My Church Is Bigger Than Yours! Lets Whip It Out Boys And Let Us Compare!

Why is it that a church that says it is God's most highly favored and one that is carrying on in a direct lineage from the original apostolic church, has to CONSTANTLY compare itself with other splinter groups?

Even before the Church of God imploded, at every Feast site it was one big one-upmanship as to who had the most people and the biggest offerings. Today that pissing contest still goes on with the various Churches of God, but never more so than with Tinfoil Bob Thiel's improperly named "continuing" Church of God.

Yesterday I posted some comments by James Tabor and items from the Church of God News site about the dwindling Church of God membership numbers.  Leave it up to thin-skinned and eternally butt-hurt Tinfoil Bob to take exception to the comments.

While size is not an indicator of truth, the truth is that the CCOG has been the fastest growing COG in the 21st century. The three groups with more congregants than CCOG (UCG, COGWA, LCG) have essentially been slow growing and the other two shown on the post (PCG and RCG) have had substantial losses of congregants in the past 6 or so years.

Unlike UCG, COGWA, and LCG who got the bulk of their members because of a split from another organization (as PCG also somewhat also did–but not as quickly directly as the others did), CCOG did not do that.

Currently, about 3,800 are considered and/or wish to be considered congregants with the CCOG.

Now, I noticed that the anti-COG Banned by HWA site made negative comments about CCOG and Africans today.

But scripture points to a much more positive view.

Jesus taught that fruits will identify the true from the false:

15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20)

So, fruits are the criteria Matthew recorded that Jesus set to know true from false prophets.

It is obvious to tens of thousands of Church of God members and even more ex-members that Bob Thiel IS a false prophet, who comes as a ravenous wolf seeking to devour sincere seeking Africans in order to add to his "astounding" membership rolls.  Never has the church seen a more puffed up and vainglorious self-appointed COG leader that it has in Bob Thiel. Even Dave Pack, the narcissist he is, is not as important as Thiel who has declared himself the one and only true end time prophet. No COG has ever grown as fast as he has nor made available booklets in so many languages as he has, at least in his eyes.

According to Tinfoil Bob, those that dare to question him and his vision are just like the Jews that got all ticked off when gentiles entered the church and did not have to worry about pork and being burdened by the letter of the law.

Good trees produce a lot of fruit. 

Deuteronomy 7:13 refers to people as the fruit of the womb. 

If fruits can be defined as people in the Church of God, then CCOG has those.
Since CCOG formed, it has produced the most fruit that way. 

Thus, the only group of the six listed that claims to have a prophet that has the fruits of a prophet Jesus referred to is the CCOG. 

Laodiceans, and others, however, refuse to accept that standard that Jesus set.
They decide (they reason around this). 

Jesus never, I repeat NEVER set up Bob Thiel as a prophet or the one foretold in dreams, as he claims.

Various ones say, well anyone can get Africans to come with them, and since CCOG has mainly Africans, this does not count. 

Well, that was basically the same attitude that the Jews had in New Testament times concerning the calling of Gentiles. They did not think that the Gentiles counted.

That is a load of Armstrongite self-serving bullshit.  Those who see through the lies of the self-appointed false prophet are concerned about sincere searching people in Africa who probably truly want to follow Jesus but have been caught up in another white man's cult imported from America that is trying to save the unconverted heathen blacks of Africa.  It is time these people stepped out in faith and rebuked the white Bawana's coming to give them their version of the truth. It is time they stop prostituting themselves to the American purveyors of legalism and learned to embrace grace and freedom that the Jesus the seek to follow came to give to them, freely and without and works of their own.

The late Pastor General of the old Worldwide Church of God, Herbert W. Armstrong wrote about this portion of scripture:

Now study carefully beginning verse 25: “Blindness in part is happened to Israel [HOW LONG? Forever? No — note it], UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in” — the end of this age during which God is calling a people from among the gentiles to bear His name (Acts 15:14). And so, says Romans 11:26, “all Israel SHALL BE SAVED [how?]: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.” The Deliverer, Jesus Christ, is coming again! 

When He comes, the gentile times will be over — the BLINDNESS will be removed from the Israelites — and their opportunity — their FIRST chance — of salvation will then come to those whom God had blinded! This is at the time when He comes to REIGN on HIS THRONE — the throne of David, with the saints made immortal reigning and ruling with Him — and the time is DURING THE THOUSAND YEARS! 

Notice verse 31. These blinded Israelites have not now, in this age, received mercy, that through the mercy of the gentiles saved in this age, they MAY, THEN, obtain mercy and salvation. How? Because these saved gentiles will then be kings and priests, assisting in this wonderful Work! (Armstrong HW. Where Will The MILLENNIUM Be Spent? Tomorrow’s Word magazine, September 1971)

Clearly, we are now (47 years later) much closer to the time when all the Gentiles are to come in to later be kings and priests!

It is a sad day when any COG leader claims salvation cannot be found outside their own respective church. Truth only resides with them and therefore those who reject them and their church are unable to understand any truth of God or what they have to offer.

If you are not with CCOG does your church teach or understand this?

Will you believe the Bible or reason around it?

More of the Gentiles had to be called–and that is happening–and now mainly in CCOG.

The end does NOT come until the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ reaches enough nations and the ‘full number’ (as the NIV, NLT, BSB, CEV, GNT, HCSV, ISV, and NET Bible, put Romans 11:25) of Gentiles God wants in this age come in.

If you really are praying for the kingdom to come as Jesus taught in Matthew 6:10, then you should support CCOG.

Don’t use prejudices and other factors stop you from acting on the truth and using the criteria that Jesus and the Apostle Paul laid out.

The truth is that CCOG has been the fastest growing COG in the 21st century.

Anyone who yearns for the kingdom to come will NOT under any circumstance EVER support the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.  Trusting in the One who is greater than any COG leader will ever talk about is far better than ever desiring to be in a kingdom run by a COG leader or their group, particularly one envisioned by the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.

3,600 Africans have been duped by the lies and false teachings of Bob Thiel and shame on the 200 Americans who turned their backs on the giver of grace to follow this bastardizer of the law.

The Ever Shrinking Churches of God

James Tabor posted the following on the Message Forum for the Ambassador College Pasadena Reunion site on November 26.

James Tabor (1968)

Re: Membership numbers for major WCG remnant groups...

Thanks to quite a few of you who messaged me privately with some responses to my questions about membership of current WCG remnant/splinter groups...no one seemed to be sure, though one person put Thiel's Continuing Church of God around 3800.

In the meantime I checked with Dixon Cartwright, thinking he might have the best finger on the pulse...here are his guesses--and he emphasizes these are just estimates: 

United Church of God An International Association (12K)

The Church of God a Worldwide Association (9K)

The Living Church of God (3K)

The Philadelphia Church of God (2K)

The Restored Church of God (2K)

My query was not a theological one (as if "larger" means better)  but more a kind of curiosity question, or even along the lines of the sociology of religion--what happens when an "high demand imminent apocalypse group" falls apart...The WCG is one of the dominant examples in American religions, wheras JWs, SDAs, and LDS, despite breakaways and fragments, managed to maintain their core group--which I think the WCG/Grace Communion would have done had they not abandoned and even opposed ALL the major teachings of Mr. Armstrong. If the mother group had continued to strongly teach and advocate the core teachings of "Mystery of the Ages" my guess is they would have adjusted to failed prophecy but continued to grow strongly with a sharp and unique message. 

I think this is a kind of new phenomenon in the history of most American apocalyptic movements. They shift and change but usually maintain the core or essence of their founders (Charles Taze Russell, Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith)...

Note: Tabor's numbers for LCG are wrong above.

Later COGNews had this:

United Church of God: 12,360 according to Peter Eddington on 26th February 2018. 

Church of God a Worldwide Association: approx.11,000 (5,500 in the USA), according to Jim Franks on 29th November 2018.

Continuing Church of God: 3,800 according to Robert Thiel. (Over 3600 are in Africa.) 

(It should also be noted that Tinfoil Bob's improperly named "continuing" Church of God is the only COG that actually pays most of its members to be part of their group.   If we can trust Bawana's church count of 3,800, it means that he is funding 3,600 members in Africa who do not have the funds to send money to his awesome HQ's in Arroyo Grande, CA. From computers to seeds to financial funds, the Great Bawana keeps his church-hopping African members happy, even as they keep demanding more resources from him.)

The LCG, PCG and RCG do not give out numbers, but attendances for all three have been declining significantly. 

Living Church of God: 6,000? 9,000 was presumably the attendance when Robert Thiel left LCG to form his own church, and it surely hasn’t sunk to 3,000 today. The only membership loss announced publicly was the transfer of the Geneva, Switzerland, congregation to COGWA.

Philadelphia Church of God: 3,500? Stephen Flurry commented a couple of years ago that PCG had levelled out at around 5,000. In 2017 The Philadelphian magazine listed 143 congregations, indicating that 2,000 must be on the low side. 

Restored Church of God: 1,000? If it isn’t down to this figure (or lower) now, it surely will be soon – David Pack is continually losing members and ministers – even his second-in-command left recently.  

COGWA has benefited greatly from the losses of LCG, PCG and RCG, because it decided to be more welcoming towards newcomers. Prospective members are no longer vetted before being allowed to attend. Instead COGWA has copied the United Church of God in introducing a standardized website for each congregation, stating location and times of services, and welcoming people to visit. Whereas the Festival of Tabernacles in LCG, PCG and RCG is restricted to members and their families, COGWA has an open attendance policy.COGNews

Hier kommen die Deutschen! Nochmal!

Oh, Noes!!!!!! Here come the Germans!  Again!

Where oh where would the Church of God be without its favorite bogeyman, the Germans? From jackbooted soldiers marching through the streets of America to the German military brass setting up its American HQ on the Pasadena campus of the Worldwide Church of God, the church has had a perverse fascination with Germans.

After Herbert Armstrong declared that Hitler was alive in South America, Rod Meredith soon went into almost orgasmic ecstasy as he described how Americans would be thrown into concentration camps and burned in ovens.  Others would be hung on meat hooks as they died a slow agonizing death.  Parents would be forced to watch German soldiers bash their children's skulls in with rifle butts.  Young teenage girls and boys would be shipped off to Europe to be slaves to the Germans and other Europeans who would be taking such delight in seeing American destroyed. Pregnant women would have their stomachs slit open and their babies pulled out and killed.

This is the world that Church of God ministers loved to preach about and still do to this day.

Tinfoil Bawana Almost-arrested Bob Thiel is back once again beating his German drums.

COG Pharisees, Judgement, and Christ who Calls us Friend

I was involved in the Church of God (Armstrongism) movement for over 20 years. In fact, I was born and raised into it. From my immediate family to all those that I have been affiliated within the movement, to all the sermons, booklets, and articles that I had ingested throughout my time in that tenure, there is one aspect that was nearly completely never talked about - the relationship that a Believer has with Jesus Christ. More specifically, the fact that Jesus Christ is our friend!

The only aspect of Jesus Christ that was continually blasted from the pulpit, over and over again - was Jesus as King and Ruler - which He duly is. He was the One who would return to this Earth with fire in His eyes. He was the One with a double-edged sword - one you feared and trembled to cross wrongly. He was known to us nearly always only as "Christ". The one thing you did not want to do - and feared doing, was blaspheming his name by accident - saying, doing, thinking the wrong thing, with a paranoid and wretched fear of punishment for doing the wrong thing. To say we were out of balance is the understatement of the century! 

I'm not saying one should not have a healthy, reverent, and awestruck respect of Jesus Christ. In fact, I believe that wholeheartedly! What I am saying is that we did not - in any way or form or shape - acknowledge Him as not only King, Ruler, and God, but also, and just as importantly- as Friend, Brother, and Advocate. We treated Him as our Superior, but not as One who we love, and as one who loves us back. We were taught to love and honor God as our spiritual Superior - but not in a relationship of deep, abiding, and joyous freedom of love as our closest Brother and most trusted Friend. 

Let me give an example here of what I am talking about. Recently an article was posted here from the Ambassador College Ambassador Correspondence Course, which really was not an article at all - but a snippet. In the snippet, it was pointed out the entirely physical and ridiculous statements by Herbert Armstrong and hirelings about Jesus Christ zipping around the world like lightning , and going to "the Fathers throne", "millions" of miles away (Herb had NO clue what he was talking about here, as usual), and back, all in one day. Noting exactly what Herb was talking about, the superpower speed and lightning fast physical attributes of Jesus - I had no problem comparing Jesus with "The Flash". - because that was exactly what Herbert was saying. That Jesus was more like "Superman", or some super-powerful Mortal Being, entirely bounded by the rules and laws of our mortal Universe. This - predictably - struck up the ire and fire of the Armstrongites - who quickly - at the speed of the Pharisees' rage and temper (and fear) - condemned the entire post as BLASPHEMY. Another took offense at an image that was added to the post after I sent it in - calling that image as "crossing a line that should not be crossed." 

Really? No, I mean... REALLY? 

I offer absolutely no apologies for my reference! I offer no apologies to my post! Why? Am I being an unrepentant blasphemer? Am I being a disrespectful, rebellious, shameful apostate who has lost all respect and love for my Savior? Am I just a lost soul wallowing around in muck after the WCG experience? No, no, and NO. Let me tell you first and foremost I have the deepest love for Jesus - and He has the deepest love for ME. No, I'm not being pretentious. I'm not being arrogant. Because Jesus also has the deepest love for YOU, too - whether or not you return the favor to Him or not, or acknowledge Him, or not, or are so buried in this physical realm that all other realms seem nonexistent and purely fiction. There is a relationship between us and with Jesus - a friendship, a bond, a security - a trust and a loyalty that is bound by the grace and love of Jesus through the power and binding of the Holy Spirit - who is IN US - Christ IN us. This is relationship. 

On the other side, we have the Armstrong Pharisees - who, like the Pharisees of two thousand years ago, hear one reference, one comparison, and one analogy about Jesus Christ that offends them and what do they yell? Blasphemer! Apostate! Sick! Disgusting! - ready to "throw us bloggers in the mud" and stone us with their words and keyboards for what they think is so offensive. 

I am absolutely certain God - and Jesus - were not offended. Why? Because they understand the heart and the intent of my words because He and I are friends. 

Let's say you are FRIENDS - close friends - with a Royal King. You KNOW this King personally - why? Because you are related to that King. You live in the same palace. You understand that King inside and out. You know Him. You trust Him. You are there with him all the time because you're the King's Brother. Unless that king is a real prick - which our Lord is NOT - you would NOT be afraid of him - because he KNOWS you. I mean - KNOWS you. Friends are like that! You can love them, respect them, and honor them! But you also know that he knows what you say in your heart is honest and truthful - and you don't have to fear that person because of the relationship you have with that person. That's relationship. That's real. That's what The Father has done for us because we acknowledge what Jesus did for you and me.  

Jesus - the King - God, Immortal, Invincible, and only Wise - calls us friend. We - saved by His blood, and his Grace, and mercy - call Him friend. We need not fear making Him angry, ready to strike us with a bolt of lightning at every single thing that offends humans. Jesus didn't offend the Father when all the Pharisees were ready to kill him for the things He was saying about God and Himself. We, as Christians, know God and He knows us. It is that very friendship - that intimate relationship between God and Man - He and I - YOU and HIM - that provides the peace and love that transcends all understanding. A God who knows our hearts and our words, and a God who loves us. It is that relationship that I pray all who call themselves Christians will receive, will savor, and will enjoy, as they walk in His footsteps as His Hands and Feet. It's time to not only acknowledge and respect Jesus as King and Ruler - but as Friend and Brother - without fear, knowing He alone knows our heart and He alone is our Judge. Pharisees in Armstrongism should lay down their gabbles and step off the bench of their self-appointed judgemental attitudes - because they have no power over those they complain about. My security and my judgement is in Christ alone - my brother, and my Friend. And so is yours. Think about that one word - relationship - and think on it deeply. You might just see that word in a whole new light where our Lord is concerned. I hope it does.

submitted by SHT

The Kids Got Screwed When It Came To Receiving Gifts!

The Kids Got Screwed When It Came To Receiving Gifts!

Is it any wonder that most of the children who have been raised in the Armstrong Churches of God don't stay in the church? For the sake of this post, I won't question the motives of Herbert Armstrong and those who have followed in his apostolic footsteps. Nevertheless, if we take an objective look at the consequences for the kids, we begin to see why they might feel like they got the short end of the stick when it came to receiving gifts from their parents and other family members.

Think about it. There was no Christmas - no gifts under the Christmas tree or in their stockings. There were no birthday gifts, because everybody knew that only wicked folks celebrated birthdays. There weren't many gifts any other time of the year either, because "God's Work" needed every penny they could get (and everyone was supposed to be giving a full ten percent of their GROSS income AND special offerings on all of the high days).

What about festival gifts? The official advice/guidance/directive from the church: "Some members have purchased gifts for their children so that the children might better enjoy the Feast. Gifts for small children at Feast time helps make the Feast special for them — a time to look forward to each year. But in other cases, some people have overdone the giving of gifts at Feast time, sometimes buying expensive items they couldn't really afford. Usually such items are used during the rest of the year as well. This goes far beyond the principle of using the festival funds to provide a joyous, happy Feast."  Festival Tithe - Your Questions Answered

And, just in case you might have a little extra money to spend on the kids at the festival, the church said: "it has always been the practice of the Church members who have more than they need to turn in this excess to the Church." (same link) There was also the tithe of the tithe to suck up those extra funds: "Several years ago, because of the considerable expenses of providing the facilities and handling year-round administrative needs for the Feast, Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong directed all members of the Church to send in one tenth of their festival tithe to cover these costs. This is commonly referred to as the tithe of the tithe." (same link)

Poor kids - they never had a chance! Wonder what they were thinking when they saw all of the gifts that their Catholic and Protestant friends received from their family and friends? Oh, that's right, my bad - they weren't supposed to have any friends outside of the church anyway! Never mind.God Cannot Be Contained