Tuesday, June 24, 2025

Why Choose Atheism?

It has been a long journey from absolute belief to skepticism and non-belief. I find these reasons for my own personal and ultimate conclusions about it all to be the reasons and issues that pushed me along towards my own conclusions, to date, about life, death and the ever after. 

Your experiences may vary...

While many prefer agnosticism (without knowledge) to a-theism (without God), agnosticism is simply atheism light.

One, a-Gnosticism,  claims to not believe in a God but maybe, who knows?  And the other, a-theism, simply does not believe. No matter, not knowing if there is a God and not believing there is a God both are a-theism. Without theism or belief

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https://housely.com/reasons-people-choose-atheism/

Becoming an atheist is rarely a decision made lightly. It often stems from a combination of intellectual inquiry, personal experiences, and philosophical considerations.

Here are 30 reasons why people reject religious belief, exploring the thought processes, emotional journeys, and societal factors that lead to atheism.

Lack of Evidence

For many atheists, the lack of empirical evidence supporting the existence of a deity is a decisive factor. They argue that belief in a god should meet the same rigorous standards of evidence as scientific claims. Without verifiable data like tangible miracles or undeniable divine interventions—they find no logical reason to accept theistic claims.

The Problem of Evil

The existence of suffering, evil, and injustice in the world poses a challenge to the idea of an all-powerful, benevolent deity. Atheists argue that a loving God would not allow atrocities like wars, genocides, or illnesses. The disconnect between religious teachings of a just God and the harsh realities of life reinforces atheistic perspectives.

Contradictions in Religious Texts

Atheists also often scrutinize religious scriptures and find contradictions, such as conflicting accounts of creation or historical inaccuracies. They also question moral teachings that condone actions like slavery, war, or discrimination. These inconsistencies and ethically problematic passages lead many to view religious texts as human constructs rather than divine revelations.

Scientific Understanding

As science advances, it provides natural explanations for phenomena that were once attributed to gods. The Big Bang theory, evolution, and neuroscience explain the origins of the universe, life, and consciousness without invoking a deity. Atheists often see science as a more reliable, evidence-based framework for understanding the world than religion.

Cultural Relativity of Religion

Religions vary widely based on geography, with different cultures worshiping different gods. Atheists argue that this cultural relativity suggests religion is a human invention rather than a universal truth. If one’s faith depends largely on where they are born, they reason, it undermines claims of absolute truth.

Indoctrination and Fear Tactics

Religions often use indoctrination from a young age and fear-based tactics, such as the threat of eternal damnation, to enforce belief. Atheists reject this as psychological manipulation, arguing that a truly loving God would not rely on fear or coercion to gain followers, further supporting their disbelief.

Moral Independence

Many atheists reject the notion that morality requires religion. They argue that ethical behavior is rooted in empathy, social contracts, and evolutionary biology, not divine commandments. By rejecting religion, they embrace the freedom to create their own moral code, which they see as more adaptable and relevant to modern society.

Negative Personal Experiences

Personal experiences, such as hypocrisy, abuse, or exclusion within religious institutions, often lead to disillusionment. For example, someone hurt by judgmental or corrupt religious leaders may question the validity of the faith they represent. These experiences can spark a deeper investigation into the foundations of religion, culminating in atheism.

The Burden of Proof

Atheists argue that the burden of proof lies with those making extraordinary claims, such as the existence of a deity. Since believers have yet to provide convincing evidence for their claims, atheists see no reason to accept them. They adopt a position of disbelief until presented with sufficient evidence, much like a jury evaluates a case.

Occam’s Razor

Occam’s Razor suggests that the simplest explanation is often the best. For atheists, natural explanations for the universe and life are simpler and more plausible than invoking a supernatural being. They argue that adding the concept of a god complicates the equation without adding explanatory value.

Religious Wars and Conflicts

The long history of violence in the name of religion, such as the Crusades, witch hunts, and modern terrorism, leads many to reject faith. Atheists view religion as a divisive force that promotes intolerance and hostility, contradicting claims that it promotes peace and love.

Equality and Inclusion

Many atheists are troubled by the discriminatory practices and teachings found in some religions, particularly against women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and other marginalized groups. They reject faiths that perpetuate inequality, finding atheism to be a more inclusive worldview that values human dignity over divine authority.

Freethinking Ideals

Atheists often value intellectual freedom and critical thinking above adherence to dogma. They see freethinking as the ability to question, challenge, and evaluate ideas without fear of divine retribution or societal condemnation. For many,religion imposes limitations on inquiry, particularly when it demands blind faith or unquestioning obedience to authority.

Disillusionment with Prayer

For many atheists, the perceived ineffectiveness of prayer plays a pivotal role in their rejection of religion. They notice that prayers often go unanswered or produce outcomes indistinguishable from chance. This leads to skepticism about the existence of a divine being who listens and responds. 

Naturalistic Worldview

Atheists who adopt a naturalistic worldview believe that everything in existence can be explained through natural laws and processes. They argue that invoking supernatural explanations for phenomena adds unnecessary complexity without providing tangible answers. 

Religious Hypocrisy

The gap between religious teachings and the actions of religious leaders and followers often leads to disillusionment. Scandals involving clergy, such as financial corruption, abuse, or moral failings, expose a contradiction between the principles preached and the behavior exhibited.

Desire for Autonomy

Atheists often reject religion because they value personal autonomy and freedom of thought. They resist the idea of external authorities dictating how they should live, think, or believe. Religious doctrines, which often prescribe specific moral codes, rituals, and life choices, can feel restrictive and incompatible with modern values of individualism.

Lack of Personal Revelation

While many religious believers cite personal experiences or revelations as the foundation of their faith, atheists often report an absence of such encounters. Without tangible or transformative experiences to affirm the existence of a deity, they find it difficult to maintain belief. 

Philosophical Materialism

Philosophical materialism—the belief that only physical matter exists—aligns closely with atheism. Atheists who adopt this view reject the supernatural entirely, including gods, spirits, and an afterlife. They argue that everything in the universe can be explained through material interactions and scientific principles. 

Disillusionment with Organized Religion

The perceived flaws of organized religion—such as political entanglement, commercialization, and authoritarianism—drive many toward atheism. Atheists often see religious institutions as more concerned with power and wealth than with genuine spiritual guidance. 

Exposure to Diverse Beliefs

Interacting with people from different religious and cultural backgrounds often leads to questions about the exclusivity of any one faith. Atheists may notice that every religion claims to be the ultimate truth, yet they offer contradictory narratives about the divine. 

A Scientific Mindset

Atheists with a scientific mindset often prioritize skepticism, evidence, and falsifiability. They apply these principles to religious claims and find them lacking in empirical support. Religious concepts such as miracles, creation stories, or divine intervention often fail to meet the rigorous standards of scientific inquiry, leading to their rejection. 

Lack of Coherence in Theology

Theological arguments often involve abstract concepts that atheists find incoherent or contradictory. For instance, the idea of an all-powerful, all-knowing God raises questions about free will and the nature of evil. Atheists also challenge the idea of infinite punishment for finite sins or the notion of divine omniscience coexisting with human autonomy. 

Religious Exclusivity

The exclusivity of many religions, which claim to be the sole path to truth or salvation, is a significant turn-off for atheists. They question how a just and loving God could condemn billions of people who follow other faiths or no faith at all. This exclusivity often appears arbitrary and unjust, leading atheists to reject the idea of a deity who demands unconditional loyalty to one specific doctrine.

Existential Freedom

Atheists often find freedom in the idea that life’s meaning is not dictated by an external deity but is something individuals create for themselves. This existential perspective allows them to live authentically, pursuing their passions and values without fear of divine judgment.

Cultural Modernization

As societies modernize, traditional religious beliefs and practices often become less relevant to people. Atheists see this secular shift as a natural progression toward reason and equality. In many developed nations, education, technological advancements, and social progress challenge old dogmas, paving the way for a more skeptical and humanistic worldview.

Rejection of Miracles

Atheists often view miracles as events that lack credible evidence or verifiable causes. For them, stories of divine intervention, such as miraculous healings or supernatural occurrences, can usually be explained through coincidence, psychological biases, or scientific phenomena. 

Psychological Insights

Psychological research shows that religious belief can originate from cognitive biases like pattern recognition or the need for agency. Atheists often reject faith after recognizing these psychological mechanisms at play. They argue that religion is a byproduct of human evolution and societal needs rather than evidence of divine existence, choosing to trust empirical findings over spiritual interpretations.

Focus on Humanity

Atheists often prioritize human welfare over divine worship, emphasizing compassion, empathy, and progress. They believe that addressing global challenges—such as poverty, climate change, and inequality—requires human action, not divine intervention. This focus on humanity aligns with their belief in self-reliance and collective responsibility rather than waiting for a higher power to intervene.

A Desire for Truth

Above all, many atheists are driven by a commitment to truth. They reject comforting illusions or unproven claims, choosing instead to base their worldview on observable, testable, and verifiable facts. For them, the pursuit of truth is intellectually fulfilling and a moral imperative, even if it leads to uncomfortable or unpopular conclusions.

54 comments:

Anonymous said...

Based on the title, didn’t even read it. And, knew without checking who wrote it. This doesn’t belong on a blog about Christian beliefs.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your post Dennis.
Unfortunately the past centuries history, written in blood with the loss and murder of countless millions of victims doesn’t help the cause of the Atheist community.
They could offer us nothing except a world devoid of faith, enforced with blood and untold suffering.
“ But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some sixty million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat “Men have forgotten God, that’s why all this has happened”, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
Let us not forget the horrors of the Khmer Rouge, Maos China, North Korea, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Laos, Albania where atheism was practiced with religious zeal and devotion at the point of a gun. Of all creatures on this planet, we, human kind are the most cruel and dangerous of species to inhabit it.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your post Dennis! We get so many looney tunes posters arguing over which strain of Armstrongism is the truest.

It’s nice to hear someone truly leave it all behind and not worry what a grand poobah, council, or glorious leader has to say.

Anonymous said...

Atheist's from the pulpit, living a double life with this flimsy sham name on this blog. Disgusting. Who's fooled? Not me.

Highly ironic you chose the colour purple for your pointers. Do you have multiple personality disorder ? Atheist today but Lording it over the members on Saturday. What hypocrisy. What Truth! Jealous of others faith in God no doubt. All happened before in scripture...the sons of Eli corrupt Priests Lording it over the people, the corrupt leaders and priests in Ezekiel, the corrupt mafia style religious system in the time of Jesus...

But you ALWAYS leaving one aspect out in attacking the COG. ALWAYS leaving the aspect of wages, salary MONEY out. Well i suppose even hypocrites like yourselves have to draw the line somewhere.

Anonymous said...

"...choosing instead to base their worldview on observable, testable, and verifiable facts."

Plant seeds entail three dimensional organic "computer programming." This tech is so advanced that I don't recall even sci fi movies touching the topic. And according to atheists who supposedly "base their worldview on observable, testable, and verifiable facts," this just magically happened. Me thinks the atheistic worldview is based on willful evasion.
Btw, and not forgetting the fungi and thousands of different species of bacteria in the soil required to make plant growth possible.

Anonymous said...

When we are studying scripture objectively, we ask ourselves "Who is the targeted audience for the message?"

So, I find my self asking, who is the targeted audience for Dennis's post? The Armstrongites who come here to argue with us about dna and BI? I think not. Those folks are actively working to refute dna so that they can continue believing HWA's teaching including BI, not rejecting it it and going off to become mainstream Christians or, more extremely, atheists.

Does he think believe that he can convince the devout Christians who regularly post here that atheism will provide a better, more ethical, loving lifestyle than can the teachings of Jesus Christ? No. To them, Dennis's post will simply be seen as a prayer request!

There are atheists and agnostics who occasionally read here, however they've already bought into a life without God. Most likely, they've already run across the material Dennis has presented. There may be some acknowledgement or faint applause from that sector.

I just don't know. Atheism is not something you feel by the seat of your pants, as one might from belief in God. It wasn't God who burned us, and ripped us off, it was HWA and his gullible lackeys. That experience is what causes the great big difference between ex-WCG atheists and science-based atheists. They're just not the same.

Anonymous said...

Amen

Anonymous said...

I understand the perspective, but religion and Christianity has wreaked its own carnage upon the earth from the beginning. Even in scripture, if one adds up the number of humans killed by, or whose murder was authorized by "God" (Priests?), is approximately 24,994, 828 not counting in the Flood Myth of Noah. Satan gets credit for a mere 10 of Job's sons and that was with the permission of the Deity. The "faithful" really have precious little to do with keeping the death counts down historically. Non-belief is not the exclusive motivator. Non-belief does not cause unbridled war. Those reasons are usually political faith or no faith. IMHO

Anonymous said...

Dennis, please don't ever lose sight of the value of agnosticism. One of the most corrosive human qualities is arrogance, and one of the most stultifying is rigid certitude. You don't find any evidence of a God, that's fine. You see no reason to worship a being you can't find, that's fine. But, just as aggressive theism gave us the Crusades, aggressive atheism gave us the Khmer Rouge, Mao, and Stalin. If you look up in the night sky and don't see a god, that's understandable. But the awe you feel looking up at that sky should help foster a sense of humility and unknowing, and a desire to learn more, rather than to impose your current knowledge on others. Atheism may have great merit as a working hypothesis, but leaves much to be desired as a firm conviction.

Anonymous said...

Eh, it's basically just sticking your head in the sand. The existence of God interferes with what I want so I will ignore His existence and continue on my merry way.

Ed said...

I am sure that some of the people I know think that I am "mad at God" because I doubt that he exists. I also know people who are sure that God answers prayers. My answer to that is a question. How do you know? If you get something you wanted when you prayed for it did God give it to you or would you have gotten the desired outcome regardless of whether you prayed for it or not? People assume alot that simply can't be proven.

Anonymous said...

Luke 18:8....when the Son of man comes will He find the faith upon the earth?

BP8 said...

There is a lot here to consider, but once we remove the negative personal experiences, subjective opinion, and condemnations against FALSE religion and practices, there is not much left to address that hasn't already been refuted. You can find on YouTube debates between the best and most prominent atheists and Christian apologists that's ever lived, on the subjects of objective morality, evil, evidence, science, and Bible contradictions, each providing the best arguments they have on the given subject. I'm not going to duplicate their work, but there are a few things I would like to address.

Atheists argue that a loving God would not allow war, sickness, evil and suffering. But why do those things exist in the first place? The atheist has no answer. The Bible is the only source of information on these matters. Either its explanation is true as to the causes or we have no explanation at all!

What's the alternative? If there be no God or Satan to blame, Occam's Razor would suggest that mankind is the sole responsible agent, the same mankind that demands intellectual freedom, personal autonomy, freedom of thought, and the right to do as he pleases. What has that produced up to now?

The freedom to establish one's own moral code? Which code is best? Nazi Germany's? The southern states of 1860? Without objective morality who is to say? One is just as good as the other!

Atheists also challenge the idea of infinite punishment for finite sins? So do I, but I am in in the minority. All this shows is that "majority" opinion does not always exhibit accurately Biblical truth.

Atheists also say, "as societies modernize, traditional religious beliefs and practices often become less relevant to people". They see this secular shift as a natural progression toward reason and equality. The funny thing is, God sees it as something else entirely.

This " secular shift " is not only predicted in Scripture (see 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 4:3-4, 2 Thess 2:3), but is another powerful example that the prophetic word of God is true and being fulfilled. If not, where's the evidence that this Cultural Modernization is actually working and bearing fruit?

Focus on humanity?
"Atheists prioritize human welfare, compassion, empathy . . ."? Have we forgotten what the Bible calls PURE religion? Is not the Golden Rule the absolute best all time expression on how humans should function?

" Atheists believe that addressing global challenges (poverty, climate change, inequality) requires human action"? How's that working out for us? We cant even agree on what the real problems are must less the solutions. Collective responsibility is a pipe dream. The Bible insists man doesn't even know the way to peace. If you want to discredit Scripture, start there! Judging from man's past, the future is NOT bright.

A desire for truth is commendable and something we all share. But WHAT IS TRUTH? Scripture gives 2 powerful definitions (John 14:6, 17:17). I have yet to see anything produced by atheists that compares.

Lee Walker said...

A genuine belief is not “chosen.” It is the honest understanding or conclusion one has reached on a matter at any given time regarding what the objective truth of a matter is. Atheists have come to the conclusion that there is no God, yet they do so without affirmative proof. You can’t prove a negative.

I served overseas with a fellow who was a vehement just-short-of-atheist. He rarely discussed issues of politics or whatever, but in a religion discussion, he suddenly became very talkative. (This was back when you could have un-PC discussions in that context.) He vehemently criticized any concept of deity.

Later, after the discussion, I asked him why he was so vehement. It was, after all, not like him at all. He acknowledged that you cannot prove negative, and thus he could not say that he was an atheist. He had to hold out that little sliver of acknowledgment of the possibility that there is indeed a God. But beyond that, he said the reason for his… position(?) was that he did not want to give up his independence.

Now understand, we were on deployment in a hostile-fire zone. We were in uniform, armed, and could be ordered to go kill people we had never met at any given moment. We had to stay on post unless we got special permission to leave. We couldn’t quit our jobs without incurring legal sanction. We had to maintain physical standards. We had to salute people based on little emblems they wore on their chests. We were in the most NON-independent status an American citizen can be in short of prison. And he is worried about losing his “independence” if he accepted the existence of God?

He meant that he would be acknowledging that there was Someone out there who could override every thought, feeling, or conviction he might have, and be totally justified in doing so regardless of the facts. (In other words, a celestial Armstrong.😁)

THAT was the independence he wanted to keep. Yet, he had to acknowledge that he couldn’t rule out the existence of God.

Each of us must reach our own conclusions on such matters. But even as I try to illustrate the historical fraud of Armstrong “True Church” succession so that Armstrongists reached a conclusion based on facts and not that pseudo-authority, atheists need to be sure they are acting on the facts and not a reaction against religious abuses.

Anonymous said...

Where did life come from? Thats the only mental hurdle...and made harder by conceptually wondering where a potential creator originated. Something had to just be....something truly from nothing if using a creator story.

Big bang or some other version or explanation for how it...at least you can suggest to yourself its just beyond our current intellectual paygrades. I can accept that far more easily. But a creator solves nothing for me even if true. Id wonder where this Creator came from and be even more perplexed by the something from nothing story.

As for religion or the bible specifically.....as Asimov said....."Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever created"

For me that was the case anyway. If Id never read the bible I possibly would be less tainted to the possibility of theism re-entering my life

jim said...

It's a pity that Armstrongism drives many to agnosticism and atheism because in Armstrongism they were barely introduced to Jesus Christ.

Anonymous said...

3.01 pm, In Armstrongism, members were also barely introduced to a moral code as well. Herb made his church a North Korean type dictatorship where they were only fed spiritual milk. My first minister complained from the pulpit about members reading self help books, and personally informed me that I should throw away any such books. His 'counsel' about difficulties with other members always amounted to allowing the unrepented to have their own way. They were the master race, which was very self serving.
His members gave a fortune to the church, yet after sometimes decades, are still morally confused.

Anonymous said...

Dennis:

You have given us an omnibus approach to the arguments of atheism. How does one respond to all this within the boundaries of a blog? And I believe there are published, theistic responses to your 30 points. I will have to answer with an over-arcing response that will seem general instead of tailor-made for each issue you put forward. Human consciousness will be my entry point this time around.

Where does human consciousness come from? Can it be the simply the sum of billions of chemical reactions taking place in a material brain? If consciousness is simply chemistry, assembled in the womb from biological raw materials, then we should be able to replicate it with chemistry. This is nowhere on the horizon. There is no chapter in chemistry textbooks about the advances in producing human consciousness. A physically based consciousness is a requirement for modern atheists because they posit competition and natural selection for the progressive development of all that we know. And competition and natural selection only operate in the physical realm on physical systems. Atheists even posit a multi-verse in which our universe is one permutation among untold numbers of permutations that permits human life to exist. Given large numbers of universes with random sets of physical constants, odds are one universe will win the competition and have the constants necessary to permit human life. The atheistic conception of reality is pretty much about selection operating on randomness and large numbers as a replacement for God.

So, let me move upstream from the arguments you present. Human consciousness contemplates beginnings and endings. That is the framework for what I am writing now. The little lizards that play in the desert sun in my back yard don’t think about the proton and eschaton of the cosmos. And there is nothing in the engine of mutation and natural selection to make such ruminations useful to them in their competition for life. Human self-awareness and the ability to contemplate origins, endings and intentions are without etiology in material nature.

Atheism relies on natural processes for the explanation for everything. It must. It has no recourse. And there are many problems with this. Atheism points to mutation and natural selection which operate within the boundaries of a physical reality but it does not explain where the reality came from. Why do the hypothetical randomness and large numbers exist? Theism proposes that natural processes cannot be recruited to explain everything. So, theists propose a Deus ex Machina and that is God the Creator. Absent any empirical evidence from atheism on the inception of reality itself (human consciousness is a sub-category), theism is far more plausible. So, the theory that natural processes account, some way or another, for everything proposed by many atheists doesn’t cut it.

In a nutshell.

Scout

Anonymous said...

‘Why choose Atheism?
1 Indoctrination and fear tactics.
2 Moral independence.
3 The problem of evil.
Dennis you’re have to do better than that.
Atheists are not immune to embracing indoctrination and fear tactics as history has attested, as we have observed even during our lifespans.
Moral independence? Whose morals and by what standard to we measure that with? Even atheist regimes have gone to war with each other and waged war against others who do not share their moral standards.
The problem with evil is something that humanity wrestles with across all political, religious and cultural lines.
Atheists are not immune from seeking and imposing their vision of paradise upon others as we have witnessed.They as well as Christians are easily capable of great evil.
We are all ‘tarred’ with the same brush of longing for that which always seems just out of reach.
You are no different from a Christian who is seeking that which is unseen and seemingly unavailable to us all at this time.
So atheists and Christians look together and ponder what could be …………
And yet One came in the flesh and witnessed to us what could be.
We have failed Him. But that is not the end of the story.
Thanks for sharing your views.


Lee Walker said...

There are a lot of reasons former Armstrongists often head in that direction. It relates to why many go liberal politically as well.

The most basic aspect is the reactionary tendency that the Armstrong culture promotes. False dichotomies, “ditch-jumping,” call it what you will. The tendency is that if one thing is wrong, then the opposite extreme must be right. Or at least that was a strawman tactic used by defenders. But it represents the culture.

Other elements would be things like spiritual burnout. They had used up their capacity of dogmatic spirituality. And so that was the last thing they wanted when they left. Take this one step further, and they are disregarding God entirely.

And one aspect mentioned by the guy over at Painful Truth: Credit to Armstrong, his movement did demonstrate fallacies in mainstream religions. I confess, if I were to suddenly “find Jesus” again and start my own church, we would do the base-level Leviticus 23 liturgy (whether with commanded rest or not) and probably take Anglo-Israelism as a common-sense conclusion. And regardless of the position on soul sleep, the Resurrections would feature a lot more in teaching than they do in that Baptist church — Seventh Day or Sunday – down the road. Mainstream belief and practice just doesn’t appeal to most former Armstrongists, and independent practice is meaningless to them.

And all of this is especially the case for former Armstrongist youth.


Conclusion: “I came out of an authoritarian/abusive conservative religion. So I’m going to be a free-thinking liberal secularist.”

Anonymous said...

Good scripture to use, it is never mentioned in the Churches of God magazines or worship services, but there is a current epidemic raging in Western Christian world, of a epidemic of Pastors and Ministry losing their faith in God but not losing their jobs. Atheists in the pulpit. So you have an ongoing very real epidemic of godless Ministry.

Are Sabbath Christians expected to think this epidemic isnt also raging amongst the ministry of the Churches of God ????
Well i strongly believe it is. You only have to look in truth at these blogs and COG Ministry are all over them, run by them, encouraged by them. That's the real plain truth of 2025.

How God is going to deal with this situation and these people is not known yet. Looking back at scripture may hold a clue. But it is the height of foolishness to think God doesn't care what they've done to his sheep and continue to do.

Anonymous said...

Lies.

Lee Walker said...

11:16 PM Wednesday, why would God take so much more notice about such things going on in the cult tradition of a failed advertising guy who passed away almost 40 years ago than he does in the rest of Christianity? Other faith traditions have far more impact on humanity and world events.

I’m sure there are Armstrongist ministers who really don’t believe. Maybe they did it the beginning, but after a while, it was just a job to them. 1995 probably broke a few out them. What they should be doing, is using their position to help expose the fraud of their child-molesting spiritual patriarch and the religion he created.

https://catsgunsandnationalsecurity.blogspot.com/2025/03/reference-to-followers-of-armstrongism.html?m=1

Anonymous said...

Go on then. Go. Au reviour. Yet you stay. And you stay in power. Do you actually mean any words that you type, with all these untrue disguises?

Anonymous said...

In fake name 'Lee Walker' 12:49 comment, you see a brazen truthful remark, as to why non-believing ministry abuse God believing/Jesus Christ believing sheep. "Why would God take notice...."
Thats why UCG can never let the Member survey stop. There needs to be much more accountability.

Anonymous said...

And the frequency of such articles is also ridiculous. If people want to push atheism, that's their right, but it should be done honestly by having a blog dedicated to the topic. Instead they "hijack" a believers site to push their religion. Note how Christ taught in synagogues or had crowds come to him. He did not force himself on people by preaching on street corners.

Anonymous said...

There are many reasons for me to leave the WCG about 50 years ago. The leadership was oppressive. Their teachings were terribly flawed. But in my mind, i was able to separate the church from basic Christianity. Neither the WCG nor the Roman Catholic Church or any other religious organization is a perfect representative of Christianity. I didn't think I had to go from WCG to atheism. I can reject the WCG without walking away from basic Christianity. To jump to atheism creates a whole other set of problems and difficulties. As the apologist Norman Geisler said, "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist." We know that science has always been and will always be limited in what it can study. For instance, before the microscope, you couldn't have imagined the world of microorganisms. The existence of a God is not something that science can address. But, one has to ask, "Is it more reasonable to believe than to not believe in a God?" Atheism can't explain the "first cause" or "Why is there something rather than nothing?" I didn't give up on science or medicine because some scientists rejected the germ theory of disease or that some doctors promoted the transorbital lobotomy.

DennisCDiehl said...

First of all, you and others have totally missed the point of the 30 points posted why some choose atheism. Also, and again, I did not write the article. Not one word of it is mine. I posted it, with link, because it resonated with my journey and the topics and questions that presented themselves to me after WCG and generally all my life even before it.

It is not a list of things to be proved or refuted. It is not meant to make us struggle over what is consciousness or any other question we can come up with. It's just the areas of inquiry that those who move over to non-belief find themselves up against and take a position on leading to unbelief. They are NOT ARGUMENTS I HAVE PRESENTED. The author was simply listing what areas of inquiry start the journey towards unbelief for some. Simple as that.

DennisCDiehl said...

What are you afraid of? The blog is not exclusively about Christian beliefs. It is about the various journeys out of the WCG and the debris it left in its collapse. It's about the moving on, for better or worse of those who understand they were hooked by a cult, embarrassing as that is since we all thought we were smarter than that.

John said...

Religious Exclusivity
The exclusivity of many religions, which claim to be the sole path to truth or salvation, is a significant turn-off for atheists. They question how a just and loving God could condemn billions of people who follow other faiths or no faith at all. This exclusivity often appears arbitrary and unjust, leading atheists to reject the idea of a deity who demands unconditional loyalty to one specific doctrine.
******
Yes, atheists may "....question how a just and loving God could condemn billions of people who follow other faiths or no faith at all."

And I wouldn't blame them for coming to that conclusion about religions, split-offs from the former WCG, etc.

Apparently, none of them believe Jesus' words that follow:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Was/is God involved with any of those religions that believe God condemns billions? Are we hearing a lot of lies from many? Will God condemn billions of people?

Time will tell...

John

Lee Walker said...

“Fake name.” From someone too scared to give his name at 1:52 AM.

Moderator policy here prevents me from properly responding to the slander. I can be contacted on TruthSocial: LTWalker03 or Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tom.ng.58367/ (“Tom” is for my middle name Thomas, both of which sometimes appear in my political activism — a far more important effort than anything going on here. No disrespect, administrators.)

In any case, my point is that your little cult really doesn’t amount to the clichéd hill of beans. If somebody was not personally touched by it, they probably would not even know it exists. And it is not the “True Church”: https://catsgunsandnationalsecurity.blogspot.com/2025/03/reference-to-followers-of-armstrongism.html?m=1 The fact you won’t be able to substantively respond to proves my point. But if you wish to try, I am available on TruthSocial. I would love for you to try.




Anonymous said...

Dennis 6:37

I sorted through what you wrote looking for SPS and was not sure if I found one. I think you are saying that this is just a list and is not offered for debate. To what end? What did you think should have happened?

Scout

Anonymous said...

I believe that God's plan of salvation is not as exclusive as some think. He did say that he would like to see all men saved (2 Peter 3:9). All mankind knows in their heart that there is a God and right from wrong (Romans). Any plan of salvation must be inclusive, or else God would end up with a "small market share" of mankind being saved. If we are saved by grace through faith, then you don't have to pass a theology exam to be saved. Living faith is abiding by the law written in our hearts, doing what is right. Faith is the means of salvation, works the evidence of that faith. I think we will be surprised as to who is in heaven and who is not. Some will be told, "depart from me, I never knew you." To others we might ask, "What are you doing here, I thought you would be one of the last persons I would see here."

Anonymous said...

And yet here you are, playing the fool by constantly checking out this blog to see what you can get your rocks off on. What a fool!

Anonymous said...

The simplest form of life is more likely to have always existed than the most complicated form if you had to choose one intelligently. And if you think your super complicated impossible to replicate god has simply "always existed".....then stop belittling me for comtemplating how a bacteria may have come about a billion years ago. it would be alot easier to simply use the christian expalanation of.....its simple! bacteria and organisms have always existed! duh!

Lee Walker said...

12:21 PM — Problem there is that bacteria and such haven’t always existed. Think Big Bang.

Kind of goes back to not having the faith to be an atheist.

Anonymous said...

Perverted hatefilled false accusation yet again.
Sabbath Christians have religious freedom to defend their beliefs, from two faced, rebels from within the ministry like you, who hate believers.

Lee Walker said...

Not sure exactly who you’re targeting here, Fool-anon 11:29 PM. It looks like you just keep piling your responses up on the same little thread. But if it’s me…

I have to admit, my wisdom has led me to be mistaken for religious ministry. Back in formative years of UCG, I submitted the number of ideas to both AIA and some local congregations. One minister in the congregation two time zones away submitted a paper I had sent him to the local board. Friends of mine in the congregation sent me a copy of the meeting minutes were talked about the minister, presenting a paper “from Lee Walker, an elder in Missouri.” 😁

I actually still stand by a lot of the substance of that paper, so I have completely rejected the religion.

Other vaguely ministerial things I did: A short-lived spoof newsletter that lasted three issues before a minister got mad at a PG-rated joke I made. And later l did give sermonettes during my year in ICG. But that’s it for my ministerial experience in the Armstrong tradition.

I should say I made reference to the latter experience when I was congratulated by instructors at Army AIT for my outstanding ability to give mock military intelligence briefings in class. That goes to the one thing in my life that does warrant me being called a “minister of God” — my service to my country and state (per Romans 13).

Hope that clears things up.

Lee Walker said...

My apologies if it was not directed at me. However,
1. You or somebody like you did level false accusations at me with some similar tones.
2. Administrators and moderators, you need to develop a better convention for tracking who says what.

Lee Walker said...

Ed, you make a very good point. However, atheism does exactly the same thing — affirmatively, assuming something which cannot be proven.

That said, as for your “how do you know?” question, I will push back on that just a bit. Things like that remind me of the title of Gloria Loring’s book: “Coincidence Is God's Way of Remaining Anonymous.” I never read the book, but the title does make point worthy of consideration.

Anonymous said...

the big bang created your god or bacteria? how did your god come from nothing? i dont understand your meaning

your suggesting that the only way something can be created from nothing is that something else living that has always existed is what created that life? do you not realize how unscientific that is? and by unscientific i mean without logic?

my counter is that man has always existed and earth was pollinated by another planet. youll say thats insanity but its no different than your "faith". if youre going to suggest the answer to the question is that something somewhere has always been alive then it could be anything that pollinated mankind. literally anything

Lee Walker said...

You suggested “bacteria and organisms have always existed” as an alternate explanation to God always having existed. I pointed out that bacteria and organisms clearly haven’t always existed. On the other hand, there is no evidence that God has not always existed. So your alternative is invalid.

BTW, while you are very good at it, playing dumb doesn’t help your case.

Lee Walker said...

* no evidence that God has NOT always existed

Anonymous said...

If that's the point, you made it easy to miss with a title that suggests intent to persuade, everyone would see it as meaning:"Why (should you) Choose Atheism?" Or "Why One Should Choose Atheism." You could have made it a little more clear from the outset by using a title more like the original article, "Why I Chose Atheism," etc. In communications I've had to learn to be accountable for another person misperceiving my intent. In this case if it's true that all of us have missed your point then it might be a problem with how you made the point. And did you really expect nobody to refute the post? No you didn't expect that.

Anonymous said...

... or you could have titled the post "Why Some Choose Atheism" instead of "Why Choose Atheism." You KNOW there is a big difference in meaning and implication of the two. Of course people are going to miss the point that you intended the latter.

Anonymous said...

there is no evidence that god has not existed. there is also no evidence that leprechauns dont live under your porch. if you suggest leprechauns live under your porch i have no evidence to refute you

Lee Walker said...

(Actually, I used to have a family of ‘possums living under my front step. But my cat kept them in check, so they were not a problem.)

“[M]y counter is that man has always existed…” There is overwhelming evidence that man has NOT always existed. Thus, it is invalid as a counter to God always existing. Those two alternatives are not equivalent. Mine might be the case; yours cannot be the case.

Anonymous said...

leprechauns created man. prove me wrong. your being hardheaded here. my point wasnt that man or bacteria has always existed. id be a fool to suggest anything has always existed in the form it exists today. but just like your god....i could imagine something and just say the most ridiculous thing and say you cant refute me so that makes it not only possible but true. im playing your game and your so confused by it you dont realize that youre refuting me with the exact argument i was openly mocking you and other believers with

Lee Walker said...

Fool-anon At 4:40 AM: “id be a fool to suggest anything has always existed in the form it exists today.”

Yes. Self-awareness is always good. I congratulate you.

RSK said...

I was unaware that this was exclusively a "believers" site!

Anonymous said...

Some here would say that God created mankind.

Others here would say that mankind created God.

In either case, there was some form of intelligent design at work.

Byker Bob said...

Anyone recall all the movies and TV shows which depicted time travel? Scientists who were the voice of moderation always cautioned the time travelers. Remember what they said? "Watch, but don't touch! Do not do anything which could set off a chain of events which would alter us in the present! If someone is about to die in their time, you must not save them! That person, if they live extra years, could cause very bad things to happen in our own time!"

We are living in the tail end of the last possible era when it will be possible to go back to pictured, filmed, or written materials to get at truth! Why? Just look at what is being done with AI! Aided by AI, people are creating new materials which are inadvertently being added to historic ones. Very realistic renderings of new old school autos which never actually existed are being produced. Like it or no, these fall into collections of materials on the real vintage vehicles. Same way with cartoons! AI packages exist which produce 1940s retro mascot cartoons, in which a coke bottle or human brain is personified, given eyes, nose, and mouth, arms and legs, and a voice. Invariably, these will be mixed with the originals and the layman will no longer be able to tell the difference when comparing to the originals. The same can be done with documents, news items, and artifacts which support history as we've come to know it.

I really fear for those who must live as those trends exacerbate! We all need a basic framework of reliable facts upon which to base structured lives! Those of us who have that, and have lived with it for decades, will eventually die off. Those without it will eventually become the predominant percentage of humanity. It does not require much imagination to understand what will be happening at that point in time!

BB

Anonymous said...

"Lee Walker" 12:49 Why would God take so much more notice?
Because people are baptised in the name of Jesus Christ and that distinctively means alot stands the test of time.

Anonymous said...

The message this blog gives at times is very confusing. That lies at the feet of the blog masters and not the more innocent commentators who think this is a 'believers site'.