I reached out to an RCG source to get their take on Dave Pack's latest escapade.
They feel that Dave is doubling down on what he has taught. He has released so much information that even his own members are confused a times. If they are confused then Church of God members who are not part of RCG are doubly confused. It is vital to Dave that COG members understand what he has been preaching. It is important to him that his message be made clear to them so that they can either accept or reject it. If they reject it then they will be held accountable for that mistake by his god.
Dave feels that his message is similar to the "warning Israel" message that Herbert Armstrong proclaimed in the past, but is now to a new audience, "wayward COG members." Dave seems to think this is the "last step" till Christ returns to Wadsworth and confirms everything he has been teaching. COG members know how much Dave has deviated from what Herbert Armstrong taught. It is going to be a monument task for Dave to reconcile all of his previous messages to fit his current "understanding." Every time Dave preaches or writes and article it deviates from last teachings.
One interesting thing was pointed out by the source about Dave and RCG members. Now that Dave has sold his home in a public neighborhood and built himself a new home on the compound, he has further isolated himself from reality. The source questions if Dave was really trying to draw in COG members, but acknowledges that some RCG members may actually believe that is what Dave is attempting to do, but that and they truly do not understand what others outside their group actually think of Dave's message. RCG members have isolated themselves so well that they only listen to what Dave and HQ has to say. The source had this to say about RCG members perception of those outside the group:
"The thought inside is that people are "watching closely" and "really intrigued" because "their splinters aren't doing or producing as much."As has been pointed out here countless times in the past, there is no other Church of God on the entire planet that is as knowledgeable and God driven than the Restored Church of God. No other Church of God has the depth of understanding that Dave and his church has. The Philadelphia Church of God, Living Church of God, United Church of God, COGWA and also Bob Thiel and James Malm are incapable of being used by God to gather the church together before the end times.
While the source did not mention this part; I have a sinking feeling that we will see something horrendous happen with RCG members at some point in the future. Dave is a troubled man that has the potential to be deadly. Those now outside the group are devastated at what they see happening to family members inside. It truly is frightening to see how these everyday church folk, that some of us may know, have let themselves be taken over by Dave's subtle brainwashing.
76 comments:
I have read through and seen the "logic" behind the answers Dave provides in his 134 questions about whatever he thinks up. Dave drives the scriptures and the subtle differences he sees in , say the Gospel accounts , towards his already preconceived ideas and answers. He truly makes scriptures mean what they never meant and never could mean in reality and historically. Dave knows nothing about Gospel contradictions , editing, or even the correct order in which to read them. Any number of his "questions" have completely fine theological and historical answers but he can have none of it , first of all because he is not trained in it and secondly it doesn't fit the story and tale he is weaving in his head about end time speculations.
I also have a fear for what is coming with RCG, member, minister and for Dave. I think he needs help but Dave takes no help, works for no one and listens to no one as far as I can tell and see. His 16 council rubber stampers had better wake up and speak up to what they can't be blind and oblivious to. If not now, then the time will come where they wish they had.
Dave is a psychotic break waiting to happen and it will be rooted in his fixed religious delusions which he has fine tuned into one baseless, going nowhere theological fairy tale. It is sad, but it's not like RCG members have not had a warning as to the potential for things to turn ugly quickly. Relying on one man, who doesn't know, teach or practice the safety there is in "a multitude of counsel" is about as mentally, emotionally and spiritually dangerous as it gets.
Those poor people had better start asking themselves and even God, how is DCP actually serving the flock or God? All that energy has gone into 'convincing others' rather than getting to somewhere. If the great work was working, there would be no need for propaganda, right?
Does God need to be convinced of this by you, or is it DCP who needs his convincing to be done through you, so he can end up being who he wants to be while he continues to sit and wait by the side of the road?
He is still waiting there for you to be his 'donkey ride'!
DBP
I found this one!
Can local a spy get a picture of his new mansion?
When I was still attending RCG, Pack told the brethren that "you had to stay even if you didn't understand the new teaching." Amazing, who stays where you don't understand what is being taught? Not even to mention, it is a total doctrinal change from everything that those in the COG's have been taught. At least until now, "Elijah" has revealed new secret, hidden in the scriptures, knowledge!
Moving to a new house in his compound, must be a safety issue. Many people took out mortgages on their homes, gave the money to Dave who assured them that time is so short, that they will not be required to repay the loans. Once these members begin to lose their homes, they are going to be very dangerous to Dave.
The "proper" zealous attitude in the misnamed churches of God has always been one of world weariness accompanied by an intense awareness that time is very short. Can we all realize how difficult this is to maintain in the face of "delayed" fulfillment of prophecies originally intended by its interpreters for the people of two and three generations ago?
Clearly, observation of the sabbath and holy days (plus, ahem! tithing) has not given a collection of teachers and their followers any better understanding of prophecy than that experienced by Sunday keeping, Christmas and Easter observing, pork-eating participants in free will charity. As the prophecies continue to fail, the association with the "correct" doctrines, and the adherence to the strictness of ministerial authority becomes less and less credible, and more and more difficult to maintain. This is why the ACOGs are failing to grow, and are actually losing members.
In an attempt to counter these trends, some of the Armstrong cults are in watch and wait mode, while others attempt to manufacture an increased sense of urgency by claiming newer and deeper understanding, and by requiring a stronger level of commitment (common; the shunning of "Laodiceans") from the members. The entire concept of prophet as holder of the conch has lost its credibility decades ago, meaning that one can either abandon that model in search of a new one, or raise the level of histrionics to deflect members' attention from the obvious and continued failure.
Logic would seem to indicate that fervor in the face of continued failure is very difficult to maintain. More existential threats (which actually are real) have emerged in the years since the bomb, and most citizens of planet Earth have responded with either disbelief, or a so what attitude, and do very little to modify their lifestyles. The only way the Armstrong message might have been effective would have been if the original prophecy schedule had been maintained and fulfilled at the heyday of the visibility of movement. At this point in time, all of that only matters to a very small and diminishing circle of friends. One can continue flogging the mule, but "the work" is over, if indeed it was ever other than imaginary in the first place.
BB
"Can local a spy get a picture of his new mansion?"
Unless you're an insider, you'd need a drone to do it.
Ronco
With over a million words uttered in this prophecy. Why don't Dave just re-write the Bible. He's already on a roll, besides, apparently everyone in RCG believes every word he says, even if he forgets what he preached last week. And he loves to write books, this could be his greatest re-write ever!
The entire concept of prophet as holder of the conch has lost its credibility decades ago, meaning that one can either abandon that model in search of a new one, or raise the level of histrionics to deflect members' attention from the obvious and continued failure.
BB- Dave has Histrionic Personality Disorder. This describes him, always needing to come up with something new to continually excite and distract his remaining loyal followers.
Dave might forget what he preached last week. But, he never forgets where the money is supposed to go.
I don't know Dave Pack. To my knowledge, I have never even seen him. He imagines himself as some great chosen one just as all the rest of them do. It's an illusion of grandeur and what is surprising is that it takes so long for some people to wake up and smell the roses. It took me about twenty years of fanatic involvement and then decades of re-education, and that was a painful, confusing process. However, it's been worth it.
Science is real. History is real. All religions are fantasies.
Allen C. Dexter
I understand Pack is crazy. I can't get over why the supposed "ministers" continue to support him. Or could it be the power and money they crave may go away too, if he is exposed for what he is.
Besides they obey his every word. It won't be long before they will be standing up and saying that Dave is Christ, as soon as Dave tells them it is time. After all, Christ is now supposedly returning in human form again, before the tribulation. Maybe, He is too busy and Dave will need to fill in. He (Pack) did say in earlier messages that he would be the one to enter the third Temple and speak with Christ directly. But that was around message 10, in the now around 50, in the series. It may have changed by now.
David Pack says that you need to “anoint your eyes” with his crazy glue until they are sealed tightly shut. Then he robs you blind!
“They feel that Dave is doubling down on what he has taught.”
It is the unwise RCG members who recklessly bet on Dave's wrong prophetic guesses who have “doubled down” on their bad bet by sending in everything until they are now “all in” and about to LOSE IT ALL.
"The thought inside is that people are 'watching closely' and 'really intrigued' because 'their splinters aren't doing or producing as much.'"
The thought outside of the RCG is that those inside the RCG have been seriously deceived and robbed by one of the worst false prophets around. Those outside of the RCG are shocked by the massive number of perverse doctrinal changes taking place inside the RCG. Those outside of the RCG are so intrigued and horrified because DCP and his RCG are a real-life case of a raging false prophet chewing up former WCG members and spitting them out.
“Every time Dave preaches or writes and article it deviates from last teachings.”
Welcome to the ever-changing cult world of Dave the deviate.
Note to United States Government:
If this gets worse, do not, repeat, do NOT, allow a United States Congressman to go and investigate.
Send in a full fledged S.W.A.T. team, preferably Delta Force.
I see Dave Pack as a seriously delusional mental case who just uses the religious beliefs he's grown familiar with as a cover. He clearly is as self-centered as HWA was. Perhaps Pack doesn't quite make the claims the guy featured in this documentary film does, but the end result in both cases I fear will be highly destructive to their followers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xf2Hdxo6o
“Dave feels that his message is similar to the 'warning Israel' message that Herbert Armstrong proclaimed in the past, but is now to a new audience, 'wayward COG members.'”
David Pack appears to be copying more of Gerald Flurry's dirty tricks.
Recall that Gerald Flurry wrote in his plagiarized and revised Malachi's Mess. “little book” that HWA had already preached the gospel of the kingdom of God to all nations, as if it were a commission to HWA only, but that with a new church era comes a new commission to the church to warn the Laodiceans. Thus did Gerald Flurry quickly do away with preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God and replace it with a nasty new teaching that was truly “no gospel (“good news”) at all.” Astonishingly, Flurry did this from the start, while claiming to be holding faithfully to everything that HWA had taught--unlike other people who were just tinkering around the edges by supposedly changing various relatively teeny, tiny, picky, little things.
Herbert W. Armstrong had taught that the very purpose of the church was to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God for a witness to all nations. Jesus' original twelve apostles had been given this “Great Commission” but had encountered early opposition, and it had not been preached in a powerful way for 1900 years until HWA showed up and was given an “open door” to preach it just before the end of the age. The apostle Paul was “astonished” that some were already preaching “a different gospel” which was “really no gospel (“good news”) at all,” and that people so quickly deserted what they had been taught. The apostle Paul put a double curse on anyone who would preach any other gospel than what had been preached. Hopefully this double curse will now visit Gerald and Dave.
HWA even had to teach what the gospel is, because most people do not know even that much. (The gospel is the good news of the coming kingdom of God to rule over the whole earth.) People hear “singers” like Johnny Cash (who was in it for the cash) whining away about Sunday morning sidewalks until everyone is depressed, and call that sort of noise “gospel music.” People point to the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and call them “the four gospels,” as if the gospel is the story of Jesus' earthly ministry. One guy even said that the four accounts make one wonder which is the correct one!
Rebellious Roderick Meredith--always in a losing competition with HWA--came up with a hybrid gospel idea that he called a “doctrinal upgrade.” RCM said that Protestants miss half of the gospel by focusing on Christ dying for our sins, while knowing nothing about the coming kingdom of God part of the gospel. So, RCM added the Protestant part about Christ dying for our sins to HWA's part about the coming kingdom of God. RCM then got Douglas Winnail to mention in a sermon, “the gospel of the kingdom of God--the gospel that Jesus came to die for our sins.”
Amazingly, the United Church's motto was the closest to what HWA had taught: “Preaching the gospel. Preparing a people.” Maybe someone in the UCG had actually read HWA's last book called Mystery of the Ages instead of just illegally reproducing it and editing it like Gerald had done.
Continued below...
...continued from above
When Gerald Flurry talked about “warning the Laodiceans,” it really meant slandering them, and calling them bad names like “evil Laodiceans,” and trying to socially ostracize them for not following a false prophet like himself and his “flood” of “new revelation.” The ones who really need to be warned about their own vile behavior are the PCG members. Instead of obeying God's command to honor their parents, PCG members cut off all contact with parents, grandparents, children, and grandchildren who did not listen to That False Prophet that they themselves had been deceived by. Instead of caring about their own relatives, PCG members deny the true faith and behave worse than unbelievers by cutting off all contact with them just because they did not listen to The Lawbreaker who teaches the exact, diametrical opposite of what the Bible does. Instead of shunning immorality and evil behavior, PCG members shun their own families, relatives, and friends outside of the PCG, while socializing with filthy old sex perverts inside the PCG like Beer in the Flesh taught them to.
Now that David Pack is talking about “warning wayward COG members” one can expect him to do some very nasty things to his RCG members to teach a lesson to those who did not follow a greedy, raging, false prophet like himself. Dave seems to like money. He has already demanded that all his followers send him their houses, possessions, retirement plans, and savings--“or no salvation if you don't.” Now, maybe Dave could hold the RCG members hostage and demand a ransom from their families, relatives, and friends outside of the RCG. Maybe Dave's Prince Money Seminar guy from Nigeria could assist him with this. Then Dave's wonderfully fudged statistics about the increased income could “prove” that he runs the one true cult, since money is everything to Dave.
The example set by Gerald Flurry, and being followed by David Pack, is to “warn” outsiders by torturing their family members, relatives, and friends who are trapped inside their satanic imposter cults. This abuse of the insiders will supposedly teach the outsiders something. Hopefully everyone is paying careful attention and learning some important lessons about what these raging false prophets and their satanic imposter cults are really like. Nobody is as spiritually drunk as Gerald. Nobody is as spiritually wayward as Dave.
The other week what appeared to be Dave crossing the line now seems like the tip of the iceberg.
With that well-worn jigsaw puzzle analogy, the biblical pieces have been scrambled again and a new picture is taking shape. If he hadn't thrown the box away, he'd know what it was supposed to look like...
3.49 PM The teaching that the gospel is the coming government of God is incorrect. This is simply the doctrine of the Nicolaitans (i.e., tyranny. The word itself means dominate) projected into the bible. Or as Herbie, frequently expressed it, 'government is everything.'
Why did Christ tell His generation 'repent for the kingdom is at hand,' if this this coming government is one thousand years in the future? It would make no difference if they repented or not.
The gospel must be that people can qualify for eternal life. It's common sense. This is one of the things Malm from Shining Light has right.
Anonymous on October 29, 2016 at 5:33 PM said...
“3.49 PM The teaching that the gospel is the coming government of God is incorrect. This is simply the doctrine of the Nicolaitans (i.e., tyranny. The word itself means dominate) projected into the bible. Or as Herbie, frequently expressed it, 'government is everything.'
Why did Christ tell His generation 'repent for the kingdom is at hand,' if this this coming government is one thousand years in the future? It would make no difference if they repented or not.
The gospel must be that people can qualify for eternal life. It's common sense. This is one of the things Malm from Shining Light has right.”
Expect the apostle Paul's double curse to come upon James Malm for shining more blight on this subject too, on top of all his other errors. Also expect a curse to come upon Malm's followers for mindlessly going along with Malm's rebellion and confusion instead of thinking for themselves.
God created everything and everyone, and therefore He gets to rule over everything and everyone. Why would anyone not want God to come and rule over the whole earth for the good of all, and to put a stop to all the horrible evils of today?
“After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God” (Luke 8:1-3, NIV).
Jesus taught his followers, “This, then, is how you should pray: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven'” (Matthew 5:9-10, NIV).
“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:40-42, NIV).
“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me” (Luke 19:27, NIV).
anon noted: "
“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me” (Luke 19:27, NIV)."
Not one of the sweet Jesus scriptures ever quoted in any sermon I ever heard . While the King is the King in the parable, one can't miss the implication. Especially since in the next verses we have Jesus sending his disciples out to prepare for his entry into Jerusalem as a King.
(SIDE NOTE, and "Of interest" lol
At least in this version of the entry, Luke corrects Matthew in having Jesus ride in on just ONE young cold, the foal of an ass. Matthew screws up the account by thinking the Old Testament scripture he cobbled the story from was speaking of two animals which he included in his story. Luke caught the blunder and corrected it.
The Ass and the Colt
Matthew 21 vs.1-7
1 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, 2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, AND a colt with her: loose THEM, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of THEM; and straightway he will send THEM. 4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, AND a colt the foal of an ass. 6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. "
(Kind of like a circus act?)
The original meaning in Zechariah 9:9 was just one animal, a colt, the foal of an ass. Matthew thought it was two animals. This one story shows that no Matthew was an eyewitness to anything of the kind but took the story from the OT and messed it up to be corrected later by Luke who didn't misunderstand Zechariah 9:9
Zechariah 9:9 New International Version (NIV)
The Coming of Zion’s King
9 Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion!
Shout, Daughter Jerusalem!
See, your king comes to you,
righteous and victorious,
lowly and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
New International Version (NIV)
8.03PM how do you know that those who read Malms blog don't think for themselves? Like many, I red his post on this topic, considered the bible verses, and concluded (by thinking) that his point of view is correct.
The only verse you quoted with 'gospel' in it is Luke 8.1-3. You are only assuming it means government. I believe the quoted 'kingdom of God' means salvation ie., immortality for all humanity.
Try reading these scriptures through your own eyes, rather than through the eyes of Herbie the tyrant paradigm. And you didn't address my question of why Christ told his generation to repent ('the kingdom is at hand') if your kingdom means government.
Do you frequently accuse those who disagrees with you of not thinking for themselves?
That's not even a decent thing to do. Never mind godly or biblical. Taking out a loan you have no intention of repaying because you hope on the plan to do a 'midnight flit' I have find it difficult to have any sympathy for anyone who has done that. Two wrongs don't make a right.
What is dave packs new truth ? I'm confused and carnt keep up with the superfabulous new truth production line. Is it the one about a Church leader being the false prophet ?
Kingdom of God/Heaven
In case it hasn't already been mentioned, the words God, Lord, HaShem, Adonai, Eternal are circumlocutions, or evasive synonyms for God's real name.
In the same way, Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are substitutes for Messiah. So, in an evasive way, The Kingdom of God is at hand means The Messiah is here.
HWA always made a big issue over the pagan origins of holidays. Were the Holy Days of Lev 23 and other practices, such as circumcision, derived from pagan origins? The Jews were not the first people to have a temple, priests, sacrifices, rituals and special days. Didn't God take some of these pagan practices that the people were familiar with and attach new meaning to them? If so, then what difference does it make if Halloween, Christmas, etc. have pagan origins.
Anon 2:56
Pack's new truth is the "first Dominion". In other words, the Kingdom/ Millennium happens before the Tribulation. And those in RCG now, will rule from Jerusalem in human form, along with Christ, also in human form/ not yet in glory ruling with a rod of iron.
The Tribulation will then come because mankind, as always, will again reject God's way, and bring on the ultimate punishment to themselves.
I wonder what Pack's ministers preached at the Feast? Now that with all this new knowledge, all of the canned Feast messages of the past no longer fit with the new teachings of Pack.
Steve D said...
HWA always made a big issue over the pagan origins of holidays. Were the Holy Days of Lev 23 and other practices, such as circumcision, derived from pagan origins? The Jews were not the first people to have a temple, priests, sacrifices, rituals and special days. Didn't God take some of these pagan practices that the people were familiar with and attach new meaning to them? If so, then what difference does it make if Halloween, Christmas, etc. have pagan origins."
Exactly right Steve. Even the concept of the Sabbath comes from the ancient Sumerian Creation tale where it was the gods who kept the Sabbath and drown the humans worker bees who were disturbing it for them. The Hebrew Bible is a twist on that tale and others.
Nothing springs from a vacuum, (well except maybe electrons :)
except that the Sabbath existed long before the Sumerians....so you can't say that it was their idea...
Hoss, Christ didn't say 'Christ is here,' He said 'REPENT for the kingdom of God is at hand.' If the kingdom is only government, what difference would it make if they repented then, or thousands of years in the future, when resurrected. Christ must be saying, start qualifying for eternal life.
That government is the core of a kingdom, is projecting today's big government into the bible. In Christs time, Roman taxes for it's citizens amounted to two days wages per year, per person.
Up until HWA splintered from COG-7, the emphasis of evangelism was not on one person, or personality. Today, amongst the splinters, the most flagrant cases of pastoral abuse seem to be coming from the groups in which the leader makes prophecy all about one person, or about himself. Dave Pack does this probably more than anyone else within Armstrongism. Rod Meredith invokes the old "third in charge" routine. Gerald Flurry indulges in herbolatry, while calling himself "that prophet". UCG and the COGawa, for now, rely on the council or collective as COG-7 once did.
If one believes that the New Covenant is simply the Old with a Messiah added, and with all of the old cultural and physical ritualistic practices of the Old Testament still in force, the fruits or end results of that teaching appear to be less toxic and more humane in settings where it is taught within a multitude of counsel, as opposed to by and for the benefit of one megalomaniacal figure who makes it all about himself.
There is just so much going on around the globe right now that doesn't fit the Armstrong prophecy mold. I mean, not even. These are times in which if you try to make yourself the "Elvis" of Armstrongism, you are guaranteed to make an absolute fool of yourself. What I cannot understand is why that would not bother some people. Where is it written that you must give your leaders a free pass as they make their prophecies, even on specific timelines, and these all fail?
Does keeping and teaching "the test commandment" compensate for false prophecy, excusing the false prophets from their penalty?
BB
Anonymous said...
With over a million words uttered in this prophecy. Why don't Dave just re-write the Bible. He's already on a roll, besides, apparently everyone in RCG believes every word he says, even if he forgets what he preached last week. And he loves to write books, this could be his greatest re-write ever!"
Don't kid yourself - most people don't believe that nonsense. People are staying because they're hoping Dave will come to his senses, or that the Council of Elders will correct Dave (they can't because Dave won't listen to correction - that's why so many ministers have left or have been fired!)
Some of the brethren are afraid of leaving 'the body of Christ' because he had said we won't be healed or won't have God's blessings. Fear tactics all.
Go to www.bibleorigins.net, 8:06. Scroll down to "Sabbath Origins....".
Interesting paper.
Christ didn't say 'Christ is here,'
That's the whole idea of being evasive. 'Government' is an interpretation.
To continue on the Kingdom theme, I suppose the names like The World Tomorrow, Tomorrow’s World, etc, are themselves evasive (and more marketable) renderings of The Kingdom of God. If so, Dave Pack was right in his choice, the Hebrew name for the Messianic Age is, in English, The World to Come.
Since we’re into the Hebrew - it has a much smaller vocabulary than English, making the exact meaning of a word more context-dependent. The Hebrew word olam means, most often, forever. The same word, olam, is used in “statute forever” (holy days, etc), “eternal priesthood” (of Aaron), and “eternal life”. I’ll leave that with no comment.
"except that the Sabbath existed long before the Sumerians....so you can't say that it was their idea..."
Only if one automatically assumes the Bible's text as being both the original and inerrant record of events.
Answer to the question in regards to what was heard at the 2016 Feast sites in RCG, I understand they listened to last year's messages on CDs. I don't think any of the men in charge of the sites for RCG could have carried on with the nonsense that he has been teaching recently. However, there is a rumor that the Sunday evening service was another one of his long 2 hour sermons #46 or ?? He is still after money in order to complete his compound in Wadsworth. The integrity and character of any minister that has left or was fired because of disagreement with the recent teachings, has been vilified.
RCG is now opening its doors to all that are interested in attending and once they do, will be required to pay "COMMON" to secure their salvation, in other words, buy it! Is there another religious organization that sells salvation???
The RCG will never be anything more than a fanclub of "Hey everybody, come look and see what God is doing through Dave!" trip. He's like a crazed Tony Robbins, he can't stop self-promoting himself! It will be just one more info-mercial after another for all eternity!
all-about-me-24/7
Anonymous said...
Don't kid yourself - most people don't believe that nonsense. People are staying because they're hoping Dave will come to his senses, or that the Council of Elders will correct Dave (they can't because Dave won't listen to correction - that's why so many ministers have left or have been fired!)
Some of the brethren are afraid of leaving 'the body of Christ' because he had said we won't be healed or won't have God's blessings. Fear tactics all
I can believe this is true, however, how can someone think this way? If Dave's "new truth" is false, and it is obvious that his prophecies of the past have not come true, how can anyone stay here? Can it really be the 'the body of Christ'? Why not move on to one of the other splinters, at least you won't have to pay Dave's "common", or put up with as much spiritual abuse.
The RCG will never be anything more than a fanclub of "Hey everybody, come look and see what God is doing through Dave!" trip. He's like a crazed Tony Robbins, he can't stop self-promoting himself!
I agree, though I think Tony Robbins is already rather crazed.
Here's an arithmetic formula-
Self-aggrandizing leaders + Open-minded humans = Mindfuck
This applies to religions throughout history.
To Anon 3:48
" Is there another religious organization that sells salvation???"
A certain very large church in history was known to sell Indulgences.
Look it up... nice company to be in Dave!!!
Amazing what money can buy, isn't it?!?!?
Part 1: When I was still attending RCG, Pack told the brethren that "you had to stay even if you didn't understand the new teaching." Amazing, who stays where you don't understand what is being taught? Not even to mention, it is a total doctrinal change from everything that those in the COG's have been taught. At least until now, "Elijah" has revealed new secret, hidden in the scriptures, knowledge!
In one of the last sermons that I half listened to, Dave said he is 'THAT Prophet'. Astonishing. He also said we are forbidden from 'proving all things' again because that would bring the body of Christ into fresh shame. So much for being like the Bereans who searched the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.'
He also said that anyone who doesn't believe the 'new teachings' should just leave and I caught myself saying 'well I'm outta here.'
He said only two ministers have left, one member left, repented and came back....and laughing that none of the brethren are following the ministers out. Problem is this: the vast majority of older ministers who have hoary heads (like I do) and have been around for decades have left. In my area fully 1/3 have left. Those who are still there? Some still believe this is the body of Christ and are afraid to leave.
Part 2: He said only two ministers have left, one member left, repented and came back....and laughing that none of the brethren are following the ministers out. Problem is this: the vast majority of older ministers who have hoary heads (like I do) and have been around for decades have left. In my area fully 1/3 have left. Those who are still there? Some still believe this is the body of Christ and are afraid to leave.
There's a lot of fear tactics in his sermons...I too fell prey to fear tactics. What really burns my butt (among other things is that my family and I made a fair sized contribution some almost 3 years ago that was supposed to go to build the campasse. We gave cheerfully thinking we were giving to God because He has been so generous and kind and patient with us over our lifetimes: healing, interventions, etc. I am sickened that this was all hocus-pocus.
Go to youtube and view Mr Michael Venish's video in which he tried to reason with Dave and what happened. Mr Behrer is out, just young ministers left - other than Jeff Ambrose and a few older ministers who for whatever their reasons are are still there.
Part 3: The Council of Elders have tried to reason with him without success.
We were told by Dave that the younger, newer brethren are all accepting these doctrinal changes and, get this - if us older brethren had done our Bible Study more deeply then we'd know about this doctrinal change. It's mostly the older brethren that are afraid to leave because Dave told us this is the body of Christ and that if we leave we won't have God's blessings of healing, safety, etc.
So these terrified members are much like those that stayed in Worldwide - thinking that too was the body of Christ, waiting for the Tkachs to come to their senses.
All the older sermons about prophecy are gone off the website. These sermons were the ones that were doctrinally sound just like when Mr HWA taught us.
There were two references to more doctrinal changes: the doctrine of grace isn't what we were taught (red flag!) and that Satan's punishment isn't what is in the Scripture it too is different than what we've been taught: he'll be shattered - like a green twig when you step on it.
Part 4: Summary: IF Dave wasn't converted at all, and he treated God's children like this he's in big trouble. IF Dave was converted at some point and lost the Holy Spirit and treated God's children like he did, then he's in big trouble. Either way he's in big trouble.
To the person who mentioned that this will end badly, I agree with you. I'm worried he's going to convince whoever's left to leave for Israel and it's not yet time, and it's going to be awful.
I can believe this is true, however, how can someone think this way? If Dave's "new truth" is false, and it is obvious that his prophecies of the past have not come true, how can anyone stay here? Can it really be the 'the body of Christ'? Why not move on to one of the other splinters, at least you won't have to pay Dave's "common", or put up with as much spiritual abuse.
How can people stay? They're terrified. Dave told us we wouldn't have God's blessings of healing and protection. They're the older members (like me). It took me a while to get to the point where scripturally speaking this was all complete garbaage and it wasn't me who left the church - the church left me.
Part 5: Remember - we're to come out of her my people also applies to truth vs a false church, false doctrines and false ministers. We're taught to contend for the faith once delivered - and not to listen to and accept 'another gospel'.
Regarding Feast of Tabernacles sermons: as Dave's been at this for a year now, I noticed several ministers mentioning these new teachings in their sermons from last year that we were supposed to listen to. I couldn't.
Next year for those who are left will be stuck with false teachings.
I have deleted all the sermons from 2016, most of 2015 and have been carefully picking through and deleting the 'brethren united soon' series, the 144,000 series, and so on. I now have a lot of room on my hard drive. There are places on the web that have all of Mr HWA's literature and sermons as well as videos. These are doctrinally sound.
Part 6:
One other person who is still there is James Pastor. I'm surprised at that. He's a retired cop and as one who has had to 'prove all things' he hasn't proven the timeline Dave has been blathering on about.
And, Dave takes a lot of time in one sermon to ridicule those of us who have said those doctrinal changes aren't what we learned form the Bible or Mr. HWA - he spent an inordinate amount of time with ridicule sounding manic, panicky, unhinged... you'd have to hear it to understand how desperate he sounded.
...sorry for all the parts, I wasn't able to make one post.
9.13AM Thank you for your informative post. What strikes me though, is that Dave couldn't get away with all these doctrinal shenanigans, if members had exercised their Christian responsibility of 'proving all things.' And by proving all things, I mean ongoing bible study to extend and strengthen ones Christian understanding. Dave is ruthlessly exploiting the defaulting on this responsibility.
I have personally seen this same phenomenon with old people who are swindled out of their life savings by so called financial advisors. There are many books written in simple English for retirees or near retirees, on finance and investment. Yet many have never taken the time to read such books. This leaves them vulnerable to con artists.
Anonymous on October 31, 2016 at 9:11 AM said...
“Part 5: ... I have deleted all the sermons from 2016, most of 2015 and have been carefully picking through and deleting the 'brethren united soon' series, the 144,000 series, and so on. I now have a lot of room on my hard drive. There are places on the web that have all of Mr HWA's literature and sermons as well as videos. These are doctrinally sound.”
Your desire to delete all of Dave's insane lies is understandable. However, you should have saved all of David Pack's sermons so outsiders can know what is going on inside the RCG. They could also be of value in the future if someone wants to write a book documenting Dave's slide into insanity. Of course, listening to all that endless, evil noise could drive someone crazy, so, again, deleting it all is understandable.
I am not kidding at all, or merely insulting, when I say that the raging false prophets (like Gerald Flurry and David Pack) behind the satanic imposter cults (like the PCG and RCG) are extremely deceitful, vicious, and cruel. Both of these characters and their cults pretended to be helping the true believers from the WCG to hold onto what they had been taught by Herbert W. Armstrong. Now, both of these characters have turned out to be unbelievably evil and both of their cults have turned out to be satanic traps.
Part 1 "Your desire to delete all of Dave's insane lies is understandable. However, you should have saved all of David Pack's sermons so outsiders can know what is going on inside the RCG. They could also be of value in the future if someone wants to write a book documenting Dave's slide into insanity. Of course, listening to all that endless, evil noise could drive someone crazy, so, again, deleting it all is understandable."
you're quite correct, and in retrospect I wish I had just put it all on a thumb drive for posterity. But to be honest at that time I was feeling so angry that we (the brethren) had been lied to, pressured, made to feel that if we didn't understand this 'new understanding' that there was something wrong with us! Then there was the fear factor as I've mentioned in other posts. Add to that the brethren who love God and love Christ - who wanted to give back something to God to build His church! We did it open heartedly, cheerfully. Then the 'common' became a doctrine we brethren who wanted to serve God worked in all kinds of fundraisers - because it was a way to show God we appreciated His many kindnesses.
The shift from an example of common was the story of Ananias an Sapphira that we all know. There was no government help like welfare, or food banks so it was done at that time only. Now? Any number of agencies can help for any number of valid reasons: widows and orphan allowance, disability and so on. Dave made 'common' a doctrine to help build Dave's church. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God gradually began to be replaced with a mishmash.
Christ was supposed to return to RCG HQ. Dave said He would be invisible for a while. Then He would show Himself as a man not a God. Brethren were so confused but held their peace not wanting to ask questions for fear. Lots of fear. So they said nothing and those who did speak up were upbraided, some were thrown out of the church.
The only way I can describe the mess is by way of history: when MR HWA sorted out the liberal doctrines, threw out and disfellowshipped various ministers somewhere between in the late '70s... he had doctrinally put God's Church 'back on track' - some of you reading this will remember this - it was a time of peace and unity.
Fast forward to when the Tkachs ran wild after Mr HWA passed away.. what did they do? change true for false, terrify the brethren and a lot of us left. Many stayed - some because they bought into the lies, some because they thought that to leave WCG were to leave the body of Christ. Serious stuff.
Which brings us to 2016: many left, many are confused and afraid to council with the ministry, afraid to leave, afraid afraid afraid. It's not a happy time in the RCG.
So Dave has been raising young men to teaching and preaching elders because all of the older, faithful men have either left after having told Dave why they were leaving, or having been fired for not going along with the changes.
The fear and manipulation is frightening. God will handle this in His own way. I'm convinced that our God is moving His faithful sheep one by one out of that mess and will deal with it all in just the same way He did in all the Church eras, in the late 70's, in the '90s, in the splinter churches.
Part 2: to continue: "I have personally seen this same phenomenon with old people who are swindled out of their life savings by so called financial advisors. There are many books written in simple English for retirees or near retirees, on finance and investment. Yet many have never taken the time to read such books. This leaves them vulnerable to con artists."
Yes. It happens all the time and it's sickening. I was told by one minister who had left that one senior person did give all and now is in a financial bind.
I said to that minister 'doesn't that mean that Dave is making merchandise of the sheep'? ...and he said yes.
So the focus has gone very subtly from Mat 24:14 - preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God and feed my sheep.
Someone here one this page commented along the lines of 'it's not going to end well'. And after giving some though as to the logical next step in Dave's thinking, I'm wondering if it's going to go along something like this:
Christ will return to RCG and be invisible for a while then be there in human form for a while. Dave's teaching that the members of RCG will rebuild the third temple and 'all the rich Jews around the world will see what we're doing and send in multiple millions of dollars to us'.
I'm wondering if Dave's going to give another 'Clarion call' sermons where those people who are still in RCG will en mass go to Israel one way or another...even though it's not time to flee to the place of safety IN PETRA. Dave was teaching that the holy angels will disguise themselves as eagles and each one of them will take one of us and carry us to Israel.
Now that Dave has made 'Common' a doctrine, and brethren are doing what they can to raise money for buildings on campus the Gospel of the Kingdom of God has morphed into something unrecognizable...the 6000 year timeline upended, all that we were taught by a faithful MR HWA gone, all the solid doctrines that we were taught by Dave from years gone by expunged from the website: sermons, video, booklets...all deleted from their servers because Dave doesn't want people remembering what we all were taught that were doctrinally sound.
I'm concerned about the mental, physical, emotional and spiritual well-being of those who are still attending RCG. They are drowning in a sea of spiritual sludge. I have to trust God because He said 'My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me'. I'm in contact with several...all of them older members like myself.
Answer to the question in regards to what was heard at the 2016 Feast sites in RCG, I understand they listened to last year's messages on CDs. I don't think any of the men in charge of the sites for RCG could have carried on with the nonsense that he has been teaching recently. However, there is a rumor that the Sunday evening service was another one of his long 2 hour sermons #46 or ?? He is still after money in order to complete his compound in Wadsworth. The integrity and character of any minister that has left or was fired because of disagreement with the recent teachings, has been vilified.
Many of the messages from this year's FOT CDs were infested with the doctrinal rubbish that began a year ago. So next year all the messages will be completely infested - poison, if you will.
Do you remember the analogy we used to hear in years gone by about how a cake could be baked with some poison in it - that the cake would be mostly be cake - but there's still a little poison in it? Same with the messages that will be sent to the brethren who rely on CDs or who can download them who are unable to attend the FOT due to illness, disability or whatever. The spiritual food has been poisoned.
..and so I just said to myself 'nuts to this' and deleted the huge folder on my hard drive: I didn't want to hear Dave's voice, look at his videos, just..delete. So the next step is to take all the materials from RCG, put them in a box and store it downstairs.
I can't make up my mind if Dave once was on track - and lost went off the rails, or if he never was converted and we're seeing the real Dave.
One minister said Dave had all these spurious doctrinal notes and changes in his Bible since '85. Astonishing.
I can't being to describe the sorrow I feel: for others who are still trying to understand, for those still in RCG afraid and confused, for sending in offerings, etc. I was played for a fool by a wolf in sheep's clothing.... God will deal with Dave at the appropriate time. I take no joy in that because it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God - and I have enough to answer for as all of us do.
We were told so many lies about the Third Temple, how we would live as physical beings for hundreds of years whilst teaching the Jews....
..I feel another cry coming so I'm going to leave off for now and grab another coffee...
I forgot I had this pdf. I want to copy/paste the following from Dave: Notice the warnings. Comments in brackets are mine.
"Below are questions the Church never saw, or did but could not answer."
(Never saw because they didn't exist in Scripture. Could not answer because could not see because did not exist!)
"They are to help God’s people come to grips with all that was never understood before now."
(See above comment! His favorite expression lately is 'come to grips with'...)
"The purpose is not to provide answers but rather to bring powerful stimulus to thinking people to (1) strengthen their foundation—but also (2) evoke long pause in anyone considering leaving and returning to the easy, familiar and comfortable.
(Fear tactics, intimidation... to those who think, who reject his doctrinal garbage!)
The questions are broadly grouped but in no particular order of importance. Some could fit several groups and others broken into many. Don’t worry if a question is not easily understood. This is merely a reference tool and record. It cannot begin to replace 100 hours of sermons containing almost one millions words.
(Okay - so members understand. But don't understand. But don't think, just trust Dave....)
NOTE TO ALL SPLINTERS: This is the first of several tools also designed for YOU. (Three more are outlined below.) Consider the questions knowing every answer is coming. Those in The Restored Church of God already know the answers,
(no - we don't know all the answers even if Dave you insist we do...and then insist later that we don't even though we do.... etc ad nauseum)
...and thus see the list as corroborative reminders. Return as other tools are added through early December that ANSWER all these questions.
(Please not the following very carefully:)
Any minister who tells you just from the questions he knows we are wrong is screaming he doesn’t need scriptural backup—that he can answer matters before hearing them—even the most important issues of God’s Plan and eternal life. LEAVE YOUR MINISTERS OUT OF THIS! They can study on their own if interested. While many of these men are sincere, they are the chief reason 400 groups exist today in the disagreeing mess all around you that God is about to fix.
(Frightening or what? Reminds me of the scene in the Wizard of Oz where this little man frantically pulling special effects levers tells Dorothy "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."
Anonymous on November 1, 2016 at 8:04 AM said...
“..and so I just said to myself 'nuts to this' and deleted the huge folder on my hard drive: I didn't want to hear Dave's voice, look at his videos, just..delete. So the next step is to take all the materials from RCG, put them in a box and store it downstairs.”
“I can't make up my mind if Dave once was on track - and lost went off the rails, or if he never was converted and we're seeing the real Dave.”
“One minister said Dave had all these spurious doctrinal notes and changes in his Bible since '85. Astonishing.”
The deleted files on your hard drive can probably still be UNdeleted if the storage space they were using has not yet been written over with other data. Copies (not the original) of the noise could then be made available to be shared with those of interest who want to know what David Pack is up to. David Pack's writings and rantings keep on changing and/or getting deleted. It seems like someone (maybe you?) who has been in the RCG and has the actual factual information needs to preserve it and make it available for the official record of what really happened in the RCG.
From everything that I have read and heard, it appears that David Pack, and Gerald Flurry, always were rotten characters from the start. They just hid it from the people that they attracted by pretending to be standing up for what HWA had taught. Those who knew them personally and saw what they were really like knew long ago that they were bad news.
"The only way I can describe the mess is by way of history: when MR HWA sorted out the liberal doctrines, threw out and disfellowshipped various ministers somewhere between in the late '70s... he had doctrinally put God's Church 'back on track' - some of you reading this will remember this - it was a time of peace and unity."
I was in Pasadena during that time. It was a time of fear and trembling.
"...how can someone think this way? If Dave's "new truth" is false, and it is obvious that his prophecies of the past have not come true, how can anyone stay here? Can it really be the 'the body of Christ'?"
Nope. It never was the the body of Christ, but only the cult of HWA's body of group-think! Both churches never had Christ, but RCG still has a whole lot of Ole Herbie parts and familiars! And that's what people fear the most, the unfamiliar. Everybody gets homesick now and then.
DBP
By the way, Tony Robbins actually is a all-around great guy and a wonderfull human being. I met him once and I've known a couple of people who have worked for him in the past. He is a very likable guy, kind of like a GTA but much more authentic. It is his style of self-promotion that tends to bring in the low-esteemed, like moths to a flame, that they then proceed to use the over-promotion to build a cult-of-personality that surrounds themselves and Tony, like a cocoon. When it hatches, they are brand new and in a wonderfull new world but sometimes overly attached to Tony. It doesn't have to work that way, but that is too often the case with that style of promotion. So, I was just using the trope of the never-ending sale of guruship and more enlightenment that will come if you will only fork over the cash for the next upgrade that Dave Pack seems to be trying to do. But Dave Pack is KNOT a people-helper, he is a Sadist! With the "weak light" that lights his day, he surveys the suffering of others needed to help him get his way. Is this the way of a good sheperd? Or of a wolf who needs a cash crop to buy the fuel to find his way?
Some time ago, RCG announced that it was going to post the legendary 'all things common' sermons, then backed away at the last minute. Now, Dave has let us down again- we were supposed to be treated to an end times chart detailing from the apostasy of the 90's the Great White Throne to be released on Halloween and now nothing...
Maybe Dave has received some new last minute revelation and has to revise everything all over again including the 50+ sermon series.
As the JW's say "The light gets brighter".
Ronco
However, there is a rumor that the Sunday evening service was another one of his long 2 hour sermons #46 or ?? He is still after money in order to complete his compound in Wadsworth. The integrity and character of any minister that has left or was fired because of disagreement with the recent teachings, has been vilified."
You're correct on both points. Pack has been so subtle, so devious in the way he's doing the endless fundraising in Christ's name (and by His authority as Pack is fond of saying) that Jim & Tammy Bakker could have benefited from his methods.
And as one poster mentioned indulgences were sold - as well as being paid big money to pray loved ones out of hell, purgatory or limbo... a recent tract Pack sent out to members started with reminding everyone about the 'doctrine' of common and ending with a threat that if we don't give all to him to finish off his compound, then we'll lose our Crowns! This sounds so much like the garbage Flurry used to spout.
As to vilification of faithful ministers of God who'd left? Absolutely - and although Pack has not named any ministers (because the list would be too long and really alert members to what's really going on) Pack made them sound like the worst scum on the face of the earth by allusion to the supposed sins in their lives. This, I believe, was to make the brethren think 'well of course they left, they were sinning.'... except we all sin.
Pack's seemingly endless sermons ("and no end in sight' as Pack said) are bum-numbing. And I used to think Gerald Waterhouse's sermons were bum numbing!
Some time ago, RCG announced that it was going to post the legendary 'all things common' sermons, then backed away at the last minute. Now, Dave has let us down again- we were supposed to be treated to an end times chart detailing from the apostasy of the 90's the Great White Throne to be released on Halloween and now nothing...
If the chart you're referring to is the one he's been blathering on about for several months now, I doubt he'll post it because it will be still more proof of his apostasy from the truth. It would be yet another indictment. That's why he's deleted all of the early sermons, books, etc.
Pack's really painted himself into a corner: he can't come out and and admit he was wrong. There's too much ego, money, and power on the line. The remaining faithful brethren would stampede out of what remains of RCG at Mach 2. That would put the ministry who stayed in a bad light so richly deserved.
...For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
However there is another Scripture that comes to mind `be sure your sin will find you out.
`Some other things Pack has said when put together is illogical:
He wants money to finish off the campus and houses so that the ministry could live on campus, but he`s also said that any day now it will be time to flee...not to Petra but to Jerusalem where 'all the rich Jews around the world will donate multiple millions because they'll see physical people demolishing the muslim dome of the Rock and building the Third Temple.'
...however having said 'all brethren will be reunited soon' so they too will bring their tithes and offering to finish the campus, he now says they won't be reunited any time soon at HQ but at the Third Temple in Jerusalem.
...and to max out your credit cards, take out loans at the bank and don't worry about repaying any of it because brethren will be unreachable at the Third Temple. I believe this is called fraud.
...there will be a mass healing soon. First it was to be with brethren around the world, then that got changed to in Jerusalem...but we'd still have our physical bodies for the next 200 years.
Pack keeps changing his mind on everything. First he said there was a First Dominion, then a second, possibly third before the millennium! Then he said he doesn't like to call the first Dominion the first Dominion anymore. He didn't mention what to call it...
The deleted files on your hard drive can probably still be UNdeleted if the storage space they were using has not yet been written over with other data. Copies (not the original) of the noise could then be made available to be shared with those of interest who want to know what David Pack is up to. David Pack's writings and rantings keep on changing and/or getting deleted. It seems like someone (maybe you?) who has been in the RCG and has the actual factual information needs to preserve it and make it available for the official record of what really happened in the RCG."
Now I really feel badly for deleting it. I can't undelete the items because the drive has been written over when I moved some audio books onto that drive from various thumb drives and then defragged the drive.
I had someone e-mail me Pack's booklet 'Is THAT PROPHET' alive today because it doesn't exist anywhere on the internet anymore. I'm going to upload it to Scribd in a day or two and post the links so that anyone who's interested can read Pack's indictment of himself by himself.
Anonymous on November 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM said...
“Some other things Pack has said when put together is illogical:”
“...and to max out your credit cards, take out loans at the bank and don't worry about repaying any of it because brethren will be unreachable at the Third Temple. I believe this is called fraud.”
“The WICKED borrow and do not repay...” (Psalm 37:21, NIV).
The false prophets always try to get their followers to do the exact, diametrical opposite of everything that the Bible teaches.
David Pack tries to turn his followers into a bunch of destitute fraudsters with bank and credit card debt. The banks will not be able to recover the money from David Pack, and those who owe the debt to the banks and credit card companies will be destitute. The “bums” (as David Pack calls them after discarding them) won't have to hide out in Jerusalem from their creditors. The park bench that they end up sleeping on, or the culvert that they end up living in, probably won't have a mailing address where the banks and credit card companies can reach them.
Anonymous on November 2, 2016 at 12:22 PM said...
“Now I really feel badly for deleting it. I can't undelete the items because the drive has been written over when I moved some audio books onto that drive from various thumb drives and then defragged the drive.”
Awww, don't worry about it then. What is done is done. It was just a bunch of evil noise anyway. People need to stop listening to all the evil noise, and stop reading all the evil scribblings, of all the evil false prophets. Everyone should go find their Bible, if they can, blow the dust off it, and start reading it like they were supposed to be doing all along anyway, before they got sidetracked by the endless evil noise and endless evil scribblings of all the evil false prophets.
“...and to max out your credit cards, take out loans at the bank and don't worry about repaying any of it because brethren will be unreachable at the Third Temple. I believe this is called fraud.”
Jesus said that, “The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks” (Luke 6:45, NIV).
David Pack's sinful and shameful rantings reveal that he is a perverse, conscienceless thief who does not care about anyone.
Pack's prophetic timeline chart is finally up!
No wonder why so many of his flock are confused- the wheels are coming off in Wadsworth...
Ronco
Awesome! October 29, 2016 at 3:49 PM
"Dave Pack as a seriously delusional mental case"
"The deleted files on your hard drive can probably still be UNdeleted if the storage space they were using has not yet been written over with other data. Copies (not the original) of the noise could then be made available to be shared with those of interest who want to know what David Pack is up to."
Not possible! You can only undelete the deletions on the original drive. You can image a hard drive partition with a program like Ghost for backup and cloning. But that 'image' itself does not contain the previous physical state of the hard drive partition.
DBP
The thing about Tony Robbins, is that he's an asshole.
I just read that the extreme worship that surrounds him is simply due to his wonderfulness, and also the 'understandable' fault of his over-enthusiastic followers.
(I've read nearly identical apologetics about a myriad of cult leaders.)
Oh, please, don't make me puke-
Tony Robbins is nothing but a cult asshole, plain and simple.
We all have a asshole, I just try to NOT talk through it. My only experience with Tony was shaking his hand. They're huge! So is his personality. People that I know, that have worked for him, have witnessed some hilarious situations that have happened at his seminars.
"I just read that the extreme worship that surrounds him is simply due to his wonderfulness, and also the 'understandable' fault of his over-enthusiastic followers."
It's not his fault that there are people out there already like that, cult-minded. But he will take them and their money, and his info-mercials drag on luring more, and the people fawning over him gives him 'free' promotion. His info-mercials tend to be shallow and contrived which tends to attract whom? It's a silly cycle. But that cycle is no where as viscous as DCP's game. Tony's seminars are not about god. Also, the people already know that he is not a god, even though a cult-of-personality still develops there. And those people who keep forking over the cash by going to one seminar after another like groupies, is where some of the funniest stories have taken place.
DBP
So funny...I thought this was a recent post...was surprised to see it is from 2016!! It could have been written today! Surprised Truly Crazy hasn't commented.
David C. Pack's August 31, 2013 Prophetic Guess
The VERY BEST THING that David C. Pack ever came up with was his August 31, 2013 prophetic guess that totally failed in spite of his 24 given reasons + 32 not given reasons = 56 total reasons for why something big would happen then. Sincere people who were honestly wondering about David Pack could then see clearly that he was just making up prophetic nonsense and that there was really nothing to it.
After his prediction failed, David Pack quickly said that he certainly wouldn't make that mistake again, yet quickly went on to discover where “we” had been wrong (the wrong calendar had been used) and talked about a spring fulfillment. Everyone should have just laughed at David Pack and walked away at that point. Tragically, those who had already given David Pack too much money leading up to the prophetic date guess failure mistakenly thought that they had to wait it out and see what the spring would bring. Of course, things only got worse after that, for the next eight years so far.
Those who do not learn from date guess history seem to be doomed to repeat it, over and over, year after year, especially if they listen to David Pack. David Pack's latest seemingly endless series of prophetic lies and nonsense could have been totally avoided if people had learned from David Pack's August 31, 2013 prophetic guess that totally failed.
There is no point in reading any of David Pack's prophetic writings online. They all turn out to be wrong and they all eventually get changed and deleted.
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