Davey Pack: Humans Are Just Squatters and Renters In God's Homes, Everything Belongs to God (and Me)

One should never pay tithes to God’s representatives and then try to supervise or otherwise watch over the way the ministry or Church headquarters spends them. The ministry answers to God because it is God who employs them, not the people who paid the tithes.

I was checking out the Preterism blog today and they had a short entry on Davey Pack.

It says this:

Today, Pack is claiming the beast of Revelation is “just ahead.” Armstrong made the same claim in 1934 suggesting the beast might be Mussolini, Stalin or Roosevelt. In 1956, he predicted the Great Tribulation would arrive by 1975. Of course, all this came to nothing. So, why Pack wants to be associated with such an abysmal failure is baffling. It’s doubtful he spends any time telling his duped followers about Armstrong’s failed predictions. (Revealing the truth would undoubtedly affect his income stream.)

Here is what Davey says about money:

What You Earn Is Not Your Own

He then blabbers on about banks and loan companies that actually "own" your home.  That the government requires taxes.  But what then is left after taxes? Who owns that?

Davey says that God owns all that you ahve.
 

Notice. God says, “For all the earth is Mine” (Ex. 19:5) and “Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord’s your God, the earth also, with all that therein is” (Deut. 10:14) and also “whatsoever is under the whole heaven is Mine” (Job 41:11). King David wrote, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein” (Psa. 24:1). I Corinthians 10:26 repeats his words.

God also says, “For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills...If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof” (Psa. 50:10, 12). Finally, the prophet Haggai wrote, “The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine, says the Lord” (Hag. 2:8).

All money is God’s (remember, the value of money is generally attached in some way to gold and silver). He owns absolutely everything there is to own. Human beings are “squatters” on His land and “renters” in His homes. Everything you think you own is actually owned by God. You are merely its temporary custodian.

That is Davey's slick way of preparing his acolytes that all their money belongs to God and that they need to send it all in.

People manufacture products from natural resources, which come from the earth, but it is God who makes both the natural resources and the earth in which they are found. Men may own mining or timber rights, but it is ultimately God who owns the mine and created the timber, which grew because of elements in the soil—which He created and owns!

Any time Davey's god tells him to demand money from his members, they MUST send it ALL in.  After all, it is not theirs!  It is God's and Davey is God's custodian.

Any time He wishes, God could take back all that is His. After all, it is His! This includes your income. While you may have “earned it,” God owns it.

What things belong to God? Remember, we are to “Render...to God the things that are God’s.” Render means give. Since the heavens and the earth (or the land on which we live) cannot be “rendered” back to God by human beings, what does this mean?

We saw our entire income (salary, wages, interest earned, investments, bonuses, commissions and any other financial increase) actually belongs to God.

Davey then gos on to pretend that his members are required to tithe by his god:

God lays prior claim to the first 10 percent of everything people earn as income. This is called the tithe, meaning “the tenth.” To be a tithepayer means the same as being a “tenthpayer.” Tithe is an old English word commonly used to mean tenth. People have long understood that to tithe is to pay a tenth of one’s income.

There are small and large points within God’s Law. Some commands carry more “weight” than others. When speaking of some lesser points within God’s Law, Christ said, “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 5:19).

Davey then shoots himself in the foot by talking about a "pagan" so-called Christian who tithed and prospered.  Davey's members should be asking themselves: If God blessed that guy who tithes to a non COG, then why can't I give to another COG or non-COG church and be blessed?  Why does Davey get it all?

I have known men who sought to make God their partner. In my hometown of Lima, Ohio, a well-known, successful businessman put a sign on his factory saying, “God is my Partner.” He certainly did prosper.

John D. Rockefeller, the famous patriarch of the Rockefeller family, tithed. Other well-known tithepayers have prospered because they followed this principle.

No one can make God his partner. We cannot “let God in” on a “business deal” with us. But God can choose to make individual tithepayers His partners!

 Davey then goes on to tell his acolytes that they "have no voice" in how he sues the money they "give" him.

Tithing works in this way. Each time you tithe, you have paid the latest in a long string of ongoing regular “bills” sent to you from God. Actually, His bill is always to be the first one paid! God is not willing to stand in line behind other creditors who represent mere human organizations to whom the tithepayer may also have existing or on-going obligations. Remember, God gives 90 percent of your income. What other organization would do this?

Another important principle to note: Tithes paid to God work differently from money put in a bank. If you place your money in a bank, you expect that bank to keep careful track of the funds you have deposited and to give you a periodic accounting. The bank remains responsible to you for keeping proper track of your funds. The reason is simple. Though the bank may be holding your money, it is still your money! The same with stocks or other investments. Brokers account to the investor.

Tithing is different! Since tithes belong to God, once they are paid, God (or His representative) is not obligated to explain exactly how, or in what fashion, they were spent. One should never pay tithes to God’s representatives and then try to supervise or otherwise watch over the way the ministry or Church headquarters spends them. The ministry answers to God because it is God who employs them, not the people who paid the tithes. God owns His “company,” and He has the authority to hire (or fire) His employees—His ministers. Tithepayers have no voice in how they are spent.

Davey says all money belongs to him since he is the ONLY faithful COG leader out there.:

It is only to the faithful ministry of the true Church—the only Church Christ built—that tithes should be paid. Those laboring full-time in the Work of God are hired and paid directly by God! Since tithes cannot be sent to heaven, He designates they go to His earthly representatives.

Davey then warns his followers, "I have now done my part.  If you do not tithe you will be gut off by God!"  As usual it is scare tactic time.  Make people fear for their salvation if they do not tithe.  Tithing is a salvation issue with Davey,, something that it never was through human history.

 I have now done my part. I have taught you the truth about tithing. You have been given essential knowledge that you must act on, in order to be given more. Christ said, “Walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walks in darkness knows not where he goes. While you have light, believe in the light, that you may be the children of light” (John 12:35-36). Further, notice this warning to all: “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, IF you continue in His goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off” (Rom. 11:22).

He then concludes with this asinine comment:

Tithing is a law. Like any other law, there is an automatic cause and effect relationship. Why do you keep the law of gravity? Because if you break it, you know there will be an immediate, visible and sometimes painful effect. Jumping from a 10-story building brings real consequences.

The tithing law is no different. If we break it, it breaks us. But if we keep it, it keeps us. But there is one fundamental difference between tithing, which is a spiritual law, and physical laws. Breaking spiritual laws rarely brings immediate effects on the offender. There is a delayed penalty—but a penalty, nonetheless.

Bob Thiel: Only Philadelphia Christians (i.e. Continuing Ed Church of God) Will Flee To Safety In Petra

Once again, Bob Thiel, the non-ordained self-appointed false prophet of the Continuing Ed Church of God, emphasizes just how special his little group is.  Only those in the CedCOG are the true Philadelphia church and all other COG's are apostates. 

The easy translation is, if you belong to Bob - you are saved, if you belong to another dude - you are NOT going to Petra!

Can you imagine what a slug fest it is going to be when all these various COG's all show up at the narrow gate to Petra and they start fighting about who really belongs there.  What a bunch of morons!

It is interesting to note that Jesus was telling Christians that when they see Daniel 11:31/12:11 fulfilled, then Christians need to flee. And that they should pray that this flight will not be on the Sabbath (Saturday) or the winter. Do you pray that?

Why do people flee?


People flee to be protected!
Fleeing does not sound much like being “raptured.”

What happens after Christ’s people flee? Jesus explains:

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be (Matthew 24:21).

But are any Christians promised protection from this tribulation?
Yes, notice what Jesus told the Philadelphia Church:

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write…10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth (Revelation 3:7,10).

It needs to be emphasized that ONLY the Philadelphia portion of the Church of God, other Christians will be affected by the Great Tribulation and the related persecutions (Revelation 12:17).

Glynn Washington On "The Reunion"

Dennis on: "Why Pick On Dave Pack?"

Why Pick At Dave?

I've had to ask myself "what's with you and Dave Pack anyway?"  Why does he, more than any COG theological prankster get under my skin?  Why not just let him be?    Humor me while I take a few minutes to answer this publicly. I have oncology massage shortly and don't have much time.  If Dave can say ridiculous things publicly, I can too.  :)  Well, at least I can as long as I don't sign up as a returning and repentant minister eviscerating myself at Dave's feet.   If I did that, I'd have to get permission to ever speak publicly in this life again.

If Dave had a different personality, temperament , emotional make up, theological background and training, less ego and self centered views, somewhat shorter, less compulsivity, more of conscience, less hubris, a bit more compassion and a tad less HWA worship and nostalgia....I'd like the guy.   However....

Most of you don't know Dave's brother Bill.  Dave gives him a line in his autobiography.  Bill is one of the nicest, most authentic and genuine guys I ever met at either college or in the ministry.  He was pastoring Corning just before I did and everyone loved him. I often had a few months in a new church of people pouring out their hearts about the last ministers antic and unkind ways.  Most if not all of those guys are still either evangelists or ministers in the COGs.  Figures.  Anyway... You would think those two brothers were from different planets.  When you are around Bill, you just feel better or at least that was my experience.  Bill always had the big smile and enjoyable personality where Dave was always Mr. Look Down on You and Serious Demeanor.  Their reputation in ministry were night and day. Bill...I love ya man!  :)

At any rate, why pick on Dave?  Why challenge him to "debate" theologically, which of course I am not stupid, he would never do.  Why point out the ridiculous nature of his public screeds or his theological fantasies? 

 I don't take any time to talk write about Gerald Flurry.  I don't care for the man and his ministry is even more flagrantly phoney and flawed and only the really brain dead will fall for it.  Evidently there are enough brain dead to keep it going but we'll see.  His ministers are Hitleresque clowns and it seems everyone even in the group hates to see them coming.  Nepotism is in place as with HWA until it didn't work and we may see that in the Living Church of God as well but that won't work out so well I'm thinking.  So what's my problem with Dave?

Dave passes himself off as very intelligent.  He is not.  He is clever but that is the cheap form of intelligence. It does not hold up to scrutiny. Dave lives in a very small world...his own.  Dave dismisses a man like Einstein because "he had wild hair."  Really?  Dave  pokes fun of Socrates and Aristotle as if he knew.  He thinks the world is 6000 years old or at least humans are and that Adam and Eve really are physically where it all began.  He believes serpents can talk and walked until they pushed God's last button.  He knows nothing of serpent evolution nor human for that matter.  Dave teaches Bronze Age knowledge and that is not intelligent.

Dave reads the Bible like a newspaper or blog site.  Like Thiel and others, Dave still believes that weather, wind, rain and fire are the tools "God" uses to get our attention.  They really are the tools these men use to get your attention on them and send them money out of fear of being left behind.  Dave has virtually NO real training in theology.  He is a mere Bible reader who then cuts and pastes it all together into a story that pleases him and sounds good to him.  Dave knows NOTHING of the history of the Bible and how it really came about.  That would destroy his story.  Dave knows nothing of Gospel origins, contradictions and politic.  He operates at a less than Sunday School level because at least in Sunday Schools you hear the word "Jesus" and stories of his imagined life and sayings.  Dave likes Matthew 24 but 5-7 not so much. 

Dave knows nothing, and it shows about Cosmology, Paleontology, Archeology or the real issues they raise in Old Testament Studies. In his autobio he even says he had to get his Ambassador degree in the mail because he went into the ministry his senior year and missed graduation and that last year.  Personally I am ashamed of my Bible reading AC education but I was young.  I actually thought it was a seminary when I signed up. 

Dave thinks Genesis 1 is how it all happened scientifically when in fact, Genesis 1 is a political statement that goes something like this:

"You worship wind, rain and fire, animal, vegetable and minerals.  Our God MADE your gods..."

If Dave understood anything about the origins of the real world, he'd not say with a clear conscience many of the things he does.  Lots of ministers wouldn't.  Dave perpetuates ignorance.  I'd like to see a list of books that Dave has read over the past ten years outside of his very small box of knowing.  How about "Evolution-What the Fossils Tell Us and Why It Matters."  Nah....demons!      Bronze Age types are stuck in Bronze Age knowledge and their followers would never tolerate an update of knowledge.  It threatens the fairy tale that Dave weaves.  Ignorance is dangerous in the long run to good mental, spiritual and even physical health.  A good read of Israel Finkelstein's The Bible Unearthed wouldn't hurt either.

Dave would never utter the words, "Woman, you have NO VOICE!"  if he understood Genesis 2-4 were written to debunk goddess worship in the nations around Israel , blame women for everything and leave them having painful childbirth and saying "yes sir," to husbands so patriarchy could rule Israel.  Israel was going to have male priests, temples and bloody meat sacrifices and that was final.  That is also the lesson of Cain and Abel.  Well actually maybe if he knew this he'd say it even louder because God crushed women early in the game.  As was said to my dad ,  "You know Fred,  it's not easy being married to Dave Pack..."

Dave's theology is dangerous to others real lives.   Where in the world of Christian ministry would you hear such threatening blather as in Dave's Clarion Call sermon?  Look it up. Read it. Send me your retirements, your estates, your home sales, take out second mortgage, sell stuff and send me the money post haste!! Don't wait until you die to send me what is in your will!   Really?  How do I live after that stunt?

 

At least understand that the actual meaning of "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept" is NOT the way to study the Bible.  In context, God is MOCKING the drunken priests with baby talk for their lousy theology.  That phrase is not meant to define how you find Bible truth.  It is more saying  "na ha , na...oh wotsa little priest blathering about now...."   Go do your homework Dave.

The fact one can only do that once may leave him desperate for money in the future. Maybe that time is now which is why he is putting all his eggs in the August 2013 basket.  Bills have to be paid over time, not once.  What do you think the public reaction would be if his sermons and news updates were read on TV or put in the newspapers?  What would the Wadsworth Chamber of Commerce think of such tactics by a minister so called?  How about running that "I am Joshua the High Priest past some local psychiatrists or counselor types and what would he get?   Have a conclave of educated theologians from Akron or Cleveland and explain Haggai to them and see how that goes?  Dave is dangerous because he is so very wrong in his theology. 

Dave is dangerous because he shields himself from accountability both financial and theological.  You simply are not welcome to correct, enlighten or educate the man.  He certainly won't do it himself.  Ok, lets throw mental health counseling in there as well.  Take a personality test?  No way...   Have a psychologist read his writings..um..no. 

Dave is deeply hurting people again. . He has blocked that out.  It won't get better.  Dave does not teach people how to actually live in the real world.  He teaches them how to give in his fake world.  Dave teaches people to be so tuned into the unknowable and speculative future that they are of no present good to anyone.  Pray, Pay, Obey and Stay..right?  That's it!  Dave contradicts Jesus, if I may be so bold to use that untrusted RCG word. 

Dave is setting his church up for a big fall.  He's 64 with no heir apparent.  Who would want to inherit the mess of RCG or the bills?  It would be a mad dash to file cabinets that hold the results of everyone's 35 ways litmus test for returning to RCG to blackmail others into submission.  Once we get past August 30, 2013, which is just weeks away, lots of things are going to be more clear to lots of folk than they evidently are now and it won't be clear as Dave counts clearness.  At least we won't have to wait three years as we did with Ron Weinland to see where this is going ....again.

In short, I suppose Dave Pack punches every button in my that fuels my personal regrets about the decisions I made way too young about topics way to big for my britches.  It's hard to get passed that with RCG in everyone's face wanting to drag everyone back to the idealistic past which never actually was.  I learned a lot from my experience.  It has been very painful for a guy like me.  I absolutely believed it and meant well until I didn't.  I had my blind spots, my denial and my sitting on the outside to others but standing on the inside to myself.  I want those to match at least for the rest of my life.  I have had to reeducate myself on all the things I realize I LOVED as a child.  I realize, while I didn't have the facts, I loved dinosaurs, fossils, galaxies, Neanderthals and Oldavai Gorge since I was a kid.  The 60's were chaotic and I turned to religion to explain it when I should have turned to paleontology, cosmology and archaeology instead.  My bad.  My dad told me recently he always wanted to be a New York State Trooper.  So I guess lots of folk make the wrong choice when young and don't know what else they could have done.  I realize when I was kid with my telescope out on the lake in the dark of night, the universe was calling to me to study it.  When I found fossils of trilobites in the shale along the stream, evolution was calling me to find out what went on.  

Dave Pack reminds me of my own bad decisions in life.  Or maybe they were just decisions.  One can't be here if they had not been there. 

When I went to Israel  to dig at Megiddo, having won the essay contest that year in Biblical Archaeology Magazine,  and sat for hours with Israel Finkelstein before he wrote The Bible Unearthed and he explained to me what he understood about the reality of the Old Testament, I knew I was doomed in ministry.  John Shelby Spong put the icing on that cake for me.  When I wrote John to thank him for his book Rescuing The Bible From Fundamentalists,  he wrote back to thank me too and then said, "you won't survive your church."

Dave reminds me I wish I had never heard of it...

I may have no secure future financially, whatever that means in this day and age.  I may not have chosen to keep the old old story going like others,(I was asked to),  but every penny I make is conscience healthy and earned. I know who I am in my soul and being authentic is important to me more than ever.   WCG may have got my youth, but it did not get my soul and neither will or should a deluded non theologically trained, scientifically ignorant but clever guy like Dave Pack get me on the other end of life.  How about you?

If you are a minister thinking of taking up with Dave...call me

EMAIL ME!

"post haste"

Contact Dennis at DennisCDiehl@aol.com