Friday, January 3, 2014

Dennis reapplies for Ministry in The Deplored Church of God

 Having  been a pastor in WCG, I found the Apostle David C. Pack's MAT (Ministerial Aptitude Test) to be more than offensive and telling about just who Dave Pack thinks he is in all things God and Christ.  Reproduced here for entertainment purposes only.  Since Mr. Pack has retreated into the Castle after his miserable failure at discerning the intent of the Book of Haggai and who is who, we can only expect to hear from him again when he picks up where he left off with new and expansive elements of the Prophecy Concerning Dave Pack never before understood, though Dave at one point did assure all "God's word is crystal clear!"  Clear as mud evidently.
The world of Church of God watchers will not be kind to any man who sells his soul answering this ridiculous test for ministerial position in the Deplored Church of God. 
I thought I'd apply anyway and see how it goes........Can't let Dave disappear  totally after "the screw up."
Apostle Dave demands in  FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2013 

An Open Letter to All Splinter Ministers the following questions slowly, carefully and prayerfully. They are the biggest way that the ministry should “consider their ways.” Consider writing out the answers:
(1) Retirement—Mr. Armstrong taught that retirement is not an option for a true minister.
  • Did you retire? If so, when, and why did you think yourself an exception?
  • Retire?  What's that?  Can't retire on air.
(2) Non-Career—Mr. Armstrong taught that “going non-career” is not an option for a true minister.
  • Did you do this? If so, why did you think yourself an exception?
  • No, I was terminated when my congregation of 450 got wittled down by the Tkaches to 100.  HQ told me it was not cost effective to keep me.  I was done anyway but true to form stayed too long because I cared for the local congregation even though my heart was long past being in it.
(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition
  • In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—bespecific.)
  • Probably most
(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry?—or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)
  • During the liberal years of the 1970s?
  • There was no such thing as a safe sermon in the 70's.  I sat in the backseat of a Regional Director's car listening to the two guys in the front seat categorize all the ministers in the region into Pro HWA/Pro GTA or Contrary.  I heard a lot of things in the 70's.  I was in my naive and idealistic 20's.  Never before revealed:   As you know, I was the Regional Director in Chicago's assistant.  He asked me several times what I thought I of your coming back into the ministry in Chicago.  I said..."fine I guess."  
  • In the WCG in the late 1980s and early 90s?
  • I laid low in the 80's and 90's reading and beginning to regret I ever heard of the WCG
  • In your splinter or splinters?
  • I don't do splinters or slivers.  I was not interested in trading HWA/GTA/Tkach drama for Flurry, Pac..oops, Weinland and countless others drama
(5) On each doctrine where you came to agree with God’s enemies—either Joe Tkach, those who assisted his destruction or your splinter leader—why did you agree?
I don't recall who or what I agreed with much.  It was all kind of a blur.  I guess I agreed in part with God's enemies because I did not know they were the enemies of God and I agreed in part.  Generally in life I tend to find myself agreeing with those I agree with and would not tend to think of them as enemies of God at the time.  Is that strange?
(6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?
I shouldn't but am just messing with ya...
  • Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?
  • Actually they shouldn't.  I am not trust able and would probably spend way too much time recommending they read outside the box etc.  
  • Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters?
  • No and no....
(7) Did you actively pursue where God’s Truth, Church, Work, College and Government were found?
Oh yes sir!  Once... but I simply could not find the energy to leap and jump all over split, splinter, schism and sliverdom.  
  • If not, why not? Be specific.
  • I could not keep my anxiety under control and when I got depressed, HQ made fun of me and attributed other motives to my sadness and anxiety.
  • If so, how hard? Be specific.
  • Not hard at all....I feel funny saying that.  Could you reword that?
(8) Have you read or viewed any of our Splinter Explanation Packet material?
No, I don't do packets or booklets anymore.  I do courses and books at reputable institutions and from credible authors with actual credentials to inform me.
  • What items? Ÿ Did you at any time hear my “30 Reasons” sermons of 1993 and 1994? (Parts 1, 2 or 3?)
  • No, I hate numbered sermons.  12 Ways to Have a Happy Marriage, to me, were what you heard just before divorce.
(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization?
Pfffft.....No, of course not.  I think Jesus , got blindsided by God not intervening for him to route the Romans and when he said, "My God, My God..why hast thou forsaken me?"  he wasn't kidding.  Not sure he had one unified organization in mind but that's an oxymoron anyway.  The early NT church was hardly one unified organization.  Did you ever go to Bible school?
(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?
Tyrannical, silly  and addled.
(11) Have you returned to believing that Mr. Armstrong was the final “Elijah”?—and Zerubbabel?
Returned?  I never believed it to begin with.  I thought, "well that's nice if that's what he wants to believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone."  It was kinda like the sermon I heard HWA give on Satan and those darn trees where he said dinosaurs , of Satan's world of course, could not reproduce as neither could Satan.  Same week I saw the dino egg edition of National Geographic on his waiting room table.  I just figured he was out of touch and would catch up someday. 
(12) Have you returned to believing that truth only enters the Church through apostles as Mr. Armstrong said so often?
Returned? Not really.  That concept always bothered me from the start.  Truth only from apostles tends to be fluid and subject to change depending on the need and pressure put on the Apostles to grow up. 
(13) Do you believe I Corinthians 12:18 applies to you with no qualifications added?
Hold on.  Let me go find my Bible., no.  I think Paul wrote that to keep everyone in place as he saw fit with himself obviously, called from the womb as he noted, on top.  I have never seen a Church of God 'fitly framed" and if this is God's idea of "all one body we...", well......never mind. 
(14) Do you believe there can be exceptions to I Corinthians 1:10 and 13—regarding members or ministers in the Church?
Oh for Pete's sake...sorry.   Yes of course. I have never in my life nor has any Church history seen any three people all agree and speak the same thing.  That's robot talk!   In my view, Paul meant,  "We must all speak the same thing as I speak it."  I get the same feeling with why you seem to like this scripture.  Anyway, it's not possible in reality.  
(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?
No.  I was a very important minister with overarching and incredible responsibilities.  I grew churches larger and faster than all before me and dazzled with sermons before thousands.  I can't go backwards. didn't handle that all that well either as I recall.
(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you re qualify?
Absolutely...thank you sir!
(17) Are you familiar with the new teachings that God has added to His Church on top of what Mr. Armstrong taught?
Wait!  On top of???????  New Teachings??????  WTF...oh sorry.  Evidently not!  
  • Which ones?—and do you agree?
  • None probably
(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true ministry?
Oh it's valid alright!  Signed by HWA, GTA and David Antion.  It's locked in decoupage lacquer forever!  I don't do retraining very well.  I doubt I'd do "training" of any kind in religion well at the moment.  Do you retrain well?
(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:
  • Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
  • I hope to tell ya!
  • What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
  • Of course
  • What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
  • You're making this shit up aren't you?
  • Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
  • If it hurts others , is stupid or dangerous
  • Where you disagree doctrinally?
  • Duh...I'd not do well teaching something I thought was BS
(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):
  • Weak
  • 10
  • Cowardly
  • 30
  • Slothful
  • 20
  • Covetous
  • 45 I believe in simple living and leaving a small footprint
  • Confused
  • 0  Very...the whole WCG experienced confused naive and idealistic me
  • Compromising
  • 12 but at times no doubt when sorting things out
  • Foolish
  • 0  Oh man yeah!   Is this just confined to Church stuff?  
  • Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
  • 100   I ran FROM splinters and I still don't vote much on anything
  • Heretical
  • 0  I guess it's my nature
  • Deceitful
  • Ehhh....depends on the topic I suppose.  3 depending.  But I am still not a fan of Jeremiah 17:9 as totally the way folk are.
  • Easily deceived
  • 0 Evidently going back to age 14
  • Betrayed your calling
  • 100  Not any more....
(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?
I actually gained in my ability to discern good from evil as the COGs rose from the ashes. 
(22)    What do you consider your ministerial rank to be?  Evangelist, Ÿ Pastor, Ÿ Preaching Elder, Ÿ Local Elder ,Ÿ Local Church Elder, Ÿ “Elder” Ÿ Ministerial Assistant
HUMAN not in need of ministerial rank.  It was confusing enough to be a Local Elder in 1973, a Preaching Elder in 1974 and then going on to pastor 14 churches in 5 states but getting stuck at PE.  Strange to me  but in 1972 I was told by someone who was on the manpower thingy that after my name came up, "for you Dennis, the sky is the limit."  I thought that a strange comment even at 22 years old.  At any rate, there were low clouds for me mostly after 1975.  I knew I was in rank trouble when GTA hauled me up to his office one fine day to ask "why do you hate me?"   He had screamed his head off in a sermon at someone in the audience at church to leave if they didn't like it here and low and behold...Monday..I found out to my shock, it was ME he was yelling at in the audience.  LOL   In hind site I think he may have been nervous I was dating the same girls he was. Ÿ 
(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?
If it stops you I will if you will
(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?
Fruits of a true Apostle is a dicey concept.  Is the kind, compassionate and educated current Pope a true Apostle?  Do you mean Apostle by the numbers so called?    I think NO here. 
  • If you say yes, why did you follow Joe Tkach until he destroyed everything?
  • It was a fascinating study in stupid.  I couldn't help it for a time. 
(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)
 I am hopeful I am some form of consciousness stuck in a limited 5 sensed carbon based wetsuit, but I am not sure as how can one prove such a thing.  98.6
(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)
Trust no Elijahs
Trust no Chicago thugs
Trust no Witnesses
Trust no Zerrubabels
Trust no Joshuas
(27) How many times did you fast for 24 hours (or more) before answering these questions?
None.  Just had breakfast
(28) How many times have you prayed over Psalm 51 on your knees?
None..I burned out on doing that long ago.
(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave, how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?
I would answer all these questions in ways that I know would please you.  I would be all things to all men that by any means I could get back into a paying ministerial position and maybe a car.  I would beg you to believe what you need to believe about me.  I'd sell my soul to the devil.  To the Apostle , I'd kiss the apostle's ring.  To the Board of Agreers, I'd tell funny stories and say  "yes, sure fine whatever you want," to them .  
(30) What have been your pastoral actions during the troubles of recent weeks and months?
I write a bit about it....
(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learn new?
Hell no!  Are you willing to spend a full year or more reading some books on theology, Bible difficulties and history I'd have for you?   I think not!
(32) What personal responsibility do you feel for the deplorable condition into which God’s people have sunk?
None.  I have left that to the ministry and yourself
(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led?—or were ever Spirit-led?
I can't.  I probably was good intention lead but not ever "spirit-led"  If any of this was spirit led, I'd like to have a chat with Jesus.
(34) What date did you leave the WCG, and why did you remain beyond May 1995, if this is the case?
Sometime in '98.   I won the Biblical Archaeology Magazine essay contest on "We have the money. Why should we send you to dig in Israel?"  I got HQ to give me a few bucks for the trip and the month digging at Megiddo and didn't want to give up the trip  and experience of my lifetime which was free.  Depression was at it's greatest from 90 to 98 which was then replaced by anxiety from '99 + depending.  I was a paramedic for that time as a "hobby" but screwed up and had to keep moving. 
(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?
Threw up....
In due course, you will be asked to fill out a questionnaire that looks very similar to this list.
Are there hidden and more difficult questions you won't publish now?
*No answers that are blank“I’m not sure” or short responses will then be permitted.
Now you sound like the SAT proctor
*All wives should answer the questions, including every point applicable. (Some are obviously to be skipped.)
Don't tell me who should do what.....
*Aware of recent history, and the lies and deceit of so many men and leaders, DO NOT LIE TO YOURSELF!
Oh come lied to everyone about yourself and Mr. Haggai.  I can lie to myself if needed 
*You are encouraged not to discuss or in any way share your answers with anyone other than God and your spouse.
Head slap....They why did I just share them with YOU!  God already knew the answers before I wrote them and I am single.  Can I share with my Shih Tzu?   
Anyway....I do hope you will consider me for a high position in the Deployed Church of God.  I have been in therapeutic massage for 15 years now and it would be nice not to have to physically work in a low light room with soft relaxing music and really nice folk who are exhausted , stressed or hurting.  Standing eight hours a day with 6-7 clients ten minutes apart with only my thoughts is tough. I want to wear a suit again, drive a nice car, have a restaurant expense account as long as I say the world "church" during the meal and respect from those who merely pray , obey, pay and stay.  I am tired of reading books as they take time and effort and switching back to booklets written by just two or three who know is much easier.  Most of all I miss sitting in a coma for Ministerial Refresher Programs.   The luncheons were good however. 
Let me know soon!  I'd be happy to drive to Wadsworth to chat and answer any questions you might have....


Allen C. Dexter said...

Loved it! I hope he reads it.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...


I enjoyed reading your very honest and entertaining answers, but was this really a real questionnaire from Mr. Pack? I am having difficulty believing it is real given how absurd some of the questions are.


Michael said...

Pack's list of ministerial qualifications is such a joke nobody could possible be serious about them (except Pack, perhaps?)
I especially like: "(Include all areas — be specific)"
What is he, some university professor making a freshman-level test?
Oh the poor, poor souls who actually fill in that form in all seriousness.

DennisCDiehl said...

Hi Richard. Yes, absolutely. This is Dave Pack's "Open Letter to Splinter Ministers" Announcement #22, July 13, 2013

He was dead serious

DennisCDiehl said...

Of course, after August 30, 2013 he redacted the text and eliminated the more riduculous ones that were then made moot by the failure of it all.

I made copies of the originals before the end date anticipating he'd do this.

Byker Bob said...

Certainly gives us insights into the man's sickness.

If Jesse Jackson reads here, Pack probably reminds him of some of the people responsible for subjugating the slaves.

Were it not for the fact that it would denigrate the original apostles, I'd say Davie's management style looks like what we might call apostle-possession.


Anonymous said...

Can I nominate another name for the RCG?
How about the "Resnored Church of God"?

(Because, the tactics Davey uses are so old. I've seen them so many times, and from such a plethora of Christian church leaders - not only the COG's - that there seems to be a DNA component or virus component to it.)

Anyway, those tactics are so 'old hat' that they practically make me snore...

Simply put, it's like a lullaby that wants devotion , adoration, and money.

James said...

The guy is a control freak. I couldn't imagine working for a tyrant like him.

Joe Moeller said...

It is actually surprising that Pack did not require a urine test, a lie detector polygraph and a shot of "truth serum" as being necessary prerequisites for hiring on his employment form!

Joe Moeller

Byker Bob said...

Joe, I have often thought and stated, and this was based on observing my parents, certain people in our local congregation, people in the AC environment, and even some in other, similar cults, that religion as advocated and taught by some, can become just as much a drug as the various natural and chemical substances one can ingest. Unfortunately, the users of this particular drug will nearly always produce a clean urine test.

Most if the time, we associate the collection of street pharmaceuticals known as "drugs" with the liberals, and as being promoted by the liberals. This means that conservatives will most often obtain their own brand of mind alteration from other sources. In cases of addiction, normally we can identify harmful behavioral patterns that affect the addict's family and friends, those who become his codependents. An addict does not act and react according to the generally accepted standards of goodness which normally set the tone for civilized society. He or she will often do such things as abuse their children and shut out family members, fail to help others in need, waste all available money, and take a fatalistic view of future. These are widely considered to be destructive fruits, and are generally listed amongst the top reasons for recovery.

Extremists, such as Pack, Flurry, Weinland, and others produce many of the same horrible fruits as does dependency on substances. Unfortunately, this places them and their followers in the same class as some poor, debilitated hype leading a meaningless life on the streets. Anyone who practices the items on this list of Pack's might get to wear nice clothes, carry a briefcase, and drive a nice car. But, like the addict, his mind would be pretty much shot.


Joe Moeller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.