" If I were trying to palm myself off as a
prophet, I would just spout a personal opinion at this point without worrying
about whether I was right or wrong, or what God says. But the above question
(Who are the 3 Shepherds) is an example of something we must wait to
see.......(Because I don't really know) But we might ask: will events of August
catapult God’s Work to something immediately the size of “medium,” “large” or
“colossal”? While I have ideas, I do not have the answer. We
will wait and see together." David C Pack, The Final
Anouncement
I was once in a discussion with someone over the
topic of Biblical intent, presentation and meaning when the other person said,
"Well, your just using human reasoning." I paused a moment and then said,
"What kind of reasoning do you use?" He just looked at me and said nothing.
I suspect he understood that anything either he or I said to each other about
the topic would be human reasoning. Because we
are human, it is the kind of reasoning we do. He knew better evidently, than to
tell me he used God's kind of reasoning. Not all are that wise.
Everything you and I have ever heard about what
the Bible says or means, or what this or that church or organization, prophet,
priest or king is doing, is merely a personal opinion and idea of what it or
they say and "know." We have this concoction of books we call the Bible,
written by multiple humans at different times and it will eternally be subject
to the ideas and opinions of humans. If one thinks it is seamless, coherent ,
inerrant and written either a code or put together as a puzzle, in my human
reasoning, one has not done their homework or would be too troubled by the
outcome to do so.
Everything Gerald Waterhouse ever uttered about
either who HWA was, how the world was going and what was surely going to happen
was merely his idea and opinion of the topics. All the hype and speculation
about the Place of Safety which, to me, evolved from speculation to fact was
just ideas and opinions and it still is to this day. There was not a bit of
reality and truth in the whole thing. Nothing actually came to pass as he
thought it would or should and he has been dead for a number of years now which
pretty much proves it. But I suppose that is just my idea and opinion. Or as
Dave Pack says, "we will have to see" which means I don't know and don't want
to take responsibility for declaring how it will all be and have that blow up in
my face. (It already has)
I always got a cautionary feeling in the ministry
when I head such phrases as "God is now moving...," "God is now going to....",
"Christ is inspiring...", "God wants us to...", and so on. It's where I
evolved the response "And you know this?" Our most recent addition to the
opinions and ideas gone berserk is of course Dave Pack of the Restored Church of
God. He just knows the mind of God and Christ. He knows their every meaning
and intent. He knows what they are up to , not in all the details, but in the
over all plan. It's awesome and quite overarching.
Dave says:
"You must see what they are NOT announcing, and
why they never will—and what GOD is bringing upon
them."
" An enormous and detailed prophecy is
now being carried out by God. He is preparing events
to soon bring His people back together—all of them."
"I have put in a great many hours preparing what
you read because there is value in getting people to think about what
will happen BEFORE it happens"
"In short, what does all this sudden growth
mean? Wherever you think God’s Church is, you surely would agree with
this much. God would have to inform His Church of what
He intended to do....... We would also have to know the year of
fulfillment EARLY ON or we would waste a tremendous amount of time researching,
analyzing and preparing for a prophecy that lay far in the distance. There
would have to be enough time to
prepare."
" Rather they are speaking out
against the meaning of the prophecy, thus choosing to
end their ministry—choosing to give
themselves no chance to continue serving God’s people.
This is because they have gone on public
record against how Christ is regathering His flock (recall
Matthew 12:30-32)—and
because they do not want to give up their positions of power."
One could go on forever quoting just how knowing
Dave Pack is about how it all was, is and is to come. He can turn an opinion
into a "fact" and an idea into a reality even if they are neither. Humans are
good at that. Ron Weinland was good at this until he wasn't. Well, on second
thought, he wasn't even good on turning opinions and ideas into anything
interesting. Truly, truly there was never born of woman one who could give a
more boring sermon no matter the topic. With Ron Weinland, his ideas and
opinions never got out of the gate to become even remote possibilities.
He just
didn't know it.
Sam Harris in Letter to a Christian
Nation observed:
"Along with most Christians, you believe that
mortals like ourselves cannot reject the morality of the Bible. We cannot say,
for instance, that God was wrong to drown most of humanity in the flood of
Genesis, because this is merely the way it seems from our limited point of view.
And yet, you feel that you are in a position to judge that Jesus is the Son of
God, that the Golden Rule is the height of moral wisdom, and that the Bible is
not itself brimming with lies. You are using your own moral intuitions to
authenticate the wisdom of the Bible — and then, in the next moment, you assert
that we human beings cannot possibly rely upon our own intuitions to rightly
guide us in the world; rather, we must depend upon the prescriptions of the
Bible. You are using your own moral intuitions to decide that the Bible is the
appropriate guarantor of your moral intuitions. Your own intuitions are still
primary, and your reasoning is circular.
We decide what is good in the Good Book. We read the
Golden Rule and judge it to be a brilliant distillation of many of our ethical
impulses. And then we come across another of God’s teachings on morality: if a
man discovers on his wedding night that his bride is not a virgin, he must stone
her to death on her father’s doorstep (Deut 22:13-21). If we are civilized, we
will reject this as the vilest lunacy imaginable. Doing so requires that we
exercise our own moral intuitions."
In other words, it is all just idea and opinion and we tend to
promote the ideas and opinions we like and shun the ones that are somewhat
dicey. In religion, the ones we like are also God's ideas and truths or we
would not do them but if we notice some problems with the story, the problem
noticing is human reasoning. As noted many times in the past, the Bible itself
is full of put downs for anyone who notices that the ideas presented are less
than satisfying, true or even plausible. How often have you been told "My ways
are not your ways says the Eternal", "There is a way that seems right to a man
but the ways thereof end in death", "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God",
or "God does not think as a man thinks." You can't win and you're never going
to be correct to someone who thinks your reasoning is just "human reasoning" and
theirs is of a higher order. People like this also cry "persecution" when
someone disagrees with them or points out the flaws in their thinking. Recall
the WCG receivership of 1979 was Satan's wrath visited upon the Church for being
the Church when in fact it really was about misappropriation of funds and palace
intrigue.
I have addressed the "know this that in the last days there will
be scoffers" concept in 2 Peter. The fact that that was directed to the folk in
the first and second century AD because members of the early church were
questioning the Apostles on what exactly "soon" and "time is short" meant since
people were dying off and the Apostle Paul had long ago died and wasn't the "we
shall be changed" he thought he and they would be. Those who observed the truth
of the matter and what was not true were labeled "scoffers." The motive of
"lust" was thrown in to paint them as evil of heart and intent. However, the
scoffers were correct in their observations. Their human reasoning won out over
the reasonings of those with their heads in the clouds. Dave Pack's head is in
the clouds as is Gerald Flurry and a host of others who would like you to think
they have a special line to God and what is really going on. They don't. They
are using human reasoning whitewashed with self delusion. Of course this is
merely my human reasoning speaking but as Dave Pack says, "we'll just have to
wait and see."
Dave Pack likes to think he is not uttering mere opinions
and human reasonings but rather just reporting what God is doing. He starts
from the wrong premise that the Minor Prophet Haggai is not history but up until
Dave Pack came along, unfulfilled prophecy. Using my human reasoning, that
strikes me as ridiculous. He won't take the title of Prophet because he
is merely and clearly explaining what God is thinking and doing. Besides Dr.
Bob has taken that title and Dave does not copy. He has to originate and let's
face it, Joshua the High Priest of Haggai trumps even the prophets. Probably
gets him off the hook as well if God does not come through at this time we can
rejoice in being given more time to repent and for the message to go out
etc...
The Churches of God and really, all religions and churches,
pastors and Apostles are 100% run on human reasonings and ideas expressed. Why?
Because they are human beings. So far they have been smart enough not to say
that God or the voices in their heads told them. From their forms of government
to the reasons why the faithful must or should turn some or all of their
resources over to someone, or as Dave says, "it all belongs to God and the
brethren," it is all human reasoning. "Thus saith the Lord" actually means,
even in scripture, "This is what I believe the Lord would thus say at this point
in my life and what I perceive as my calling." Everything Dave Pack has said in
his announcements are simply the ideas and opinions of Dave Pack. There seems to
be no room for being mistaken, misspoken or misunderstanding at this point in
Dave's mind. September may be different in this regard but I would not count on
that either. Human reasonings promoted as exactly what the Deity is also
thinking and doing is a tough nut to crack. Ron Weinland is in prison and he
still doesn't seem to understand why..
Dave says, "Some weeks ago, when explaining the year that the
prophecy is fulfilled, I listed perhaps two dozen reasons for 2013. There are
perhaps twice that many more reasons that have been listed by those of us inside
the process of learning what God is doing."
So Dave is saying that there really are 48 reasons why that
clearly show what God IS doing and the inside 16 have been having more fun than
a barrel of monkeys coming up with more than the brethren and certainly us can
imagine or probably comprehend at this time. Dave does not seem to understand
that his 24 released proofs are not all that airtight and impressive to us mere
mortals outside the knowing of Dave and of course God. If the secret and
remaining 24 are as logical, clear and obviously God ordained proof as the first
24, well.....we shall see. But all of these announcements of Dave over the past
several months of things which must shortly come to pass are merely ideas and
opinions of his own making and gone along with by those of like mind,
reasonings, ideas and opinion.
While we are not numbered among those insiders, we have every right to
notice, observe and have our own human views of how ridiculous this approach
Dave has taken to himself and the scriptures seems to those not under his
control and leadership. In our human reasonings and with our human ideas I
suspect we merely are trying to spare some sincere folk more religious and
theological abuse and all that it brings to the table to be dealt with.
