David C. Pack's Wacky World 2

September, 11, 2013

What David C. Pack  Eliminated Speaks So Loud We Can't Hear What He is Now Saying

I believe it is important to remember what Dave Pack wants you to forget.  After all, he said he'll want you to forget this stuff, that he ever said it in the first place or that he didn't mean it to mean what you thought he meant it to mean.

Remember he said...

"I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."

Well maybe Dave Pack did not go anywhere back then, but he has since and so let's be reminded of what we must forget was ever thought about the largest,  most complex and yet simple to decode prophecy about David C. Pack and the Return of the Disfellowshipped by God under one leader (guess who?) in the Bible.

I admit, I am not a brethren in the RCG, but someone has to do what Dave asked or he's going to deceive us all.  He told us that.  (I love that quote).   So, if no one else is going to remember it well enough to quote it right back to Dave, I guess I will for at least future posterity in such matters. 

12)   Eliminated The readers of the Haggai prophecy announcements (this is #21) who believed them would be the most disillusioned and the biggest candidates to QUIT everything if God did not return His people to one House this year! This would work directly against what God is doing—directly opposite His overall purpose.

It is easy to see why this was eliminated from the original 24 reasons in the original Announcement 21 The Time is Now!  Dave understands at least the price of being wrong, which he was.  It remains to be seen how many are dis-illusioned, which is a good thing, because who wants to be "illusioned."  Sticking with Dave is to be "Illusioned."  And yes, it would work against the purposes of RCG

13)  Eliminated Further desolation (Hag. 1:11; 2:16-17) from God of the splinter “houses” would practically wipe out the few remaining senior leaders in them. This includes pastors and elders, all of whom are NEEDED TO CARRY OUT THE BIG WORK!


Dave wanted those senior leaders to come over to him so badly  and further delay would take them out of the picture before this could come about.  Dave must now believe that these senior men will live longer and have more time to still come over to him.  Or perhaps he has given up on this ever happening, which I am sure is the safer bet.


14) Eliminated  The onset of all future years would never come with clarity—with any certainty! Would God leave thousands who are now aware of this prophecy in such a condition? Hardly.

Oops can't say this anymore!  Dave has now stated that even more clarity is coming after the screw up in "timing."  Things never before seen are now going to be seen so that's clarity alright.  Thus, this has to go.  Obviously this years failures don't muddy the waters.  They clear them up. Just you watch.

15) Eliminated Next, for those who will see the value of how to pursue spiritual matters, there is this: After fervently seeking God about it, not one reason the prophecy is off this year ever emerged in the minds of even one of our 16 Headquarters ministers! I (we) have NEVER prayed about, studied over, meditated on, fasted about and counseled with other ministers regarding a subject more than this one—in fact no other subject is even close! -

And isn't this a sad one?  If we leave this one Dave's crew of 16 kiss ups look like...well...kiss ups.  Dave has now learned that everyone agreeing with you is not a sign of  truth.  It's a sign of...kissing up, probably to keep status and jobs.  Dave has also learned that just because you pray, study, meditate, fast and ask other kiss..., ministers about the topic, doesn't mean you're going to get the right answer.  "Woe be unto you when all men speak good of you" and all that.  So we have to vote no on this being on how one pursues spiritual matters ever again.

16) Eliminated Similarly, as questions emerged throughout our pursuit of truth with the many details of the prophecy, so many of these details kept coming clear as direct answers to prayer. And these were often immediate.



This one has to go because once again, Dave has learned what we all knew ourselves, that details that keep coming like clear answers to prayer are no sign of anything.  You simply end up with a very detailed mistake.


17) Eliminated Recall Haggai 1:13: “Then spoke Haggai the Lord’s messenger in the Lord’s message unto the people…” Haggai is the messenger to God’s people, with what is an all-important message from God. Would not God make clear in such a unique message He describes as “the Lord’s message unto His people” the correct date for action? What kind of message would it be if people did not know WHEN TO CARRY IT OUT?

Here we now see that Dave has learned once and for all that "A" with God does not always lead to Dave's "B".   I would think  since the people still don't know when to carry it out, the message was flawed to begin with.  It might do Dave some good to consider that the message of Haggai never  had anything to do with him, RCG or the Splinters.  He made that all up in his head and this is why there is confusion as to the "when."   "Never" is the answer to the "when".

19) Eliminated Imagine God not revealing the year the remnant is coming—but only the day and month. Vast amounts of time would have been wasted by His leaders studying and preparing for something that was not imminent. Would God put His Church in such a position?

I can imagine it now Dave.  Can you?   I'm pretty sure you even got the day and month wrong. Evidently God has put 'His Church" in this position, maybe just for fun.  Who knows?

20) Eliminated  Of interest, God revealed to me during ELUL four years ago my role as the modern Joshua.

Evidently not of interest at all and eliminating this may mean Dave will have to rethink his "Joshua" fantasy.  I bet the world "Elul" will never feel good again to Dave!  It also reveals that Dave now has to wonder just what God did or did not reveal to him.  I'm going with did not.

21) Eliminated Also of interest, I and The Restored Church of God learned about the New Testament remnant last ELUL (August). Let’s ask: Would timing of when we were shown the prophecy not be tied to its unique timing of fulfillment during the very next available ELUL?

This one violates eliminated reason 20 because Dave knew FOUR YEARS AGO he was Joshua but kept it to himself until now. He should have revealed this the very next available ELUL!   Again, evidently it's not tied to anything Dave tied it to.  So this one had to go.  Dave is going to have to stop tying the wrong knots on his sailboat which seems blown around by various winds of doctrines he makes up.

"And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me..."
David C. Pack

So I did...
Dennis C. Diehl

September 10, 2013
Dennis Muses: "I never said that...."

 

Wonders in the Wiggle Room

The Fine Art of Altering Church History

 

 

From David C. Pack's Original , Pre August 31, 2013 Announcement 21

"The Time Is NOW!

Now comes a series of reasons Haggai’s prophecy will be fulfilled this year. They are summarized, with only a very little detail added. More could be said of each, but the descriptions given will suffice to those willing to think just a little about them. Realize there are over 30 more reasons—many of them very powerful—that I have left off the list because some will be covered later or because they would only be recognized as proofs by our Headquarters ministry (involving various miracles, some big). Readers would be largely unable to appreciate them as proofs:

1) Understanding the meaning of the prophecy, starting with Haggai 1:2, automatically carries the requirement of taking a position on it. This cannot be avoided after one learns it. Think about this. The position of the remnant is that “the time is not come” to rebuild God’s House. Are they right or wrong? God indicts their thinking, meaning they are wrong! If the prophecy is not now, the net effect would be that God agrees with the remnant’s view. Worse, so should those currently in God’s one Church because they now know the meaning of the prophecy. Think this through. One does or does not agree with the remnant. God does not—and we do not. The time is now! Let’s go further.

2) Directly related, why (or how) would God command the remnant to “Go…build the House!” (Hag. 1:8)—but not mean NOW? How could He mean some undetermined future year? Why would God tell them (twice) to “consider their ways”—but not mean that they should do this now? Try to imagine God saying, “Consider your ways, but take your time. There’s no hurry. In fact, take years to think it over—even though you have been out of My Church for 20 years! You don’t have to DO anything now.”

3) Also related, if God waited 2,500 years to reveal the prophecy’s meaning (3,000 years when various related much older Psalms are considered), is not His waiting done? Does His revealing it not signal that He has reached the time to fulfill it rather than having reached a point one, two or three years out?

4) Next, why would God wait longer? What would He wait for? The remnant is absolutely ripe for deliverance.

5) Internally, and this is no small thing, God’s Church is truly ready to expand the Work in a BIG WAY. The prophecy features this as the MAIN PURPOSE of the remnant returning! Without the prophecy’s fulfillment, this expansion would be delayed one year—or more! Why would God notify His Church of the prophecy’s existence at the very same time our staff is ready, our websites are ready, our literature is ready and even God’s college is ready for more students if the prophecy were not imminent? Why would God notify His Church if HE were not ready?

6) Related to this, the buildings on our campus can very soon handle significantly more staff than we have now. This is already true without the other two buildings scheduled for completion in the late fall. However, this extra size works perfectly if the prophecy occurs this year.

7) Also related, but separate, our infrastructure is ready to receive and serve a much larger flock this fall! This includes field ministry being ready, but also other things.

8) Maturing interest from many in the world due to one year of explosive television expansion requires many more laborers in the ministry by this autumn.

9) The Restored Church of God is experiencing an AWESOME period of growth and development at this time—in the runup period just prior to the prophecy’s fulfillment. This is putting it mildly! To us, this is powerful indication that we are on the right track for this year—that God is not only pleased with His Church, but that He is helping it get ready.

10) If the prophecy did not happen this year, the remnant would remain another year (or more) undergoing ever worsening false ways. Worse off, they would have a commensurate shorter time to spiritually recover before the Tribulation. Think worse condition, less time to recover.

11) If reunification occurred next year (or any year after), those with God’s Spirit would have one more year cut off from God’s Church. This carries the potential for more to quench the Holy Spirit (I Thes. 5:19) and lose salvation.

12)   Elimintaed The readers of the Haggai prophecy announcements (this is #21) who believed them would be the most disillusioned and the biggest candidates to QUIT everything if God did not return His people to one House this year! This would work directly against what God is doing—directly opposite His overall purpose.

13)  Eliminated Further desolation (Hag. 1:11; 2:16-17) from God of the splinter “houses” would practically wipe out the few remaining senior leaders in them. This includes pastors and elders, all of whom are NEEDED TO CARRY OUT THE BIG WORK!

14) Eliminated  The onset of all future years would never come with clarity—with any certainty! Would God leave thousands who are now aware of this prophecy in such a condition? Hardly.

15) Eliminated Next, for those who will see the value of how to pursue spiritual matters, there is this: After fervently seeking God about it, not one reason the prophecy is off this year ever emerged in the minds of even one of our 16 Headquarters ministers! I (we) have NEVER prayed about, studied over, meditated on, fasted about and counseled with other ministers regarding a subject more than this one—in fact no other subject is even close!

16) Eliminated Similarly, as questions emerged throughout our pursuit of truth with the many details of the prophecy, so many of these details kept coming clear as direct answers to prayer. And these were often immediate.

17) Eliminated Recall Haggai 1:13: “Then spoke Haggai the Lord’s messenger in the Lord’s message unto the people…” Haggai is the messenger to God’s people, with what is an all-important message from God. Would not God make clear in such a unique message He describes as “the Lord’s message unto His people” the correct date for action? What kind of message would it be if people did not know WHEN TO CARRY IT OUT?

18)Now Point 12  Since the apostasy, God had not wanted the remnant back in His Church, but now He does. He would first reveal the remnant to His leader, then tell him how they would return, and finally that He meant NOW. This was the order in which these things became apparent.

19) Eliminated Imagine God not revealing the year the remnant is coming—but only the day and month. Vast amounts of time would have been wasted by His leaders studying and preparing for something that was not imminent. Would God put His Church in such a position?

20) Eliminated  Of interest, God revealed to me during ELUL four years ago my role as the modern Joshua.

21) Eliminated Also of interest, I and The Restored Church of God learned about the New Testament remnant last ELUL (August). Let’s ask: Would timing of when we were shown the prophecy not be tied to its unique timing of fulfillment during the very next available ELUL?

22) Now Point 13We might ask: does the DEVIL know the prophecy is on? For those who understand how the devil works—that he counterfeits EVERYTHING God does—a variety of counterfeit theories have recently appeared about how God is going to reunite His people. Should not the devil be expected to do this at the time it would cause the most confusion? You will soon see that most of these theories are coming from men standing on the wrong side of this prophecy.

23) Now Point 14  With God’s people split up, it is now almost impossible to do a powerful Work. (This might be the one area where the splinter leaders would agree.) God’s Church is largely stymied in working with both brethren and the world because of the confusion and deception from top leaders about where God’s Church is, who has the truth, who is carrying on after Mr. Armstrong, who is doing the true Work, etc. (Reread #22.) There is no other way to proceed than for God to remove leaders who have lulled with deceit many thousands who were blind (Rev. 3:17) to begin with.

24) Now Point 15 World conditions cry out for a big Work NOW!!!—not one or more years from now.

I repeat: There are many more reasons for a 2013 fulfillment, with a few of a personal nature—and others involving God moving miraculously to reveal crucial things at certain times within an extraordinarily complex prophecy that involves hundreds of verses. I have not included all of these reasons because others would likely not accept them as legitimate. They are, however, on MY much longer list (now 56 total). And these reasons stand on bedrock in the eyes of ALL our Headquarters ministers.


From David C. Packs Updated, Altered, Erased and Redacted New Announcement 21 Post August 31, 2013

"The Time Is Imminent!

Now comes a series of reasons the fulfillment of Haggai’s prophecy cannot be far off. They are summarized, with only a very little detail added. More could be said of each, but the descriptions given will suffice to those willing to think just a little about them:

1) Understanding the meaning of the prophecy, starting with Haggai 1:2, automatically carries the requirement of taking a position on it. This cannot be avoided after one learns it. Think about this. The position of the remnant is that “the time is not come” to rebuild God’s House. Are they right or wrong? God indicts their thinking, meaning they are wrong! If the prophecy is not soon, the net effect would be that God agrees with the remnant’s view. Worse, so should those currently in God’s one Church because they now know the meaning of the prophecy. Think this through. One does or does not agree with the remnant. God does not—and we do not. Let’s go further.

2) Directly related, why (or how) would God command the remnant to “Go…build the House!” (Hag. 1:8)—but somehow mean many years from now? Why would God tell them (twice) to “consider their ways”—but not mean that they should do this now? Try to imagine God saying, “Consider your ways, but take your time. There’s no hurry. In fact, take years to think it over—even though you have been out of My Church for 20 years! You don’t have to DO anything now.”

3) Also related, if God waited 2,500 years to reveal the prophecy’s meaning (3,000 years when various related much older Psalms are considered), is not His waiting done? Does His revealing it not signal that He has reached the time to fulfill it rather than having reached a point one, two or three years out?

4) Next, why would God wait longer? What would He wait for? The remnant is ripe for deliverance.

5) Internally, and this is no small thing, God’s Church is truly ready to expand the Work in a BIG WAY. The prophecy features this as the MAIN PURPOSE of the remnant returning!

6) Related to this, the buildings on our campus can very soon handle significantly more staff than we have now. This is already true without the other two buildings scheduled for completion in the late fall.

7) Also related, but separate, our infrastructure is ready to receive and serve a much larger flock! This includes field ministry being ready, but also other things.

8) Maturing interest from many in the world due to one year of explosive television expansion requires many more laborers in the ministry in the near future.

9) The Restored Church of God is experiencing an AWESOME period of growth and development at this time—in the runup period just prior to the prophecy’s fulfillment. This is putting it mildly! To us, this is powerful indication that we are on the right track—that God is not only pleased with His Church, but that He is helping it get ready.

10) For each year that passes before the prophecy’s fulfillment, the remnant would remain another year (or more) undergoing ever worsening false ways. Worse off, they would have a commensurate shorter time to spiritually recover before the Tribulation. Think worse condition, less time to recover.

11) Altered Similarly, those with God’s Spirit would have one more year cut off from God’s Church. This carries the potential for more to quench the Holy Spirit (I Thes. 5:19) and lose salvation.

12) Was Point 18 in old Since the apostasy, God had not wanted the remnant back in His Church, but now He does. He would first reveal the remnant to His leader, then tell him how they would return, and finally that He meant soon. This was the order in which these things became apparent.

13) Formerly point 22 We might ask: does the DEVIL know the prophecy is on in the near term? For those who understand how the devil works—that he counterfeits EVERYTHING God does—a variety of counterfeit theories have recently appeared about how God is going to reunite His people. Should not the devil be expected to do this at the time it would cause the most confusion? You will soon see that most of these theories are coming from men standing on the wrong side of this prophecy.

14) Was point 23 With God’s people split up, it is now almost impossible to do a powerful Work. (This might be the one area where the splinter leaders would agree.) God’s Church is largely stymied in working with both brethren and the world because of the confusion and deception from top leaders about where God’s Church is, who has the truth, who is carrying on after Mr. Armstrong, who is doing the true Work, etc. (Reread #22.) There is no other way to proceed than for God to remove leaders who have lulled with deceit many thousands who were blind (Rev. 3:17) to begin with.

15) Was point 24 World conditions cry out for a big Work NOW!!!—not years from now.

Some summary review. Since the prophecy has been revealed, brethren have new knowledge. They know God disagrees with the remnant’s decision that it is not yet time to come together and build His House. With knowledge comes responsibility (Jms. 4:17; Heb. 10:26).

Could not agree more and now that we know the simple complex Haggai Prophecy did not come to pass as presented, the responsible thing to do is apologize.

September 10, 2013
Restored Church of God Members Deceived Into Thinking David C. Pack Never Set Any Dates

For many weeks, David C. Pack set about presenting his ultimate prophecy about the great coming reunification of all the Churches of God under his own superfantabulous tent.  That prophecy also included his specific promise that three COG leaders would die by a specific date.  Pack admitted he knew specifically who these three were as did The Sixteen.

When Dave's prophesied event failed to happen, Dave was stunned. How could his god lie to him?  What had he done wrong to irritate his god so much that he failed to keep Dave's utterances?  After a few days of wearing sack cloth and ashes, Dave immediately scrubbed certain dates and promises from his original posts.  Now when any RCG members goes to those letters they can state that Dave NEVER made such promises because it is plainly not there.

We all know for a fact that Dave never got on his knees and repented of his ludicrous prophecies.  Dave is incapable of sin and has admitted over and over that he searches himself for sin and can't find any.  Since his god also did not speak to him, Dave had to edit his prophecies in order to justify his god in not making the great reunification happening.

Dave will never admit he was wrong. He will never admit that he blatantly lied to his members and to the public.  The Sixteen, those loyal ministers who had their "eyes washed" will continue to stand by his side lying for Dave.  Dale Schurter, Larry McElroy and Wadsworth RCG pastor Gregory Kaidannek will continue to defend the false prophet that their "holy" bible tells them to reject.  These men along with David C. Pack are men without honor.
 Bob Theil has a excerpt letter up on his blog from an RCG member who denies that Dave Pack ever set any dates. 

09/09/13 p.m. Apparently, many of those in RCG are in denial about what has been happening. Got the following as part of an email today:

A friend of mine, is now attending with him and says that he didnt say that it would occur on that day. That people are misunderstanding him. I read it and he said it. Now, Dave-Pack had removed it and is saying something different. My friend says to me show me the proof.

This all reminds me of the COG members who to this day also deny that HWA and other COG minsters ever set any dates in 1971, 1972 and 1975.   Members are so blindly loyal that they cannot perceive their leaders to be capable of error.  That attitude comes from having pounded into them the concept that all COG leaders are directly under Jesus Christ in government and God cannot make a mistake.

What these members fail to realize is that their leaders are not loyal to them and could care less if they defend them.  Loyalty is a one way street in Armstrongism. It is from the members upward.  It is not from the top down, as true servant leadership should be.  COG leaders like Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry will continue to lie to the members and be disloyal to them till the day they die.





September 9, 2013
Dennis noticing some Waggle in the Wiggle

This ain't Rocket Science Folks...Oops, This is Rocket Science Folks

David C Pack's Pre-August 31, 2013 Comments on the simplicity and non-complicated nature of the Haggai Prophecy about Himself and RCG

"God Reveals Secrets

Before continuing we must also grasp something repeated from before. I am neither a prophet nor have I any self-prescribed authority to bring any prophecies. What will be shown is entirely GOD’S prophecy—from HIS WORD—explained and conveyed through the only office He ever uses to bring biblical truth to His Church (Acts 2:42; Eph. 2:20). The Bible warns that “no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” (II Pet. 1:20). But God does work through His chosen servants. In fact, He never reveals His Plan through anyone else. The many sermons I have given, including much of what you have read and will read, bring GOD’S interpretation of phrases, symbols and terms that He uses, not my private opinions. The reader will find that a crucial part of Zechariah holds powerful keys, but was written in code. But nothing within it is complicated. Each verse has a clear explanation if we just allow the Bible—meaning GOD!—to interpret the meaning through other scriptures. The “code” it is written in becomes easily unlocked."

 

David C Packs Post August 31, 2013 comments on the complicated and puzzling nature of a the same highly complicated Haggai Prophecy about himself and RCG

"Mr. Armstrong puzzled and puzzled and puzzled over certain much less complicated prophecies. He often said that things he learned came over time—not all right away, or even close in some cases. There are points we learned “late” in what is an enormously complex prophecy. We knew from early on in our pursuit of the truth that this prophecy did not carry with it the kind of time that Mr. Armstrong always had to properly sort through prophecies—ones that, however great in magnitude as we know some are, were simpler to understand."



September 9, 2013
Dennis Muses:  "Giving up the Ghosts..."

Just What Do You Mean

"God Haunted"?

Brutus and the Ghost of Caesar

haunt (hônt, hnt)

v. haunt·ed, haunt·ing, haunts

v.tr.

1. To inhabit, visit, or appear to in the form of a ghost or other supernatural being.

2. To visit often; frequent: haunted the movie theaters.

3. To come to the mind of continually; obsess: a riddle that haunted me all morning.

4. To be continually present in; pervade: the melancholy that haunts the composer's music.

v.intr.

To recur or visit often, especially as a ghost.

n.

1. A place much frequented.

2. also hant or ha'nt (hnt) or haint (hnt) Chiefly Southern U.S. A ghost or other supernatural being.

God haunted is what James Malm, Samuel Kitchen and E.W.King are.  David C. Pack and Gerald Flurry are God Haunted.  All of those who listen to them are God Haunted.

Being God haunted, using the above definitions, to often visit the scriptures...any scripture found anywhere on any topic to try and discern what it must mean for you today and to pick a way in which it can control, alter or influence your thinking.  Mistaken and mispoken ministers do this to the congregation knowlingly or, more likely, unknowingly.

Being God Haunted is to continually obsess on everything from "God's plan" to "Jesus Christ NOW is _____"  fill in the blank.  It makes you wear or not wear certain clothes or kinds of clothes.  It dictates the foods you eat or don't eat .  It may dictate how you cook that food or even if you do.   Being God Haunted determines  the days you keep or don't keep as sacred or meaningful.  Being God Haunted makes one keep those days in exact and certain ways and times.  It calculates and measures.

 

Being God Haunted determines just how you view marriage and "roles."   If it is God/Christ/My Church Leader/Me and then my wife to be followed by the kids and their pets, the woman is going to find out real fast what God Haunted religion is going to do to her individuality.  God Haunted parents ruin kids and teach them that conformity in spite of individuality and the authenticity of each person is all that is required.  God Haunted parents forget they got to make life choices themselves unless they too are the product of God Haunted parents who only demanded conformity to the family ways, now pass it on.  God Haunted parents send their kids to God Haunted Summer Camps or programs where the kids then learn the fine art of either wearing the mask of conformity or the fine art of getting around the rules and having some fun.

Gerald Flurry is God Haunted.  His obsession with HWA and the Book of Malachi where in he sees himself as "That Prophet" is classic God Hauntedness.  It's also classic delusional thinking. He's not "that prophet" and he's not even that intelligent.  Gerald is Haunted by the Ghost of HWA who I am not confident was God Haunted in the same ways.  HWA had his ghosts but I don't perceive they were obsessions with how exactly to be and do things to be on God's good side.  Being God Haunted is the fear of doing something Biblically inappropriate or forbidden upon pain of death or being cut off from the Deity.  Purification rites are being God Haunted.  Washings and sacrifices are being God Haunted.  Giving money you really do not have to give is being God Haunted.  Allowing your pastor to badger you into giving up retirements, homes, possessions, stuff, time and effort , with the appropriate scriptures to back it up, against your better stomach twitching judgment, is being God Haunted.

Dr. Robert Thiel is God Haunted.  He worries about how God views football, make up and the role of women.  I suppose he has mused on NASCAR too.  I don't know.  But if the question came up, he'd have to search the scriptures for a principle with which to make a judgment on the matter.  That's God Haunted. 

Being God haunted agonizes over questions about what constitutes leavening or at what age my child should fast on Atonement.  It never crosses their mind to ask the child or even teen if they wish to participate of their own free will.  They are afraid they might say not this year and then the Deity will be really miffed.  Being God Haunted asks whether God approves of oral sex or not.  As one minister begged when the presenter at a Refresher Program thought this needed to be addressed "in the Church",  "Stop, stop...don't answer that!  You'll lose the entire French Church!"   End of discussion.

Being God Haunted begs for an answer to whether you can eat out on a certain day of the week or turn on your lights or stove.  Being God Haunted keeps you near breathless to hear the next "announcement" as to what God is doing this week which obviously  He forgot to include in last week's announcement.  Being God Haunted looks back at what actually happened as opposed to what one said must happen and rewrites the script to keep it ever about to happen.

And of course, David C Pack, head of the Restored Church of God, is God Haunted.  Seeing himself as spoken of by the prophet Haggai and Zechariah is classic God Haunted. It is classic mental illness as well I am sure by someone's knowledgeable definition.  I can't judge Dave's religious sincerity.  But he is God Haunted and obsessive about meaning and what God, Christ and the Devil are doing these days concerning his Restored Church of God and himself. . They all are and they search and search the scriptures to find meaning and to define everything they can think up to think on.   He is obsessive about all things HWA.  Being God Haunted never means "I was wrong,"  "I misspoke" or "I got a little carried away with scripture and I apologize."   It always means, "The Prophecy still stands!  We  (not I) were wrong in the "Timing."  And the God Haunted pursuit of the content of God's mind continues unabated and unexamined.

One of the worst explanations of scripture ever given in WCG as to how one should study the bible is found in  Isaiah 28 9-11

…9 "To whom would He teach knowledge, And to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast? 10 "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'" 11. Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,…"



This scripture is God, MOCKING the drunken priests of Ephraim and their way of teaching.  It is God, through Isaiah, telling them they talk like babies.  Later God says if that's the way you want it, that's the way God will respond and we'll see how that works out for you.

New International Version
"For it is: Do this, do that, a rule for this, a rule for that; a little here, a little there."

New Living Translation
"He tells us everything over and over--one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there!"

These are not compliments and certainly NOT how one should study scripture to get "Gods intended meaning" or to promote "Letting the Bible interpret the Bible." 

When I was pastoring in Kentucky, people would tell me that various areas or places "had the Haints."  That meant it was haunted.  It had ghosts and was full of strange and weird things and happenings. 

Is there a cure for "the Haints"?  Only time and with experience I suppose.  Some clear thinking people, and I'm not seeing a lot of that in some of the COG membership as they sit week after week being entertained by the fairy tales of a Dave Pack or the lesseer players like Thiel, Malm, Kitchen and King,,  will reach the point of clarity and finally give up the ghosts.

Many won't and really probably can't. 

On this topic in the behaviors, requirements and machinations of the key players in the Church of God unending God Haunted drama, it will take time and a deep level of finally coming to see what "by their fruits you shall know them" actually means to the observer of these things.   This is the only real Ghost Buster I know and you'll know it when it shows up.

It usually presents itself when you hear the voice in your head, almost mid sentence or mid sermon say...

"This is stupid...I ain't afraid of no ghosts"

September 8, 2013
Dennis Muses on a Sunday Morning

1,  2,  3,  ____

Before pastoring in and for the Worldwide Church of God, I did not know what either depression or anxiety was.  When the Receivership drama hit in the late 70's, I believe that is where it began to present itself to me and any tendencies I may have had towards such episodes and reactions to life's circumstances.   The first medical experience I had with solving it ended up with my being told, "you'll be on these meds the rest of your life."  Ummm...no.   I have issues that need to be faced and resolved and when they get put in their proper perspective, I won't feel as I feel and won't be stuck.  That proved to be the truth and it did not come from thinking.  It was a gut reaction.

These are not easy topics to speak about.  Well they are if one is being generic and has no actual experience with it, but when it is personal, the first reaction is that others will think one is weak. But now I know how many human beings feel and struggle the same way.  Back then I did not. What good is an experience if you don't share the insights?   In religion and in the Church of God, you "lack faith" or need to get closer to God in some way if you suffer depression or anxiety.  Nonsense of course, but it is effective in promoting the guilt (I did a bad thing) and shame (I am a bad person) that often goes with the turf of religious practice.  Coping with change and events can be challenging with all the things that are at stake in this world. It's ok to need help.  It is a wise person in this day and age who has a personal counselor who actually knows how it all works. 


 My first conscious experience with this dual demon of depression and anxiety came in the late 70's when the WCG went into Receivership.  I knew in my soul when the Receivership hit that the Church and the Armstrongs were  to blame and deserved it.  I didn't want to believe it but in my gut, I knew it was true.  It was not an attack against religion.  It was not government persecuting a church for its beliefs.  It was no angry Satan attacking Herbert W Armstrong for preaching truth.  It was a legitimate concern government and those affected by the WCG and HWA had about the organization and what was going on with it.  It's when I went into my leave me alone shell and simple tried to be the best local pastor I could be.   I still believed the message.  It was the messengers I was having problems taking seriously


At any rate, quietly and insidiously it ate away at me.  It was the first time I wished I had made other choices but the die seemed to have been cast.  One thing lead to another and the many things I knew or heard behind the scenes began to take their toll.  Once transferred for the last time , it broke through and I ended up having to address the depression, which in hindsight was really my internalized and repressed anger with no place to go safely or effectively, had to be addressed. 


n the course of "treatment" I was asked to take a simple 18 question test.  No problem.  here is how it went.


1.  1, 2, 3 __________


2.  1a, 2b, 3c 4______

3.  .....and so on.

My first thoughts were they thought I was stupid or retarded.  My second thought was along the lines of wondering what the hell was going on and how did I get to this point.  Was basket weaving next?


Question 18 looked something like this.

18.  23k547bbl38r844pcy , 35u835hcj92r022 ecy, 15x586wwx99x558 mnw, ___________

I could see the answer in my mind.  But when I tried to write it down, I lost it.  It was the only one I missed.

When I went back for a "chat" with my counselor he told me I did very well.  I smiled because it was the first thing that felt good in a long time.  Then he cut me to the bone.  "Dennis...it is no great honor to be the most intelligent guy in a mental hospital."  (It was a Charter Facility)



I just stared at him. It was one of those moments where you know someone is right but you want them to say something more kind and helpful than that.  It was then I realized that lots of folk who struggle with such things are very intelligent.  It was the first time I realized it didn't matter if one used it badly or it simply caused one's head to spin with thoughts that lead to depression, which is the anger at the past unresolved or anxiety which seems all about future fears and concerns. 

We/I  had to do another little experiment in the program.  A standard wooden pallet was in the middle of the room.  There were about 10 of us and given the simple task of all getting on the pallet with no feet touching the floor.  Great!   Now I'm a complete idiot (You have to recall I grew up visiting a State Hospital every week where my brother, blind, deaf and speechless lived).   Now I was going to prove I was handicapped!   We did as instructed and the counselor said, "Ok , let's go back and talk about this."   Sure, fine.   I was not in a good mood.



The counselor asked one question of the group to consider.  "Tell me where you were on the pallet.  The center, the inside or the outside.   Got me!  I woke up a bit more forever.  I was on the outside with my arms out holding everyone on the pallet.  He asked me if I had the thought of stepping off the pallet so others had room?  Got me!  "yes."    He said we had to work on that but I got the point and it was a life lesson never to be forgotten. 

What's the point?  Going back to "It is no great honor being the most intelligent guy in a mental facility,"  I see the same thing going on with Dave Pack and his Restored Church of God.  I think you know I have little use for the one man show in church and religion.  It is too dangerous and to think one man would be allowed to filter my world of experience and thought , hopes and faith through his mind is obscene to me.  RCG members allow it all the time. It's why we write about thinking for one's self and not letting others filter your experience through  their own baggage or way of being and seeing.  

Dave Pack is an intelligent man in many ways but not theologically and I think most here know what I mean by that from previous comments of mine on the topic.  He, like most in the Church of God ministry, are mere Bible readers and commentators.  He just does it well.  Bob Thiel and Gerald Flurry do not do it all that well. That is not the same, however,  as being theologically trained or competent.   He is an excellent speaker and can present material very well.  Not to me personally of course, as his presentations are almost humorous to me knowing what he is actually doing or how he really does not understand the origins and intent of the original material he now presents, but that's a different topic. 

Dave seems both "intelligent" and clever.  Clever is the devious part of intelligence and not a good combo.  Clever always falls to reality and truth.  It serves a short term purpose but clever always ends up biting you in the ass. Clever is what Dave being forced to use now to keep his Haggai Prophecy alive and kicking.  Those outside the sphere of clever influence can see it clear as day. Those inside the circle tend to not see it and excuse it when they do.  You have to be good at that gut stirring denial in the Churches of God at times.  I was.



In some ways, I feel sorry for the man.  The excuse making, rewriting, editing and blame placing where it does not actually belong is a common approach those given to hyperbole and theological nonsense end up perfecting when the excrement hits the rotating device.  In religion you always get to say "God is revealing more,"  "Rejoice!  We have more time," or in Dave's case, "The Prophecy stands true.  It is the timing that "we" i.e. "he"  did not understand.   In my world we call that "Weinlanding."     You actually crash but you survive saying, "any landing you survive is a good landing."

"Apostle" Dave is intelligent.  He is clever.  He is persuasive sorta depending.  He is driven.  He reads well.  He can make up many points to be known.  He copies HWA very well.  I think he is sincere and really believes he is spoken of in scripture.   "Apostle" Dave Pack is the most clever and "intelligent" guy in the Wild World of God mental facility.

But let me pass a life lesson on to you Dave...

"It is no great honor to be the most intelligent guy in a mental health facility."

I'd also be curious to know where you'd end up on the pallet...  In the middle or on perimeter?  I doubt it would be anyplace in between. 

September 7, 2013
David C. Pack:  Where You Choose To Wait For My Prophecy To Come True Could Be Deadly

David C. Pack just cannot get it through his head that NO ONE in the hundreds of COG's came over to his side this past weekend.  Your failure to really trust in his god caused you to deny his god and your salvation is now at risk.  If you stay in your current COG waiting to see what happens, you are destroying your chance of salvation.    David seems to be saying, "It is better to come on over to the dark side, even if I am wrong than to stay where you are and give your money to them.  Its my money and it belongs to me.  Your questions and fears should not be part of the equation.  I am incapable of being wrong, trust me, it will be OK in the end."

Lacking the prophecy’s fulfillment, having vested themselves in the announced date, some brethren outside The Restored Church of God are surely wondering what to do now. You face a choice: wait inside God’s Church and Work—or outside…

If you stay where you are, you have chosen to continue under false leaders in a place of division and deception, one drenched in false doctrine and under a false government, all while witnessing accelerating collapse around you. Of course, some may just go home. Unavailable to you will be healings, blessings and almost daily exciting announcements of God’s Church and Work. (Just view our “Behind the Work” film right after the Feast of Tabernacles to see the sharp contrast with your group.) Or would you rather support the exciting Work of God being done in His Church, under His government, in His full truth, while experiencing the peace, joy, love and unity only possible in one Church?

The only real alternative you have is to follow Christ’s Spirit back to His Church.

Think hard about what you will do. You do not need to wait until our next “Fruits” letter highlights how we continue to explode in growth and the reach of the Work while other groups do not. You need not miss out.

Do not stake your salvation on the timing of the Haggai/Zechariah prophecy. I repeat a final time. The prophecy is TRUE. Just next week’s announcement will inspire you beyond belief—it is way beyond what you could imagine! Don’t miss it!