Sunday, April 14, 2013

Dave Pack: Terminations, Resignations, Disabilities, Defections and Death Will Soon Be Rampant in ALL The Splinter Groups

Dave Pack, the worlds most incredible man running the most mind boggling Church of God to ever grace this earth is now hearing something he calls god speak directly to him.  This god he spoke with went into great detail with 7 steps for the final days of the Church of God and humanity.   Whether it is 7 steps or 33 steps, the god of Armstrongism has to have steps or points to get his point across.  God has never inspired a minister in the Church of God to preach a sermon or write an article without a bunch of steps or bullet points.

This think that Dave calls god, recently came down to Wadsworth and spoke to him. After a stroll around the most beautiful Church HQ ever to be built, Dave's god took him into the basement of his new administration building and revealed just how he plans to destroy the 600 some splinter groups of the Church of God.  Because of that destruction Dave is supposed to plan on all the tens of thousand COGers out there to come rushing back to him with wallets open.

Dave writes:

What is coming in the prophecy’s present chapters is not complicated to understand. God makes clear that what happens will fall into seven categories! Brief summary statements are all that is necessary to understand HOW—in what WAYS—the splinter organizations will decline and eventually collapse after a final, prophesied culminating event.

Dave then lists the points his god told him to say:

(1) More and more people will leave, and are already leaving, the big and medium-sized organizations.

(2) The governments, headquarters and various corporate boards within these organizations will experience more politicking, confusion and division, possibly including splits.

(3) Declining income—people leaving or withholding tithes and offerings—including lower Holy Day offerings—is happening and will worsen. (But remember, income can be level, or even slightly up, while the organization’s actual scope and reach is shrinking because inflation alone eats up small increases, and usually more than this. Hiring of staff and ministers [other than replacements] and all forms of true expansion have basically already come to an end.)

With LCG's recent embarrassing turn of events over their cancellation of their Canadian broadcast stations, UCG embarrassing and money draining split with COGWA, and PCG's steep drop in income, Dave's god has made it clear that we are witnessing the implosion and ultimate death of ALL 600 some splinter groups except his.

Dave then proposes that the employees of the various groups will start feeling the coldness of Satan taking over their HQ's.  People will see the failure of the leaders, the declining income, the cold hardheartedness of the ministry and members.  They will then know they are in darkness and need to come into the light of Dave's glorious heavenly presence.  Absolutely none of the various splinter groups, including Bob Thiel's group, have been producing fruit.  Only Dave is able to produce a bountiful harvest.

(4) As groups long cut off from the Vine, Jesus Christ, and outside His Body, but still having a little of God’s Spirit, the production of even this small amount of God’s Spirit will dissipate and dry up. This is already happening. Part of this will be coworkers and donors drying up, which will worsen number 3 above. Consider the following. All that in a sense “naturally grows of itself” will disappear with organizations starving toward nothing. Think. All “widget” companies of the world get some “return.” But these “returns” in the splinters will disappear! Also, there will be a growing sense when attending services, or working at various headquarters, that one is in a kind of wilderness that is growing colder. All perceived advancements (basically smoke and mirrors that were never real, anyway) will come to a grinding halt—and possibly soon. But this is not to say that fruit from God will disappear, because there has never been any. Christ did not build and has never headed any of these organizations.

Soon the Church of God will see their ministers and their wives in horrible distress as resignations, firings, and defections occur as people scramble to maintain salaries.  Dave even predicts death will rage through the ministry and administrators of the various splinter groups.  Is he predicting suicides or deaths from strokes and heart attacks brought on by the COG implosion?  Or, is he going to be like Neville Stevens goons who claim they will be welding swords against all who disagree with them?

(5) An increasing loss of ministers and administrators will occur—leaders at various levels will be taken away. This will be due to terminations, resignations, disability, defection, death and disqualification, etc. And this will involve wives. (This part of the announcement could easily include a growing list of ministers’ names [and wives] that began to significantly increase in the mid-autumn, but had also been happening before then.) After a point, ministers will start losing their jobs and find themselves scrambling to survive. Also already happening, this will include disfellowships (of brethren or ministers) to preserve supposed “unity.” Unable to break people and ministers who will not compromise the truth, leaders copying the very methods of the Worldwide Church of God apostates because they are led by the same spirit will summarily “deal with” these said-to-be “rebels” and “enemies” who are “sowing division.” This new, greater level of truly dark, devilish conduct coming from the top of these organizations against those who won’t give up the truth—people they cannot break—will worsen. I know what some are suffering, and what more will. I’ve tasted such tactics by compromised, evil leaders.

I have to laugh at his comment above about the "dark, devilish conduct coming from the top organizations", this coming from a man who has deliberately tried to destroy peoples lives over his years in the church.  Manipulation, lies and backstabbing have been the trail of destruction left in Dave's wake. 

Dave then gloats the the splinter groups will see rapid decline in income and complete loss of financial reserves, all the while Dave's coffers rise with his plenary indulgences he will require from all new incoming members, at least the the 10 or 20 who will join him.

(6) There will continue to be shrinkage and loss of financial reserves—accumulated wealth, if you will—that have been built up by organizations against “rainy days.” There will also be the break-up and loss of some assets, as scheduled payments begin to be missed because the “rain” won’t stop. This will likely come after organizations have cut back in easier areas hoping this will stanch bleeding. It won’t work. The bleeding will not stop.
Dave then predicts that LCG will lose more stations as their income continues to drop:

(7) Media “doors” will continue to close. Simple lack of income will force organizations to shut more and more of what splinter leaders have long called and presumed to be “open doors before us.” (For instance, just TODAY, yet again, the Living Church of God has suddenly dropped another major television outlet. Having in March dropped its Sunday ION Television slot, it is now also quietly dropping its WEDNESDAY slot—and thus ION altogether—with its last airing date to be May 15. Truly incredible, this very day (to be announced tomorrow) LCG is also touting to its members how its income is doing better over recent days! You must watch for these inconsistencies carefully crafted to hide the shrinking—the retreating—of the “work” these organizations do.)
Dave then has this dire waring for all the members who cling on to their failing churches as their leaders deny things are happening.  In one swift moment Dave's god will cause a miracle to happen that causes them ALL to cease operating at the same time.  Dave though will be spared.

Take note. These things will not of themselves break the stubborn resolve—and resistance to what God is doing—of thousands of brethren, and hundreds of ministers, who will remain “holdouts” in the face of ever more evidence—powerful facts! Therefore, God will bring a culminating event, which could be called the eighth thing to happen, in a way that implodes these groups OVERNIGHT and leaves thousands of people in utter shock at what they just witnessed. Those who are regularly reading these announcements will be somewhat less surprised, but also stunned. This event will be explained in the future.

Then martyr Dave kicks in gear as he predicts intense persecution for his strong words.

Leaders will mock and ridicule as ludicrous what they will see as baseless assertions in this announcement. Think. What choice do they have? They must do this! Our extraordinary advancement, expansion, blessings and fruit—SUCCESS in the face of their FAILURE—threatens them. These leaders will wish I would just “leave them alone.” (Translate this, “Quit telling people what’s really going on. We need them in the dark.”) They (so will others) will say, “How presumptuous—and arrogant—of David Pack to make such pronouncements! Who does he think he is?” Certainly these statements are provocative. But these things WILL HAPPEN, and the even barely discerning reader will see they already are! What is written in these announcements are not the “forecasts” of another ignorant, false prophet kook (you know the names). I am not a prophet. These are GOD’S words, made most clear in Scripture. There is no need to invent these things (Rom. 1:30). This would just invite what would be well-deserved ridicule when they didn’t come to pass. But neither is there need to defend them—nor in any way to convince you of them. God will. Like all of God’s designated servants, my job is to inform, prepare and warn of what God says is coming.

Most important of all Dave wants to make sure you know what to do with your money.  That is ultimately what all of this bloviating by Dave is all about. Its the money.

The Restored Church of God has become nothing more than a cheap whore dressed up like a a high priced whore.  The more money you give the better service you will get.

"God’s Church will continue to grow and EXPLODE with His blessings!"


Michael said...

All these and previous "announcements" each Friday sound very much like a calculated gamble on RCG's part:
The fact that the WCG splinter groups and their further descendant splinters continue to break up and in-fight, is an obvious fact, and as someone else on this site termed it, "the sharks are circling in the water", with Pack's group being one of the larger sharks.
So, he has no guarantee how many he can attract and absorb, but in this game it is often the loudest, shrillest, most confident-sounding voice that wins more booty. That's why his letters exude such rock-solid confidence - he knows, of course, that all the members won't come wimpering home to RCG, but if you can sound authoritative when you make your claims, well, then you'll probably do better than most.

Anonymous said...

Pack is nothing more than just another wolf in sheep's clothing sucking and milking members of tithes so that he could live in comfort, using the name of God. He should realize that with HWA's death, WCG died with him because this is not the true church. He is trying to revive what ever remains of the remnants which are just dying. Why doesn't he look for a more decent occupation? HWA already did that kind of strategy during his time. We live in a different world and a different circumstance and technology. His organization is just dying as the rest of the cultic WCG remnants.

Head Usher said...

Great, now Pack is styling himself as not just a false apostle, but also as a false prophet. He's just another narcissistic con artist who wants weak, credulous people to see him as being special, stroke his ego, and hand over their money.

He says all the COG "splinter groups" will decline into oblivion in various ways. Last I checked, RCG was a COG "splinter group," and I don't know enough about RCG, but I would suspect that ALL of these things are happening to RCG just as much, because they're happening across the board for systematic reasons. Pack is a braggart who makes a lot of false or at the very least, hugely exaggerated claims that are just the same old "smoke and mirrors" he's accusing the other splinters of. That's what HWA did too! All of the advances he wants his members to perceive aren't real either. No imaginary christ built RCG, or WCG, and no imaginary christ was ever the "head" of any of these despicable COG organizations.

Anonymous said...

Using Pack's own logic, does the death of Pack's wife a few years ago prove that HE is a false apostle not favored by God?

Anonymous said...

"God will bring a culminating event, which could be called the eighth thing to happen, in a way that implodes these groups OVERNIGHT and leaves thousands of people in utter shock at what they just witnessed." Dave Pack

Dave believes he is "Joshua" and that perhaps in August 3 COG leading ministers will die the same day.

Although he may have modified this by now who knows.

Anonymous said...

A few things to consider by those RCG members visiting quiely here.

He keeps reminding you from the pulpit what a good teacher/leader he is....but nobody has heard of him.

When faced with a personal problem that you need his council on, he snaps "What do you want me to do about it!?"

He removes associate ministers from the church that become popular with the church family.

He does not conduct funerals unless he absolutely cannot get out of it.

He thinks people will lose their blessing if they don't get a chance to donate to his ministry.

He only accepts correction from ministers of equal anointing or higher, so don't even think about it.

He doesn't visit people in the hospital unless he absolutely can't get out of it or God tells him to go, which is not often.

He tells stories from the pulpit of people who were healed through his prayers and none of them go to his church.

He removes associate ministers who can preach as well as he does.

He is rarely seen in the company of low-income congregants.

He believes you should compete against each other to 'get around his anointing.'

He feels his adult children are owed big church salaries despite their lack of experience at, well.....everything

He returns from headquarters and hints how he corrected their doctrine, taught the leaders back their own sermons to them and was generally Joe Cool when he was there.

He becomes VERY upset if you don't call him by his title.

He tells you that as your pastor he is your 'anointing connection.'

He thinks sneering at pastors of smaller churches is acceptable.

He hints that higher profile ministers come to him for advice.

He tells you outright that all his peers come to him for advice.

He maintains he is the one that God sent to preach his favorite doctrines to the area: he's God's man for your town. Someone preaching a similar message in the area is not God's man for the area.

He competes with other ministers to be top dog in the eyes of those he admires and imitates.

He believes the type of ministry he does (teacher, prophet, etc.) is the most important.

You may NOT ask how money is spent in the church.

He regularly suggests there are other preachers/congregants trying to undermine him.

Congregants are charged for copies of his Sunday sermons.

He cannot take a joke. And if you try to tease him, he MUST retaliate.

He feels that the church is riding the coattails of his faith.

Match each of the above examples with the characteristics taken from Narcissism In The Pulpit below. There are no wrong answers.

You are welcome to post comments of other examples of "Your pastor might be a narcissist if..."

1. Feels grandiose and self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements & talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

2. Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion.

3. Firmly convinced that he or she is unique &, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions).

4. Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention & affirmation - or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).

5. Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special & favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations.

6. Is "interpersonally exploitative", I.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends.

7. Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others.

8. Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her.

9. Arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted

Anonymous said...

How can RCG be serious without a Performing Arts Palace to present subsidized High Culture to the community/world?

Flurry has him beat on this Arm$trong essential.

To be truely faithful he should have a couple of Jews running it like Rader/Khun
(Jews transferring money to other Jews right under Herbert's nose)

Anonymous said...

That list could be Dave's quarterly evaluation.

Anonymous said...

Right. None of this is prophetic, it's observation of events already happened/happening. So it's prophecy the way Daniel is prophecy -- not actually, but pretend.

Anonymous said...

Someone said: “No imaginary christ built RCG, or WCG, and no imaginary christ was ever the "head" of any of these despicable COG organizations.”
I agree whole heartily with that statement, but this does not mean that the biblical story about God and Christ is the figment of human imagination. It means that human reasoning has missed the whole message and is engaged in the destructive battle of determining who is the greatest in proving the abuses and misuses of information designed to give purpose and meaning to our human existence.
If the biblical God and Christ teaches a way of life that may lead to better human existence while we walk the journey of life it would be wise to be the few that use the scriptures to find it, rather than allow these abuses and misuses to be distractions that avoid a deeper understanding of the biblical story.

Joe Moeller said...

I make a prediction here that is an absolute guaranteed surety...

By not having a PAIN IN THE ASS like Pack in my life, it will surely be better.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Joe Moeller said...

Pack COG Business Model 101...

It is more profitable on a dollar per dollar invested level to get previous tithing COG members to come to your goofy church than it is to try to recruit new paying believers from the world.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Assistant Deacon said...

Give Pack some overalls and a pitchfork and he'd look just like the farmer in the American Gothic painting.

I'd rather listen to the guy in the painting.

Anonymous said...

Gollum and the Ring is a perfect description of David Pack. He is headed to the depths of Mordor to find the ring and have everlasting significance. Little does he know is just another COG pissant.

Michael said...

Joe Moeller said: "It is more profitable on a dollar per dollar invested level to get previous tithing COG members to come to your goofy church than it is to try to recruit new paying believers from the world."

That's an interesting point made - it's not only that they're not being extremely successful in attempts to recruit outsiders (which they aren't of course), it's also that they are certainly not trying as hard, because the cost-benefit ratio is better if you cannibalize other splinters.
Existing WCGers already have a lot of the basics down, don't have to be taught how stupendously great HWA was, and most importantly, already understand how important tithing is! :-)

Anonymous said...

"There will continue to be shrinkage and loss of financial reserves"

The only shrinkage I see is in Dave's level of sanity - the only loss I portend is in Dave's mental capacities. His gleeful gloating of the coming destruction to all COG splinters except his own is run-of-the-mill HWA-like hyperbole, so nothing really new there. Such "prophecies" are just the latest verbal antics that his followers need to keep their "spiritual lives" in high gear for the "bell lap." It's common knowledge that other splinter groups are doing relatively little right now, so Dave is trying to appear by comparison to be the only group that his tribal deity is working through. Nothing new there either.

Though on a more serious note, I wonder if Dave, in his mental deterioration, has hired a mafia hit man to cause such devastation predicted for this coming late summer and fall. Don't laugh - Dave's infamous "win-at-all-costs" attitude could very easily spin totally out of control, especially in the manic state he seems to presently be in. However this latest melodrama ends up, one thing we can bank on is that it won't keep him from his next round of craziness sure to follow.

Anonymous said...

"God will bring a culminating event, which could be called the eighth thing to happen, in a way that implodes these groups OVERNIGHT and leaves thousands of people in utter shock at what they just witnessed."

Consider this rant by Dave Pack in the light of the obvious state of mental derangement he's in. Also, considering what past abuses he's committed, don't underestimate what destructive acts this guy might be capable of, especially when he's under the impression that he's being guided by an all-knowing god. He's a fanatic who sees "god" behind everything, even the things that he may be personally orchestrating. Just a word to the wise.

Anonymous said...

Again...DP has it in his head that 3 COG competetors will die on the same day and then that will show the way to him...

If this is not his big event yet to be announced that will stun..then he has made up something else.

Anonymous said...

"God has never inspired a minister in the Church of God to preach a sermon or write an article without a bunch of steps or bullet points."

1. Pack'tard uses bullet points.
2. Bullet points upset Leo'tard.
3. Leo and Pack'tard don't get along.
4. See the connection?

Anonymous said...

"I wonder if Dave, in his mental deterioration, has hired a mafia hit man to cause such devastation predicted for this coming late summer and fall."

If he starts doing that, a lot of ex-COG people will suddenly "repent" and donations to his church will skyrocket! Go for it Dave!

Anonymous said...

Hey Joe, Don't forget that without the UCG, your life would be better, too!
The "joe-luv of cowbell jesus-n-herbie" can only go so far!

Byker Bob said...

Further illustration that Armstrongism, when properly practiced, absolutely corrupts the leaders attempting to exercise and enforce it. Pack is as crazy as Weinland, Malm, King, Thiel, or any of the other self-proclaimed leaders who have been featured here.

If these prophecies of his come to pass, people aren't going to be lining up to get into his congregations, they're going to be volunteering for the Lake of Fire!
If Pack is God's gatekeeper, your salvation ain't gonna be worth a sack of fertilizer! Fortunately, it's not our loving God who is inspiring these little Herbie-Hitlers!


Velvet said...

Destruction, implosion, devastation...when the prophecies old Packatollah is referring to here (Note how he doesn't state Bible verses to back up what he says....Davey doesn't want the sheeple to prove all things, apparently), say the Church will be BUILT UP...not destroyed. All of which depends on whether or not you believe God has converted members throughout all the splinter groups (which is a pretty big "if" that Pack is counting on).

As for the destruction "in one day/hour/night" etc., the prophecies in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel that Pack is referring to, states that the captors of the Church are the ones who will be removed from the power they have over us suddenly, without warning; which, from where I'm sitting, puts Pack in the hot seat too! And all the rest of the splinter group leaders....But not least of which will be the Evangelical "denominational leadership."

At least, this is my understanding of what the GRUMPs believe; I lean towards those prophecies eventually coming true, but I think the seventy years under the Babylonians will be literally seventy years...and we're not even a third of the way there yet. As always, the false prophets can't see the forest for the trees, and they want it all to happen suddenly, in this age, time is short, etcetera.

"Neville Stevens goons who claim they will be welding swords against all who disagree with them?"

Say what? Sounds like that group needs a refresher course on Military Service and War!

Velvet said...

"Dave believes he is "Joshua""

When did this happen? In 2008 he was saying he was the next Elijah, wasn't he?

Pretty soon Pack is going to start running out of names....

Anonymous said...

Velvet, you are just as stupid, foolish and mislead as Dave Pack and all his followers. You just don't realize it.

Michael said...

Anonymous said...
"... you are just as stupid, foolish and mislead as Dave Pack and all his followers."

Anon, what's with the insults? If you are a former COGer, there was a time when you were misled as well, and believed in COG doctrines, prophecy and the whole schmere. Would you have wanted to be insulted then, and would it have helped?

Also, unless there's some important reason to remain anonymous, is it so hard to just type your name in?

Anonymous said...

"Dave believes he is "Joshua""

When did this happen? In 2008 he was saying he was the next Elijah, wasn't he?"

Elija got tired of coming time it will be Joshua.

Anonymous said...

"It is more profitable on a dollar per dollar invested level to get previous tithing COG members to come to your goofy church than it is to try to recruit new paying believers from the world."

That sounds like the UCG model.

What's also hilarious is how a little cattle rustling in Zambia caused the UCG to splinter in half!

But, I'm sure all those Satan-influenced, tithe paying, defecting to the "Church of God, a Worldwide Association" former UCG members were just jerks with "bad money", anyway!

More families split apart!
More friendships split apart!
Yay! It's the WCG and the UCG way!!!

UCG, please tell Dave Pack how wonderful and "united" everything is at the UCG...I'm sure he'll be impressed!

Anonymous said...

That it's all about the money hit me hard in the face in 1995 as UCG was getting started. I was still attending WCG in Seattle when two of my married AC classmates stopped by to attend services during a trip. He'd been a WCG pastor for a couple of decades. He was greatly relieved that UCG was finally getting up & running, since he knew his salaried days at WCG were in jeopardy. Not a word about God or the truth or the suffering & confusion of the many thousands of Herbie's deceived devotees---just his means to earn a living. I ceased contact with all the Armstrong cults not long thereafter. Monnie

Anonymous said...

United Church of God: Swear allegiance to the Council or GTFO! And if you're female, Melvin would like to see your boobs before you go.

Anonymous said...

"United Church of God: Swear allegiance to the Council or GTFO! And if you're female, Melvin would like to see your boobs before you go."

Even man-boobs.
United is udderly desperate these days!