Our most highly favored end-time prophet of the Church of God is back with his annual missive on how the Walldensians were Sabbath keepers and had apostolic succession.
The Great Bwana to Africa would claim apostolic succession considering he believes himself the greatest Church of God leader in human history. The problem lies in the fact that the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel was never ordained by anyone over him in ANY of the Church of God's he attended. This also leads to the myth that true apostolic succession is only available in the COG movement inherited over the centuries from other Sabbatarian leaders.
If that were true, which it is not, then how can the Great Bwana claim such nonsense? Herbert Armstrong never ordained him. Dibar Apartian and Rod Meredith never ordained him. Gaylyn Bonjour never ordained him. Heck, even Joe Tkach never ordained him when he was part of the Worldwide Church of God! The Great Bwana just adds this to the growing list of lies he tries to con his African members with.
The true Christian Church of God, and all of its true ministers, have laying on of hands succession from the original apostles to present.
And yes, we believe all who held succession did keep the seventh-day Sabbath, including Peter Waldo.
Waldensian Apostolic Succession
Jesus said that the true church would continue to the end of the age. Did any in the groups called Waldensians (or Waldenses), Vaudois, or Moravians have apostolic succession? Were there such claims over 500 years ago? Did any group claim to have an actual apostolic succession list of bishops? Was such a list at least partially accepted by the British Parliament in the 18th century or the Greek Orthodox Church in the 15th century or others centuries ago? Could the Waldenses have came from the true church in Antioch or Asia Minor in the 3rd or 4th centuries? Do modern American Waldensians claim to have such a list? What about the ones associated with that church or its Archivo Della Tavola Valdese in Italy? Did Dr. Thiel put together such a list and share it with them? Can such a list be seen today? Dr. Thiel goes over that and some of his research into this topic, while also asking for others to help fill in the gaps or assist in improving the list in this video. Dr. Thiel also discusses its symbol with a candle on a lampstand pointing to the fourth star and Jesus words in Revelation.
25 comments:
“100% CLOWN SHOW”
CORRECTION: 110% CLOWN SHOW
We can always hope God is strong enough to protect His flock whether they compile the entire list of church history leaders or not.
I take Bob's self-authentications about as seriously as I would if he claimed that he was a prophet because an elephant sprayed him with its trunk as he was walking through the zoo.
The man has mentioned that he checks here, might be a loose, remote part of the news regimen & routine occasionally. Lighthearted but serious banter debate can be shared with him & others such as Pack & Flurry & Winnail & Weston via these posts, jumping the ego fence they built if you personally email them.
The CONSTANT intricate quest to compile a long list of all the COG "one man apostles" hierarchy (governance) throughout history is motivated by a few decent & rewarding educational & spiritual aims. Another redundant aim of the OBSESSIVE heavy focus on men/men/men, leaders/mantles/apostles/hierarchy/GOVERNANCE is to corral current Christians into playing "follow the leader" i.e. register for Bob's selective service system at his unique draft board & sign up to pledge light allegiance to his personal office & leadership. (hierarchy/hierarchy/hierarchy, governance/governance/governance, me/me/me (under the guise of, "it's all following God who is "just above me" in rank"?)...
Doesn't the constant quest for listing hierarchy show an obsessive focus on "getting us folk out here" to recognize "him" & lightly laud onto him an allegiance we'd place in "no other man"? It keeps looking like a vaguely camouflaged ego trip.
He "kind of" wanted Christians once to follow Rod Meredith as that time's "mantle", & Rod Meredith liked things that not everyone approves of, such as NFL football for example. Does Bob now remember that a congregant back then could accept Meredith being their pastor, without the flock having to do or experience or approve of everthing Meredith did or said or liked?
Couldn't someone follow him toward future journeys without subscribing to his exact style & demands & expectations right now? Does God demand we approve of every little nuance Bob almost "requires" followers to adhere to? It wasn't a sign of "rebellion" for an LCG person to avoid huge portions of "Meredith-ism".
Can we safely avoid some "Thiel-isms" while sometimes enjoying the occasional lessons & studies & hope?
It's as if we are stiffly admonished to : "trust me...I'm here to GOVERN you, follow my 'Godly' governance, lest God forsake you till 1000 years" (& you lose your crown too, I & my particular COG & "hierarchy" are the "exclusive dealership" franchise outlet for Kingdom crowns)..."
"if you follow ME, we can build up "Africa", which is where church "charity" is located currently, under Evangelist Ochieng (pay no attention to what Bradox is up to)...my hierarchy & governance hereby decrees it"
Glad I'm in a church where three bishops are required to ordain a single bishop, and have actual records of succession tracing back to the Apostles.
Because he wasnt ordained, Bob had to repurpose Bonjours laying-on-of-hands while praying for his health and confidence to create an ordination. Its really kind of sad.
What I don't get about miraculous Bob's postings on his blog is why at the end of every post he has all of that single-spaced run-on sentence about all the information he has available. He needs to learn to use a return or space bat on his computer. It is very unprofessional.
Anyone with half a brain should declare APOSTOLIC SECESSION from Booby Thiel!
Apostolic succession seems overrated anyway. What would it matter?
Remember, 100 Caukkers x $50,000 x 10% = a cool half a mil! That's a large enough sum to motivate a hobby such as ACOG Prophet.
Plus, just meditating on all of that authority and the people who are looking to you would be some pretty heavy stuff.
The knowledge that you can actually be so very wrong about just about everything is no biggie when you have examples of other successful but ridiculous and fearless fellow hobbyists like Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry, Wade Cox, the late James Malm, the Kitchens, Jon Brisby, and others who continue against exposure and all other odds. In some peoples's minds, ACOG doctrine and all of its variations seem to be the highest quality teflon anyone who fancies themselves as leader could acquire! (unless you mess with the Feds like Weinland)
he's probably going to be right about The Cenacle
About one year after HWA's death, in January 1987, I heard a veteran WCG Pastor say it was acceptable to call Joseph Tkach an "apostle" - as if he was ordained to that title before HWA died.
If Tkach Sr. passed it on to Tkach Jr., it never was announced.
Of course Tkach Sr. would not have passed it on to Tkach Jr., Feastgoer! The Tkaches corrected all the cultisms and heresies! The splinter leaders of today are like the proverbial man on the roof in the rising flood who died waiting for God to save him after rejecting help from the fireman, neighbor in a boat, and a helicopter pilot God sent to save him!
Thank you Feastgoer, very interesting to look back on WCG folks' opinion on J.W.T. Sr. having "apostleship" (or not).🎳
Very puzzling times back then, & nothing new under the sun 🧩
So many of those wise guys subject their flock to play William Tell. Really ticks ya off royally.
So what would the leader of ccog say of sheldon monson and his group, or for that matter ron stephens of the new so-called worldwide church of god? don't these guys all say the same thing about each other and automatically disqualify each other right away? anyway who is this ron stephens and his group?
It was worse for us kids back in the '50s and '60s. Watching it all get taken down in the '90s was kinda like the world watching the Berlin wall come down in 1989! Very exciting. Then the 'rents found a splinter, and it was as if they moved from East Germany to Cuba.
They started calling him that in the Worldwide News eventually.
Can you imagine one guy only, with his finger on the bishop-button? "I concur" :
"...exclusively in the belly of a nuclear submarine where Captain Ramsay (Gene Hackman) and Lt. Commander Hunter (Denzel Washington) represent opposing sides of a debate with no clear right and wrong..."
Senior, I mean. If Junior ever used the title or was referenced as such, I don't know of it - though I was long gone at that point.
What Feastgoer says is partly true.
I'm not sure if Tkachsr was ordained with the Apostle title.
Yet AS with HWA. HWA would always verify if he himself indeed "fulfilled" the definition.
As Tkach Sr still had the "worldwide" media broadcast power 99percent or more of the members agreed that he fulfilled the role of "one sent" to preach to the whole world.
nck
FWIW, nck, Aaron Dean has claimed that the "apostle" title was something HWA didnt feel was his to give to someone else. It was one thing to appoint someone to succeed him as Pastor General, but the "apostleship" was a different matter.
I do not know if Dean is being truthful, but it sounds logical enough from HWAs perspective.
The Tkatches and Armstrong were apostles. They were sent by somebody but it was not Jesus Christ. There are only 12 apostles of the Lamb - Rev 21:14.
I saw many inner city publications featuring ads for clergy using grand titles of "apostle" & "prophetess". Also very often, "bishop" (i.e. "Bishop" T.D. Jakes)
https://owwire.com/apostle-michael-orokpo-biography/#:~:text=Apostle%20Michael%20Orokpo%20is%20a,the%20end%20of%20the%20earth.
https://m.facebook.com/events/baltimore-christian-faith-center/prophetess-lisa-hicks/1052318324919762/
https://m.facebook.com/TheGatheringPlacewithProphetessLisaMitchell
What if the new truckers convoy goes west past TX to help settle the apostolic secession succession let them truckers roll, 10-4
um
has person in question stopped to consider that there is no pint looking for succession via Waldensians because so far as I am aware they disown ever having observed sabbath - this being an invention of early Adventists and worldwide church of God
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