Dave Pack Makes Another U-Turn And Declares Himself UnProphet-able

 

“David C. Pack Declares Himself UnProphet-able”

 

In another hairpin reversal of reversals, David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God declares he is NOT “Elijah the Prophet” in The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 381) given in Wadsworth Ohio on July 9, 2022.

 

Not to spoil the suspense, but here are the notable whoppers from this message:

·      When God told Elijah in 1 Kings 19:18/Romans 11:2-5, “Yet have I left seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal” it was not a reference to people in the time of ancient Elijah, but is a future fulfillment by the members of RCG.

·      The Two Witnesses are resurrected Moses and Elijah.

·      Dave is not “Elijah the Prophet” but more a John the Baptist “Like-Elijah” figure.

·      The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16 is actually about the Day of the Lord to be fulfilled in the future.

·      Math math math math math points to Tammuz 15 (Wednesday night to Thursday night) for the start of the 1335. 

Man o man, where to start…

 

 

The beginning of the message was almost equally as disturbing as the content which followed.

 

@ 00:13 Well, I assured you there we we would not have another message. So much for so much for the Methodist doctrine of assurance. [Audience laughs]…The picture is exactly the same. Couple dramatic changes to our understanding, but the picture stays the same.

 

Why is that funny?

 

Mr. Pack told us there was nothing more to learn, but…ha ha ha.

Mr. Pack said Jesus Christ HAD to come last week, but…ha ha ha.

Mr. Pack said we had a “perfect picture” last time, but…ha ha ha.

Mr. Pack says we have reached the end, but…ha ha ha.

Mr. Pack says one thing and does another…ha ha ha.

 

The fact some in the audience laughed was actually bothersome to me. The man is stringing those people along and they seem to be just so okay with it. That feels a bit Twilight Zone-ish.

 

Listen to it yourself:  see the sound file at the end of this post Open and Laughing at end of this post

 

Dave then reminded people that Tammuz 15 was still the day it all begins. Make sure to underline that Post-it Note still on your fridge.

 

Going to Romans 11 and 1 Kings 19, Dave explains how the “seven thousand knees which did not bow to Baal” are actually not in Elijah’s time, but in the future and those are the people in RCG.

 

Imagine this: Elijah is distraught and wants to die because he is all alone. God gets his attention with a “still, small voice” and tells him, “I have reserved 7000 knees that have not bowed to Baal, buuuuuut that is all about people who will live almost 3000 years from now. So yeah, I know I was supposed to comfort you and let you know you are not alone, but actually Elijah…you are alone.” In effect, God pulls a fast-one on one of His servants.

 

Then Dave went on to the topic of the Two Witnesses.

Over the past several years, he would “wonder out loud” during a sermon about who these men could be. For a while, he suggested it was Jeff and Kevin. But when they left RCG, then he mused at some point about it being The Coffee Kid and Pepper Boy. More jokingly, but still.

 

He has finally settled on a resurrected Moses and Elijah. But I would pencil and not ink that. They would have to die again in the streets of Jerusalem to be resurrected again a few days later.

 

Imagine this: You live in Old Testament times as God’s servant, full of faith knowing that when you are resurrected, you will inherit the Kingdom of God and receive your eternal reward.

Buuuuuut…

 

Instead, God says, “Hello, My most faithful servants. You died and are now alive again. I need to ask the both of you to work again this weekend which means both of you have to die again. Yeah. If you could just do that, that would be greaaaaaaaaaaat.”

 

How could you blame the ancient Elijah if he thought that this was strike-two? “First, I am actually alone. Second, I have to die again. Dare I ask what is going to be third?”

 

So, Dave reduces God to the same bait-and-switch tactics that he employs with new RCG members. Is that reasonable to you?

 

And now folks, for the main event:

 

@ 35:51 Well, there would be another person like John [the Baptist] who would come in that spirit and power. John didn’t do a single miracle. There would be another one similar to him who would be Elijah-like in a restorative way. But I am not Elijah the Prophet. I am only in the sense that the ancient John the Baptist came a little ahead of Christ. Would there be a modern man who’d come a little ahead of Christ, carry that name but he has his own name? He’s sorta like Moses, but carries the name of Elijah which is kind of an interesting thing in itself…

 

Dave must have gotten nostalgic for his childhood. He picked a daisy out of the garden and started plucking petals, “I’m Elijah. No I’m not. I’m Elijah. No I’m not. I’m Elijah. No I’m not.” Eventually he is going to run out of petals and get stuck with one choice at the buzzer.

 

But hold the phone. Since God is the one who calls men into an office, does Dave really have the authority to unProphet-ize himself? I thought it was God who revealed to Dave that he was Elijah That Prophet in the first place. Does this mean that God pulled the rug out from underneath Dave for the fun of it?

 

Is God laughing at Dave like Nelson from the Simpsons? “Ha ha. I said you were ‘Elijah in spirit and power’ not ‘Elijah the Prophet.’ Clean the wax out of your ears next time.”

Dave then went through the Bible for some time drawing comparisons to himself and John the Baptist.

 

@ 1:12:01 And now you know he [John the Baptist] wasn’t Elijah the Prophet. And maybe that’s why he did not one miracle. Now, I did a lot of things in the past, more miraculous things in the past. But of recent years because of my role, I don’t. I’ve anointed people that had been healed dramatically. And I’ve had I been the recipient of miracles. So, I think it’s an interesting parallel in that way.

 

The point being, John the Baptist did not do miracles and Dave does not do them any more. That will be important near the end.

 

@ 1:14:13 So, the ancient John [the Baptist] was a prophet who proceeded Christ but he knew that he was not actually Elijah. So, I am not Elijah the Prophet. Not now, not ever. Sort of a a type coming “in the spirit and power of Elijah.” Elijah, apparently was a was a pretty good speaker. John the Baptist was a bright and shining light. I hope to some degree in a small way, I’ve done that. 381 sermons, lo these many years. 44,000 minutes just in the series of preaching. So, you know, I don’t know when I became like Elijah the Prophet, but now I know I am not that man and we no longer have to spend five minutes talking about it. I’m the Seventh Messenger. Yes, I am the messenger who is sent “to prepare the way” right in the face of the Father and Son coming together in Malachi 3:1 before “the great and dreadful day of the Lord.”

 

Technically, Dave is still like-Elijah, just not Elijah the Prophet. Fine, Dave…we’ll play this your way. You are not a false prophet. You are a LIKE-False Prophet. You came “in the spirit and power of a false prophet.” Happy now?

 

@ 37:21 So, you’ve got something else to look forward to. I believe absolutely this Wednesday night you will meet Moses and Elijah. And then you’ll meet the rest of the prophets in a couple weeks after that. And believe me, I’m not I’m not done proving it.

 

He has not “proven” anything. It is just the same tired supposition, imagination, delusion, and desperation plucked from the pages of the Bible and out of the air after Dave brushes away the stars and birds floating about his head.

 

If you had put your money down on the table every time Dave said, “I believe XYZ is going to happen on XYZ,” you would be homeless by now. No car. No food. No clothes.

 

Near the end, Dave went exhaustively into how this coming Wednesday night (Tammuz 15) starting at sundown on July 13 to sundown July 14 is absolutely the start of the 1335 when the Kingdom of God arrives.

 

@ 1:16:17 So, let’s reduce everything to math and you’ll walk outta here and you will know based on numbers alone exactly when this is gonna happen.

 

Yikes. When Dave breaks out the calculator and a calendar, it never ends well for him.

 

If you are a masochist, you can hear it for yourself in all it’s easy-peezy glory: see audio clip “Part 381 Kingdom Math” at end of this post

 

Cutting to the chase: Tammuz 15 is the real deal. The millennium (1000 years) starts on Trumpets. You can count a bunch of things with a bunch of dates and you land on this coming Wednesday night at sundown until around dawn on Thursday morning or maybe at any point throughout the day until sundown Thursday night to start the whole shebang. Got it?

 

 

For those still interested, we are going to circle back around to the John the Baptist concept and reveal how Dave is not nearly as good at Daving as Brad is at Daving. I think Bradford G. Schleifer would have had a better run at blurring these concepts so the holes in Dave’s theory were not so gaping.

 

Dave is telling the audience everything they need to hear to prove if he truly is like-Elijah “in spirit and power” or not? The man tells you in his own words. He even uses the Bible to prove which is the answer. It is not only incredible, but plain.

 

Dave claims he is not a prophet. John the Baptist was a prophet. Dave says so at 1:14:13 quoted above. Jesus Christ agrees with this in Matthew and Luke.

 

John the Baptist heard the voice of God audibly and was told exactly what to do and when. Dave has admitted throughout the series he has never heard God speak to him.

 

According to Luke 1:17, John the Baptist came “in spirit and power of Elijah.” That word for power is dunamis. (Strong’s G1411 – From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself).

 

This has been hammered over and over in The Restored Church of God. We know what dunamis is. Miraculous power. Dave admitted that he no longer does anything “miraculous” at 1:12:01 quoted above. So, what “power” is Dave then referring to? Talking a lot? Insurance salesmen do that. Yelling a lot? Army sergeants do that.

 

I would love for some minister on the third floor on Monday who runs into Dave in the hallway to ask him flat out, “What power were you referring to?” It will be the last question they ever ask him, but the look on his face would be priceless.

 

Ask yourself: If Dave once had miraculous power, why would God take it away?

 

Is there an example somewhere in the Bible that could be a clue as to what happened? Yes. But it does not bode well for Dave. Do an e-Sword search in the Old Testament for a man named Saul.

 

Why would God remove His gift from His only living apostle on the face of the earth? Ponder that.

 

So, if Dave does not have dunamis, then what “spirit” do you suppose is moving him deeper into this Tammuz malarkey? Or to previously declare he WAS Elijah the Prophet? Is it the same spirit that caused John the Baptist to witness a dove descend from heaven and rest upon our Savior, Jesus Christ?

 

How many inside The Restored Church of God do you think caught all this?

 

 

How David C. Pack is NOT like John the Baptist:

1) John the Baptist was a prophet, Dave is not.

2) John the Baptist heard God speak to him, Dave has not.

3) John the Baptist was “in the dunamis of Elijah,” Dave is not.

4) John the Baptist kept his dunamis until death, Dave has not.

5) John the Baptist saw spirit, Dave has not.

 

 

Please remember that I did not say these things. David C. Pack said these things. The Bible says these things. I am merely reminding you of it.

 

Tammuz is a one way street. Dave has painted himself into a smaller and tighter corner with each message.

I know the “ministers” in RCG will call me (if they have not already) an antichrist. With this article, they will say I am also committing the unpardonable sin for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I was a tare amongst the wheat. I am beating my fellow servants. I am deceived. My work is of the devil. Woe unto me.

I humbly request they hold back on any judgment regarding this until Friday morning. Let God prove who is a liar and who is true. Amen to the Kingdom of God coming this week. Amen to the plan of God moving forward now. Amen to Jesus Christ returning to His people.

If I am wrong, I will be cast into a lake of fire. I accept that.

If David C. Pack is wrong, will he repent?

Marc Cebrian

See: “David C. Pack Declares Himself UnProphet-able”

 

Open & Laughing

 

Kingdom Math

LCG: In Seeking To Stop Members From Becoming Another Bob Thiel Ends Up Discouraging Intellectual Curiosity

Intellectual stimulation is vanity

It is well known by now how Bob Thiel thought he had great influence upon Rod Meredith, the Council of Elders, and many of LCG's top men. Thiel was constantly running to them with newly revealed knowledge he had supposedly discovered and therefore had to correct the LCG, its leadership, and its teachings to conform to his own interpretations. After being publicly humiliated by Rod Meredith from the stage, Thiel, filled with vanity, set off on his own to form his own personality cult, though the "personality" in this instance sure leaves a lot to be desired! Oy!

In a letter to the members of the Living Church of God, Paul Sena has written this, Beware of “Special Knowledge”. In this letter, he discusses how church members down through the decades have found themselves wrapped up in special knowledge gained from personal study, conspiracy theories, and other avenues of intellectual pursuit. Of course, when this involves questioning church leadership or beliefs then it creates an open can of worms.

A destructive pursuit has plagued the Church of God for centuries. Perhaps surprisingly, it often starts with pure motives—yet it frequently leads to pride, rebellion, and division. It did so in the first-century Church, and still does in God’s Church today. The pursuit of “special knowledge” is one of Satan’s most insidious and effective tools for attacking the people of God, and the problems it causes can be devastating. Let’s examine some of the effects of this pursuit, and then see what we can personally do to rein it in.

One avenue is intellectual curiosity, which ultimately is vanity:

Notice that Paul referred to the serpent deceiving Eve in the Garden of Eden. We find the account of this deception in Genesis 3:1–6...

The serpent, Satan, appealed to Eve’s intellectual vanity. In effect, he was offering her special knowledge. The appeal of having special information goes back to the very first humans, and Satan played on that desire—in fact, he still does.

Peter addressed the growing problem around 68 AD, 19 years after the letter to the Galatians:

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber (2 Peter 2:1–3). 

 

Notice that Peter uses the term “false prophets,” referring to people who claimed special insight. Such people, he says, are motivated by covetousness—whether they are coveting power, prestige, respect, or something else. Christ’s Apostles, on the other hand, clearly had the authority to preach as they did. 2 Peter 1:16–18 reminds us that, unlike those who claimed to have “new truth,” the Apostles were eyewitnesses of Christ Himself. What’s more, Peter says, “No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation [origin], for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” (vv. 20–21). This has always been how God works to reveal the truth.

Intellectual curiosity breeds people like Bob Thiel...

The progression from innocent curiosity to arrogant rebellion usually goes something like this: First, a person notices something in a scripture that piques his interest—it’s something he hasn’t noticed before, but it seems to merit further study. Leaping to his mind as a result of this curiosity is a theory that, for one reason or another, is very attractive to him. 

 

This person then gathers all the scriptures and other documentation—lexicons, commentaries, Google search results, etc.—that seem to support his theory. But here is the danger: Does he honestly consider the evidence he finds that does not support his theory? Has he seriously studied what the Church teaches on the topic? Or is he studying to show his new idea correct, rather than to understand God’s word more fully? 

 

Because the Internet spreads almost every idea imaginable, it is easy to feel validated by finding others who share belief in his newfound theory. Once he feels validated, his theory becomes, in his mind, Truth—with a capital T. Believing he has discovered special knowledge, he begins to share it with people offline, including members of his Church congregation. If he receives positive reactions, he grows bolder in spreading his “Truth” and starts to look for further special knowledge that will gain him more positive attention.

But what does he do if he receives negative reactions? The humble Christian approach is to go to God in prayer and to ask God’s ministers to help him understand what he might be misunderstanding. Too often, however, pride was behind the “special knowledge” in the first place, and though he feels superior to those who do not share his knowledge, he retreats within his own mind, still privately believing his own ideas but unwilling to examine those ideas honestly in the light of God’s word. 

 

Either way, such a proud individual almost inevitably starts finding other points on which he believes the Church is wrong, and he repeats the above steps—either gaining an audience or internalizing his attitude of superior knowledge. His demeanor and attitude change, and his attendance at Sabbath services becomes sporadic. All along, he keeps up a dialogue with others who believe the same things he does. 

…which then brings into being the Bob Thiel’s of the church.

By the time he tells his minister about his new beliefs, he is no longer seeking to learn. He is seeking to teach, rejecting all explanations of Church teachings or refutations of his mistaken beliefs. He then leaves God’s Church. He might join another group, he might stay “solo” and rely on the Internet for his study and fellowship, or he might start a group of his own. Whatever he does, he is far from the humble place where he began; he now sees himself as a chosen vessel for special knowledge, and as such, he will eventually disagree with whomever he aligns himself, because he now has the delusion of knowing more than anyone else. If he goes far enough, he will become, in his own mind, the sole authority of God’s truth, ending up completely alone and disconnected from the Body of Christ—the Body that, tasked with doing the Work, now has at least one less person to help with doing that Work.

Of course, this all boils down to the tired and worn-out scapegoat, the most powerful god in Armstrongism Satan.

The only “winner” in this scenario is Satan, who has once again worked on someone in the same way he worked on Eve. In addition to appealing to people’s intellectual vanity, he also works on the ego, causing them to feel slighted. With Eve, he used, God is not fair—He is holding something back from you. 

 

And Satan uses the same tactic today. What’s interesting is that doctrine is rarely the true beginning of the journey: Many times, before the person “gains special knowledge,” he has already been offended by something or someone in the Church. Perhaps there is something that he doesn’t agree with, or his feelings were hurt by an “insensitive” statement or a slight (usually by someone in authority). The person allows a root of bitterness to spring up. Then, believing that he has “special knowledge” the Church lacks, he soon embraces the idea that those who disagree with him can’t be in “God’s true Church.”

This is a pretty good description of Bob Thiel. Is Satan behind his so-called work? 

Look at the tragic results: Another schism in the Body, thereby diminishing the Church’s effectiveness in performing its mission of preaching the Gospel. Another person is now without the nurture and protection of the Church, deluded that he, and he alone, is being used by God to reveal truth. 

 

The particular doctrines in dispute are actually beside the point, whether they involve calendar issues, “sacred names,” the true Gospel, or any one of a hundred other old, tired controversies. Once people start down this path, their argumentative and defiant attitudes become the issue. Paul told Timothy to “charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith” (1 Timothy 1:3–4).  

How sad that these people have forgotten the point of the Gospel: “Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm” (vv. 5–7). 

 

Brethren, be on guard against Satan’s lies that play on our vanity. Beware of the danger of thinking you have special knowledge—God doesn’t work this way!

Amen to that! This is why Bob Thiel has been unable to draw the vast majority of COG members into his little group. People recognize there is a different "spirit" occupying Theil's mind.

Sena goes on to tell LCG members to remain humble so that they aren't drawn into this mess. Humbleness is not a factor that has ever played into Thiel's psyche.

God gave a warning to those who take upon themselves the prerogative of spreading “insight” that is not clearly supported by God’s inspired word. Deuteronomy 13:1–5 reveals that anyone who leads others away from God and the truth is guilty of an incredibly serious offense. But that warning is not only to the person claiming to have special knowledge. God says in verse 3 that He is testing those who listen to what the person says. 

 

Those claiming to have special knowledge will always be around, but part of the guilt of spreading it is on the listeners. Some people have “itching ears” (2 Timothy 4:3–4) and are looking for “new ideas.” We all need to judge the validity of any idea, comparing it with God’s word, as the Bereans did (Acts 17:11, cf. 1 John 4:1).

Sadly, far too many in the LCG, and other COG's, will take this as an easy excuse never to question church leaders or beliefs. Intellectual curiosity is stifled yet again. LCG, like many other COG's remains fearful that members who actually study and examine doctrinal and church teach teaching, may actually discover many, if not most of them are wrong. It becomes dangerous territory when a church member actually started studying the New Covenant.

Sena makes sure to point out that the church encourages Bible Study...as long as it uses official church teachings to study it with.

Does this mean that we should avoid personal study and talking to others about the word of God? No—we are commanded to study to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15), and to “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18), which requires study. But the attitude behind Bible study is all-important. Are we striving to become more like Jesus Christ or to become important in our own eyes (Proverbs 3:7)?

How can LCG members become Christ-like when the dude is never discussed most of the time? 

So, beware  of those who have special knowledge as they will try and seduce you:

The allure of “special knowledge” has seduced many since Eve was deceived in the Garden of Eden. It is one of Satan’s great deceptions and one of his most dangerous fiery darts—a deadly trap that leads to arrogance and eventual isolation from God’s plan and purpose. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8), and as we read in Ephesians 4, He leads His people to the truth through the authority He has established in His Church. By allowing Him to lead us that way, we will remain steadfastly within the safety of the Body of Christ, now and until the end of the age. 

 

Remain humble, brethren, and watch out for those who claim to have special knowledge.

Debunking British Israelism

 

See Useful Charts for more excellent videos by Matt Baker (former WCG member) on the Bible, its history, and related subjects. There are also many other secular subjects covered too, like genealogies of nations, royalty, historical figures, and scores of other fascinating topics through chart timelines 

Baker effectively shuts down the childish high school-level research and teaching of Armstrongist Bob Thiel and his so-called historical and biblical "facts".

When Was Jesus Born?

When Did Jesus Die?

Oldest Bible Manuscripts

Who Wrote the Torah? (Pentateuch)

Who Wrote the Nevi'im? (Old Testament Prophets)

Who Wrote the Ketuvim? (Old Testament Writings)

Who Wrote the Apocrypha?

Who Wrote the Gospels?

Who Wrote the Pauline Epistles?

Who Wrote Daniel & Revelation?

Did Moses Exist?

Biblical Chronology: Jewish Calendar vs Christian Literalists

Genealogy of Jesus

Which Bible Characters are Historical?

Responding to Comments on My Bible Videos

For some added fun check out: 

The Addams Family Tree vs The Munsters Family Tree