It is an interesting contrast to read the absolute putrid drivel coming our of the deluded false prophet Almost-arrested Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, doubly blessed but not ordained, dream weaver, second witless witness and bitter disappointing "son" to Rod Meredith, Bob Thiel and the Chief Pharisee James Malm about how they face persecution for "boldly" preaching their messages of bondage. Even United Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God and the Restored Church of God cry about persecution and being constantly attacked by "satan." these foolish men have no idea what persecution is as they sit in the warm safe homes in 100% safe environments which allow them to preach and print their daily piles of pig slop.
These lying fools do not know what real persecution is. All of these men are weak little milquetoasts who cry at the slighted whiff of anyone disagreeing with them. "Oh woe is me, I am being persecuted. Oh what will I do? Gary and and Dennis are making mocking me and called me a fool! Woe! Oh woe is me!"
Contrast this to the Coptic Christians in Egypt today. Last week two horrific bombs were planted in their churches that killed scores of people. Hundreds were injured. These people face daily persecution. Real persecution, unlike the COG version of persecution. Then, one week later, on Easter day, they came out to put faith into action with a trust in God that was more important than personal safety. Can you imagine any of the pissants leading a COG doing such a thing? They would be cowering in their basements thumbing through their big thick Moffatt Bibles looking for some kind of new revelation that they can bastardize as new truth.
"I don't think the churches are any emptier, in fact they might be fuller," said Bishop Angaelos."But it just means people leave home knowing they are a target, but that doesn't stop them."One Copt who gave his name only as John said he will attend Easter mass despite the threat of attacks.
Despite Bombings, Egypt’s Martyred Christian Church Celebrates Easter
Targeted for slaughter by the so-called Islamic State, poorly protected by the Sisi government, Egypt’s Copts are struggling to survive in their ancient homeland.
See story here
32 comments:
Christians are being driven out of most middle east countries. There is a reason the media are largely silent on that, yet whine like stuck pigs whenever a black thug is shot by police or a jew paints a swastika on his own door and screams `Nazi persecution'. Syria might be the exception, where Assad, perhaps the greatest terrorist fighter in the world today (which is the real reason the Western media hate him) is called `The Great Protector' by the Christians in Syria.
There are underground Christian films from the Middle East of Arabs who had recently accepted Jesus Christ having their throats slit by Islamic zealots. There are also now 100 million Christians in China who must meet in secret churches. There are unimaginable penalties if they are caught.
The suffering of such Christians who put their lives on the line doesn't register with ministers, members, or fake title-takers in the ACOGs, because they've been desensitized by the teaching that such ones are "Christians falsely so-called". I don't even know how that computes in an Armstrongite's mind, because clearly, these martyrs are doing much more than saying "Lord, Lord...."
I've got a few relatives still in an ACOG, and I sometimes worry about them for different reasons. But, the one aspect I never have to worry about in their lives is persecution. I also have a sibling who goes on annual Christian missions (mainstream) in one of the middle eastern nations. Believe me, I am ever vigilant in my prayers for him during the times he is over there!
The fake title takers invent and then exploit "persecution" for self-validation. That's so sad, because it cheapens and makes light of the very real persecution and martyrdom that exists around the world.
BB
Just such a dreadful situation going on over there. Alas, the anti-government insurgency in the Sinai that has been raging since 2011 has inflicted more death and destruction upon innocent people. May the filthy work of the terrorists and murderers of ISIL be ended soon.
But I thought COGs claimed persecution was a sign of the True Church!
But then, if the facts of the "attacks" are true, it's not really persecution.
Yup we got it good in the states. We in the COGs just don't get it.
"Persecution" in WCG and now in all the splinters, in my experience, is based on the accepted fact that they alone, (all of them), are the one true church and therefore ANYTHING that happens to thwart them, any criticism of their interpretations or push back is persecution.
I NEVER encountered any peer ministers and certainly not administration, most of all the Armstrongs or Tkaches who could abide anything remotely approaching criticism or skepticism with their understanding or approach to "leadership."
Or as I learned along the way with those theological clowns...
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim
Or it's persecution.....
BANNED WRITES-
"These lying fools do not know what real persecution is. All of these men are weak little milquetoasts"
MY RESPONSE-
I appreciate Banned being "politically correct", but as a woman, let me break convention and call them what they really are...
PUSSYS!
Of course Armstrongist leaders know what persecution is -- they've been persecuting their members for decades.
I don't believe the COG has been persecuted since the Mayflower arrived.
And even the savage locals brought them Food and Turkeys to survive their first winter.
It has all been self inflicted. Like GTA being thrown off WGN for not using the correct words speaking about fellow human beings of the homosexual persuasion. Or the British government wanting to shut the World Tomorrow when GTA spoke about Britain losing strategic harbors like Gibraltar.
Even if I do not agree one bit with Roman Catholicism or 400 AD christianity I did grow much appreciation for those lonely crazy preachers landing on Viking, Saxon, Frankish shores talking about a God of love to their bearded audience, swords ever ready. Kicked in the rear when they showed that "God" who wasn't even able to keep himself alive, so what use should those wariors see in such reverence except for the qualities of being living proof of other nations to plunder.
So different from GIII flying crybabies like tele evangelists.
nck
Connie wrote:
>>>I appreciate Banned being "politically correct", but as a woman, let me break convention and call them what they really are...
PUSSYS!<<<
That is a perfect description of Bob Thiel. I have never seen such a delicate COG leader before. Has he ever worked a hard day's labor in his life? Has he ever gotten his hands dirty or developed working calluses on his fragile bible flailing hands?
Maybe I take this verse out of context or misunderstand it's true application, yet it was the first thing that came to mind when reading this post.
"If you have run with the footmen and they have wearied you, then how can you contend with horses? and (if) in the land of peace (wherein) you trusted (and in the land of peace where you were relatively secure) (they wearied you) then HOW will you do in the swelling of the Jordan? (how will you ever manage in a truly turbulent uprising with those dominant, violent and oppressive that are over you.) Jeremiah 12:5
If you cannot deal with /reason with your fellow man in a land of relative peace how are you ever going to manage in a turbulent uprising? You won't.
If they are now deleting comments, or refuse to answer questions, or can't take the heat of people who point things out about them NOW, how are they EVER going to manage when the real 'heat' comes? They AREN'T. They all seem to think that they are God's perfectly righteous and will not have to deal with any such things. Me thinks they deceive themselves.
That might be true, but at least he has worked and is rich from business and not from the tithes of people like me.
The COGs are delicate snowflakes and chronic martyrbators.
"That might be true, but at least he has worked and is rich from business and not from the tithes of people like me."
Thiel is a peddler of homeopathic pills and other herbal remedies. He is like many other COG quacks that have made a fortune off of gullible members and the public.
Thiel is still a man who has never done physical labor where he has actually gotten his delicate body sweaty. I have known the guy for many years when he was part of LCG. It is sad to see his mental deterioration as he takes on more and more "biblical" attributes he thinks he is deserving of. He is a lair at the core when he says God has set him in his positions.
Are you still in LCG?
Some members do experience legit persecution. It must be the minority since most members go complaining to the ministers like cry-babies over every slight. Something in fact condemned in the bible.
What persecution have present day COG members experienced here in the U.S.? Sabbath work issues? That is not persecution at all. Get a job that does not require it and then nothing else happens. No one cares, no persecution, nothing. Even conscientious objectors were never persecuted. Bob Thiel has never been persecuted and if he says he has been he is lying. Lying seems to be one of his traits any more.
"Are you still in LCG?"
I assume you are referring to me from the "homeopathic" comment above.
No I am not. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever set foot in an LCG church or any COG. Sick of the spiritual abuse.
Some conscientious objectors were sent to prison.
It's not clear how many may have been sent to prison from Ambassador College Big Sandy Texas, but they were threatened and persecuted there right in the Worldwide Church of God ministers and their snarky teenagers.
Oh please Black Opps.The Church of God was instrumental in creating legislation protecting conscientious objectors starting WWI.
You raise an interesting point though why some may have had a hard time defending their case vs the State.
Nck
Anon 451 wrote: Thiel is still a man who has never done physical labor...
Apart from the CCOG website usually claiming it's been a busy week, and he churns out reams of verbiage, I wouldn't know. HWA, on the other hand, made no secret of how he despised manual labor. This is contrasted by WCG's portrayal of "The Real Jesus" as a hard-working He-man. From the background of the Apostles, they seem at large to have had their fair share of time at work that HWA wouldn't touch.
One of the most disgusting kinds of "persecution" these wimps talk about is when someone dares to object to blatant mis-behavior and just plain BAD behavior...
Like when some elder acts in horrible sin like adultery and then the church leader crybabies whine that the people that righteously object to slimeball behavior are called persecutors of the church...
"in the bounds of Satan" if you call a spade a spade!
Some of the worst persecution I received when I was a WCG member was at Ambassador BS. This persecution did not emanate from the leadership only but originated at every level. It indicates how pervasive the corruption of the institution was. I often felt quite alone while I was there at "the happiest place on earth".
I agree with Black Ops - the Armstrongite ministry has been persecuting the lower echelons apparently since the inception of Armstrongism. And beyond being persecuted by the Armstrongite ministry, lay members were also persecuted by outsiders. Lay members lost jobs and careers over the Sabbath for instance. While the ministry lived in seclusion from the world with a protected sinecure. Within that little redoubt, it is possible to come to have a totally distorted idea about what persecution really is. So this is not surprise.
-- Neo
Some people in the old WCG were persecuted by the ministers and their minions due to their noticeably better character. The Cain versus Abel phenomena happens inside as well as outside the church.
Come on, nck! Surely you are aware of the double standards and hypocrisy always prevalent in Armstrongism! The overt was that a true Christian does not do military service, so church members participated in the legal processes which were part of the conscientious objector program. Young guys who worked the program for less than minimum wages at Goodwill or emptying bedpans in hospitals were often respected in local congregations. But some who had imagined that their condition through this could be improved by working instead at "God's" college in Big Sandy Texas underwent instead a special kind of hell at the hands of the ministry and members. Not so much in Pasadena, but the abuses of conscientious objectors in Big Sandy have been well documented. It's all part of the dirty laundry that perhaps members in the Fiji Islands, or Botswana had no idea existed.
BB
NCK:
I was a 1-W at AC/BS. And I can assure you that even though there was a policy of supporting conscientious objection by the WCG, there was also persecution of those who were COs. That is perplexing and paradoxical but real. Many WCG members were proud of their participation in the military. I recall one guy who was a leading minister at BS who had fought in WW II and had a fascination with Civil War battle field strategy. He was unapologetic.
During my two year tour of duty at AC/BS, I never heard one sermon in support of the conscientious objection. It was always treated as a "dirty little secret." None of the 1-Ws I knew were ever held in high regard for taking a stand on their convictions. They were just an embarrassing anomaly to the WCG leadership, student body and lay membership.
-- NEO
Neo,
Thank you for sharing your perplexing and paradoxical experience at BS.
BB. To be honest, I was not aware of the situation in BS regarding (Vietnam I assume) CO's.
It is indeed a strange duplicity.
HWA as a former Quaker being extremely clear in Christians not to bear arms. The Ancient COG differing itself from the SDA by being very clear about no armed particiation in the Civil War and the Iowa congregation forcing legislation to protect CO. Brother Rupert being very clear on WWI and the right to not bear arms.
And yet we have a huntsman, Korea Veteran as spokesman in the particular brand we attended.
Somehow David's slingshot seemed to have been the attractive alternative as compared to the suspicious youth culture of the seventies.
It is a most terrible thing to be persecuted or betrayed by ones own.
nck
Of course we're talking about Viet Nam era COs, nck! There was not yet an AC campus at Big Sandy during the Korean conflict, and the draft was abolished in January 1973.
There haven't needed to be conscientious objectors since the Viet Nam war, and there haven't been any Ambassador Colleges in decades. I'm thankful about both.
BB
You don't get persecuted much for BEING in a church, but you sure do for LIVING by anything that is different, including good deeds like refusing to lie, refusing to cheat, and telling the truth about the zio fifth column!
BB,
I said it is a terrible thing to be betrayed by people who are supposed to protect you.
If you like to bicker on the legal details. There is no peace contract between the Koreas so technically there were colleges during the conflict lasting until this moment. (just being funny)
On a more serious note. About 20-25% percent of the members were outside of US. I believe our Assyrian brethren had to cope with CO until 1995 or so as draft was obligatory in the international theatre.
I find these exchanges interesting since they always take me to forgotten history. In this particular case it gave me some more insight into the COG stance on the Civil War as I took the CO issue plagueing youngsters beyond the Vietnam war until the collapse of the Soviet empire.
nck
When US soldiers returned from Vietnam, they were treated badly and sometimes spat upon. Now there seems to be a consensus that this was deplorable behavior and "welcome home" efforts are now common. I saw a large contingent of people at the airport in our nearest large city welcoming soldiers back from the Middle East.
Within the WCG at AC/BS there was a parallel to this vilification and abuse of returning veterans. This was found in the treatment of 1-Ws. I have written about thie elsewhere.
Just one comment. I used to do maintenance in an area called "Booth City" at BS. Students lived there in small booths. I was working on something in one booth and noticed that the young woman who occupied the booth had built a shrine in the back of it to show appreciation to soldiers serving in Viet Nam. There were posters, pictures and poetry. Maybe she had a relative serving in Viet Nam. Unlike most Americans at that time, she was able to understand the profound sacrifice that many US soldiers had to make.
Oddly, this student never ever, to my knowledge, spoke to a 1-W about our similar commitment to conviction. (The chances are she never spoke to a 1-W at all outside of communications concerning work because that was an act forbidden by the AC Administration.) There was no corner of her shrine that was devoted to 1-Ws.
1-Ws on the BS Campus were regarded with disgust and disdain. We were a class separate. Even the few regular people on campus who could recognize the sacrifice of the contemporary American soldiers in Vietnam could not extend this to 1-Ws. I came to know a lot about the WCG, its ideals, its commitment to Christianity, the quality of education at AC and its culture from this experience.
To this day, I do not fully trust anybody with an Ambassador College education.
Yes NEO,
All very interesting descriptions by a contemporary of a period of upheaval.
I'm not sure if today we look at military in terms of "sacrifice."
During the Vietnam period perhaps matters were more defined in "Good" and "Bad".
I'm not an expert, but perhaps the sacrifice was recognized but it was judged by many that it was not for a good cause. Especially not after the breaking news of atrocities of war.
Now, regarding the treatment of 1-W's.
As I was reading the Civil War dispute between Ellen G Whites's SDA's and "the Church of God" people. It becomes clear that church leaders at that time were concerned at being deemed unpatriotic by not serving. COG leaders readily disfellowshipped people taking up arms, but SDA's were hesitant. They reasoned that if the State Mandated the taking up of arms it was the State that was guilty of sin. Not the person obliging by doing its patriotic duty.
Perhaps in the Vietnam time church leaders were also concerned by the image of being unpatriotic as they pushed their international agenda of international cooperation through ngo's. It is very difficult for the Gandhi's or Martin Luther Kings to be seen as true masculine man when they are not carrying a tool. (not disregarding the abuse you describe)
nck
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