Wednesday, November 13, 2013

Bob Thiel Feels That Christians Being Killed In Iraq And Elsewhere Are Not Real Christians

Baghdad, Iraq - Two Assyrian Christian children have been killed in Baghdad. Raneed Raad 16 and her sister Raphid 6 were slaughtered in their home. 
 The family who are well known Assyrian Christians had been threatened. While the family was out terrorists entered and shot the two Children at point blank range. Commentary: Christians Targeted in Iraq! Massacre in Baghdad: Children 6 and 16 Killed at Home!

Bob Thiel is back with his holier-than-thou self-righteous smug attitude.  This time he is using an article from the BBC that claims the number being thrown around on the Internet of Christians being killed around the world is not accurate. BBC dismisses recent ‘Christian martyr’ estimates, but persecution exists and more is coming

Theil quotes this:

It’s often claimed that 100,000 Christians are killed every year because of their religion. Earlier this year, the Vatican called it a credible number. But is it?…
On the internet, the statistic has taken on a life of its own, popping up all over the place, sometimes with an additional detail – that these 100,000 lives are taken by Muslims.
The number comes originally from the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in the US state of
Massachusetts…when you hear that 100,000 Christians are dying for their faith, you need to keep in mind that the vast majority – 90,000 – are people who were killed in DR Congo. This means we can say right away that the internet rumours of Muslims being behind the killing of 100,000 Christian martyrs are nonsense. The DRC is a Christian country. In the civil war, Christians were killing Christians…
If you were to take away the 90,000 deaths in DR Congo from the CSGC’s figure of 100,000, that would leave 10,000 martyrs per year.
And the number of Christians who are killed each year because they are Christians is more likely to be in that order of magnitude, according to Professor Thomas Schirrmacher from the International Society for Human Rights.
Then Theil, God's greatest gift to the Church of God, says this:

I would add that although I do not consider that many killed were actual Christians (and the Bible shows that real Christians would not be killing other real Christians, see, for example ), the fact is that many who profess forms of Christianity are being persecuted and killed in many parts of the world and this is not setting off the amount of international outrage that many would expect.  And this BBC piece, while correct in some points, seems designed to reduce outrage of violence against those being persecuted/killed in Islamic and other lands.
Because some of these people were NOT Church of God members, and more specifically NOT part of Bob's cult, their deaths are not as important if they have been COG folk.

While I am well aware of the BBC bias towards Muslims, or Asians as the BBC refers to them, Thiel is correct in pointing out that it is written to negate those killed in Muslim lands.  That is a topic for another time and place.  The problem I have is Bob's incessant smear campaign towards Christians who are not part of the sabbath keeping, holy day observing, non-pig eating Church of God.  Their deaths are not as important as they would have been if they were COG members.

He then tries to cover his ass with this:

What has happened to various people who profess Christians in places such as Egypt, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, and other lands is wrong.

That being said, the Bible tells of a time when more persecution will hit those truly part of the Church of God.

...and then goes on to claim that TRUE COG members will be killed by the Catholic Church.  His personality cult will face the brunt of that persecution.  Again you will notice there are no REAL Christians outside of the Church of God

In the past, real Christians were persecuted because they:
  • Kept Passover on the 14th
  • Refused to eat unclean meat
  • Would work on Sunday
  • Had false accusations railed against them
  • Were binitarian
  • Kept the Sabbath
  • Were not trinitarian
  • Taught that the pope was an Antichrist and precursor of the final Antichrist
  • Rejected papal authority
  • Did not accept idols
  • Had different teachings than the Church of Rome
  • Had writings Rome did not like
  • Rejected Roman sacraments
  • Objected to the dress of the Roman ministry
  • Considered Rome to be the prophecied Babylon
  • Taught that in the time of the final Antichrist that some would fall away
  • Had practices that Rome considered Jewish
  • Refused to baptize infants
  • Did not participate in carnal warfare
  • Teaching the Kingdom of God
  • Teaching the millennium
  • Baptized adults
In the future, according to Catholic teachings, they ALSO will be persecuted for:
  • Not accepting non-biblical teachings about Mary
  • Not accepting the Great Monarch (Beast, King of the North)
  • Teaching that the Kingdom of God will come soon
  • Not accepting the ‘Great Monarch’ (who appears to be the King of the North of Bible prophecy)
  • Not wearing crosses
  • Teaching after the Great Tribulation begins that Jesus will return within a few years
Christians have been persecuted for holding doctrines that we in the Continuing Church of God hold and are clearly expected to be persecuted in the future for holding Continuing Church of God doctrines.


Anonymous said...

Thiel is sick. Disgusting, vile and sick!

Joe Moeller said...

It does not matter what "creed" these victims are. It is a sad, sick and horrific outrage what has happened to them.

Instead of judging them, we should be praying, mourning, reflecting and HELPING victims to the best of our ability when tragedy hits anywhere in the world.

Our calling is not just for our own salvation, but so as to be a light to the world, and to demonstrate the love and mercy of Jesus Christ in real time.

Thiel is incredibly heartless and without mercy.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Sweetblood777 said...

This really raises the hair at the back of my head up. How cold and heartless. Yahweh is the One that opens a persons mind and that means that they are only responsible for what they know.

Where the hell is your light Bob?

You certainly are not showing any in this case. No where in scripture does it state that Yahweh is happy with the death of the 'wicked' in fact, it is the direct opposite.

Anonymous said...

AMEN Joe. I like you, brother.

The more I read Bob's trash the more I see the influence of what Herbert Armstrong taught as a religion.

He has no right or position to be calling himself a falsely-so-called "prophet" or to be leading ANYBODY.


Anonymous said...

Ignore all of those people being brutally murdered in their own homes for their beliefs.. in Bob's sheltered world, true martyrdom is when people make fun of your stupid videos on the Internet.

Anonymous said...

Remember that, according to Bob Thiel, even Rod Meredith isn't a real Christian. If he were, we would have to accuse Bob of persecuting him.

RSK said...

You see this same self-centered mentality in the COGs and elsewhere frequently...

I often think of Jesus' attributed phrase, "Let your light so shine before men" and wonder how so many of these guys forget the very next line - "...that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

Sorry, Bob, but your hilariously poor-quality videos, stammering sermons and waving hands do not equate with those who stare down death daily, no matter what pet doctrines you hold.

Sweetblood777 said...

Can someone provide a link to his original article?

I can't seem to locate it on COGWriter.

Head Usher said...

The problem is, Bob's literal reading of his holy book causes him to think that a black-and-white all-or-nothing, simplistic and unnuanced view MUST BE the one and only RIGHT view. The problem is, that type of black-and-white thinking has always been and will always be unrealistic and wrong. Thus, it causes Bob to assert many things which are truly stupid things to say, besides being odious.

It's that bronze-age thinking that he assumes is how the Big Man in the Sky thinks, which is biting him the ass again. It's the 21st century, Bob! Time to grow up and join the rest of the human race already! You know, the species that can think in terms of unknowns and grey areas? You don't have to act like such a Neaderthal!

Anonymous said...

For sweetblood777:

Byker Bob said...

Hey, Bob, does the phrase "I never knew you!" ring any bells?


Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Question: How many sermons did we hear growing up in the WCG about martyrdom and sermons quoting “Fox’s Book of Martyrs?”

Answer: Uh, OFTEN!!!

Question: How many from the Worldwide Church of God and its 700+ splinter groups have been martyred for Christ and “thine name’s sake” since God rose up the Philadelphian era 1934 through Herbert W. Armstrong?

Answer: Uh, NONE!!!

I rest my case.


Anonymous said...

Question: How many from the Worldwide Church of God and its 700+ splinter groups have been martyred for Christ and “thine name’s sake” since God rose up the Philadelphian era 1934 through Herbert W. Armstrong?

What about seven innocent Christians in Brookfield, Wisconsin, who were martyred by an insane Living Church of God member who brought a gun to services?

Anonymous said...

I ask Bob & all in the Acogs that think like him ie my church is the true church & we are true Xians & every other church & Xian is not... When did God make you the judge of who is in the Body of Christ & who has His Holy Spirit?!?! Don't you realize that you sound more & more each day like the RCC during the inquisition when they assumed the role of judging who was & wasn't a Xian & executed those they deemed lesser Xians?
If I were you I'd be careful not to judge (Lk 6:37) for you might find yourself one day judging & condemning His own people & you'll have to give an account one day for it to the true Judge (Jn 5:22).

DennisCDiehl said...

If one goes by the New Testament as opposed to that which is obsolete, the Pauline gentile view of Jesus versus the Jamesian view of the Jewish Jesus , Bob isn't a "real" Christian either. lol

Real Christians play football, wear crosses without feeling like they are going to hell and wear their hair as they wish because nature actually tells us not that it is a shame to wear long hair but that male lions look cool!

While no one has ever actually figured out what days, and times and seasons and years the writer of Colosians (not really Paul) had in mind, every Christian denomination has days and times and seasons and years they observe to tell their story, and it is ok. Humans need ritual and form to express their spirituality. It's just how it works Bob

Anonymous said...

While at AC (71-73) I heard many sermons on THE LAW and OBEDIENCE. I can't recall any dealing with the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5). Come to think of it, I hadn't seen much fruit of the Spirit among some of the leaders. Yet this "true minister" can say that he doesn't consider the Christians in Iraq as "real Christians"? Matt 7:22 "Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name . . ." Jesus will say to them, "Depart from me, I never knew you." To whom is Jesus most likely to make this comment to, WCG offshoot leaders or those killed in Iraq?

Byker Bob said...

I am wondering where Bob Thiel is obtaining the evidence to support his contentions that real Christians were martyred for keeping the list of Herbert W. Armstrong doctrines which he has presented. Certainly not from Eusebius, or the virtual litany of known historical figures in the early church in the first, second, and third centuries following the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. I'm not a fan of Thiel, or a regular reader of Cogwriter, but I can't recall from any of the excerpts presented here that he has ever been known to quote the men known collectively as the Antenicene Fathers. The only one the ACOG leaders normally quote would be Polycrates, seen as a preservationist of Jewish ways during the Quartrodecimen Controversy, which involved calendar issues.

One of the four main Jewish sects during the time of Jesus was the Essenes, from whom we have the oldest surviving confirming manuscripts of the Old Testament. This was a peculiar group of Jews, in that they were separatists, believing that Temple Judaism had become so corrupt that they could no longer participate in the daily and seasonal rituals. They withdrew to their community at Qumran, and considered themselves as God's elect. Jesus is recorded as having said much about the Pharisees and Sadducees, but nothing substantive regarding the Essenes or zealots. We learn more about these two groups from Josephus. The zealots, as they became known and were captured were generally executed by the Romans for treasonous activities or sedition. The Essenes lived quietly and peacefully amongst themselves.

Theil fails to consider the fact that anyone who did not believe in the Roman gods during that era was considered by the Romans to be an atheist, and was subject to persecution. As such, the Romans did not differentiate in their cruelty between Jews and Christians, or between sabbath keeping or Sunday keeping Christians. All were subject to persecution, especially the Jews. Sunday keeping Christians actually attempted to differentiate themselves from the Jews as a ploy to avoid persecution from the Roman government, but when one reads Eusebius and Ignatius, one realizes that this ploy was largely unsucccessful. The Sunday keepers were martyred right along side of the sabbath keeping ones in unimaginable ways. This continued unabated under various emperors until the reforms instituted by Constantine began to provide relief.

The vast majority of Christians martyred throughout history have been Sunday keepers. Theil is simply indulging in fantasy, not actual history, but more like the so-called "True History of the True Church" over which he already lost a huge debate on another site with Jared Olar.


Douglas Becker said...

"Oh Lord, I thank thee that I am not like non Christians who believe in Jesus, do good works in his name, suffer real persecution and die for righteousness sake as a martyr.

"Lord I thank thee that you have me holy and righteous with Olde Testament Bronze Age religion filled with physical rituals with no real spiritual meaning so I can be a prophet speaking in your name, slandering and libeling these awful people who were killed off because they are not like me as your privileged one with the Truth.

"Lord, continue to bless me with catastrophic world events that I can interpret as being confirmation that my predictions are coming true, giving me credibility so I can lord it over others and claim that I am right after all.

"And Lord thank you that I do not have to be involved with the fatherless, widow, the oppressed, the downtrodden, the abused, except to use them for my own aggrandizement in my own hubris.


Anonymous said...

Oh, here we go again with the "Who are real Christians?" thingy.

A "real" Christian is a person who identifies himself or herself as a Christian.

There are Christian assholes who say that a "real Christian" must believe that the Bible is the 'Word of God'.
It's nonsense to think that's what a "real Christian" needs to believe.

There are Christian assholes who say that a "real Christian" must believe that Jesus is literally God.
It's also nonsense to think that's what a person needs to believe to be a "real Christian".

Anonymous said...

NO2HWA said...

Thanks Anon 11:01

Anonymous said...

Oh the joys of multiculturalism! Blood in the streets.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Anonymous said, "What about seven innocent Christians in Brookfield, Wisconsin, who were martyred by an insane Living Church of God member who brought a gun to services?"

MY COMMENT - With all due respect, I don't think Terry Ratzmann's murder of 7 of his brethren qualifies as "martyrdom". It was murder yes, but martyrdom?


Byker Bob said...

My advice to Bob would be that he walk a mile (or fly a couple thousand) in some of these other Christians' shoes. Smuggle Bibles or some Herbie literature into North Korea. Do it personally, actually with feet on the ground in North Korea. Then try to leave the country, hoping and praying that you do not get caught and executed by the authorities! Do Christians do this? Yes. Apparently some sacrifice their lives to do exactly that.