21 Years Ago...David C. Pack said:

 "I want to make a statement about...me.."

(One of many to come over the next 21 years))

...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...

(Prophecy fulfilled)

"I am telling you, if I go off into strange ideas,  misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me."

(Which I have. Which I will soon be accused of doing and you'll have to decide who is right, which will be me.)

 "I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me!"

(And fully intend to do, hoping you will,  and did)

" I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z"

(See...told ya)

." Do you understand what I'm saying?"

(Hope not and evidently didn't)

 "Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me."

(See..told ya)

" Do you understand what I'm saying brethren?"

(Hope not and evidently didn't)

" Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it..."

(See...told ya)

"And  I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me..."

(Hope not and evidently didn't)

"But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."

(Well I am and obviously did, but it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z)

David C Pack

December 12, 1998

While I know I have posted this remarkable quote several times along the way, it has always stood out to me as the defining insight into Dave Pack's own recognition of his grandiose and self serving perspectives on who he thinks he is and what he thinks he knows.

Dave is not who he thinks he is and knows virtually nothing about the Book he claims to have studied more than any man, except that which he has concocted in his head.  It is the template for all that has followed and why, while even being so wrong so often, he still has followers. 

 In this one quote, Dave revealed his own understanding of how he does and would manipulate any congregation or work he found himself pastoring in or being over. Actually being over is the only way Dave knows how to be. He has never worked successfully for anyone.  It is the one prophecy that Dave has ever made that has come 100% to pass as we are now able to look back over his many mistaken notions about himself and "the things which must shortly come to pass" which didn't and won't. 

How wrong does a man have to be and how often before those who follow such foolishness wake up to what everyone but them seems to see? Why don't they see it? If they do see it, why do they stay?

 How long can you sit in a Restored Church of God congregation listening, month after month and year after year ever backing up to start yet again another cycle of "soon" and "this time for sure" and more self serving  that comes out of the mind of David C. Pack?  How many times does one have to be 100% wrong before one stops wasting their precious resources and life time on yet another foolish shephard? 

Why don't Restored Church of God members and ministry recognize yet another one man show going very  badly and leaving a trail of tears in its wake?

And what about you Restored Church of God Pastors, Elders and Deacons?  How much denial of reality can you convince yourselves of?  Do you think as I did for a time watching the antics of the Armstrongs and then the Tkaches that "things will get better" and "Everything will be OK.  This is God's Work"?  You are postponing your own day of having to face the reality of Dave's fantasies. 

I know what it feels like to watch your good intentions and hopeful ideals fall apart as time erodes credibility. I know that niggly feeling of perhaps having made a huge mistake in choosing a church or comfortable belief, which then overwhelms as foolishness unfolds. 

I know how it feels to wonder how do I get out of this intact, still married, loved by my children retaining all my friends and survive. The fact is , you won't and most don't. The go along to get along won't work forever.  I know you feel you  have come too far to turn back now. I know you  hope it will get somehow get better.

And it only gets worse.

In the above quote, now 21 years ago, Dave Pack has done EVERYTHING he said he would not do. He even outlined the formula for how he was going to do it. He did it because he feared (or knew)  at the time of saying this, that this is exactly what he would do when push came to shove and it did. Dave Pack might not know God or Jesus, but Dave Pack knows Dave Pack. 

 Men like Dave Pack work for no one. Others work for them.  They take no advice and see their views on everything as the correct ones.  When they want to appear brilliant, they tell you a lot about "I" and "Me".  When they fail, it's always going to be "We" and "You" and mostly you. 

Ron Weinland pulled the same stunt during his own spectacularly foolish predictions a decade ago and blamed the people for not understanding that it was all "spiritual".  Actually it was all Bullshit as is just about everything that comes out of Dave Pack's mouth with regard to all things theological.  

He's also a lousy teacher on Creationism...

I simply recall Dave's quote with the hope that those who may not have ever heard it then can see it now and  how it has played out over the past 21 years since Dave said...

"...But I'll tell you what. I'm not going anywhere." as he left Global to create his own house of theological cards.  

That's pretty telling for a guy who claims to see himself spoken of in the scriptures and The Elijah to come.  

Self-Appointed So-Called COG Leader/Prophet Disturbed That People Do Not Believe That Armstrognism Practices "1st Century Christianity"

Our favorite self-appointed prophet of the improperly named "continuing" Church of "god" is NOT happy that a web site took a swipe at "Armstrongism." Bwana Bob Thiel believes that the COG does teach 1st century Christianity and that he is now the sole agent of God actively practicing it in the 21st century.

The physical head of the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God was the late Herbert W. Armstrong. What he taught has been derided as “Armstrongism.” What were some of those teachings? Was the old Worldwide Church of God some type of weird cult or did it strive to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints? Is “Armstrongism” improperly maligned and falsely described at GotQuestions.com? Are concepts such as the tribes of Israel, ‘soul sleep,’ and three resurrections unique to Herbert W. Armstrong or were they long part of original Nazarene Christianity? What about various holidays and Christianity? In this video, Dr. Thiel goes over his early experiences with “Armstrongism” as well as gives scriptures about persecutions that would affect Christians.

Here is what Got Questions (see below) said about Armstrongism that sent our glorious dear prophet over the edge, so much so, that he had to do a video about it. For some reason though he failed to mention the abject corruption that has plagued the church for the last 80 some years, the hundreds of splintered factions, the sexual assaults by church leaders, the theft of tithe money by top leaders for their own use, the rapes, the pedophilia, the stalkings and other perversions committed by leaders, the preaching of false doctrines that have enslaved members, and the current batch of perverted COG leaders leading splinter cults. He also fails to mention that his self-appointment is 100% against 1st century beliefs and practices of the church. 

Any sane person knows that Bob Thiel and the COG as a whole do NOT practice 1st-century Christianity. The church has always been one that was growing and evolving as it grew.  Besides, how can it practice 1st-century Christianity when most of the COG's today brag that they practice pre-1986 Armstrongism?

Question: "What is Armstrongism? Is the Worldwide Church of God a cult?"

Answer: Armstongism refers to the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong, which became the teaching of the Worldwide Church of God. These teachings were often at odds with traditional Christian beliefs and at times were explicitly in contradiction to the Bible. The most well-known of Armstrong’s teachings is that of Anglo-Israelism. This is the belief that modern-day Jews are not the true physical descendants of Israel. Armstrong believed the lost tribes of Israel had migrated to Western Europe and that the present-day British and Americans were actually the heirs to God’s covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Armstrong believed that this knowledge was the key factor in understanding the prophetic passages of Scripture and that it was his mission to proclaim this message in preparation for the end times.

These beliefs of the Worldwide Church of God were not new and were rooted in an anti-Semitic misinterpretation of Scripture. The Bible is clear that God has not replaced Israel with any other nation and that His plans for Israel are right on schedule and will come to pass after “the fullness of the Gentiles” have come into the Kingdom (Romans 11:25). We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency (Romans 3:3–4). To attempt to revise God’s plans for both Israel and the Church is to call into question His nature, His sovereignty, His omniscience, and His faithfulness.

In addition, Armstrong taught that at death one is in a sleep-like state until Jesus returns to earth. There would then be three resurrections. The first would be of the faithful Christians. Second would be the bulk of the population who would have a second chance to accept the gospel and be saved, despite the clear teaching of Scripture that there is no “second chance” for salvation after death (Hebrews 9:27). Third would be those that had acted in such a way as to be ineligible for the second chance. They, along with the group from the second resurrection that rejected the gospel, would then be punished. The Worldwide Church of God did not believe in eternal punishment in hell, but rather a complete destruction through fire, i.e., annihilationism. The Bible, however, is clear that there are two resurrections, one to eternal life in heaven for believers and one to eternal damnation for unbelievers (Revelation 20:4–14). Here again, the theories of Armstrongism and the Worldwide Church of God directly contradicted the Word of God.

Armstrong also taught that followers of Christ should remain true to all of the teachings in the Old Testament. Thus, he held the Sabbath to be holy, and in Jewish tradition the Sabbath was observed from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. He further believed that the Old Testament festivals such as Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles must be celebrated. The Worldwide Church of God taught that modern Christians should follow the dietary laws and tithe (up to 30 percent). Armstrongism was only one of many salvation-by-works philosophies that look to the keeping of the Old Testament laws as a means of salvation. But the Bible is clear that the opposite is true. Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone, because the Law saves no one. “A man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16). Clearly, the philosophies of Armstrongism and the Worldwide Church of God were just that—worldly philosophies that seek to deny the only means of salvation, the exchange at the cross of our sin for the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), and replace it with the Old Testament Law, which Jesus came to fulfill because we could not.

After the death of Hebert W. Armstrong, the Worldwide Church of God began to embrace a more orthodox understanding of the Christian faith. Armstrong’s successors, Joseph Tkach, Sr., and Joseph Tkach, Jr., have led the Worldwide Church of God in a more orthodox direction, rejecting British Israelism, accepting the Trinity, etc. The organization/denomination now refers to itself as Grace Communion International. A brief history of the transition from Armstrongism to Grace Communion can be found at www.gci.org/aboutus/history. Although Grace Communion has come a long way toward biblical doctrine, there are still some serious errors in their theology, such as the teaching that everyone has been reconciled to God and forgiven of sin; that everyone, prior to repentance, possesses the Holy Spirit and is a child of God. 

So... Two Splintered Churches of God Members Walk Into a Service