Behold! It is appointed unto all the "we shall not all die" Apostles, Prophets, Pastors and Members to wonder if they could not have gotten a refund on time wasted being convinced they wouldn't and then to die...
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30 comments:
Older HWA members who had witnessed this in other denominations, must have seen through this con. And they said nothing.
Actually, Dennis, no one taught that any of us would not die. The teaching was as scripture says, It is given once to die to all men. After that the judgment. Look it up for the full and exact wording.
Even when Paul speaks of “in the twinkling of an eye” the teaching was even then the person being changed would die, or that scripture would not be true. So, no matter who you are, the bible says you must die, even if only during the
‘twinkling of an eye.”
I’m curious, where did you get the idea that some would not die? It was never taught during my time at AC, or by anyone I’ve known during the 65+ years I’ve known of the RCG/WCG teachings.
Bob
You're kidding? Have you heard of 1975? I recall local sermons in the 1980s instructing members that the end is a few years away, and that the very young in the church will be princes and princesses on Christs return. I clearly remember a top minister in a early 1980s FOT claiming that the end is 3-4 years away.
Home > KJV
A devotional to read with your children!
1 Corinthians 14
1 Corinthians 16
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
King James Version
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
It was read and quoted often. Sorry Petry.
Don't even go there attacking Ken Martin. Very low to attack a well respected teacher of the Bible. Is your life that unhappy?
Petry colluded with Armstrong, Rader, and others to promote heresy and lies about prophecy. He, like so many others in Pasadena helped cover up those lies. You should no more trust Petry than you do Thiel.
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
I Cor 15:51
Maybe "we shall not all die" doesn't mean "we shall not all die" With a little twist, it can mean "we shall not all die"
Fantastic,
A bunch of non-believers got excited over a book that they don’t even believe in. Finally, got a response.
I tell you what they taught at AC early on, and I get blamed for it.
So then, here we have verses that say one thing, and another verse that says another.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So, how do you reconcile that? At the time it was taught that it was a death to life in the twinkling of an eye. That explanation was given because unlike the atheists running this site, they didn’t believe the bible had contradictions, this was the explanation.
Why, 12:23, would you lie so blatantly about me? You said: Petry colluded with Armstrong, Rader, and others to promote heresy and lies about prophecy. He, like so many others in Pasadena helped cover up those lies. You should no more trust Petry than you do Thiel.
Would you like to explain that? Thanks for placing me falsely with the top 2 when I was only 17, 18, 19 at the time. This must be why so many here won’t use their real names. How did I cover up those lies? What lies?
And, Dennis, I knew you’d come thru, because at heart, you still want to be a good minister, not a bad atheist. Like a good minister you were on top of chapter and verse. Now, if you and others here would do this more often, wow, what inspiring and uplifting discussions.
9:46 said: Bob
You're kidding? Have you heard of 1975? I recall local sermons in the 1980s instructing members that the end is a few years away, and that the very young in the church will be princes and princesses on Christs return. I clearly remember a top minister in a early 1980s FOT claiming that the end is 3-4 years away.
Ok, where is that saying you won’t die? Saying the end is near does not say you won’t die. Oh, I wasn’t listening to 1980’s watered down deceptive sermons by those in the pulpits bringing down the wcg. You were listening to pablum. My wife and I left in 1978. and haven’t been back. Wow, that was 43 years ago, before many of you critics were born. But, it’s ok, I won’t hold your lack of personal experience with what you criticize against you.
Now, please take note of this. I am not a wcg member of any splinter group. I have not attended any wcg church since we left in 1978. My responses are to show WHAT was actually taught during the time most of you criticize, and have no personal knowledge of. I’m not trying to teach wcg doctrine, for much of it I no longer believe. For instance:
1. I use the so-called “sacred names.”
2. Rome is not the fourth beast, a revived Assyria is.
3. I understand that ALL are saved, and will be given eternal life.
4. I do not believe that the New Covenant requires tithing. There is not one example of a person tithing, just offerings.
5. I believe in healing and proper diet for good health. Be glad to compare my record with anyone here. My wife and I have NOT been to a doctor for ailments , etc. since our marriage in 1964. Myself, I haven’t been to a doctor since 1956. Exceptions are: childbirth, pilot’s medical exams, employment exams, and one chiropractor when I popped my lower back out.
6. Since learning what causes the annual flu, we haven’t “caught it”’ for over 30 years.
7. I post here because the majority of things said here did not happen, or are totally distorted, and need to be corrected.
8. And, I, along with Marion McNair were trying to correct some of the problems you folks cry about, before many of you were born. In 5 days my wife and I will be in our 80’s.
There’s more, but the point is, nothing said about me here is totally accurate. They are just attempts to nullify what I actually experienced versus what is too often falsely claimed here about the early wcg.
Dennis said:
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
I Cor 15:51
Maybe "we shall not all die" doesn't mean "we shall not all die" With a little twist, it can mean "we shall not all die"
__—————-
Interestingly the Greek implies another possibility. As the CLNT translates this “We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose, yet we shall be changed…”
Some believe this is saying, we won’t be buried, put to, but will be changed instantly while standing from mortality to immortality.
Read rest of verses.
There no such thing as death….from your own perspective, but I’m certain this will flip DDs mind.
False. Not me. I will avoid conveyor belts. And spinning wheels for good measure.
The word "appointed" - Heb 9:27 - comes from a Greek word, Strong's 606, that means to lay up, to reserve or be laid up, be reserved. Looks like a better translation is ....it is reserved unto men once to die...... Which could be construed as: it's the plan for men to die once....but there may be or could be exceptions.
This is more like it. Actually discussing the scriptures!
By the way, reread Dennis’s quote. He uses the word “die,” which is not the kjv. Paul used the word sleep, not die. Check around 30 different translations and one finds the word sleep over and over again. That is because what Paul was saying ls “we won’t sleep” in the grave waiting, we will be changed instantly without the waiting. He is not saying we won’t die. Check all the places where the word sleep is used in connection with death. Then check as many versions as you can on I Cor. 15:51+ as I mentioned. Sleep in death deals with time in death. It’s really simple. Paul’s just saying when Yahshua arrives we won’t have to wait in death, but changed virtually instantly from mortal to immortal, for as I Cor. continues this mortal must put on immortality.
Bob Petry, C.L. is speaking the truth re the distortions by some in Banned here of what HWA and WCG taught about the truth e.g Heb 9:27 and I Cor 15:51.
I am impressed by his and his wife's good health. Must be benefiting from HWA's "Seven Laws of Good Health" and the Healing booklet. Keeping God's commandments, laws and statutes truly have unbelievable blessings.
Keep writing to Banned, Bob. We need you here for mutual spiritual growth.
Hey Earl,
Conveyor belts are very useful for boosting productivity in many industrial applications. But, as a belt, they are lousy at holding your Levis up!
Continuing...
What is the sixth head of the beast?
Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
It is "one is," which was Rome the empire that existed during John's time.
5 are fallen. Writing those five heads out in a backward order are as follows:
5 Greco Macedonia
4 Medo Persia
3 Babylonian Chaldean
2 Assyrian
1 Egypt
Believe it or not, but time will tell...
John
Armstrong prophecy has completely failed. They did not warn us about a bio-weapon that would strike both Germany and America at the same time. False prophets, every one of them.
If any of these leaders took the depopulation "vax" they will probably be dead within three years (unless they got a placebo).
To find out if you got a placebo or the bio-weapon, you need to get your blood examined under a microscope to see if your red blood cells are clumping together instead of repelling each other the way they are supposed to. The science is seems to be settled, but the media is suppressing the true science and promulgating fake science. The same shareholders control the media, Big Pharma, the WHO, and the CDC, which is largely privately funded. E.g. Bill Gates has shares in MS and MSNBC and is the largest contributor to the WHO.
For anyone who might be interested, some additional thoughts on the conversation here about the apparent contradiction between Hebrews 9:27 and I Corinthians 15:51-52 can be found here:
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2021/08/is-everyone-destined-to-die.html
Bob Petry, C.L., August 23, 2021 at 10:06 AM, said...
"Fantastic,
A bunch of non-believers got excited over a book that they don’t even believe in. Finally, got a response.
I tell you what they taught at AC early on, and I get blamed for it.
So then, here we have verses that say one thing, and another verse that says another.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So, how do you reconcile that? At the time it was taught that it was a death to life in the twinkling of an eye. That explanation was given because unlike the atheists running this site, they didn’t believe the bible had contradictions, this was the explanation..."
******
In regards to death we're told that it is the last enemy. The first death, whether it be for human beings or angelic beings, is a temporary cessation from life, or as the Bible says like a sleep: it isn't permanent.
The second death will be a perpetual sleep, from which there is no coming back to life: it will be as though one never existed.
Additionally, Bob said this:
...Now, please take note of this. I am not a wcg member of any splinter group. I have not attended any wcg church since we left in 1978. My responses are to show WHAT was actually taught during the time most of you criticize, and have no personal knowledge of. I’m not trying to teach wcg doctrine, for much of it I no longer believe. For instance:
1. ...
2. Rome is not the fourth beast, a revived Assyria is..."
******
How is a revived Assyria a fourth beast?
The Bible makes it clear that there is a Beast with 7 heads, even an 8th head, and it appears that Rome is the 6th head of that Beast. How so?
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:10
The "one is" during John's time of writing Revelation was the Roman Empire, and is the 6th head of the Beast.
Where does Assyrian head fit?
"Five are fallen!" Here are the 5 heads in their reverse order from Rome:
6 Rome
5 Greco Macedonia
4 Medo Persia
3 Babylonian Chaldean
2 Assyrian
1 Egypt
Believe it or not, but time will tell...
John
Entropy Sucks!
Petry, our new resident know-it-all writes: ""Fantastic,
A bunch of non-believers got excited over a book that they don’t even believe in. Finally, got a response."
As a sacred namer, you do not follow the book either as you have no idea who Jesus is.
8:36 said: As a sacred namer, you do not follow the book either as you have no idea who Jesus is.
There you go again with the name calling. “sacred namer.” Can’t you folks come up with something new and decent?
Yes, I certainly do know who Jesus is. My book, The True Messiah — WHO IS He?, explains it quite well. In fact, here is just one email I received about it.
“ I finally finished reading your book, Bob, my "first" reading of it, as I expect it's something I'll revisit several times. It may be the most important work I've ever read and the biggest or one of the biggest gifts I've ever received. I am grateful beyond words to benefit from your untold hours of study and meditation. Your book explains and reconciles the ever-persistent struggle and troublesome feeling I've had that there's something off, even wrong, about the "Christianity" I grew up with. This taste of clarity makes me hunger for more. And so of course I'm interested in reading more of your writings. Is there a "most accurate" English translation of the Bible in your opinion? An edition you might recommend?
I'm digesting this enormous enlightenment and thinking of all of the ways it brings apparently random bits together and makes more sense of this world and these times.
Deepest gratitude to you. Please deliver a hug from me to your lovely wife.
Mary”
I guess you know what Isaiah says about those who know the Father’s name? Says they are His people.
Hilarious! So you wrote a book about Christ. Blah, blah, blah. I checked out your videos on the same subject, boring as hell. But then you are an authority upon everything about the Bible. The blog owners have been following you for years here as well as did Gavin Rumney and the Painful Truth. You sir do not have a good repution, especially since you entrenched yourself out to Stan Rader during the receivership so you could be seen.
I imagine your True Messiah book is filled with as much crap as you claimed to know about the Israelites wandering in the desert.
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2018/01/mystery-behind-exodus-has-been-solved.html
7:25
You my friend are a liar. You don’t know what you are talking about. Too bad that’s the only you can make yourself feel important.
Please show us proof that I’ve ever been involved with Stan Rader.
And, you imagine blah, blah, blah. Well it appears to be a very poor one.
Yes, please show us real proof I had anything to do with the receivership to be seen or anything else. You have none. I wasn’t even in Pasadena then. Thanks for showing us once again how really uninformed the critics on this site are and thrive on lies. The darkened heart at work. Yes, please give us you proof, any any proof whatsoever I have ever met Rader up close. Even the interview in the paper that interview Ted and me was separate interviews.
Man, this is exciting an actual liar doing it about me.
AND thanks for verifying what I’ve long suspected, the folks here have followed me for years. Yeah! That explains more than you know.
So, the videos were boring? Of course you would say that, it’s your modus operandi, as Marion used to say.
This is the best post yet, thank you for once again proving the Bible is true.
Looking forward to see how you place me with Stan in Pasadena when we were attending church in Baltimore at that time.
You must be one of those butterflies I described before. ;)
Thanks 7:25. I could never place where I heard the name Petry, now I know!
Some of the comments on that post are hilarious!
Fret no longer! A COG member has solved the riddle! Sit back and be amazed!
This is from someone we have not heard from in a long time, Robert Petry.
_———————————————
The above is from the url mentioned by 7:25.
It contains another lie. I was not a cog member as claimed. We left the wcg in 1978, long before I presented anything on that subject. You guys are always basing your posts here on fabrication, not facts. Don’t you think your reputations would grow if you became known for doing your homework instead of fabricating your presentations?
Oh, and thanks Dexter for your kind, but distorted remark. Too bad we never associared with each other at college.
Petry’s reputation gets worse every time he speaks.
Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Neo Therm wrote:
I had thought of these people as friends but it felt like I had walked into a group of Grand Inquisitors. They seemed to rejoice in being able to make a group attack on a single person, me,like it was some kind of bonding experience. After the Inquisition I went home feeling angry and sad. _————————————————
I know how you feel Neo as I get the same Inquisition here on the Banned site. Funny thing, the people here are doing exactly the same thing they complain against the WCG doing. Go figure. Which leads right back to Romans 1 quoted above.
And, the folks here are doing to me the same thing I went through at Ambassador. Seems the Inquisitors then have moved here to continue the Inquisitions, only as the Banned Inquisitors now. But now they pretend to be the good guys fighting the WCG inquisitors, not explaining they themselves were those WCG inquisitors. Like Solomon wrote: There is nothing new under the sun.
Welcome to the art of deception on steroids. Don’t you just love irony? I do.
Now, you’ll love this too.
Jack Elliot took away my portable radio while listening to classical music. I was alone on my job tearing off the roof of one of the old houses bought to expand the campus. But he said very dogmatically not to do it again.
Jack Elliot threatened to remove me as dorm monitor because someone told him I was talking to a co-ed around sunset on campus. She was telling me about something that upset her and needed some advice..
Ted Armstrong broke up a relationship of mine. I was told later he did so because I was only a new student and not good enough to date a gal his brother had dated.
Someone called Herbert Armstrong and told him one of his shipments had come in. So he walked across campus to see it. When he got there I had to tell him no such shipment had come in. My boss was standing there listening. Afterwards he took me to lunch and ripped me a new one for doing that to Mr. Armstrong. I didn’t do it, but someone at the college did, deliberately to cause trouble.
Someone told the student counselor, for me it was Dr. Hoeh, that I had been going to a local dentist and wasn’t paying my bill. My past experiences with dentists was with military ones while I was a kid. So, even today it would take a tank to drag me to a dentist. The story was a total fabrication.
Those in a sense are minor, but at the time it was a big deal to me. I wonder now how many of those same type of people are the inquisitors here. :)
I left out the more serious nonsense.
All this site really needs to improve dramatically is just a few, maybe a handful, of very good Anti-Inquisitors.
6:30 wrote:
The "one is" during John's time of writing Revelation was the Roman Empire, and is the 6th head of the Beast.
One might want to question that. First read the whole section. John was taken in vision to the time he sees the the vision, he is not writing that this happens during his lifetime.
Rome is not the fourth beast revived. Only one fits that, Assyria, which was historically lost. Scholars did not believe it existed until some later. A little research on the net can prove this. I doubt this is anything interesting to most here.
Bob Petry, C. L., August 27, 2021 at 2:21 PM, said...
"6:30 [[John]] wrote:
The "one is" during John's time of writing Revelation was the Roman Empire, and is the 6th head of the Beast.
------
One might want to question that. First read the whole section. John was taken in vision to the time he sees the the vision, he is not writing that this happens during his lifetime.
Rome is not the fourth beast revived. Only one fits that, Assyria, which was historically lost. Scholars did not believe it existed until some later. A little research on the net can prove this. I doubt this is anything interesting to most here."
******
One may want to question that if they would, but Rome was the 6th head during the time John wrote.
In a similar way, when Daniel wrote one may think that the Babylonian Chaldean Empire was the 1st head of the Beast, but it was the 3rd head: the head that was in existence during Daniel's time and the visions he received.
Egypt and Assyria were already heads 1 and 2, respectively, as past history.
Daniel wrote from his perspective and it was during the time of the 3rd head.
I don't question this, but you may continue to do so.
Time will tell...
John
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