It has been well documented over the years on how abusive the Philadelphia Church of God has become under the leadership of Gerald Flurry. Families have been ripped apart, marriages destroyed and countless suicides have occurred because of the vile polices that Gerald Flurry has forced upon the membership of the Philadelphia Church of God.
Here is a first hand account of one family who's lives have been permanently scared by the sick and degenerate actions of Fred Dattalo, Cal Culpepper and Gerald Flurry as they contributed to the suicide of Janet De Gennaro.
Fred Dattalo was part of the Living Church of God for many years. After leaving it he went to PCG. In the many years he was in Pasadena before the mother church imploded, he was well know to be a condescending, self-righteous wanna-a-be man who desired power. Living Armstrongism has this to say about him:
As a former follower of LCG I am particularly disgusted and horrified with the fact that Fred Dattolo, who used to be in LCG, participated in isolating Janet De Gennaro from her family and causing her immediate family members to be cast out of PCG. According to this testimony it was Fred Dattolo who first "suspended" Janet De Gennaro's brother from PCG for an "inappropriate" comment on Facebook. Gradually the family was lost PCG's favor and were cast out, even though Dan De Gennaro was a Deacon. My word! Even Deacons are not safe from such oppressive acts within PCG.
PCG's reign of terror on it's families has been well documented here: Reign of ErrorI well remember reading Fred Dattolo's articles in LCG's recruitment magazine, Tomorrow's World, before he jumped ship to PCG in 2001. In the May-June 2000 issue he wrote an article extolling the role of the father in producing a happy family. Yet here Fred Dattolo is exposed as causing Janet De Gennaro to be cut off from her loving father and her family.
Our Family's Devastation Due to Gerald Flurry's No-Contact PolicyAfter 3 long years, Gerald Flurry finally allowed me to see my daughter. It was not in the way my family hoped. She was delivered to us C.O.D., wrapped in a plastic bag and sealed in a metal container.
My dear daughter, Janet, lived a full life while she was part of our family. She was always pleasant, respectful and obedient. She had an adventurous spirit and enjoyed traveling the world.
We are first generation Italians in Canada. My wife and I place a high value on family unity and we taught our children that we always support each other with love and respect. The PCG was never our teacher when it came to family values as it was clear to us they didn't understand the value of a family. In fact, we were criticized, insulted and even humiliated by PCG leaders for our strong family values.
We attended the Milton, Ontario congregation. Our nightmare began in 2009, with the arrival of Tim Oostendarp, a new graduate from HWA College, eager to prove himself to the PCG hierarchy. He found my 20-year-old son, Robert, on Facebook and immediately began to spy on him. In December 2010, he reported Robert to the local minister, Fred Dattolo, for an "inappropriate" Facebook post. Fred Dattolo immediately suspended Robert. After a six-month suspension, Robert decided he didn't want to return to such a negative environment.
In April 2011, Fred Dattolo came to me with an ultimatum from Gerald Flurry. I had 3 months to remove my son from our home--otherwise I would no longer be a deacon. The following week, Fred Dattolo told me that my son is a Laodicean and I should think of him as a rebellious and lazy son. This was nonsense. My son has always been respectful and helpful.
In May 2011, my wife, Maria, and I met with Fred Dattolo. Once again, he had an ultimatum from Gerald Flurry. The Pastor General and "Prophet" wanted our son out of our home. Fred Dattolo recommended that our son move into a "small room" like other single men in the PCG. For my wife and I, this would be unconscionable because he did nothing to warrant this harsh treatment. When Maria tried to explain that our son was not a baptized member, she began to cry. Fred Dattolo looked at her and said, "I see this crying all the time." While this experience was obviously a normal occurrence for Fred Dattolo, we were taken aback and totally shocked by his callous attitude. He was brutal, cold and showed no concern. A true minister of God would have shown mercy, love and compassion and opened the scriptures to direct us. None of this happened.
On September 14, 2011, my wife and I were suspended for not complying with "That Prophet's" ultimatum. Janet was left behind
One month later, in October 2011, while attending the feast, Janet met David Privratsky.
On August 26, 2012, Fred Dattolo called Janet and told her that Gerald Flurry wants her to "get out of that house." We knew Janet. She would never deliberately dishonour us and disobey God's commandment. She thought she was obeying God by obeying "That Prophet." She found a basement apartment, which cost her $800/month, and moved out of her room in our family home.
Though my wife, my son and I were distraught and cried for weeks, we now know that this proved to be a very heavy, emotional burden for Janet. She was the one who suffered the most by being cut off from her family.
Because she was planning to move to the United States to live with David Privratsky, she was turned over to Regional Director, Cal Culpepper. He prevented Janet from moving to Chicago until he was sure that she was totally compliant with "That Prophet's" no-contact policy. Cal Culpepper made it clear that the marriage would be called off if she had any contact with her family. After a year of counseling and monitoring, she was given the green light to marry David Privratsky and their wedding took place on September 8, 2013.
We emailed Fred Dattolo to ask if we could be a part of the wedding ceremony. He did not respond. This was a crushing blow to us. It was also a crushing blow to Janet's extended family, which has never been a part of the church and could not understand why they could not attend the wedding. This is an example of how the PCG's cruelty reflects poorly on Christianity! Instead of being a light and turning people to God, they were the opposite and turned people away.
We later found out that Janet and David Privratsky were not legally married. They were only married in the eyes of the PCG ministry. Once again, the scriptures were ignored (1 Pet 2:13, Titus 3:1). Because they were not legally married, Janet was buried as my daughter, Janet C. De Gennaro.
From the time Janet left our home until the end of 2013, the only contact we had with her was when she sent a generic thank you note to us for our wedding gifts.
In January 2014, Janet's uncle wanted to send a financial gift to her. We emailed her and asked her to call us so we could work out how to best send the money. She called. This was the first time we had heard her voice since she left our home in 2012. She was subdued and spoke only a few words and that was the last time we heard our daughter's voice. We learned after her death, that David Privratsky forbade her from speaking to us due to the no-contact policy.
On July 21, 2014, David Privratsky called us, a full 38 hours after Janet's death! Why the delay? No doubt, he needed to seek counseling from the PCG ministry to ask permission to call us and to find out what he should say when he speaks to us.
We were sitting in the garden in the middle of the afternoon when we were interrupted by the phone. It was David Privratsky. We immediately knew that something was wrong. He told us that our daughter was dead. He said she died of a massive heart attack. We were confused. How could a healthy, young 30-year old woman die of a massive heart attack? We pressed him to find out exactly what happened. He finally broke down and admitted to us that Janet committed suicide.
He went on to say that Janet had been seeing a doctor for the last 6 weeks for insomnia and anxiety. When we asked why he hadn't informed us about her depression, he said he put God before physical family. He later admitted that he didn't understand what he was dealing with and he should have reached out to us.
Church should be a sanctuary of safety and protection.1 The PCG is the opposite. It is harsh and dangerous. Janet was alone and suffered silently. She was isolated in a small town of 15,000 people in a foreign country without the support of her family. She was surrounded by people who didn't know her and didn't care enough about her to see she got the help she needed. We were surprised to see that less than 9 days after Janet's suicide, David Privratsky was posting a humorous tweet about the "Rise of the Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" on Twitter. He obviously didn't know Janet. They were married for less than a year and they obviously did not have the deep, heartfelt relationship with her that we did. We're still grieving and will do so for the rest of our lives.
One timely phone call to her loving family would have made all the difference.
On July 21, 2014, after 3 years of no contact, Gerald Flurry finally made an exception and relaxed his no-contact policy just for us. He allowed the ministers and David Privratsky to send Janet home to us C.O.D., wrapped in a plastic bag and sealed in a metal container. I was able to see the damage my daughter did to herself when she realized she couldn't go on suffering the way she was. In her enforced isolation and state of depression, she saw this as the only way out.
Shame on you Gerald Flurry, and all PCG ministers and members who carry out the dictates of a narcissistic megalomaniac who will stop at nothing, leaving a wake of destruction, as he magnifies himself.2
PCG ministers and members, although many of you are trapped inside the PCG because of the cruel, no-contact policy, you need to study the Bible and beware of deceivers. By their fruits you shall know them. Ask yourself if any good fruit has come out of this destructive policy. Ask yourself why you hate others who have done you no wrong. Doesn't the Bible teach you to be gentle to all men? Why are you fighting your brothers and sisters? God expects you to obey Him rather than men.
"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (Titus 3:1–3)"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4)Gerald Flurry has done a great evil to my family and me. Regardless of what he thinks of us and what he tells you to think of us, we are Christians. We love our Heavenly Father and our Lord, Jesus Christ. We realize that we are not fighting flesh and blood, but spiritual wickedness in high places. The Lord promises in Rom 12 that He will avenge Janet's death.
"Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Romans 12:17–19)Please learn from my bitter experience. I wouldn't want anyone else to have to go through this.
By Dan De Gennaro
August 22, 2014
Please follow the links here to keep updated on the Philadelphia Church of God, Gerald Flurry, Fred Datttalo and Cal Culpepper: What's New, Letters of those impacted by the PCG
I hope this family takes legal action against this despicable cult! Filthy unchristian liars!
I hope they sue him for all their worth.
Gerald Flurry is a ruthless murderer. This comes as no surprise to me. If they will destroy you spiritually and eternally then surely your physical life is nothing to them at all. I have witnessed the ruthlessness of their arrogant remorseless ministers and deacons first hand.
It's rare for me to say this about another human being but I hate Gerald Flurry. He did a lot to destroy my family as well, including not allowing my father to talk to me in the last years of his life. Prior to that we were very close. Gerald is one messed up puppy and he's not going to feel so self assured when he explains to God the path of destruction he left behind!
I knew Cal Culpepper when he was a fellow student at Ambassador in Pasadena. I thought we were friends. We sat together at many meals. In retrospect, I understand now why he was never considered for student leadership and ended up leaving (I think on his own). I felt his rigid views were harmless at the time. To hear that he is an upper leader in any organization stuns me, and makes me give credence to the abusive narrative these posts accuse him of. Cal, you know who I am.
I remember reading about Janet DeGennaro's suicide on Exit and Support Network back in 2014. It's no surprise to me that some people in these Armstrong offshoot cults end up taking their own lives. They feel trapped and like there is no way out. To them, leaving "the church" would be walking way from God. And for some who grew up in "these congregations", I truly feel sorry for them because they don't know what a normal life is like. I know what they're going through. Although I never grew up in a WCG offshoot, my mom taught me Armstrong which was known as the "things of God" to her. The main reason why I stopped keeping Armstrongism had to do with my mother's mental illness and the fact that I uncovered how it was a cult.
My dear friends you seem such a wonderful family, I am here to tell you "Gerald Flurry" is a false and decietful prophet (not a true prophet) his co-horts are also FALSE MINiSTERS - FALSE MINISTERS. I repeat FALSE MINISTERS. Even though they claim to keep God's Law they still can be false ministers, just as they were there in the 1st century church. LCG is following in similar footsteps to PCG with this type of abusive behaviour to its members they wish to pick on. Ask God to find the true church again, the gates of hell shall never prevail on his true church. Definitely not PCG And LCG give them a miss, they are not even preaching the Gospel any more, just using the brethren to fund their retirement programs and nepotism.
This family should file legal action against PCG, flurry, datallo, culpepper and as well as the minister with the unpronounceable last name. They should be held culpable for their evil.
This is really a sad story. She, their daughter, must have suffered through mental hell. Her poor family has been hurt in a way that is hard to fathom. These PCG leaders should be publicly exposed as often as possible so others don't have to suffer like this family.
David Privratsky has moved on, he is getting remarried to Vanesssa Skinner on Feb 27, 2017. I don't think he is a good guy and never loved Janet.
This was always a dispute I had with my wife even when we were in the WCG. We are adults. We can make our own decisions and pay the price for or benefit from them. It is our life not a life through which ministers can live through. They infantize their church members seeing them as incapable of decision making based on logic and reason.
One thing people either forget or have never been told. Authority does not come from a book, an organization or any individual who claims to represent them. Authority comes from each individual. They either do their own thinking or, as too many people do, they let others do their thinking for them. Once you understand where authority really comes from it is much easier, actually unavoidable, to leave these dictators in the dust.
I am not a member of the Philadelphia Church of God and in fact just heard about it. Let me then respond as a 1978 Ambassador College Pasadena graduate. In recently researching the Philadelphia Church of God and the Herbert W. Armstrong College in Edmonton I found the article on this blog site regarding the suicide of Janet De Gennaro and the obvious and understandable anger of the De Gennaro family regarding Gerald Flurry, Mr. David Privratsky and Elder Fred Dattalo.
MY COMMENTS HERE REGARDING FRED DATTALO ARE SHOWN IN PART 2 AND PART 3 FOLLOWING THESE COMMENTS
The loss of a daughter is nearly unbearable, a crippling life changing event, it is hard for most to even imagine this horror, having four daughters, I do and can, but cry even now as I write this. There is no room here to pick on or rebuff the comments of the father of Janet De Gennaro, whether their reactionary comments are accurate or not. There is only room for compassion and prayer for the De Gennaros to have the ability to recover from this tragic devastation and loss sufficiently to even go on in life.
The scriptures say that one side of the argument often seems right … until you hear the other person’s side. So apply this scripture.
I have never met nor even known of HWA Chancellor and PCG Pastor General Gerald Flurry until recently and although the comments made about him may cause pause, it is up to him to take such accusations to God, and steer his course according to what God shows him. It is a matter between Pastor General Flurry and God alone. Why condemn? When we judge, we will be judged. Does one want to retaliate, even if just verbally and in writing? Many of us, myself included, have suffered much and would wish to get even, but we learn to repent of that and grow to hold back such responses and trust more deeply in God who tells us not to return evil for evil, and not to retaliate. God says ‘vengeance is mine saith the lord … I will repay.” And He does.
I also refuse to judge Mr. David Privratsky, I do not know him either, and his sins in this if any, are also between him and God alone. Do not think for a moment that a man like that was not deeply touched with tremendous grief after his wife died. The man and woman in marriage become one, the separation by death is also horribly painful to the surviving party..
Any Pastor can throw an un-repented sinner from the church and ostracize him per the Apostle Paul’s example, as also a Chancellor could also do to a disruptive student. But even the Apostle Paul wrote later that the church should have compassion on such a one less they lose the strength to go on.
I knew HWA while a student, and as a prophetic person I wrote him a long long letter about what might be done better in administration. I delivered it personally which he accepted willingly and seemingly gratefully and acted on as able. Yet some things were never cleared up, politics and administration are challenging foes. Later the the church exploded into fragments, Ambassador College disintegrated and eventually Mr. Armstrong was called home, all as was written to him.
I knew GTA, and as Student Body Business Manager got to even ride in the cockpit of the Falcon Jet with him while taking off and piloting. I was able to deliver a letter to him that he had written to David John Hill in their early school years. I had come across that letter while cleaning out the basement storage room dubbed the ‘vault’ and the ‘safe’ in a house down the street, and although slightly embarrassing in content it brought a smile and maybe a tear. I had been assigned by Fred Stevens, my boss and HWA’s personal assistant to clean out that basement vault and to personally decide what to keep and what to destroy. Accordingly I felt deeply humbled and diligently read every document. Other than my giving a letter found to GTA, I used the other material read as a good reason to pray for positive changes.
Robert Meiser AC ’78.
PART 1 OF 3
SEE PART 2
Part 2 of 3 re: FRED DATTALO:
If Mr. Flurry is in fact like Mr. HWA ,and he sure looks like him lol, even emulating him in that regard, then I imagine that his heart is full of compassion and that he took no joy in what occurred in Janet De Gennaro ’s death, or the resulting devastating effect on her family.
I do stand in judgment of Fred Dattalo, but not as you might think. Nor is my attitude and assessment toward him favorably biased because we went to Ambassador College together. In fact we worked very closely together as a team developing a time intensive large written project for one class. Since a team member, maybe actually two, were unable to help with finishing the project Fred and I pulled an all-nighter to complete it. As I reworked the wording and exhibits, Fred typed. This was before the advent of word processing, this was a manual typewriter and a very large project, it was painful. Fred worked diligently from early in the evening until early the next morning to get the job done. He would not stop for a cup of hot chocolate or coffee, and he would not stop even to use the bathroom. Fred had determined and had made a vow to himself not to stop until entirely finished. I was greatly impressed with this act, demonstrating his integrity and intent to do what was necessary to obtain a righteous goal, even while suffering to do so. Subsequently we became friends. My assessment of Fred is based solely on prayerful insight, scriptural application and a more in depth knowledge of Fred Dattalo’s inner man than most if any other readers here have had the chance to do. It might be easy to confuse such intensity and diligence with coldness or rudeness on a person’s part, but I assure you that is not the case here with Fred. It was more likely an intensity in performing an otherwise uncomfortable assignment, as we all have or will face at times in life, resulting in a communication disconnect, again as we all also likely already have or surely will encounter.
Although this may infuriate some, I hope they will pray through it and see this man differently. Fred was not a hired gun for Mr. Flurry nor a con man intent to win no matter who get’s hurt. Fred has a deep sense of integrity, an integrity that is being hurt by such public demeaning of his part in what occurred. As others surely cried over this death, you can be sure that Fred cried as much and took what happened before God in tears. That’s the way he is built. As for blindly following orders directly from Mr. Flurry that would not have been the case either. Fred having previously demonstrating his ministerial ability to Mr. Flurry in using sound reasoning and a compassionate approach in similar situations, following any necessary protocols already set by the church, would have responded with diligence, not ill intent, and would have seen it through according to those set protocols in as humane a way as possible.
Robert Meiser AC ’78.
Part 2 of 3
See Conclusion Part 3
Part 3 of 3 Conclusion - Fred Dattalo
Fred was not known to be a man trying to bring fame and honor upon himself, but a man that works diligently hard, harder than any man I have since met, and righteously, allowing any rising through the ranks to come as a consequence from that alone. God even says it is good to seek the office of a Bishop. And Fred, full of the Spirit and well versed in the scriptures would qualify for further service in the church. He was not an evil self willed narcissist with an agenda that intended to raise his own stature at other’s expense, especially in a case such as this. Fred, like all of us who are Christians, seeks the kingdom of God and Christ’s glory, and in that regard should be shown the respect that Christ and many other of us who know him well have for him, and his role in following Christ. He should be honored, as Paul says ‘with double honor’ and not be evil spoken against. In fact Christ warned some that they were close to committing the ‘Unpardonable Sin’ we should also seriously take note of and avoid doing that. We will as the scriptures say ‘be judged for every word that proceeds out of our mouths’. The unpardonable sin is public commentary degrading the work of the Spirit of God, and of demeaning those possessing God’s Spirit in their service. Jesus said that every sin, every trespass against Him would be forgiven, but that any sin against the Holy Spirit would not. Hopefully we all can learn from and respect this.
And perhaps then all of us, no matter how deeply hurt, can stand up and be counted as forgiving Christians, and make those changes necessary in our lives and in our churches and colleges to fully demonstrate the light of Christ that dwells in us to those around us and to the whole world who may be watching.
Robert Meiser AC ’78.
Your experience with Fred Dattalo is no longer the Fred that wrecks havoc in the PCG at this day and time. There are numerous horror stories about the despicable things has done and still does. Whatever acts of kindness and mercy he may have exhibited in the previous administrations is not like he is now. Flurry demands total obedience and has ripped families and marriages apart due to his vile doctrinal beliefs. If Fred is as you say he is then Fred need sot leave Flurry's cult immediately. A man of integrity would do that.
Mr. Meisner--I cannot understand how you can defend the actions of PCG officials in this matter. Who Fred Dattalo (and I never heard of him before reading this thread) was when you went to school with him has no bearing on who he has become. HWA (and Flurry after him) promote the ministry in the EXACT OPPOSITE WAY the Bible says ministers should behave. The Bible says ministers should be servants. WCG and PCG promoted them as dictators, above the membership in every way. They are programmed to believe they are superior.
This boils down to the same thing it always does in cults--The cult comes before EVERYTHING, and sadly, in this case that included an innocent young woman's life.
Mr. Robert Meiser: I attended PCG for a short period of time (3 years) I quit the church as I would not agree with the No-contact Policy.
Your comments full of mercy towards the ministers mentioned here are a sign of a truly converted man. A true christian will never ever use and run a site like this in order to speak bad about a dead person like Mr. Armstrong.
This site reflects no other thing, but anger and a contentious spirit, I find it everywhere. It is God's job to judge them and condemn them for their actions if needed.
A true christian will never act as Satan, the great accuser of the brethren, does. As Christ said about the Pharisees:"Do what they teach, not what they do". We ought to recognize that Yahweh the Eternal, used HWA to spread the true gospel, despite his personal flaws, just like he did with Moses, Jonah, kings David and Solomon, among others.
I know Satan is angry and inspires sites like these, he hates the truth about the Sabbath Day and God's plan of salvation, which is still being taught around the world, as a testimony to the nations and to preserve and nurture the small flock of those who are humble to hear the words of other faithful and loving servants I've personally known, even in the PCG and other churches of God.
Jesuschrist is coming for those who keep the commandments and keep the faith of Jesuschrist. This site is certainly not a christian site. They claim to be one that is trying to open the eyes of others caught into this "cult", yet they are breaking the biggest commandment Christ taught us: To love one another, which implies to forgive one another.
People forgive those in the body of the Messiah who did wrong to you. Move on, time is short. Christ is coming....
Annie, God did not use HWA for ANYTHING. He was a degenerate of the WORST possible kind, and the "truths" he disseminated were nothing more than other tired and non-Biblical garbage he borrowed from the Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists, and then claimed God "revealed" to him. He was a failed prophet, and the Bible itself says if someone makes prophecies and they don't come true, that person is a FALSE PROPHET. That is what HWA was, and so are all the splinter groups who are still shilling his crap. I hope your the veil is soon lifted from your eyes.
Randy (PART 1 of 2)
I am glad that you responded, although not artfully. I sense your frustration but I hold strongly with Annie’s views and respect her comments, yours – not so much!. Your comments reflect not only anger but a sense of self righteous entitlement. Chill out and rethink it brother with a cool mind.
While an older (28-32) full time student and mostly full time campus employee at AC Pasadena I was given great latitude and access to many of the staff and occasional access to HWA and GTA. There was a lot of political corruption and competition but it centered more around some of the higher ups that wanted to be the king themselves. Obsequious sycophants they were. Most of the staff, professors and the teachers were excellent to deal with, not arrogant and abusive.
God’s word penetrates the hardest of hearts, including my own very analytical heart. I became an avid reader of his word and got all of that from the WWCOG and AC. I chilled out, you can too if you try.
HWA was never a prophet, and I laugh at (or cry with) those fostering splinter groups that claim to be prophets. Being prophetic brings a lot of pain, loss and rejection, not to mention that using that title if you are not one is dangerous. Anyway though not a prophet HWA still had a lot of vision. God sent him to Pasadena as a marketer and an organizer and builder. Sometimes our leaders fall short, and HWA as Annie said, was not perfect, but he was not immoral as some had proclaimed.
There was immorality and many young ladies were paid off to keep quiet. That was hidden in the accounting software buried three lines deep in the code. I worked at Data Processing. Mr. Bickett who ran all of data processing and other staff services was not even aware of that. He was a man of strength and integrity, yet with a sensitive approach to correcting wrongs. He corrected me once with a long had written scroll. I got the point and was grateful for his sensitivity in correcting me. In any case Mr. HWA was not involved with womanizing and payoffs. One high level party was involved, and was thrown out of the college and church by HWA. Non-the less the sycophants behind the scene pushing for eliminating their competition to inherit it all, pushed Mr. HWA to take this action.
Randy you may come to realize that you fell into the same trap that most of us do regarding recognizing false prophets and false prophecy. Some prophecies are contingent and do not come to pass. Some prophets today, especially young ones fail to realize that they do not need to compete to be useful. Due to strong competition from one prophet who came out of the Kansas City Fellowship in the 80’s had a challenging spirit that fired up ungodly competition. Senior Pastor Mike Bickell, a very patient and righteous leader finally put and end to that in his church. But now dispersed these younger prophets taught by a strong example to compete at all costs continue making up what they seem to understand but have not had confirmed by God or man. They spit out something that comes close, or maybe not close, and it falls short of occurring. This makes them more of a novice than a false prophet. They are still immature, having more desire to use that gift than the wisdom to do so correctly
END PART 1
ROBERT (PART 2 of 2)
In any case the small part of the quote that you paraphrased about ID’ng false prophets is found in Ezek.13 and in summary says that the prophet that says peace peace when there will be no peace, because God has not called for peace but destruction, that prophet is a false prophet. God sent and still sends His faithful prophets out early and warn of coming destruction if a person or nation does not repent. Most of us taught to love Jerusalem do not understand that throughout history they had as many idols as Judah had cities, and God stated that he was going to bring the hammer down on them … and hard. The Priests, the prophets, even the kings were corrupt. Even in Christ’s day they did not follow the Mosaic law that they were bound under (John 7:19).
There are a half dozen prophetic scriptures in the prophets that although not using the name ‘Hitler’ make it very plain that because of their hardness of heart and failure to put away their idols, that God was going to bring such things as the Holocaust upon them. We stand with the Jews in what pain they went through, and it is not something they would want to hear – but they brought the holocaust on themselves .as God warned them over and over that it would happen if they did not turn their hearts back to Him. It will happen again and this time worse. To this day they have not turned back to God, except for the few that have embraced Christ and Christianity.
Please excuse typos and bad grammar – no time to edit further
END PART 2
They all need to read 1st Timothy Chapter 5 verse number eight because they are going against what God Said
Skyguy--I am happy I was able to provide you with the opportunity to lessen your feelings of inadequacy, however temporarily, by bashing me, though I admit to being a little nonplussed as to why you would think that I care about your opinion.
We forget that ALL authority comes from the individual. Authority does NOT come from an institution (church or whatever), a book or an individual/committee or board that claims to represent some higher being. Individuals turn over their own authority over their own lives to these people. These people set themselves up as having a greater connection with some god, greater understanding of some supposed sacred writings, etc. and people rather than thinking for themselves follow the lead, reading, praying, etc. in the context of the doctrine/dogma/beliefs/rituals so everything must fit into the prescribed formula of people like Armstrong, Meredith, Flurry, etc. "Don't worry about it." they say. "We've worked it all out. We'll do your thinking for you."
Two basic things to learn from this: don't believe and don't follow. If everyone just walked away from the LCG, PCG and all the rest they would have NO AUTHORITY. All authority rests with the individual not with these yahoos or their ideas of what god is like or what he supposedly says.
Great points, Anonymous! But spiritually weak people like to be told what to do. They forget that the Holy Spirit speaks to ALL of us, not just those who appoint themselves as "God's Apostle" or whatever the terminology they're using now is.
I’m not going to fight with you Ringo ---- there’s no money in it!
It saddens and causes me to feel anger when I read stories of Jehovah’s Witnesses and the splinters of the WWCOG making life hell for their members. I’ve listened to speeches on YouTube by Flurry and Pack, I could see no compassion in their remarks, nothing even touching the behavior of Christ, rather a harse and uncaring attitude much like a feedlot manager to his livestock.
I can’t quote handle the heavy control that people allow these goons to have over them. Had someone told me to kick my kids out of the house instead it would have been a buttkicking followed by tossing the cruel proveyer of Family breakups to the curb. Goodness folks they need you much more than you need them, without your cash, these tinny splinters will dry up and be forgotten. You are fueling their insanity, the need they have to be recognized and worshipped. Keep your eyes on Christ, Acts 4:12; Flurry nor Pack can save you. If they were truly favored by Christ, happiness would be the byproduct not Pain and the groups would be growing like crazy. To think that God created the world and everything in it all for the benefit of his chosen Flurryites or Packites is ridicules. Find your freedom, break the chains
Am 65yo now. I came into WCG at age 26, a troubled man from a troubled family. A hard working poor man who never had girlfriend or wife. I was loner, who wanted to be normal. I 100% with the church, but emotionally hurting, that there were no single women near my age, and dating outside was taboo. The minister did say ok to have platonic friendships outside, though. My parents and siblings against me being in "the Armstrong cult" and i moved 2000 miles away. I did meet a troubled 20 yo single gal at the feast, and befriended. But she was severely damaged, and 100 miles away, and ended her life 8 months later on drugs. Only 21. I tried to date ladies in the big city congregation, and made some friends, but, the women did not consider me quite fit. Too damaged by my parents siblings, and lacked confidence, and poor. But, i cannot blame them. I was not fit for marriage, though very hardworking, i had too much baggage from the severe emotional abuse of my family. I looked at ministers as almost Moses , or Jesus, and afraid to do my own thinking. I am codependent, youngest child of family, and never had authority of my own. I was discharged from the service, because a SDA pastor told me i can't serve on sabbath, and he guilted me into quitting , if they didn't let me have sabbaths off. So, i was discharged, but struggled on jobs I didn't like the rest of my life, working poor. I started a very small one man cleaning business, but never made more than $15,000. When the church splits came, lost many friends. So painful. I attended GCG mostly, and UCG some, but there were almost no single women in them. Went to number of LCG feasts, and almost no single women there, too. Sometimes, zero, in age range. When the church shootings happened, I was in ways not surprised, that an older single man finally snapped and did something like that, but usually it is only suicide, not taking other lives, too. I wrote letters to LCG about the pain of single men in the COGs, an how needs and plights ignored for so long, but no answers, and rebuked for talking about,a few times. There are true Christians in churches of God, but no one ever addresses plight of older singles, especially men. It is like our pain, and loneliness just do not exist. We are told to just serve, and have heart in the work. I did massive serving, for many years, and much time , sweat, and money, for others, and i still do serve others. The church has many things right, doctrinally, but the area of personal things, they may be in third grade on. I have personal issues that are never addressed, and others also. The UCG seems to be a bit more willing to listen, and consider, but is still a ways from helping hurtin lonely people who have no supportive relatives, and are isolated, and depressed , and lonesome most of the time, and loners, and severely emotionally and mentally damaged. The minister are married for along time, with kids and grandkids great grandkids, and simply are too far removed from the plights of the unprovided for loners. sad, but true. And there few single women in the churches now. And most women near my age, been divorced, do not want to give a loner never married man a chance. I realize it best to date and marry one who believes similar. But, MANY HAVE DIED, WILL DIE, never HAVING A CHANCE TO DATE MUCH OR MARRY in this life, because of strict taboos. Sad, but true. A corporation is not church, too. I know of recovering gays and crossdressers in church, too, and it had been hell for some. I have not given up on God or Yeshua. I have friends and aquaintences in various COG's. Am hoping and praying that He returns to straighten out church and world, because both messed up.
thanks for sharing your story. Can I make this into a separate post on the blog? Because this topic is an old one other will not see it. I think it deserves a separate posting to stir up conversations.
It is NONE of ANY church's business who you date. I agree with everything you said except for one thing--I think the COGs are all 100% WRONG doctrinally on EVERYTHING. Good luck to you. I hope you find your soul mate.
I finished reading the heartfelt story of your daughter. There are no words that can express the empathy of your horrible loss. Needless to say that Jesus Christ is the judge not some man, who masquerades as a quote "Prophet". I would like to send a message from our ministry: DOES GOD SAY WE SHOULD OBEY A TYRANT
Shalom and God Speed
DOES GOD SAY WE SHOULD OBEY A TYRANT
I’m so sorry for the Degennaros, I remember the family to be a loving and close knit one. I also knew Janet and miss her. Wish she was still here. The ones who contributed to her death will be dealt with. It all will come back to them one day.
19. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves;
rather, leave this to God’s wrath; for it is
written, “ ‘Vengeance is Mine! I will
recompense,’ says the Lord.”
30. For we know Him Who has said,
“ ‘Vengeance belongs to Me. I will
recompense!’ says the Lord.” And
again, “The Lord will judge His people.”
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the
hands of the living God.
He's definitely not the same man you once knew. As of now concerning personal experience interacting with him, I can some him up in two words. Arrogant and Jerk.
How I miss my friend Janet and think about her more now of late. I have left the PCG finally and hope that one day their would be justice for Janet. She was a good person and a true friend
People only have the power over you that you allow them to have
I will definitely be praying for your and the family now I have heard your report. We are not accepted by any of the remnant groups in our area (Australia) who haven't, so far as we know, come out of apostasy. We are alone so we understand the craziness of isolation. Still since 24 in Kislev, 2021 we have been spiritually blessed in abundance.
I have been reading some of the archaeology reports from the "Let the Stones Speak". It displays the same mindset - but in a different context - that you have experienced in your family relations / ministry situation. I try to correct their wacky archaeology but am impolitely treated if I have "research leprosy". Even though I have money as a Private Researcher doing Court work and author backgrounding.
Know that the Body of Christ is alive outside these organised groups. You can pray for us and we for you and if needed help in what ways are possible in a world disconnected to its anchors.
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