Holy milquetoast prophet, Batman! Banned has done it again! That Gary is such a BAD person! Stop picking on Bob, you agent of Satan!
Apparently, God's greatest gift to the Church of God popped his self-righteous cork big time over the video produced by a pro-Herbert Armstrong site that took the Great Bwana Bob and other self-appointed COG prophets to the woodshed and gave them all a royal Philadelphian spanking.
Several hours ago, I noticed the following headline from Gary Leonard at the anti-Church of God, Banned by HWA website:
Herbert Armstrong’s Own Words Make Mincemeat Of Bob Thiel And His Fake Prophet Status
Of course, the criteria for a prophet comes from the word of God, the Bible, and not statements from the late Pastor General of the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God, Herbert W. Armstrong.
It is always fun to watch self-appointed self-righteous COG ministers immediately dunk on HWA when he does not fit the interpretation that the false leaders expect us to believe. Both Bob Thiel and Gerald Flurry are really good at this. If they had their way they would delete everything HWA said about false prophets, because he damns every single one of these lying buffoons to the pits of hell where they belong.
The Great Bwana continues:
That said, let’s look at what he said, some of what the Bible teaches, as well as comments from leaders that Herbert W. Armstrong had ordained, on the matter of prophets.
Always the true prophets and ministers of God have stood almost alone and opposed by the overwhelming majority in Israel. That is Israel’s history of old. It is true today. (Armstrong HW. Why Russia Will Not Attack the United States, reprint 1980)
But the TRUE prophets of God have always put emphasis on the right CAUSE-on God’s WAY to the desired blessings.
Let me explain that. Let me make that PLAIN! This magazine deals with making truth PLAIN–understandable!
You may search the Bible from beginning to end. You’ll find the true prophets, apostles, ministers of God put first emphasis on the right CAUSE, not the effect. They proclaim THE WAY that leads to peace, happiness, security, and finally, eternal life. In Bible language, this means that God’s Word, and God’s true prophets and ministers put first emphasis on God’s LAW…God sends HIS prophets and ministers to proclaim the RIGHT WAY, to sh ow people that they are going the WRONG WAY, to cause them to turn around and get back on the RIGHT WAY through Jesus Christ by God’s free grace…
God’s true servants are not OF this world nor of its ways. (Armstrong HW. Personal from the Editor. Plain Truth, May 1966, pp. 2, 44-45)
HWA was in no way, shape, or manner talking about the self-appointed liars that were to arise after his death. Bwana Bob is NOT a true prophet, that is an absolute impossibility.
Notice how deceitfully deceptive the Great Bwana is in discrediting HWA:
Now, yes, Herbert W. Armstrong at least once declared that there were no prophets in WCG and no doctrinal need for them. Furthermore, here is what he said in a Bible Study on 1 Corinthians on July 18, 1980:
THE CHURCH IS FOUNDED ON THE APOSTLES AND THE PROPHETS
Paul is speaking to the Church. Now the Church of God was raised up primarily for two purposes: that God could call to lead the Church, apostles, the Church is founded on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, the prophets of the Old Testament; because no prophet in the New Testament has anything to do with infusing doctrine into the Church or with an administrative position in the Work of the Church. No prophet had anything to do with any of that; so, the prophets mean, the prophets of the Old Testament. They did not preach to Israel. Israel rejected their writings, ancient Israel. The writings of the prophets, beginning with Isaiah and even other prophets – no you could say with Moses for that matter, and with David in the Psalms. All were for the New Testament Church, believe it or not, and yet today they want to say that we are a New Testament Church; and we don’t want anything to do with that Old Testament.
Let me tell you this is the book of God. Now the Old Testament Church couldn’t proclaim the gospel. The Old Testament Church did not have the Holy Spirit, that’s true; but the prophets did and they were writing for the doctrines of the Church and much of Church doctrine comes from the writings of the prophets; Christ being the chief cornerstone and the Head of the Church. Now just keep that in the background as we begin to read what Paul is writing to one of the Churches.
The bolded portion above is not biblically correct. The Apostle Paul was a prophet and so seemingly was the evangelist Timothy. So those prophets did have administrative as well as doctrinal responsibilities.
The Indian diploma mill graduate in theology knows better than HWA! Stupid old man! He had no idea there would arise in the perilous end times the Greatest Prophet the church would ever see!
Just to make sure he did not lose his high status as a prophet, he ran to Aaron Dean begging him to legitimize him as a true prophet.
Furthermore, I did discuss Herbert W. Armstrong’s “no prophet” position with his long time aide, Aaron Dean (who HWA also ordained). Aaron Dean basically told me that Herbert W. Armstrong was annoyed by various ones who contacted him claiming to be a prophet and he wanted people to stop doing that. However, Aaron Dean also said that Herbert W. Armstrong was not intending to teach that there would be no more prophets or that they would not have a role in the church as we got closer to the end.
The Great Bwana Bob NEEDS for HWA to be wrong:
Of course, since the Two Witnesses prophesy (Revelation 11:3), it should be clear that Herbert W. Armstrong was not teaching that the people who would be the two witnesses could not have been alive in 1972 (especially since he felt that they would possibly fulfill their calling during his lifetime). Plus, as editor in chief of the publications of the old Radio and Worldwide Church of God, he did have items about prophets in the history of the Church of God published. Items that contradicted a statement he wrote about prophets not having administrative roles as Timothy did as did Melito of Sardis as did those called Paulicians that he had information published about.
As a side note, everything about the 1971-1975 debacle was one blatant lie after another. When caught with their pants down when nothing happened, and quickly resorted to saying: "HWA never predicted such a thing." They also resorted to lying that HWA never called himself an apostle or prophet. Gaslighting COG history is a full-time business!
The Great One next writes:
In absence of a clear apostle, a prophet, particularly an evangelistic one, would be expected to lead the most faithful in the Church of God.
You can quickly see where this is headed. Without an apostle alive in the church today, it has to have a prophet, and the Great Bwana Bob fulfills that department.
The Great One believes that a prophet must arise in the end times before the two witless witnesses arrive (Ron and Laura Weinland). It is his duty to announce to the world who those two witless ones are.
So, Herbert W. Armstrong felt that there would be prophecy BEFORE the two witnesses were given power, hence the need for one or more prophets.
The New Testament (e.g. Acts 2, 1 Corinthians 14, Revelation 11) makes it clear that there would be prophets in the latter days.
Bwana Bob equates himself to Herbert Armstrong and the "persecution" he faced. Everybody picks on Bwana Bob just like they did HWA.
Notice something else from the late Herbert W. Armstrong:
PERSECUTORS HAVE CALLED me a “false prophet.” Now how would you KNOW whether the accusation IS true- or false?Actually, it probably is not very important to you to know whether my persecutors are right or wrong, when they call me dirty names, hurl epithets, resort to innuendo, impute sinister motives, strive to discredit, attempt character assassination. What is important to YOU is whether what you read in The PLAIN TRUTH really is the truth – whether what you hear over The WORLD TOMORROW broadcast is true- not whether I , as an individual, am true or false.I think our readers know by now that we always say: ” DON’ T believe what we say because you believe in us.” We say ” Listen with open mind, without prejudice, then CHECK UP in your own Bible-prove whether it is true, and BELIEVE what you find proved!” I don’t seek to induce people to believe in ME- I seek to lead them to believe in JESUS CHRIST! (Armstrong HW. Personal from the Editor. Plain Truth, May 1966, pp. 2)
I have never been a false prophet and urge all to check out what I have taught with the Bible.
Because I am an imperfect human being and one may not agree with all of my views does NOT make me a false prophet.
Yes, you are! That is a fact.
He then trots out Herb again to legitimize his self-appointment:
Notice further that Herbert W. Armstrong also stated:
Joel 2:28-29 And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.So there is a time coming when God will start pouring out His spirit on human beings. … Day of Pentecost, 3000 were baptized. Peter preached a sermon. They were pricked in their hearts. God began to draw them. God was now… Remember He said, “I will pour out of my spirit on all flesh.” All right, there’s a duality of that. (Armstrong HW. Building The Temple. Sermon, February 14, 1981)
Yes, there was a duality to what Peter preached in Acts 2–and that duality is for our current time.
More of the "duality" crap that Armstrongite leaders like to prooftext with to make them look better in their follower's eyes.
The Great Bwana likes to pretend that Gaylyn Bonjour double-blessed him so that he could start a new group as a prophet. This "so-called" double blessing became something that Bonjour regretted. He told many in LCG that he had no idea that Bob would use it to lie about being ordained or to start a new group. This has been one of Bwana Bob's foundational lies.
He also tries to pawn off on gullible believers that he is able to channel dreams straight from God's mind to his.
Thank you for your question concerning visions or dreams. The Bible reveals that in times past servants of God were given visions and dreams for specific reasons and/or to convey special messages. … God has used this means of communication in the past and will do so again (Acts 2:17; Joel 2:28) (L052 Worldwide Church of God, 1989)
As the WCG did not publicly acknowledge any such dreams after that letter was sent, the interpretation must be that God would later use dreams (it should be mentioned that the original date of L052 was prior to 1986–hence it was not a change by the Tkach Administration).
This in no way was referring to Bob Thiel. These dreams are no more than delusions of a man who in an act of rebellion split off from the Living Church of God to start his own group. God was never part of this and certainly did NOT speak to him in dreams.
The all-knowing Great Bwana says again that Herb made mistakes about prophets. Bob is just like Flurry in that he either deletes or reinterprets HWA's writings to fit the self-imposed prophet status he unworthily claims.
In another attempt to yank our chains, he says this about HWA and the two witless witnesses. You can see why the Great Bwana bolded these words. He, in his delusional state of mind, thinks this is all about him:
Herbert W. Armstrong felt that the two witnesses, who will be prophets, were alive in 1984, and presumably, one or more was an adult by then.
Guess who was alive at that time? The Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel! The bullshit is so deep he can never shovel it all away.
It also needs to be understood that prophets do not have to perform public miracles to be genuine. John the Baptist was a prophet according to Jesus (Matthew 11:7-10), but he is not recorded as performing any public miracles. Actually, the Bible records, “John did no miracle” (John 10:41, KJV). Jesus told the Pharisees that an adulterous generation sought signs, beyond prophetic accuracy (Matthew 12:38-40) and obedience to God (cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-4).
Let me add that both the Bible and writings published by the old Radio Church of God show that prophets can also have administrative roles (e.g. see previous quote from Meredith RC. How Church Government Really WORKS. Good News, March 1964, pp. 4-5).
The Great Bwana has another excuse when it comes to how his Indian diploma mill "degree" in theology that we discovered was actually worthless (Thanks to Gavin Rumney). Even taking a few classes here and there at Ambassador and Fuller did not grant him a degree. The only "training" he has had is a bunch of poorly researched booklets, sermons, and his place at the feet of Rod Meredith.
As long as the Great Bwana is "most" accurate then we are supposed to believe him.
It also should be noted that while the Apostle Paul considered himself to be a prophet, not all of his speculative predictions were accurate. He once claimed:
10 I perceive that this voyage will end with disaster and much loss, not only of the cargo and ship, but also our lives (Acts 27:10).
And while his speculation was mostly accurate, it was not completely accurate, as there was no loss of lives. His position became completely accurate when he claimed to speak as God led him as opposed to his perceptions:
It also should be noted that while the Apostle Paul considered himself to be a prophet, not all of his speculative predictions were accurate. He once claimed:
10 I perceive that this voyage will end with disaster and much loss, not only of the cargo and ship, but also our lives (Acts 27:10).
And while his speculation was mostly accurate, it was not completely accurate, as there was no loss of lives. His position became completely accurate when he claimed to speak as God led him as opposed to his perceptions:
21 Men, you should have listened to me, and not have sailed from Crete and incurred this disaster and loss. 22 And now I urge you to take heart, for there will be no loss of life among you, but only of the ship. 23 For there stood by me this night an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I serve, 24 saying, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must be brought before Caesar; and indeed God has granted you all those who sail with you.’ 25 Therefore take heart, men, for I believe God that it will be just as it was told me. (Acts 27:21-25)
So, delays and speculations do not make one a false prophet. Stumbling does not make a leader false either, as according to the Apostle James:
1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. (James 3:1-2)
There is a difference between stumbling and being a false leader.
Bob is a false teacher. He teaches false doctrines, legalism, lying dreams, and denies the salvational work of the cross. He despises the cross and makes no bones about it.
Notice how he tap dances around the Bible verse about lying false prophets. It only takes one!
A leader is biblically and clearly a false prophet when one claims to speak on God’s behalf and gives a prophecy that does not happen:
21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ — 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:21)
(The above suggests that if God’s prophets make statements that they do not claim to be from the Lord, and are in error, perhaps like what they think someone will do, that God is saying that personal comments from prophets are not inspired and not the same as false statements from those while claiming to speak in the name of the Lord.)
Most important of all, at least for us who deny him, it really frosts his butt that we do not acknowledge him as a prophet. Poor little guy!
Truly, most people, even in the COGs, will not listen to a true prophet of God in this age. And, even when God grants power to His two witnesses, most in the world will not only not listen to them, they will be deceived enough to support an army that will fight against the returning Jesus Christ (Revelation 16:13-14; 19:11-19)!
I imagine if a REAL prophet arose many would follow him (or her). But, you Bob are NOT a true prophet. Never have been and never will be. Even the Living Church of God rejected you en masse! You are not even worthy of being one of the two witnesses,
He desperately continues:
A true prophet is one called of God (which you were not), teaches the same gospel that Jesus taught (which you do not), keeps the commandments of God (which you do not, he Bbile says you do not), AND has predictions that come to pass (of which you have not had happen and will never have happen). Jesus (Mark 1:14) and Paul (Acts 28:30-31) taught the gospel of the kingdom of God. Even if one appears to be “an angel from heaven,” unless the true gospel is being taught, Paul says that such a one should be “accursed” (Galatians 1:9).
He attempts to make Rod Meredith out to talk about his prophet status, which Meredith never did and best of all publicly rebuked Bob for his deceitful craftiness.
HWA never had all the truth and only partially revealed some of it. It is up to the Great Bwana Bob to complete that knowledge. The Great Bwana even knows more than Rod Meredith.
Unlike Herbert W. Armstrong who restored truths to the Philadelphia era, and Bob Thiel who added more details to those truths, etc. Dr. Meredith did not do that. Nor did he fulfill the prophetic office. Nor has anyone currently in LCG done so.
Anyway, no, HWA’s word do not make mincemeat of my prophetic role. Herbert W. Armstrong believed that there would be future prophets, Aaron Dean confirmed that, Roderick C. Meredith said that I might be one, and that had the concurrence of Richard Ames (who HWA ordained) and Dr. Douglas Winnail (who had some type of ordination when HWA was alive).
If Aaron Dean and Rod Meredith both confirmed that the Great Bwana truly was a prophet, then they are as mentally disturbed as Bob is.
Despite improper accusations from various ones on the internet that I am some type of a false prophet, to the best of my knowledge I have never once posted a false prediction (and I do try to indicate when something is speculation), nor do those critics actually post any “false” predictions that I supposedly made and provide proof that even one was false. Thus, those who love the truth will not listen to their false dismissals.
Oh, and he is God-ordained! What a crock of steaming doodoo! God no more ordained Bwana Bob than the so-called double blessing of Gaylyn Bonjour did. It was meant for a one-time moment, not to raise up one of the most pathetic COG group ever.
Furthermore, I did not anoint myself– LCG minister Gaylyn Bonjour anointed me with oil and prayed I would receive a double-portion of God’s Spirit (which he said was reminiscent of the passing of the mantle)–hence I am not self-ordained, but am God-ordained. Yet sadly, some so misunderstand the role of prophets in the New Testament that they would rather believe the lies about me than face the truth that the actual facts reveal. Elisha then received a “double-portion” (“two-portion” literally) of the gift that God had given Elijah (2 Kings 2:9-13). Elisha picked up the mantle of Elijah (2 Kings 2:13) which Elijah dropped and God wanted him to have (1 Kings 19:16-19), as he replaced Elijah as God’s top ecclesiastical authority on earth (cf. 1 Kings 19:16). Yet, for several years after picked Elisha up the mantle that Elijah dropped, Elijah was still alive. While many outside of the genuine Church of God seem to doubt this, this is verified by 2 Chronicles 21:5, 12-15.
Do not let pride or preconceived ideas get in the way of you accepting biblical truth. That, according to Jesus, is actually the biggest problem for most Christians in the end time per Revelation 3:14-22–most Christians refuse to fully “hear what the Spirit says to the churches” (Revelation 3:22).
Will you truly hear and take the proper steps related to matters such as prophets?
Pride has nothing to do with rejecting one of the greatest false teachers and prophets of the COG today. Wisdom for decades of being the COG and watching one liar after another set themselves up as the one true church leader with each and every one of them denying Christ as they bow down at the altar of Moses.
Bob Thiel is a false teacher and a false prophet.
31 comments:
Would a true prophet declare that people "die at the time which is best for them"...when none of the victims Jim Jones hoodwinked passed away in Guyana at their "best time"?
Randy Gregory & his son & Mr. Diekmeier & the others shot by Terry Ratzman at LCG in 2005 hardly died at "the time which is best for them". Neither did Amy Allwine or Morgan Montgomery or Esperance Labidou. Nor did the 38 Heaven's Gate victims under tutelage of Marshall Applewhite waiting for glorious Hale-Bopp comet in 1997.
No one in the military dies at "the best time either" especially if COG teaches conscientious objection.
None of the ones killed in many mass school shootings died at some kind of "time that was best for them". Why would a prophet say they did?
Big Bwana Bob's boasts become BORING beyond belief!
The fixed times of God (Lev 23:2 - mistranslated "feasts") are three - Ex 23:14-16, and the weekly sabbath and the annual sabbaths in the 7th month.
Tithing was never commanded on money income, and the change of the law - Heb 7:12 was its removal (same Greek word for "change" and "removing" in Heb 12:27 KJV), not a reversion as HWA taught to a supposed "original" law that I cannot find anywhere in scripture.
Therefore not everything HWA taught and Bob teaches now is scriptural and so they are a false apostle and a false prophet.
BBB apparently states
:””. AND has predictions that come to pass””
Comment BBBs use of the capitalized AND plus the plural word ‘ predictions’ means he is adamant that more than one have proven to be true.
May we be informed of these and the details so we might examine his allegations of being a prophet.
Without an apostle alive in the church today, it has to have a prophet
So says Bob. Well, Bob, please give us a list of the prophets who were in the church prophesying from the time of the Apostle John to the time of the Apostle Herb.
The only reason the church "has to have" a prophet is because without this idea Bob would have to admit he's just another mentally ill quack making his living by selling snake oil supplements to the gullible, and that he is no more super-special than thousands of widows and orphans and other ordinary folks who've remained faithful to their God over the centuries.
To say that people "die at the time which is best for them" is to say that the god of this present age has people's best interests in mind. It completely negates the teaching regarding need for the White Throne Judgment, which the ACOGs say is the time when most of mankind will, under God's rule, accept Him as Savior, having experienced the death and devastation of Satan's time of mis-rule of the earth.
If Bob is a prophet, he is a prophet of Satan. We know that Satan sometimes gives his followers a limited prophetic understanding to the degree he himself has that understanding. Yet it is not the clear and unmistakable prophetic proclamation that God gives to His true prophets, nor does it serve God's purposes. Yes, we had better take seriously the possibility that Bob REALLY IS a prophet, but that he is a prophet of Satan, not of God.
HWA might even have said a few more things about false prophets, as per this video: https://www.facebook.com/100082228671822/videos/463526989953480/
Maybe Ive forgotten something somewhere, but I do not recall any point in history where someone was "accidentally" made a prophet by someone else. In fact I dont remember anyone actually ordaining anyone a prophet besides Elijah picking his successor, and Elijah knew full well what he was doing at the moment.
Of course, in Bob's case, he just seized on an opportunity in hopes of getting the keys to LCG and then had a hissyfit when they said "Nay".
And how could Adam & Eve have died eventually at their "best time"...when God originally told them their best time to die was : "never" (i.e. if they'd heeded the instructions they broke).
predictions that come to pass
Bob's trick is that he is constantly writing about what "may" happen or what will "possibly" happen. Then, if it doesn't happen, he takes no blame for his speculations, but if any of his "may" or "possibly" items comes to pass, it retroactively becomes a "prediction" -- "LOOK, THERE'S A PROPHET!"
Comment was made that "prophet," falsely so-called Bob Thiel saying that Bob "...trots out Herb again to legitimize his self-appointment: and writes the following:
Notice further that Herbert W. Armstrong also stated:
Joel 2:28-29...And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
So there is a time coming when God will start pouring out His spirit on human beings. … Day of Pentecost, 3000 were baptized. Peter preached a sermon. They were pricked in their hearts. God began to draw them. God was now… Remember He said, “I will pour out of my spirit on all flesh.” All right, there’s a duality of that. (Armstrong HW. Building The Temple. Sermon, February 14, 1981)
Yes, there was a duality to what Peter preached in Acts 2–and that duality is for our current time..."
******
That duality stuff belongs in that photo of the huge pile, and it is not "for our current time," and thinking it is would be the thoughts of a false prophet or one who lies. Which is it? Both?
Quoting only Joel 2:28-29, like some here/there a little to form some satanic theory using duality, is foolish. Why not get all of the context of Joel 2:28-32. Verse 31, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.", talks about the day of the LORD, which will not occur until Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit and goes out to deceive the entire world again, even causing the take-over of Jerusalem and causing wars worldwide again. Satan isn't that angry now, but he will be then, because that vile, evil, thing will not exit that pit with a repentant attitude.
So, Bob Thiel best forget them visions he is striving to apply to "our current time." He, along with the hirelings of the former WCG should also forget about their "very soon" to return Jesus to reign on earth (with Bob Thiel?) for 1,000 years.
The fulfillment of the vision of Joel 2 is a long-way off. That ought to be obvious by now. Think about it. Who hasn't heard theories about another Jesus to return "very soon, in 2-5 years, 3-5 years, etc.?
Bob Thiel finally warns us: “Do not let pride or preconceived ideas get in the way of you accepting biblical truth.”
Oh, if only Bob Thiel would take his own advice, b/c he appears to be full of pride and preconceived ideas about himSELF being some “impotent” one! What does Bob need to consider about his pride? Job 41:34 and 2 Tim 2:26, for starters.
Prideful Bob Thiel, with preconceived ideas, does not even properly understand the true meaning of one of God's true prophets (Joel 2:28-32, especially verse 31), and Bob wants us to yield to him? Is this where the word "duh" should be applied?
But as the conclusion of this post stated: “Bob Thiel is a false teacher and a false prophet” … as time will continue to tell...
John
Power. It's something that you (one) and others can feel and realize when it's present. It does not matter if one claims to have it, or have a story explaining how it came to them. Power makes the things to which one aspires actually happen. Often, the process seems effortless, or to have come au naturel, by osmosis, or evolution.
There is a vacuum amongst all of the seekers of the conch, or those desiring any possible "mantle" of Armstrongism, if indeed there is any such thing. Because of that vacuum, Armstrongism continues to contract. Bob Thiel is not the only one to claim titles. Most of the self-appointed candidates have attempted to claim the title "Apostle" because that was part of the Zeitgeist of HWA. Had they actually been valid successors, the contraction of their domains would have reversed themselves, and growth perceivable to others than themselves would be self-evident. Whether the 30% figure was bogus or real, anybody with eyes knew that the old WCG was growing, not contracting.
It is a tradition amongst some Christians, to fake the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That is commonly done, although none would admit to it. People attempt it with divine healing, with prophecy, and with glossolalia. HWA was such an illusionist, primarily claiming the gift of understanding prophecy. That was his hook, the hook of the old "Radio" Church of God. As in the case of the subject of the rock classic "Road Runner", thousands of people felt that they were in touch with the modern world as they drove late at night. They had their radio on! But instead of music, they heard someone who seemed to have a grasp of everything going on around them because of his intense "knowledge" of prophecy. He snuck into their lives because his avid listeners came to believe that he was the gatekeeper for whatever was happening. It was literally and figuratively captivating! They validated him with their wallets and behavioral modifications, as they lined up in droves.
The real miracle of Armstrongism was that it did not simply die in 1975 when this spiritual "Wizard of Oz" was unmasked and exposed. Exposed, but yet suddenly attaining an entirely new level of fame and credibility to a core audience consisting of the world's luminaries and wielders of power. Impressive, yes, but where is the lasting influence of his activities today? That also petered out, as had 1975, as HWA's second 15 minutes of fame concluded.
I've pointed to power as the missing ingredient, and have provided an example of someone who plainly had some degree of it, and then pointed out the vacuum which now exists in the aftermath of the illusion. We've all been left wanting. Why someone would even desire to be an heir to such failure is beyond me, However, some do. They've had decades to begin manifesting the power, yet the contraction continues to be unreversed. Bob Thiel wishes to be acknowledged. So do others. You don't get recognized as a prophet by pointing to someone who has supposedly ordained you. It's not a function of a quasi-military chain of command. That doesn't even work at 100% in the military. Not all generals are exceptional! What gets someone recognized as a prophet is power! The power of being right at important junctures. Vision, accuracy, natural leadership! Thankfully, nobody with the missing ingredients has manifested themselves within the jetsam and flotsam of Armstrongism. If they had, people would be lining up just as they did for HWA, and the scam would be experiencing revival.
BB
8:17 exactly describes the goings-on
BB: "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power"-Dan 8:24. !!!!!!?????
Here's another good excerpt from his page today...
"When we denounced Disney on YouTube for pushing the acceptance of sin and perversion on children a while back, instead of censoring Disney, the pagans at YouTube censored and removed our video."
I don't know what exactly he's referring to re Disney (I didn't watch his video), but here's teeny tiny Bob surprised that "the pagans at Youtube" (?!) didn't go after Disney on his say-so.
I don't know exactly how you might have intended for your scripture reference to be applied, 11:58.
The only way I can reply is to state that I don't believe that Herbert W. Armstrong accomplished what he did through the power of God. I believe he did it all with his own talents, which were similar to those of the industrial moguls who built empires as the Industrial Revolution progressed. Lacking capital, HWA had to turn to something intangible, which would not cost him any start up money.
He used a religious philosophy brought home by his dear wife, Loma, a philosophy he originally thought ridiculous, but later realized its value in feeding his family.
These fools, the current ACOG leaders and Bob Thiel, still somehow believe that God was behind the whole process. They are waiting for God to infuse power and to cause it all to rise up once again, and they are all contracting and failing because God has nothing to do with it.
I'm hoping you "get" that, and that that's what you meant, but your reference still applies, just a little differently.
BB
@ RSK, a quick YouTube search will find DOZENS of videos criticizing Disney's hyper-pushy pro-LGBT agenda. It is patently obvious that YouTube isn't censoring video creators simply for reporting on Disney's antics or for expressing Christian and/or moral opposition to those antics. So it's clear that YouTube didn't remove Bob's video because it criticized Disney. If we could see Bob's video I suspect we would find that Bob was reporting falsehoods and advocating mistreatment of LGBT people (unlike the ACOG position which says only God can enact vengeance). Or maybe they thought it was an offensive and inappropriately sick parody with an effeminate and obviously gay speaker claiming to be anti-gay while hurling abuse at the gays.
5:43. You are correct that there are lots of videos critical of Disney and its agenda. Bob is either outright lying about the reason or is telling a half-truth while concealing the real reason. Knowing Bob, he opened his obnoxious holier-than-thou mouth and said something really really stupid.
Dr Bob,
It doesn't take a Dr Phil to recognize that you have a real problem. Get some help before it's too late.
What a lot of people dont realize is that its now possible to have a computer analyze a video clip and create a transcript automatically - no human viewing the video is required. So the algorithm may have dinged him for something automatically with no "pagans at youtube" required.
But I'm just amused that Bob's titanic ego really thought he was going to sway the powers that be at Youtube with his crappy videos.
And why does he call them "pagans"?
The Wiccan community refers to itself openly as "pagans", but I don't know of any major Wiccan presence at either Disney, or Youtube.
Bob still embraces many of the Armstrong shibboleths, many of which only have meaning within the Armstrong community. Scientologists also have a set of keywords with altered meanings. Bob should try to purge his vocabulary of such words. If he believes in the Germans, he's got to know that they'd be taking notes, right?
I consider Globalism part of the lasting impact that the American Empire tried to build through the UN, World bank, IMF etc system...
. and HWA was one of its messengers and weavers at a time when it still only had been an "idea"....... (as it already had been for a 1000 years amongst the European topbrass, who had been aspiring globalists since the Roman Empire...
Most of you have forgotten the importance of the Herald, forgotten are the times that it took 45 minutes to even establish a telephone call between Cairo and Los Angeles that broke off after 6 minutes.... and cost a fortune...
And bonds were forged in person..... Rather through Teams meeting.....
Nck
and HWA was one of its messengers and weavers at a time when it still only had been an "idea
In Herbert Armstrong's writings going back to the beginning he was always criticizing America and predicting its demise because of sins, this being part of his British Israel notion. It was destined to be taken into captivity by the Beast and the ten nations. I doubt this fake apostle had any government function to promote globalism for these reasons.
6:18 said: " I doubt this fake apostle had any government function to promote globalism for these reasons."
Herb never was an agent of the government. That is deluded thinking by NCK and is just delusional as the stuff Gerald Flurry and Bob Thiel say.
6:18
Of course HWA did not FOR the government, I NEVER EVER said that.
Why do you even bother to comment when you never studied the subject.
The reason I am not sourcing to "simple" persons like you is that you will up end up in a mental hospital doing the search.
Even explaining simple concepts like "false flag" or "psy opps" are proven concepts and potentially proving you wrong. Yet it would send you down the rabbit hole and that is not my purpose..
Also I doubt you have ever studied the manner how the cabal around Governor Reagan mobilized the Christian Right, New Christian Right and whatever group or pastors building a coalition with to get him elected from mid sixties on.......A bit in the same manner as the Mujahedeen was mobilized to fight the commies in afghanistan....yet this is a can of worms, another topic and way above your head although its public information...You gotto remember Ronald Reagan was not particularly known for his Christian policies early in his career before they deliberately made it enter the mainstream........
And here we have this single TV Ministry from California raking in m\ore income and buying more mediatime than ALL of the other pastors combined.....
nck
calm down nck if you like to believe fake herbie did some special stuff for world peace or globalism either by himself or whatever no problems. As for me this Armstrong guy was a false apostle and his meanderings around the globe meant nothing from a scriptural point of view.
Herbert Armstrong was simply a religious salesman who moved from pots and pans to the bible. He was astute and grew big. He was a liar and false promoter of prophecy. Fact he got big proves nothing moHe came and went as many businesses do
If you can believe Billy Graham did a few things to sway the American Public to conservatism - with 100 percent fulfillment under the Trump government-, why then can you not believe it for one with 5 times Grahams media budget.
It's a very simple calculation for one in the industry - like BBDO working for the church during the Reagan years.
I have personally witnessed one of the smallest of offshoots copying a few small things of the Armstrong Empire a couple of years ago.
The naive unsuspecting goodydoers.suddenly found themselves sitting in the heart of the conservative Flank of the republican and Ian nternational power network..... Mcdonnelldouglas jet traders kindly introducing themselves.
Thats the moment I realized how naive these people were, and realized how really educated persons in the WCG hierarchy could have leveraged HWA's small talk with 300 actual World Leaders.
Nck
I do not know of any such presence at Youtube either. Now in Armstrongism (at least as I recall), we might have done the big handwrings about "paganism" and "pagan practices", but directly referring to someone contemporary as "pagan" doesnt seem like the usual context. Buy maybe I am wrong.
Anon, Saturday, June 22, 2024 at 11:58:00 AM PDT, said:
"...BB: "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power"-Dan 8:24Open in Logos Bible Software (if available). !!!!!!?????..."
******
But another missing ingredient is revealed in Zech 4:6.
"...Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
And is that missing ingredient more important than power?
Time will tell...
John
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