If every minister, member, or speaker who dares to utter a prophecy could understand the impact of a false prophecy on the lives of a fellow member - perhaps, it would cause one to stop with their careless and thoughtless babbles.
When a person speaks a prophecy, and that prophecy turns out to be wrong, it causes discouragement, sadness, disappointment, despair, even depression - all the way to personal doubt about the authenticity of Jesus Christ Himself. When a person speaks a false prophecy, it causes a desensitization and an expectation of failure. When a person speaks a false prophecy, it does more to tear a person away from God then it does to build someone up in God. It is so counterproductive to the Christian life that only when one realizes the impact that careless prophecy does to a person that one understands a little bit why in the Old Testament false prophets were dealt with so harshly and severely.
The Church of God is littered with thoughtless idiots - and I do mean idiots - who, in an abundance of zeal but a lack of a sound mind - have taken a tool of prophecy and have used that tool to defecate all over the Bible, and vomit all over the word of God. Every time a minister opens his mouth, and utters nothing but contemptible lies, it shames Jesus Christ and it hurts His people. It is just as bad as picking up a knife and stabbing a person in the heart, because what comes out of their mouths are sharp, vicious lies that only cause despair in agony.
Yet they continue to spew lies from the mind of the heart of the father of lies - the devil. Why do they do this? What is it that causes them to continue in lies, even after they're proven wrong?
I've spoken before about the issue of pride within the Churches of God - and it's no different with false prophets. Admitting to being a false prophet is admitting to a liar. Admitting to be a liar causes people to lose trust in the pastor. And when you lose trust in a pastor, you leave the Church. If you leave the Church, you cut off the pastor from a certain amount of money. Do you see where I am going here?
Prophecies in the Churches of God have always had an impact on "The Bottom Line". Prophecies were used by Armstrong to increase funds during his large scale building projects, which allowed the completion of the Auditorium. The prophecies - which turned out false - already accomplished their purpose - to fund the building project. Prophecies have always had the goal to increase income, and whether or not the prophecies were correct or not did not sway the prophet. Once the prophecy is issued, and the timeframe is gone, and the money has come - the purpose has been accomplished. There's no refunds - just an "apology" and a kick down the timeline for the prophecy - maybe next time.
Seriously, there is not a "next time".
The effect of a false prophecy is anti-everything the Holy Spirit's fruits are. Does a false prophecy by a false prophet bring joy? No, only incredulous doubt. Does a false prophecy by a false prophet bring peace? No. It only proves the prophet has not been spoken to by God whatsoever. Does a false prophecy bring truth? Absolutely not. A false prophecy is just that. It's a lie by a liar who is, almost always, at least in the Churches of God, unrepentant, unapologetic, unwilling to admit, and scared to death that any admittance will impact his financial intake. This is why they don't renounce. This is why they don't admit. Because it's all about the MONEY, and admitting one is a false prophet will take away the MONEY. Kicking down the line keeps the MONEY flowing in. This is truth. This is what it has always been about.
A person who is the embodiment of what and who God is will embody the fruits of Who God is and What He stands for. There will not be a rush to prophecy, but a desire to serve. There will not be a rush to pretend to be a know-it-all, but a mind of compassion and understanding to help each person individually. There will not be a constant conveyor belt of speculations, maybe's, if's, and's, or but's, or of orders, commands, and legalistic bullcrap which only serves and fuels ones ego of importance - but a true heart of compassion, love, joy, and service in the love of Christ. The desire of a true minister of God will not be to hold all the cards in regards to prophecy - but to strengthen and build up the Church in Jesus Christ in love and in service.
The negative impact of false prophets cannot be understated. False prophecies are absolutely devestating to the well being of good-hearted, God-minded Christians - but they've been happening for thousands of years by those who think they speak for God but only crush the souls of their followers, leading many away from God to a life of godlessness. God is not found in the pastors, the ministers, or the churches and the theologies of false prophets, but in the still, quiet, flowing river of simple love, grace, mercy, truth, goodness, and compassion. Those who blast lies like a lion love to deafen the quiet whisper of holiness. The only way to truly listen to whispers is to embrace the Whisperer. It is time to stop feeding the false prophets and enabling their evils. It is time to embrace the Whisperer. It is time to put the false prophets out of work. It is time to stop giving money to evil wicked ones. It is time for Church of God Christians to repent from enabling wickedness - and turn to God - and part company with liars and false prophets.
submitted by SHT
37 comments:
The answer is simple. Believe exactly what the Bible says about this all!...
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
Well, that petty much takes care of James,Peter,John, Timothy and Paul with Matthew, Mark and Luke thrown in for good measure.
The prophecies supposedly attributed to Jesus in the Gospels are as reliable as Nostradamus or any fortune teller - vague and generic enough to be believable and yet imprecise enough to always be adaptable to any current situation. The "Signs of the End" would include: Wars, Disease, Famine, Earthquakes, Persecution, Hated by your enemies, a Lack of Love, etc. When were these things NOT occurring? Even the statement in Matthew 24 that "...this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come," can be interpreted as getting the gospel out to the "known world," or the "civilized world," or to "representatives of every nation," or.......... just slot in how you can make this fit today's circumstances.
Bear in mind also that when "prophecy" is written AFTER the fact, it's hardly a reliable source of knowledge. I could claim that Richard Nixon predicted that a blonde-haired TV celebrity would be president someday, and he'd be right. But could someone 2,000 years ago prove that Nixon had actually said that?
Finally, we tend to dismiss the blatant facts that all of the prophecies of Jesus have failed (Matthew 24:34 "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened."), but many still believe in them because we see what we want to see, even if there's really nothing there. Check it out: https://www.ufosightingsdaily.com/2011/02/alien-face-hidden-to-look-like.html
In my experience, a majority of the people who are still attending an ACOG have already parted company with their lying leadership. They want to have uplifting Sabbath fellowship with congenial brethren, though, so they put up with the blowhards who are in charge.
With ever year that passes, however, this approach is becoming harder and harder to sustain. As the churches shrink, a longer drive is required to reach that Sabbath fellowship. As ministers require and there is less money to pay pastors, the quality of Sabbath messages declines. In turn, more members stop attending. If there is any ACOG that isn't in a death-spiral, I would love to hear about it, but from what I can see they are all dying, some more quickly than others.
Yes, some ministers may resort to crazier and crazier false prophecies to draw in the most gullible, but as we see from the decline of PCG and RCG, and the failure of CCOG, the market for that kind of crazy is limited and may be almost tapped out.
To start his Radio Church of God, HWA had to perform a delicate balancing act. He relied on COG7 for his bona fides, so he couldn't entirely trash them, but he needed to neutralize them so as to keep his people from drifting to the parent church. Will some next-generation Armstrongite figure out how to claim HWA's legacy yet repudiate most of it? I don't think so. COG7 didn't leave a trail of false prophecies behind, as HWA has done. This more or less ensures that within a generation or two the Armstrong descendants will be no more powerful than the various groups that followed Sidney Rigdon or James Strang rather than Brigham Young after Joseph Smith was murdered.
2:08 Perhaps once you learn to read in context you might understand.
Mat 24:34 - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Which generation was he talking about?
Mat 24:33 - So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
He's talking about the generation that sees all these things.
So it's just your biased ignorance that's failed.
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
Ah, 3:08, I thought someone would pull that futile bluff. I agree, the context is always important, but rather than reading Matthew 24 from a Christian context, try understanding it from the context of the people Jesus was supposedly talking to. If YOU were standing there at the time, what other context could there possibly be that "THIS generation," was the generation Jesus was referring to. And the fact that Jesus follows it up with "So likewise YOU," can mean only one thing...THEM, the original audience.
If Jesus said, "You," to people listening to him, but meant NOT "You," but some other "you" thousands of years later, he would have been misleading and deceptive to the original audience who would have believed he was talking to them.
Kevin, we are ALL biased, me and you. Your bias is you must believe the Bible even when it fails the test of truth, and so you have this desperate need to force and twist the scriptures to say new things that the authors didn't mean.
"This Generation" means THEM to whom the words of Jesus were spoken. It does not mean "the generation to whom these things happen to."
But back to the original question. To whom was Jesus speaking when he said the words and to whom did he mean for it to apply? The answer is within the context, plain and simple.
"Take heed that no man deceive YOU." (Matt 24:4)
"...YOU shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars..." (Matt 24:6)
"Then shall they deliver YOU up to be afflicted..." (Matt 24:9)
"When YOU therefore shall see the the abomination of desolation..." (Matt 24:15)
"But pray ye that YOUR flight be not in the winter..." (Matt 24:20)
"Behold, I have told YOU before." (Matt 24:25)
The context in which Jesus spoke was his own. The "you" that he was addressing was the group he was addressing then and the group to which all these things would happen for, and soon. Jesus was telling those disciples that these things would happen in their time. Jesus made a mistake in his perceptions.
In our time, Christians read the same words and see the "ye" and "you" as "me" and "us" just as the original disciples would have. The only difference is that the disciples actually were disappointed and this generation has yet to realize their own disappointment to come.
The proof that Jesus himself meant the people he was talking to is found in the fact that the "this generation" comment is actually the tale end of a much larger, often overlooked quote taken in it's entirety.
"So likewise YE when YE shall SEE ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto YOU, THIS generation shall not pass, till ALL these things be fulfilled." (Matt 24:33-24 emphasis mine
There is no reason to twist the words of Jesus to mean more than they were ever intended to mean. A scripture can never mean what it never meant. The early disciples and infant Church, knew it meant them and we see the gradual deterioration of their personal confidence in the immediacy of the Second Coming promise throughout the NT.
I Thessalonians 4:15-17 "...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..." Meaning...some would die, but not us who tell you this. Jesus still means us.
I Corinthians 15:51,52 "...We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump..." Meaning...you will die, but we won't but it all works out...Jesus still meant us.
Romans 13:11-12 "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand..." Meaning...we had some doubts, but now we know it's almost here. Jesus still meant us.
James 5:8 "Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." Meaning...impatience was growing, hang in there. Jesus still meant us.
I John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." Meaning...Jesus still meant us.
I Peter 4:7 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly...." Meaning...ok, it's been about 60 years, but Jesus still means us. (The First Century Christians)
The First Century Church was wrong in it's view. Gospel Jesus was mistaken in his own perspectives in the story of his times he told.
I recognize the point SHT is making concerning the goofs who claim to know the prophetic future. But we cannot deny that it is an oft told tale and the NT is filled with equally mistaken notions about the end times spoken by all the greats in the text. Like it or not or even being able to come to see and admit it, the New Testament Apostles and Jesus himself, in the story, may not have been lying for that implies deceit. But they were wrong and false prophets as well just as much as we see others in our times. We can't give Peter, James, John and Paul as well as Gospel Jesus, a pass on this if we are to be honest with the text.
"So it's just your biased ignorance that's failed."
Such language is the result of viewing WWE wrestling.
There really is no fear of false prophesying by COG leaders because they know that they will be endeared all the more to their members because now by their own admission, they are equal with the 12 apostles in believing they are in the last days.
The I am with them are you with me drumbeat keeps everyone in rhythm and is the subtle means of inducing fear into anyone who would now question by extension the Apostles and the bible.
2:08 and 3:08: Matthew 24:34 has always for me tied directly to the gospel - the restoration to life of the Kingdom of Israel. Thus that resurrected generation will not pass into the second death until all these things be fulfilled. See also thou shalt surely see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven.
If you believe in the HWA model, then 3:08 PM explanation applies. If you don't believe at all, then 2:08 PM explanation applies. A, B, C or possibly D - take your pick and make your stand for Matthew 24:34 is a scripture that has to be addressed.
Dennis you don't believe those were Jesus' words so why argue using logic you don't believe in? That seems disingenuous at best...
I think we judge harshly sometimes. Some of those guys genuinely believe they have a duty to preach their prophecies. I'm pretty sure HWA did. It wasn't to separate people from COG7....for the first 30 years he was still co-operating with COG7. In fact, at Sisku Meadows, a COG7 owned camp in Oregon, are piles of stacking chairs that were given to the camp by Ambassador College, Big Sandy. The stencils underneath the chair even attest to it. AC students used to go up to Oregon to work as ministerial trainees in COG7 churches in the college's very early days.
That said, yeah, they miss the point of prophecy, which is repentance. It's always about repentance. The first word of the gospel is repentance, and prophecy points out the need for us to repent. So there is great value in it when we use it that way. But, the way it is used in ACOGs, as some badge of knowledge or sign of some special treatment by God, is repugnant.
I suppose a lot of prophetic teaching arises from the urge to have to know everything. What is so bad about admitting we don't know and simply trusting God to lead us and look after us. We don't need to know what is in the future. We just need to know that he is already there waiting for us.
HWA’s all purpose “pass” for this was his insistence that prophecy is dual. According to him, a prophecy becomes fulfilled on a certain limited scale initially (seige of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple) only to be fulfilled on a much grander scale at a later date (conquest and tribulation of “Israel” followed by Armageddon and the return of Jesus Christ).
Personally, I see no use for prophecy in modern Christianity. The people who claim to have the answers and to know the most are the most clueless, and have a track record of doing the absolute most damage, ruining their members’ lives and families. They cause fear, paranoia, and the damage that accompanies those conditions.
Shakespeare wrote that “A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come.”
Armstrong theology preoccupied its followers with death and destruction. This overarched the lives of all its members to the extent that it supplanted their very sense of purpose and suppressed the normal development of their talents. Many felt as if they could endure the assorted inconveniences and impositions for a short time, only to witness that timeline being perpetually extended as the previous one failed. If this bad acid trip of an HWA prophecy mold were actually going to happen, it would be much better to be facing it suddenly and unexpectedly than fearing it and hoping it would never happen over a period of decades. Hypothetically speaking, what sense does it make to endure a 5 or 6 decade tribulation, when worst case prophecy scenario is limited to 3-1/2 years?
He was right ! William Shalespeare was absolutely right!
BB
BB
Shakespeare's "a coward dies a thousand times.." needs to be appropriately applied. People who live with the "take no crap from no one" motto, often get into needless fights and die young. Christ said "turn the other cheek" for a reason.
When mentioned in Hollywood movies, it's often soldiers being asked to perform near suicidal acts.
851 said " Anonymous said...
Dennis you don't believe those were Jesus' words so why argue using logic you don't believe in? That seems disingenuous at best... "
It doesn't matter who did or who didn't say what . I am showing you in the Bible where the Bible and the authors of the Bible say what they say. In this case showing that the Bible itself shows that Jesus saying that "when you see these things..." Jesus was talking about THEM not US. That was the original question.
It does not matter whether I believe the words or not. This idea that I can't point out what the Bible might actually mean as opposed to what some think it mean because I don't believe it to begin with is simply stupid reasoning on your part.
Bar Ehrman , who writes prodigiously about the problems with the text, the origins of the text, the real meaning of the text is a highly paid professor of theology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He is also an atheist who does not believe the words of the text but can run you in circles as to what they meant in their original context and the history of it all.
I take it you are opposed to logic, research and human reasoning. I would suggest that the only reasoning any of us have is HUMAN REASONING. If you think you alone have the mind or the reasoning of God or Jesus and thus are more qualified to know "the real meaning" of the Bible , you are delusional.
In this case, If you can't see, as all I meant to point out, that Gospel Jesus was talking to the then present audience of his day, as the text clearly shows, no one can help you. If you think that "when you see all these things" means whoever is around when "all these things happen" in the future, you are sadly mistaken and any trained theologian and Biblical historian would tell you that.
The idea that I can't point out commonly understood theological and historical Biblical realities foreign as they might be to most here and certainly the ministry and leadership of the Churches of God, because I am an atheist and they don't read outside their own faith restrictions, is just nuts.
I could give a rip about how street thugs interpret Shakespeare or what Hollywood does with it. I used the quote to illustrate my point that HWA/WCG made their members into lifelong cowards by keeping them in a state of perpetual fear.
I personally do act as a buffer by taking crap to avoid senseless fights, and frequently turn the other cheek. That is just good business sense in many cases, and has nothing to do with constantly and needlessly fearing death and mayhem as taught by bottom-feeder “prophets”.
BB
@Dennis 11.06 PM in rebutting 8.51,
Dennis is absolutely right regarding everyone has a right to say something irregardless of his beliefs. Atheists and believers have their rights to voice out what they read. We all have brains to think and reason.
Just because Dennis does not agree with you doesn't mean you have a right to tell him to get lost. Kind of remind me of Muslims in a South-east Asian country who say that non-muslims have no right to comment on Islam since non-Muslims know nothing about Islam.
Is this site "For members only"? We must be open to what others say and do not just condemn them out of prejudice.
"I could give a rip about how street thugs interpret Shakespeare or what Hollywood does with it.'
Hahah. That reminded me of my English Literature professor at University after one of the students incessantly offered her particular interpretation of a piece of literature.
"Hypothetically speaking, what sense does it make to endure a 5 or 6 decade tribulation, when worst case prophecy scenario is limited to 3-1/2 years?"
This I told my kin several times after they would offer a "confirmation biased" view of the world.
I have also offered them many times to have them transported to ANY time in the past they would rather be than today. Non of them have offered a time sofar.
nck
1.03 AM
8.51 PM did not tell Dennis 'to get lost.' I remind you that there is a commandment against bearing false witness against your neighbor.' You sound like Kevin McMillin.
I agree with 8.51 PM. Dennis is guilty of the 'stolen concept fallacy.'
It's defined as 'requiring the truth of something that you are simultaneously trying to disprove.'
Example: 'Reason and logic are not always reliable, so we should not count on it to help us find truth.'
Explanation: 'Here we are using reason to disprove the validity of reason, which is unreasonable - reasonably speaking.'
If Dennis believes the Bible is fairy tales and nonsense, why is he constantly quoting the Bible to us? That there are other scholars doing the same, doesn't make it right.
Anyone can say anything they like, I agree. That includes us that think that atheists that have a singular motive, to manipulate people into leaving religion and turning to atheism, shouldn't feel bullied into being quiet.
PCG/RCG are run by the devil himself. But that doesn't make anyone against PCG/RCG automatically righteous. Satan quoted scriptures to Jesus, and also didn't want people to believe in God or the bible.
Thats quite a hedy statment in bold at the end SHT.
Church of God Christians need to repent from enabling the wicked ones. Well i don't know what rank you have previously held in WCG but in my experience corrupt men bring in more corruption. Wicked hearts delighting in wickedness.
Tell me SHT when does God declare in scripture that he considers its all the christians fault?
Christians, the true ones within the Churches of God have had a raw deal these past 50+ years. I dont think God the Father and Jesus Christ requires repentance over the wicked ones that rule in high places.
God is merciful and merciful to his people who have cried out in their prayers for many years.
3:08????
I have a name, and I am not afraid to use it!
As far as Matt. 24 goes, the words translated you are in several different cases which I'm sure is important but I'm having a difficult time finding any accurate information on how the cases are used for general statements like I think verse 33 and 34 mean. Not necessarily the specific crowd that Jesus was talking to.
Some instances of "you" are in the accusative case when it's clear that he's meaning the person or people that he's talking to.
Other instances it's in the irregular plural case or the irregular dative case. Verses 33 and 34 use the irregular cases, so to be dogmatic about who he was talking to, whether those he was talking to or the future generation that actually sees all these things, will take more than just a cursory understanding of the language. And to try to push how we use the English word you is dishonest!
The main point however is that Dennis has not proven his point that all of Jesus' prophecies have failed!
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
Byker Bob- good stuff and not just because I've said similar. You said it well.
Sorry it was 2:08 who has not proven his point, not Dennis.
Kevin
2:24 You'll notice that I didn't say a word about 8:51's comment to Dennis. I jumped on the ones acting like he doesn't have the right to speak his mind. To question him as 8:51 did is different.
So which one of us is bearing false witness?
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
4:41, you know what? If an atheist came on here anonymously pushing his agenda I'd probably be the first one attacking him as you've been attacking Dennis.
The difference is that Dennis is man enough to give his name and you are an anonymous coward. Give a name and maybe the "bullying" will stop!
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
This is ridiculous. Anyone one who disagrees with Dennis (and there are several), gets a earful from attack dog Kevin McMillen.
Who made Kevin a gatekeeper of what's acceptable on this blog?
8:35 Nope, never been a fan of fake wrestling, kinda reminds me of the fake anonymous posters on here.
Football was my sport. Tackle football and no pads.
As a teen my friends and I would get a couple games a week going. One time when I was about 15 or 16 my uncle who is 17 years older than I and my friends wanted to get in the game. On one play we were each on the line, across from each other on opposing teams, after the play he had to go to the E.R. to get stitches in his eyebrow.
Another time my friends and I went to the local college field, WVU Mountaineers, where our High School football team was practising, we asked if they wanted to get a game started, they said "No, we don't have our pads." , we said no pads. They refused.
It's been almost 40 years but if you want to come out we can get a game together, tackle, no pads. Or would you rather fake wrestling?
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
"4:41, you know what? If an atheist came on here anonymously pushing his agenda I'd probably be the first one attacking him as you've been attacking Dennis."
I am not attacking Dennis, I am pointing out that he is using this site's comments area as a personal platform to evangelize atheism. Go look through his comments.
Kevin, do you believe satan was unfairly portrayed in the bible when he wanted others to follow him instead of the one true God?
McMillen, not wearing pads while playing tackle football doesn't make you a man, have you heard of the rest of the world's main sports, rugby and soccer - not a pad among them!
As far as not proving that Jesus' prophecies failed, when Matthew's author (whomever that was) writes in Matthew 16:28, "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man in His kingdom," either those folks haven't all died yet, or Jesus didn't say this, or Jesus was wrong, or the big event has already happened and there's nothing to look forward to.
Since the Son of Man (with the accompanying prophesied gathering of the elect, great angelic trumpet blasts, and final judgement) hasn't revealed himself, then it's pretty elementary to "prove" that Jesus was W-R-O-N-G.
As far as Matt. 16:28 why don't you bring up Mark 9? Doesn't fit your narrative as well? Add to that mistranlations, some claim it says glory and not kingdom. And the word for coming also means going, so who knows what was really said.
I don't care, but those facts weaken your argument!
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
Anon 12:21 Mainstream Christians recognize that Jesus was referring to His transfiguration and that several apostles saw Him with Isaiah and Moses. Further, the Kingdom of God isn't just in the future. For those that have received the Holy Spirit they are within the Kingdom of God.
Since the Son of Man (with the accompanying prophesied gathering of the elect, great angelic trumpet blasts, and final judgement) hasn't revealed himself, then it's pretty elementary to "prove" that Jesus was W-R-O-N-G.
Jesus also said you have to eat his flesh and drink his blood... he spoke in parables and metaphors on a regular basis.
Also, his statement "some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man in His kingdom" can easily be applied to seeing him after he was resurrected and he appeared to many people.
Here's one example of Jesus being seen in his kingdom:
"But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;"
5:07 -
Suppose that someone is well aware that their minister meets the criteria of a "false prophet" - and still supports that person if nothing else then financially. Here's the question.
Who does the responsibility lie with? The false prophet who is lying in God's name, the member who enables the false prophet by financially supporting him - both, or something else? How would you answer these questions if you were on a doctrinal committee deciding such church edicts?
I believe that when faced with lies and evil, one should leave, SHT. But the typical ChurchofGoddian believes you should stay put and wait for God to correct the evil one who is lying.
In their defense, they do this because they’ve been led to believe they are members of God’s True Church, and there is nowhere else to go. A litany of bad fruits is apparently not sufficiently convincing evidence to most of them.
BB
nck said..."I have also offered them many times to have them transported to ANY time in the past they would rather be than today. Non of them have offered a time sofar."
May I sign up to be transported back in time? I would so love to live in New England from the "roaring" 20s through to the "fabulous" 50s! *sigh*
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