Having once been a pastor for WCG and experience in 14 congregations scattered across 5 states over 26 years, I believe I know how the ministry of that organization worked. I knew many very sincere, quietly serving and believing pastors and elders. They were no different than pastors in any other denomination. You probably don't remember their names. They weren't the Dave Pack's, Ron Weinland and Gerald Flurrys of the ministry. For whatever reason, bafoons and theologically challenged salesman rose to the bottom ("the top") while those given to ministry mostly realized they made a mistake in their youth believing that the message of WCG and the Bible were one. . The drama over the heads of the average minister was unending. Personally, I suppressed my doubts, fears and observations about just how this WCG thing was all going. I had moments where I thought it would clarify and common sense would reign but someone always cancelled common sense. HWA was good at that and Joe Tkach Sr and Jr simply never heard of it. Others of you may know of other motives they may have had but all I can come up with is that they were fools.
Dave Pack is particularly a symbol to me of all that I never spoke up about. That is never going to happen again of course and the MOTIVE is to help others see and wake up. No one can make a decision on such matters for a member of any group lead by one man with no common sense and perhaps even mental challenges, but I can encourage eyes to open as do others here. I'm a firm believer in being where one is when they are there until they aren't there any longer. Waking up is a process. It does not come for everyone and others would say I am the one asleep so it's all subject to one's personal view of their story.
We are all breathlessly waiting on Dave's last, last message about Haggai and his calling as Joshua the High Priest as spoken of in that minor prophet. Of course, it is all baloney and Dave just seems to have too much time on his hands to think about himself. I suspect there is trouble in Wadsworth, but we'll see. I am sure Dave has come to the point where he simply just wants this problem he caused in his own credibility to go away. It takes a long time to reweave something to make it look like it was never full of holes. It will prove to be the single greatest public mistake Dave Pack ever made (yet) in what he considers to be his view of himself in the Wild World of God Churches.
Most of us here have read Dave's questionnaire and litmus test for returning ministers should they wish to hitch their star to the Restored Church of God. No real man much less minister , in my view, would ever answer to Dave's satisfaction any of these questions. Dave simply wishes to remodel others in his own image and that is going to take work and leaving one's soul at the door of Dave's office. Any man who who joins Restored Church as a minister is simply a yes man.
Dave Pack is particularly judgmental, mostly mental, when it comes to what he demands of others and how they "should" or "must" be. Dave is big on "should-ing"on others and quite a "must-rabator" in my view of him as I read his screeds.
Here is how he views ministers other than himself and the zombies he has already created for his ministry. From his open letter to the ministry of July 12, 2013.
"Instead, while this announcement will correct you, it will also inspire and surprise you. It includes a series of questions to consider in advance of the Haggai prophecy fulfillment. The goal is to lift you with hope for the future. Another purpose of these announcements has been to awaken in ministers a remembrance of the government of God at work in His Church. If you are reading with an open mind you will understand that what is written is, in part, an appeal designed to get your attention and return you to your true role and calling. You once firmly believed that Jesus Christ had installed you into the office you held within His unified Body. (Yet hundreds of you went on to reduce your God-ordained office to mere “elder.”) Hopefully many of you still believe as you once did."
Dave shows his contempt for "low office" in the COGs. He has never gotten over being sent to work for others back in the day when someone at least tried to tell him he was hardly the kind of man that qualified as a "helper of your joy." He is the SAME today as he was then and I was told by the man who was asked to try and help Dave out that he'd never change. Dave got "demoted" and it really rankled him. Now he can reveal this with his "mere" elder view. Notice he did not emphasise the word "mere" as in it's not really a small thing. He emphasised "elder" as meaning it really is a low office unworthy of himself. Dave is projecting his own contempt on to what the ministry out there should not want to tolerate since they used to have "higher" offices. Lame.. "He that is greatest among you, let him be your servant..."
"Tragically, some will make the wrong decision and lose eternal life. Consider carefully your actions. Your record is being written. Judgment is now on the house of God (I Pet. 4:17). You know human beings. You know they will broadcast what happened in your pastorate. (Future announcements will explain EXACTLY what God says will happen to everyone who does not come—one of three things, none good.)
What kind of of BS is this? Dave decides what a wrong decision is and the consequences of it all for that person. Words of a fool. Dave Pack has not had the best track record of late in explaining anything "EXACTLY" so I'd not worry about the three none good things in store for such losers. I can think of a few more than three things, none good, in store for Dave Pack as this railroad he is building rolls on.
Here's a few points from his litmus test for RCG ministry Zombies to be that are particularly offensive and ill informed.
(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition
- In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—be specific.)
(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry?—or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)
I don't think I ever gave a safe sermon. That came later when the Tkaches turned sermon giving into ridiculous double talk. You haven't lived until you had to be told Hank Hanagraaf , the Bible Answer Man, was someone you should look to. Personally, during those days, I read books on topics the WCG never addressed. For the past few years you here at BannedHWA have been subjected mercilessly to those results. Your results may vary...
6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?
- Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?
- Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters?
This is pure Dave Pack WCG/Global resentment bubbling up in his demands on ministry. Re-winning the trust of the Brethren but in particular of Dave Pack sounds like something out of WWII.
"Are you prepared to re-win the trust of the SS and of Berlin?" Personally I'd not want to be trusted by Dave because it would mean I was dead inside.
(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization?
No sorry, can't do that one. Certainly not RCG
(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?
Totally screwed up and not really an issue.
(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?
No, you weren't so why should I have to put up with that? Goose and Gander stuff here. What? You think I want to be a mere Elder!!!???
(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you requalify?
After your recent flub ups and misreading of Haggai, are you?
(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true
I'll show you my "Pastor Credentials" if you show me your "Watcher", "Apostle," "Joshua the High Priest" ones... I want to see signatures and seals of approval.
(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:
- Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
- What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
- What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
- Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
- Where you disagree doctrinally?
(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):
- Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
- Easily deceived
- Betrayed your calling
(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?
I didn't or I'd not be writing this....
(22) What do you consider to be your ministerial rank?
Genuine Human Being (Dave has always loved numbers and ranks)
(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely
the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?
You first Dave...they don't call much of your ministry "the trail of tears" for nothing.
(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?
Probably not and it would be you if I did.
(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)
Deeply spiritual and non-religious. 98.6
(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)
1. Organized Religion is an Oxymoron 2. Rank is an odor 3. Clowns rise to the top 4. The Bible has problems with it 5. You're a hoot
(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave, how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?
I would lie and act all emotional, cry, beat my chest, whine, beg and try to perceive what you needed to see from me to fool you into thinking I wasn't "Joshin'" ya.
(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learn new?
Will I get paid? Otherwise, no. I have a difficult time sitting still in lame lectures.
(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led?—or were ever Spirit-led?
Raise the dead? Heal the man with one arm? Hear the voice of Jesus in my head telling me you are to be obeyed? Whatever works I guess. Tell you that you are awesome? "But I tell you brethren, I'm going nowhere" with Dave Pack.
(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?
Laughed and thought to myself what kind of a fool would come up with this stuff... I'm not a fan of that "soon" stuff. What did you do Dave after God's people kinda didn't show up? Just askin'
Anyway, stay tuned for Dave's final wrap up of the awesome and amazing prophecy/parallel of Haggai in which God, for 3000 years really, was preparing the world for David C Pack...