Friday, August 2, 2013

Dennis on: "August is: International Medications NOT Congregations Month!"

August is:
 International Medications NOT Congregations Month! 
Men With Strange and Weird Ideas Never Recognize 
Their Ideas Are Strange and Weird
So Obama golfs a lot. Can't he at least walk the egalitarian walk
Some things just beg for a reminder...If you are tired of hearing this quote then stop reading immediately.  David Pack said this approximately five months before he split from Global Church of God and started his own version based on strange and weird ideas about himself he could no longer suppress.  He is doing it again with his own version of the One True Church but this time splitting from himself. 
    "I want to make a statement, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
David C. Pack 
First of all, please realize that I recognize that I have quoted this December 1998 quote a number of times.  Why?  Because it is classic and tells one all they need to know about how one man thinks and WHEN this occurs, as it is obvious the man is concerned about actually happening now that he is in charge, this is exactly how it will play out. This is David Pack's premier prophecy about what would be coming both to his tenure with Global and now once again to RCG.  While the obligatory disclaimer of "But I'll tell you what, I am not going anywhere," is also a relatively sincere statement of mind that is somewhat clear of strange and weird ideas at that moment, but the Genie begs to be free of the bottle.     Dave has probably entertained many strange and weird ideas about himself in ministry and his calling over the years and now that he is on his own with no over site and no accountability, it will become very difficult to repress and suppress them in the future. 
Senate Bill Would Take Guns from Mentally Ill
That time of having to deal with strange and weird ideas  has come for David C. Pack and the members of his Restored Church of God.  The problem seems to be that, as predicted, Dave would be able to deceive them, explain away why these strange and weird ideas aren't strange and weird at all and few if any of them will actually repeat Dave's warning to them about him back to him.  The track record for those that try to repeat anything back to Dave of a cautionary nature has never been good for the those that attempt such things. He can be a bit intimidating at least in a cloistered setting. 
Creative Connections » Blog Archive » I'm Watching You!
I want to make a statement about me.. now...  
If I see that David C. Pack is deceived...I simply need to point it out.    
(sorry couldn't resist). 
 I grew up in an extremely stable home where dad went to work at 7 and was home by 5 every night, five days a week for decades.  Everyone had every weekend off and we vacationed in the Adirondacks two weeks out of every year for as long as i can remember.  Days of fishing, laughing, swimming, exploring and quiet time that I have ever since craved.  Fresh water lakes, the smell of gasoline in an outboard and worms stored in wet newspaper for fishing are strong memories. We ate every evening meal together and we liked doing it.  Church was twice a Sunday event and I can't remember one sermon the pastor ever gave, but they were good, easy on the mind and gentle. 
In a Dutch Orthodox Church you learned the Bible, Old Testament and New.  In school I memorize whole chapters to say them PERFECTLY in competitions with others.  By the time I went to Ambassador College there was no story or place in the Bible I had not already soaked in.....except Revelation, which never ever came up in any context I can remember.  Thus, that was the hook that attracted me to WCG along with what seemed to be a bigger picture as to how it all fit together.  By the time I was in High School, I knew i wanted to go to seminary and pastor.  It seemed the best and highest calling and fit my stable background and upbringing.  I had been accepted to Roberts Wesleyan Seminary in Rochester, but chose you know where....  If I had chosen RWS instead of WCG, the story would have been different but I know very well I would have come to the same conclusions living out that story as I did with WCG.  My regret is that no seminary or church is going to tell you what your really need to know to make a right decision about the Bible. 
 In either story I KNOW I would have come to see the Bible has its problems. .  It is not without major errors and contradictions.  It did not come from where one thinks it did and it is highly political.  There never was one true church even it's pages and all never did believe the same thing about Jesus.  Whole books were not written by the names affixed and it is not one seamless , coherent text.  It contains bad science and is not a treatise on where humans came from or how the Universe organized itself. 
The Gospels may indeed be a huge passion play written to bring Jesus, yet another Sun of God , down to earth and literalize the journey of the Sun  through the 12 signs of the Zodiac.  Paul's Jesus was cosmic in scope, never lived a real life on earth for the most part, never met or quoted by Paul and was crucified in the heavens by evil forces in the sky. Paul's Jesus was hallucinatory in his mind.  When Jesus gave things to Paul, it was in visions.  Gospel Jesus never heard of Paul and Paul never heard of Gospel Jesus even though Paul brags on being the best Pharisee in Jerusalem under the best teacher, which I doubt.   Paul's Jesus comes first in the NT and then Gospel Jesus but the current order of the NT gives a different impression of what was really going on.  I spare us....
The World Wide Church of God and all the characters, like the Armstrongs, Tkaches, Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack and too many others slowly drove me into the very anxiety and fear I was probably trying to dampen down as a kid, as I perceived the world,  by going to it in the first place.  I also had a blind, deaf and non-speaking brother I had to fix along with all his friends at the State Hospital in Newark, NY. where I spent every Sunday afternoon between Church for 15 years.  I spent years pastoring but in denial of what was going on around me in "THE Church".   In my experience, the stable, open minded and good hearted actual minister types always lost out to the loons. I realized that my coping skills were not good and I attribute that to that stability of youth where I didn't know what coping was.  
No minister in my youth ever remotely made the kinds of statements about themselves or even the Church that we see in these loose cannons produced by the WCG implosion. Of course many made such statements as part of WCG.   No man in ministry in my experience would ever spend two seconds explaining to me why he was special.  Jesus would get here when he got here but since everyone was going to heaven and no Hell was discussed, don't base your life on those statements in scripture.  Wish I had listened. No Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Watchers, Witnesses or Wackos need apply.  It just never came up.  If it had, that man would have been looking for work by the next day.  The ministers in my pre-WCG days did not control the congregation.  They served it. They could also be dismissed by it. 
 They were called to encourage it and teach balanced living and doctrine.  No minister would ever remotely think to utter the insane words nor give the kinds of sermons seen in the ego cults of a Gerald Flurry or a Dave Pack.  Their training was of a quality that would never allow that and their understanding of the Bible was much more realistic.  They were not God Haunted men. They were not given to scriptural fantasy about their importance and probably would either fall out laughing at a Dave Pack or say that the man needed to be out of ministry and on medications.  They were simply ministers, in my experience, of the hope that lay within them too and they wanted to share it.  I am sorry for the difficult time I gave him as a kid over all things Bible, but I am not so sorry today giving the likes of Dave Pack a hard time.  The difference is that my childhood ministers were very fine , stable , highly theologically educated and caring men.  Dave Pack does not rate this kind of respect with all his strange and weird ideas about himself as does Gerald Flurry not.
David C. Pack, aka  Joshua C Pack, Joshua W. Packstrong, Joshua W. Armpack, David W. Armstrong, is spewing the strange and weird ideas he warned his congregation to be on the lookout for and call him out on.  He is getting away with it just fine.  
"I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? "
The "brethren" obviously didn't and still don't understand what Dave was saying.  I'm not in Dave's Church.  I'm not under his control.  I'm not into his self view.  I know the Bible does not mean in Haggai what Dave wants it to mean about himself.  But I am going to do as Dave instructed.  I am going to quote it right back to him. 
Where in the world of the Christian religion do ministers invest so much time and effort into telling their congregations just who they are, where they stand in the pecking order of "God's form of Government," and how you need to respect that first and foremost?  Where else do men spend hours preaching self ordinations to Apostle, Priest or Prophet.  Dr Bob Thiel is simply hilarious to have the need to find a 'double blessing" in an anointing for feeling a bit under the weather as a sign that he now is a Prophet.  Simply hilarious. In the world of my youth, he'd only attract incredulous forehead slapping.  The reason these guys can't say the word "Jesus" in their musings is because they aren't of Jesus. They are of Armstrong plain and simple.  Dave Pack could never be of Apollos because he IS Apollos in his mind.  Of course all claim to be "of Christ."   That word works for all of them. 
Where in any balanced Christian ministry would you hear...
"Yeah, I know, one or two can leave and say, 'Hey, you stopped preaching and started meddling, now you're messing with my goods here on earth' "

"First Timothy 6 verse 17...'Charge them that are rich in this world'...If you were born in the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, then you're rich"

"If you hold those riches, I'm telling you, you trust in them"

"Go get a big chunk out of your home. And put your money where your mouth is and send it here. And I'm not talking about one, two, three thousand either. How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars? Go do it."
Someone had to photoshop that crazy preacher guy. - CollegeHumor

"Wives, you can be independent in this. 
You have 1/2 the worth of whatever you have in your house.
I'm officially telling you this...Wives, legally you have the 1/2 the funds. 
What are you going to do about it?...
Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'
...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman' "
"Go get those assets and get them here"
David C. Pack 
The Clarion Call
The answer is nowhere where any real minister helping people's joy pastored. If you sit through a harangue like that and think it is acceptable and appropriate, you are also insane.
 Outside of the kinds of people that are evidently drawn to these guys, where do you find those that would ever tolerate their minister saying that a minor prophet in the Old Testament, Haggai, which they would have to check the index to find, foretells a future Joshua the High Priest who would reunite ALL and their pastor just happens to be this fanciful character?  What kind of insane stupidity is that?  I dare Dave Pack to clearly explain to his television audience his view of himself as spoken of by the "prophet" Haggai.  I dare him.     Herbert Armstrong never had the guts to actually preach the Gospel to "Kings" or explain just who he thought he was which he actually wasn't.  I am sure Dave will explain it in terms of "a strong voice from somewhere," but never quite get around to explaining the details of just who this strong voice thinks he is and where he is spoken of in the Bible 2500 years ago.  Dave can't tell the truth of his delusions to the public or instead of sending it in all he'll hear is "click."  Come on Dave, give that "I am Joshua the High Priest spoken of in the minor Prophet Haggai in the 6th century BCE" broadcast....
Where in the world of Christianity do you find Bob Jones University the First, Second and Third?   Nowhere.  Bob Jones University has it's drop outs, splits and detractors all very similar to those that WCG brought on itself.  There are the conservatives who went bonkers over letting blacks in.  There are liberals (by comparison but still sticklers for law and order) who want Bob Jones the 3rd or 4th , I forget, to lighten up, which he did.  That always happens down the road.  Bob Jones the First thundered, "It will be over my dead body that there will ever be kissing on this campus."  BJ the First is buried on the campus so guess where the kids go to kiss?  They have a gay and lesbian community on campus they are in absolute denial over.  Former students and pastors walk around the outside with protest signs over one issue or the other.  A security guard shot into a car that did not stop at the security entrance a while back. The really big Baptist church across the street form the entrance is off limits to students as it pastored by a rebellious and off track former graduate.  But nowhere on earth is someone building more true Bob Jones campuses to lure the super in the know students to and to follow the reincarnated Bob Jones the First.  
The reason Pack and Flurry built their personal and physical plants is for control.  In their minds they actually think there is NO other place on earth where one can get a theological education of the correct perspective, which is insane.  
Loose Cannons | Renaissance Outfitters
These are men who simply cannot work WITH others or FOR others.  They are LTC's.  Loose Theological Cannons, or Canons. And they are wrong about themselves.  Herbert was never really "Zeurbbabel."  Dave Pack is no real Joshua and Gerald Flurry is not really "That Prophet."   Make an analogy if you wish, but these men aren't making analogies. They are lying to themselves and others and making scripture mean what it never meant.
60 More Ways The Federal Government Flushes Our Money Down The Rat
That sucking sound is indeed your tithes and offerings going down the drain to pay for lights, heat , air, water, fountains, landscaping, buildings , faculty homes, cars, electric carts , land  and security.  But Our Lord is coming SOON as Dave reinvents the wheel.  It also shows most learned nothing from the Armstrong/Tkach experience with such things.
What kind people tolerate a pastor who scoffs at an ultimately will forbid research on topics or papers written and discussed when needed?  How brain dead does one have to be to never question the decisions, ideas or expenditures of the pastor?  Who never questions their boss or disagrees with a long dead religious figure?   This kind of congregation needs to invest in large group meds until they clear the fog of compliance and personal boundries.  Why would one person get all the power to decide while the majority has no say in what is said, done, imagined, spent or built with their contributions?  People are nuts.
The idea that one small, very small group of religious people are God's favorite and chosen is both repulsive and ludicrous.  People get so used to comparing themselves with the early Christians, who actually all believed many crazy and ludicrous things themselves about themselves at that time as well, Back then, THEY were going to be changed.  THEY would not all die.  THEY were the chosen nation and priesthood and people of God's own.  THEY would live to see it all come down and Jesus to return.  THEY would be protected and caught up.  THEY would see the Kingdom of God SOON.  THEY WERE WRONG...  The need to be special far overshadows the need to be correct. Of course they think they are both special AND correct and that tick won't let go.
" Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? 
Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived,
 I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...
And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...
But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
Dave's already gone somewhere and the "brethren" are either afraid to speak up , which with Dave Pack you would do well to pay attention to and there is a price to pay for, or oblivious to what is happening.  Dave offered this as a lifetime challenge to all with whom he comes into contact with in his ministerial future. In that time he has gone from just one of the minister to Apostle, Priest, Watcher and now the really real meaning of Haggai in the form of Joshua he HIGH Priest...and he ain't kidding.  It is not an analogy. 
If these aren't strange and weird ideas to the members of the Restored Church of God, what on earth would it take for you to suspect one?
Anyone besides me quoting Dave back to Dave?  
SLEEPING GRAVY THEATER: How the Three Stooges saved Star Trek with
I do wish all of us/you a very blessed 
 International Medications Not Congregations Month 
of August....
And please, Larry, Moe and Curly of three splinters, 
as David C Pack no doubt defines you as...
PLEASE take good care of yourself and we'll get through this just fine.


Anonymous said...

Dave must have come up with new rules for women.

1. If you are a RCG woman you have the right to one half of your family resources and it's hubby's tough luck. Go get it and send it in.

2. If your a mere "unconverted mate" to a male member of RCG, you have no voice woman and your half now belongs to your RCG hubby who also needs to send yours and his in.

Sure..makes perfect sense but seems proof to me that DCP was not thinking this one through and stuck his foot in his mouth.

Joe Moeller said...

Not trying to be to nasty here...

but the pic in the post of the sheep has them appearing to be standing on a pile of "crap" !

Perhaps that is an appropriate picture then , especially in regards to Flurry and Pack.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Head Usher said...

These words of Past Dave Pack need to be continually returned to the front burner, not just as a reminder to Present/Future Dave Pack, but also as a warning from Past Dave Pack to the current followers of Present/Future Dave Pack.

When Ulysses was sailing toward the area where he knew the Sirens hung out, he instructed his men to tie him to the mast. He told them that when the encountered the Siren's song, he was going to yell and scream and shout to untie him, but that under no circumstances should they obey those orders. Then he instructed his men to block their ears so that they would not be able to hear their song. Basically, Present Ulysses was making a deal with Future Ulysses, because Present Ulysses knew that Future Ulysses wasn't going to be able to control himself and was going to need Present Ulysses' help.

In psychology this has become known as a "Ulysses contract."

Basically, back in 1998, Dave made a Ulysses contract. Past Dave Pack warned us that Future Dave Pack was going to get off into some strange and weird ideas, and Future Dave Pack was going to begin to engage in some very "unscriptural conduct." Past Dave Pack told us what to do about it. Past Dave Pack told us not to listen to Future Dave Pack. Well, Future Dave Pack has arrived, as Past Dave Pack predicted. We need to take Dave Pack at his word and honor his Ulysses contract. That's what Dave Pack would want us to do.

We need to keep returning Dave Pack's Ulysses contract to the front burner. It's the only way to try to keep him tied to the mast.

Byker Bob said...

He has already come out and (quite presumptuously) told all of the ACOG brethren that if they refuse to become part of RCG they will lose the Holy Spirit. How long do you think it will take before he prophesies that the refuseniks will all go gay?

Forecast: Excessive heat warning; meltdown likely. Take steps to protect your blessings, and leave the target area if at all possible. Meltdown to be accompanied by random rabid wolf attacks! The Germans will actually take better care of you!


Anonymous said...

Dave Pack reasons "Wives, you can be independent in this.

You have 1/2 the worth of whatever you have in your house.

I'm officially telling you this...Wives, legally you have the 1/2 the funds.

What are you going to do about it?...

Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'

...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman' "

Boy, he's officially stating the law here . With this kind of logic I believe we can forget the Haggai thing..........Big oopser as far as I can tell.

Anonymous said...

In the propaganda to brethren and co-workers 2011, Dave said that he had not changed his position one bit, that Christ would return in fewer years than we have fingers on one hand (see the letter on website). That prediction will be just as much a bunch of crap as the things he is saying now. Past, present, and probably future (based on his past performance), he is a wrong man. His building plans don't indicate any concern for unutilized real estate, or does he expect Christ to use his compound as HQ on planet Earth? No. What he will do is tell his followers that he is Christ and that the world does not recognize him because it is biblical, and that the world will wage war against him. He is setting it up right now by setting this date when anyone not in his church will be without god's spirit and, therefore, not the elect few who will know Christ when he comes. Dave will say that he is Christ, it's just a matter of time. But he will say it quietly and in secret to only his group of brainwashed followers. He will never say it on TV or in public because he knows that he is lying, he is a mad man in secret but wants to be honored in public. The Akron Beacon wont report his rants from his web site; Ms. Jenkins is apparently afraid to report the whole story of the Restored Church of God cult group led by David C. Pack in Wadsworth Ohio. Is she waiting for some mass suicide?, some story that will be Colette. If folks knew what Pack has been writing about himself they might get involved with the planning commission when it comes time to use ill gotten gains to expand his compound. What a worthless piece of feces you are Dave Pack. You are a home wrecker, a con man who steals money from families, you look gaunt and rigid (like a mean monster), you are a classic sociopath. I have contacted the FBI, IRS, Ohio Atty Gen., Cleveland Plain Dealer, Akron Beacon, story hungry mainstream reporters, and others telling them about your fraud, about your Herbert Armstrong worship, about your tax exempt status and every other new development that will finally convince someone in authority to prosecute you legally. You might think that you are above human laws, but that is only in your mind Dave. You can be locked up just like your ex-buddy Ron. You are a sick man, you are abnormal, weird, your mother and father damaged you, but that was a long time ago and now you are accountable for your actions. I bet that you have never really had friends, just people who you eventually and always dominate and manipulate, who you exploit and abuse. No wonder your sons don't want to be near you. Your wife 16 years your junior is soon going to leave you (she told me so). Then you can compare yourself to Herb even more (well sort of because his child bride was 50 years younger than he was; but his pedophilia started years before when he raped his daughter Dorothy). I wont give up, Dave, until you do, or until you are in prison. You can hide it from outsiders some, but I see, hear, and read all of your lies. For sure, your days as a free man are numbered.

DennisCDiehl said...

Head Usher...that was awesome, overarching and unlike anything I have ever heard before, well maybe somewhat like 1986, but not quite given that way!!!


DennisCDiehl said...

Anon said
"Your wife 16 years your junior is soon going to leave you (she told me so)."

Yikes, I said that several years ago expecting Dave to have a Ramona experience...but yikes!

GregD said...

My father was a member of the Akron, Ohio WCG congregation when the pastors were changed and Pack was due in. I put my father on the phone to Howard Clark and Howard Clark, when he heard who was headed into town, told my Dad: "Boy are you in for it ... he's bad news bear. He's Attila the Hun!" My father took the occasion of the switch in pastors to quietly make his own exit from WCG with the least fanfare possible. Pack, newly arrived, visited my father asking him to come back; my father declined. My father didn't want any trouble, just wanted to leave quietly. Pack then lied about my father and slandered and "marked" him from the pulpit, my father, a gentle, good man who never did or intended harm to anyone. Howard Clark's forecast turned out to be 100% accurate in the reality. Dennis Diehl's columns and posts are completely right on. If you're a young person in Pack's group, please, find someone trustworthy to talk to for support--find a pastor or a rabbi out of the phone book or contact a social service agency if necessary--and run, not walk, away, and determine to make a productive, meaningful life for the life you have ahead. Greg Doudna

Head Usher said...

Thanks Dennis. I appreciate the thumbs up. I'm not clear on the 1986 reference? Did you mean 1984 or was it something to do with HWA's funeral?

Anonymous said...

1:20 pm...I have thought those things and I hope Pack does get caught with his evil doings. Some are in prison for abusing the brethren in the Amish community in Ohio, one up to 15 years.

As my RCG ex-friend put it: "In time, the fruits of it will be very clear to the whole world."

Hopefully, for the sake of the poor blind followers, the truth will be seen and that the same judge prosecutes this man. Den of robbers!

DennisCDiehl said...

Head Usher. 1986 is just a random date I pick because in the past Dave gave sermons everyone one of which started with, "I have never quite given a sermon like this one I am going to give today. I may have given one like it in June of __________ (I picked 1986 because he did once) but really not quite like this one."

Dave has to always give new stuff even if it is old. He really has odd thought forms in my view and can't seem to just live day to day as others.

Head Usher said...

I see LOL. That's a ploy to make you think what you're about to hear is special, new, and worth listening to. But it has a built-in release, because just in case you get to the end and think to yourself that it wasn't new or different, well, after he said it was new and different, he contradicted himself saying it wasn't new or different at all. Cold-readers cover their bases this way all the time.

When you think about it, all charlatan's tricks are old, but they seem to work no matter how old and obvious they might be. The credulous fall for the same tricks over and over again, long after they should know better. Charlatans like Dave Pack don't need new tricks.