". This could be stuff that is extrabiblical, it could be extrapolating Biblical principles to ridiculous and legalistic extremes so that it mutes God's royal law of love, or it could be convincing others that one is God's personal representative and then exercising power in cruel or dictatorial ways which usurp God's own role in the personal relationship you may have with Him.

Here's the problem, and it relates to the human mind. Paul understood this when he spoke of conscience. If you become filled with righteous indignation and rebel against this fake crap, and if even part of you has been convinced by the false and dictatiorial teacher that in so doing you are rebelling against God, in your own mind it becomes equal to rebelling against God. At that point, your mind is fighting your imagination. It's a horrible and confusing state of mind to be in, a byproduct of the jetsam and flotsam left in the wake of false teachers. You've got ot wash your mind! You've got to refill it with Godly precepts, real precepts, and not more fake crap. This is why wandering from one ACOG to another is no solution at all and will never clean up all "their" bad symptoms.


Assistant Deacon said...

"Before sharing with you where I have found God’s truth..."

Truly suspenseful, appearing on an RCG-sponsored propaganda blog.

Oh, do tell, Adrian, do tell...

DennisCDiehl said...

Since Ron only came on the scene publically around 2008 with his goofy prophecies and since Adrian said:

"I am a senior elder in The Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God (PKG). Both my wife and I have been deeply troubled over the last number of years with the teachings of Mr. Weinland."

....we can assume that Adrian wasn't exactly speaking up to about these deeply disturbing things.

He's perfect for Dave Pack. He'll never question Dave's arrogance, control freak ways, no advice taking and never made a mistake in his stupendous life approach to ministry.

I wonder what the training of Adrian as a "Senior Pastor" was? Booklets? Kiss up to Ron? Maybe he's a jeweler by trade? Or maybe owns a BMW dealership?


DennisCDiehl said...

The Book of Revelation was probably and actually written between January and September of 70AD and was a Jewish Christian "prophecy" meant to encourage the brothers to hang in there until the Messiah "shortly" routed the Romans.

It's a long interesting story but was never meant to be fastforwarded into the 21st Century. To the Jewish Christians of the day, Vespasion was the Beast and the Gentile loving Torah hating Jew who said he was an Apostle to the Ephesians and was not, was the Apostle Paul.

Both were great candidates for the Lake of Fire as far as the Jewish Christian writer of Revelation was concerned.

"He was also the King of kings, the Davidic ruler, the Star of jacob, the Christ who would conquer the Gentiles and rule them with a rod of iron. To the very end, the Jewish Christians failed to comprehend or to accept the one solitary element from the Gospel which did not come directly from Zoroastrianized Judaism. Revelation was the swan song of the Militant jewish Christianity. when Jerusalem was destroyed, when Rome waxed greater and more powerful, when the False prophet gained more and more followers, when the book itself was proved totally false within two years, when it became evident that the jewish messiah Christ would not come, the Hebrew Christians lost their virility, andt heir cult faded under the combined assault of otrthodox judaism and of Gentile (Pauline) Christianity."

Religion of the Occident, Martin Larson, p. 479

All the failed COG's filter their worldview and theology through a now 2000 year old failed prophecy.

How's that for a waste of life time?

Byker Bob said...


I really wish you wouldn't state authority and as fact things which are not settled and are still the subject of very active debate amongst authentic historical and biblical scholars.

Scholars have selected two possible dates for Revelation, both partially based on the periods of massive persecution of Christians. These happened during the emperorships of Nero and Domitian. Domitian was emperor during the 90s AD.

Corky tried to help you out over at Gavins by explaining about the bar Kokhba revolution, during which the final and definitive destruction of Jerusalem and Israel occurred. That's another event that the prophecies of Revelation have been applied to, and some feel that the book was fulfilled at that time.

The problem in teaching that either of these events, (as awful as they were for people who lived and died in them), constituted the fulfillment of Revelation is that Jesus has not as yet returned, nor have any of the other events towards the end of the book happened. I know that places us in a position where the jury is still out until they do, but that's just the way it is if one wishes to be honest.


Byker Bob said...

Typo alert: That should be "state authoritatively", not state authority.


DennisCDiehl said...

Bob, I'm just relating , for consideration, that the Book of Revelation is not a book for today and many theologians would tell anyone that. "Things which must shortly come to pass." "Behold I come quickly," "They that pierced him shall see him." must mean something different to you as you endeavor to hold your own belief system in tack.

Seeing what one sees is not the same as rebelling against God. You still seem to have or have reaquired a certain God haunted aire about your own comments as if you could really know them to be true. That's fine, but you often imply that somehow your satan has gotten into others who are hurting the delicate in the church, wherever that may be.

Please explain to me how you view the above phrases in Revelation about who should be anticipating it's message. Does "soon" mean "not soon at all" to you, or do you filter out all the "time is short," "the day far spent," "it is the last hour," "We who are alive,....." and all you should know, in ways that just don't mean what they say because they actually failed 2000 years ago to be true.

WOuld you not say the apostle Paul was a false prophet or Apostle being so badly wrong about how it would all go for those folks under him who would all be changed shortly..? Explain how you apologize for these concepts to me.

DennisCDiehl said...

"I really wish you wouldn't state authority and as fact things which are not settled and are still the subject of very active debate amongst authentic historical and biblical scholars"

It's called taking a point of view Bob after weighing all the current views. It is never going to be decided. It will always be debated but taking a position is pretty darn normal.

I could ask you not to be so dogmatic about "the adversary' and the "enemy" who is no doubt Satan. You never met Satan. You can't prove he exists. I side with Ellaine Pagels in her book, The Origin of Satan. I think she has helped me see how to view this kind of magical thinking topic.

You have made you're own choices as to belief so you get yours and I get mine. That's how life and seeking works

DennisCDiehl said...

"Here's the problem, and it relates to the human mind. Paul understood this when he spoke of conscience. If you become filled with righteous indignation and rebel against this fake crap,... and if even part of you has been convinced by the false and dictatiorial teacher that in so doing you are rebelling against God..."

Sometimes BB, you just don't make any sense or at least blow off ideas not comfortable I suppose in very judgemental and meandering ways as if you really knew what "the problem" is...

It's not a problem. It's reading outside of the Sunday School rendition of the Bible. It's curiosity and answering questions one always has wondered about and that made no sense as explained.

Magical thinking is not the ultimate proof of Biblical origins, content and history.

Assistant Deacon said...

"Both my wife and I have been deeply troubled over the last number of years with the teachings of Mr. Weinland.

Then what they hell were they still doing in Weiner's church?

These people don't know what they think from one year to the next. Of course, as he continues to ramble he reveals why:

"Having had Ron Weinland do all our spiritual thinking for us for many years, it is time to prove all things for ourselves."

That's just pathetic.

Got yourself another Einstein, there, Davey. Enjoy.

Anonymous said...

"stench coming from PKG teachings should have us all vomiting"

Yes, should have. So, Adrian Gray from New Zealand, why didn't you vomit? Perhaps the stench didn't seem so bad as long as you got to be a "minister" and collect a paycheck.

Now that the clown Ronald McWeinland is going to jail, it looks like it is time for you to find someone else to make you a "minister" and give you a paycheck. As David Pack wrote in his book called The Government of God, "Of course, at predictable moments, such men often 'see the light' and 'recover.'" Frankly, this looks like just another one of those "predictable moments."

I think it is great whenever some sincere person escapes from a complete fraud like Ronald the clown who has deceived them. The escaping gullible goof could go become a member of David Pack's Restored Church, and listen and learn. But become a minister in it???

In the (Dis)United Church, those who had eagerly helped Joseph Tkach, Sr. to destroy the World Wide Church got new paying jobs.

In Gerald's PCG cult, the worst, most abusive, power-hungry freaks and perverts around got set up as "ministers" when no World Wide Church ministers went with that little liar (who told big lies).

Why do ordinary, sincere, little members who just want to support the truth of God always end up getting stuck putting up with the worst dungheads around for so-called "ministers"?

Are there no decent, sensible, honest people looking for jobs as ministers these days in the COGs? Is it just the wicked, paycheck-hungry morons and perverts who seek to be "ministers"?

Anonymous said...

This looks bad, but at least this guy looking for another paycheck is from New Zealand. It could have been worse. It could have been another money seminar guy from Nigeria

Anonymous said...

Would Adrian Gray be content to be just another member in the RCG, and be willing to get an honest job to help support the RCG?

Or, does Adrian Gray need to become a paid "minister" to make this move work?

Anonymous said...

Adrian Gray wrote: "...The absolute stench coming from PKG teachings should have us all vomiting; instead we are like the analogy of the frog in hot water. We have gradually adjusted to the heating water, and eventually it will be too late to get out of the pot, and we will eventually die if we remain there..."

Apparantly Adrian is not aware of the following research article regarding a frog being dumb enough to remain in water that is raising in temperature from cold to hot:


Next Time, What Say We Boil a Consultant

By Fast Company
October 31, 1995

Consultant Debunking Unit

According to consulting lore, corporate change all boils down to frogs.

In case you haven't heard it (and who hasn't? the frog story ranks number one on the change hit parade), Manfred Kets de Vries published the fable in his recent book, "Life and Death in the Executive Fast Lane":

"Take a pot of hot water and a frog. Throw the frog into the pot. What do you think will happen? The obvious, of course: the frog will jump out. Who likes hanging around in a pot of hot water? Now ... [t]ake a pot of cold water, put the frog in it, and place the pot on the stove. Turn on the heat. This time something different will occur. The frog, because of the incremental change in temperature, will not notice that it is slowly being boiled. Unfortunately, many organizations, as they grow, begin to resemble the boiled frog."

Fast Company's investigative team, the "Consultant Debunking Unit", put the frog story to the test.

First we spoke with national scientific authorities. According to Dr. George R. Zug, curator of reptiles and amphibians, the National Museum of Natural History, "Well that's, may I say, bullshit. If a frog had a means of getting out, it certainly would get out. And I cannot imagine that anything dropped in boiling water would not be scalded and die from the injuries."

Professor Doug Melton, Harvard University Biology Department, says, "If you put a frog in boiling water, it won't jump out. It will die. If you put it in cold water, it will jump before it gets hot -- they don't sit still for you."

We then called on our Testing Laboratory to conduct an empirical test. Participating were Thomas Hout, vice president of the Boston Consulting Group and coauthor of "Competing Against Time"; and J. Debra Hofman, research associate at MIT's Center for Information Systems Research and coauthor of "Implementing Radical Change: Gradual Versus Rapid Pace."

We placed Frog A into a pot of cold water and applied moderate heat. At 4.20 seconds, it safely exited the pot with a leap of 24 centimeters. We then placed Frog B into a pot of lukewarm water and applied moderate heat. At 1.57 seconds, it safely exited the pot with a leap of 57 centimeters.

How did our expert interpret this triumph of science? "There are certain cases where gradual change is almost preferred," Hofman commented. "The change myth assumes a very narrow view of people. If frogs can do it, people definitely can."

A version of this article appears in the November 1995 issue of Fast Company.

In any event, PKG and its leaders are anything but "hot!" So why hang around there?


Dave said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

"Well that's, may I say, bullshit."

One might say that story is bullfrogshit.

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Regarding Adrian's employment, I believe that the only elder besides Ron on the PKG payroll is his daughter Audra. Somehow I doubt that Clarion Call Dave will put him on his payroll.

Byker Bob said...

Dennis, because you were once a WCG minister, there are still some people who look to you, especially since you have written widely over the past several years. As an example, there were several people here about a year ago who were repeating after Dennis and stating that Paul never existed.

If you want to weigh things, and come to a conclusion (and I'm glad you admitted to that!), and then teach it here as fact, then people need to know that they should take what you say with a grain of salt, and be sure to do their own research.


Byker Bob said...


I've seen a number of people read too much into biblical phrases like "soon". Hypothetically speaking (for all our atheist buddies), if there were an eternal being who didn't live on a planet where the sun rose and set every day, then that being would be said not to be bound by the time-space continuum. If that being were inspiring a human instrument to use the term "soon" the word could be from his perspective, or tied to human perspective. The word certainly creates a sense of urgency, doesn't it?

The problem is that this sense of urgency was usurped and exploited, and used as an instrument of spiritual rape of us all by HWA. That fat little devil even set dates. So, an ACOG-recovering mind is going to react to anything that even seems similar, if for nothing else, to prevent additional rape. Most former WCG members also reject the idea of global warming, and disbelieve in any long-wave economic cycles which include depression.


Byker Bob said...

And, finally, I spent from about 1975 to 2006 thinking outside of the box, experimenting with other philosophies, reading widely, and looking for answers, none of which was satisfying. Many of you guys here are "class of '95". Worse, yet, Paul was used by the Tkaches to leverage all of the changes to evangelicalism. Believe me, I understand where you are coming from.

But, with the physical things which are used to support either belief or disbelief, making leaps in logic, or coming to conclusions that trained scholars are unwilling to embrace conclusively was not good form in Armstrongism, and it certainly continues disingenuousness if we perpetuate it in our post-Armstrong life.


Assistant Deacon said...

"Dennis, because you were once a WCG minister, there are still some people who look to you..."

BB, I seriously doubt it, with all due respect to Dennis.

We is all equals, here, we is. (Except for that Anonymous poster who called me "Assisting Demons." Doesn't he/she know they don't give out armbands for that?)

Anonymous said...

Are there any former ministers from the WCG here?

I'm so weak, that's the only ones who I could believe.


Anonymous said...

Mr. Adrian Gray, have you heard of what happened to Mr. Michael Venish? The minister from South Africa who joined RCG and ended up being suspended and then DF?? He believed in Dave Pack so much, that when he was already "feeling" his being a "minister of RCG," DP's relatives and friends gang up on him?

Venish got the shock of his life! DP capable of such "arrogance?" Poor Venish he believed in DP so much that he is loved. Until he started acting like a true minister with authority. It irritated the ones with "real authority." So off Venish went out of RCG.

Keep your "humility" Adrian, lest you be kicked off too.