Tuesday, July 14, 2015

Grace Communion International Screws Over Former Employees Yet Again

This was just sent to me by a former WCG/GCI employee.

I just received notice that the money I was getting for my retirement was cut yet again!  This cut only applies to non ordained former employees.  This is the second time we have been cut in what we had been originally promised.  Former ministers and a few select others will maintain their original amounts that they get paid.  I guess I should count my self lucky I'm getting anything from them at all considering how they screwed so many ministers and employees over in the last few years of its existence as the Worldwide Church of God.

I was one of those that was sitting in the Student Center for an employee meeting where Bernie Schnippert stood up in front of all of us and said if we stuck by them through the changes and held on that we would get a "double" amount.  That proved to be a lie as did most other things that came out of their mouths.  We did get it double though...double cuts!

One man who took his severance package letter to an attorney for an opinion on what to do was told by the attorney, "This is a church?  They treat you this way and say they are Christians?" That says a lot about the WCG/GCI when someone from the "world" sees right through them.

Its lipstick and pearls on a washed up pig that still wallows in the mire.
Thanks to how I was treated by the church I will NEVER set foot in another church again as along as I live!  Bastards!


Anonymous said...

“Its lipstick and pearls on a washed up pig that still wallows in the mire.”

“Thanks to how I was treated by the church I will NEVER set foot in another church again as along as I live! Bastards!”

Thanks for the report. And, oh, boo-hoo-hoo.

The little tithe-paying sheeple on the giving end of things are getting tired of you people on the getting end who were just there for the money, and who went along with the abominable doctrinal changes for the money, and who now whine when they do not get quite as much money as they had hoped to get for their betrayal of the WCG and their sinning for GCI. Hopefully, you will keep your own word now and will never set foot in another church ever again, but somehow I suspect that if the money is there, or even just pretends to be there, you will be there too.

Some old fiction stories spread the ridiculous notion that people can make a deal with the Devil and that the Devil will be scrupulously honest about keeping his word and his part of the bargain, but that the person can later go to someone even worse than the Devil--someone like a lawyer (Yuck!)---and get out of keeping his part of the bargain. Of course, that really is just fiction. In real life, the Devil is the author of lies, contract breaking, not paying workers, and being willing to go along with anything for the money.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Just remember, this is the true legacy of Herbert Armstrong.

Connie Schmidt said...

So when is Joe Jr. going to put himself up for election and quit running WCG/GCI like the Pope?

He said well over a decade ago that he would resign and allow for a true democratic organization.

He also once declared that there would be church buildings, mega centers, to be built from all the money that was generated from the sale of assets.

The Tkaches sold everything imaginable, and this was in the range of at least $200 Million. Using an actuarial payout of 5% a year, then there should be available $10 Million per year in perpetuity, with the ability to adjust for inflation. The expense of local congregations has been transferred 100% to those local congregations. So the big question is... what happened or is happening with all of the money??

Anonymous said...

Aren't agreements between two parties -- verbal or written -- binding? Might be worth pursuing legally.

Anonymous said...

10:40, stuff your "abominable doctrinal changes" crap. In case you didn't notice, this blog is about exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism, not kneeling at the altar of the Incestuous One.

There were plenty of custodians, landscapers, clerical workers and more -- many of whom were never members of the church at all, all of whom certainly never got rich off of it -- who were promised retirement consideration. They worked hard and aren't whining, so stick it. They should received what they were promised.

Byker Bob said...

You know, I had a customer tell me today that the main reason he trusted me was that he knew it was my character to make business decisions based on moral principles as opposed to soley financial ones. And, the truth is, you can earn good money through that methodology, because before the '80s, that is the way business used to be done, and we all did just fine.

Some of these people who are being hurt by the administrators of Grace Communion are probably some past friends or aquaintances of mine with whom I lost contact over the years, and I feel very badly for them. It is appalling that cold hearted accountants would be running a church organization that professes to exemplify the love of Christ. running roughshod over people who liteally have no recourse, "just because they can." This is just my opinion, but I feel that such a church will reap what they sow. God will bless them in proportion to how they treat their own little defenseless ones. There are community churches that started in 1995 in high school gyms that are huge today. GCI, in spite of a head start, isn't one of them.


Anonymous said...

The original quote from the lawyer who looked at the severance/no retirement papers after decades in WCG said:

"This is a church? You are fucked. You better sign before you get nothing"

These "theologians" are merely spiritual thugs and Wiseguys.

After selling the entire campus, Ron Kelly said "We don't have any money since Jesus worked a miracle in the church." Evidently Ron's Jesus was and is incapable of sticking to His original inspiring story and truth and it may be better to change the scripture to read "Jesus Christ, confused yesterday, today and probably tomorrow too."

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

“10:40, stuff your 'abominable doctrinal changes' crap. In case you didn't notice, this blog is about exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism, not kneeling at the altar of the Incestuous One.”

Oh! Oops! Sort of forgot about that lately. Was kinda wondering what those of your ilk were doing here yet.

What is wrong with exposing the underbelly of Tkachism too? Why does everything always have to be all about money with those of you who worship at the altar of the Apostate One? I just gave and gave and gave and never got paid, other than paid back with evil for my good. While it might have appeared at the time that we were all on the same WCG ship heading for the same destination, maybe I was in an entirely different class than you rabble from below in the steerage section.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to provide the feedback, even though it was not very helpful, and in the future you should probably stop wasting everyone's time with your shockingly rude and nasty comments toward those of us who were pure, sweet, innocent, and not at fault.

Byker Bob said...

10:40 forgets several poignant facts. First, this wasn't a good guys versus the bad guys situation, in which either the reformers or the preservers actually filled those different restrictive roles. That is an oversimplification. Neither were the leavers or stayers the definers of right and wrong. There were some loyal long term employees who either never paid into the Social Security Administration, or paid vastly insufficient amounts for meaningful retirement because they believed in an endtimes doctrine which could never be fulfilled. Over the years, they either partially offset their tithes with the moneys not paid into F.I.C.A. just so they and their families could subsist, or contributed them as well to the church to get "the work" done.

Naive or not, some of them privately practiced the original doctrines at home, while continuing to attend the body which they believed to be the true church, expecting correction for that body from God. In attempting to deal with situations they never had envisioned, and thinking that those involved in making those decisions were guided by Godly principles, rather than Accounting 101, just about everybody "got screwed" in one way or other, some just got it worse. This was a time not for Lone Rangers to take on the aftermath of an inherently corrupt system, one had to be part of one of the collective groups to survive. Some were not. New wine was corrupted by the old wineskins of the people who had been tainted for decades by HWA's original managerial style. I am so glad that I had started a new life twenty years earlier following the disappointment of 1975, and only learned of all the shenanigans vicariously through the internet, starting in the early 2,000s. What I read on the web seemed to rival what brothers and sisters were doing to one another during the Helenistic times of the Macabbees.

Most people who comment tend to do so from partisan positions. The fact is, there were many shades of gray in what degenerated into a complex mess that shook up nearly everyone's lives, and resulted in many gut-wrenching decisions, most of which proved not to be right.. This is precisely the same rat cage that all false teachers leave in their aftermath. HWA won, and died. Everyone else involved, to one degree or another, was his victim.


Anonymous said...

How could any of you follow these LIARS ?, Bernie the the biggest of all under Tkach. They have not taught the truth! {I am sure you knew that when you re-signed your employment contracts)they were only after the money, thieving from Brethren those who gave faithfully.. Guess they will face the "LAKE OF FIRE", "ETERNAL DEATH". I certainly would not shed a tear, what ever unfortunate circumstances they may find themselves in. These "theologians" are merely spiritual thugs and Wiseguys. (This guy has them summed up well). I do feel sorry for those who followed GCI, you certainly have been "DECIEVED" & LIED TO, over and over again. THEY ARE CERTAINLY NOT GOD'S CHURCH, THEY BELONG TO SATAN.

Ed said...

The only way to avoid being screwed by organized religion is to not belong to any organized religion. Screwing people is just what they do. They manipulate people by using guilt to fill the seats in their churches and then they manipulate using guilt to make the people tithe slaves.

Anonymous said...

Interesting thread, especially with the HWA crowd weighing in.

Deviating from Armstrongism is not apostasy. It's common sense.

When someone leaves Armstrongism behind, it does not automatically follow that they support Tkach.

As 7:41 said, people who were promised a retirement should be able to expect it. Whether they supported Armstrong, or Tkach, or neither, has nothing to do with it.

Anonymous said...

Screwing people is what they do, you say? I agree and it is not just in the C of G.
Local mainstream churches are also corrupt, with denominational leadership protecting the pastors even if they are "wolves" and hurt the sheep.
Has the church ever needed another reformation more than now?

Anonymous said...

“Guess they [the Tkaches and their accomplices] will face the 'LAKE OF FIRE', 'ETERNAL DEATH'.”


While I can certainly judge and condemn the obviously wrong behavior of the Tkaches and their wicked accomplices like Burned Out Snippy, Feesell the Wesell, and Gerald Flurry, I have no ability or power to sentence them to the lake of fire or eternal death. Lucky for them that I cannot do that, or even that I don't have a rocket launcher....

If the Tkaches and their accomplices had their chance in this life, they would appear to have blown it. If they did once have the Holy Spirit but lost it while chasing after money, they are in big trouble. Instead of merely being asses, they will become ashes. Asses to ashes, as this new saying goes.


According to HWA's teachings, it is possible that the Tkaches and their accomplices were never truly converted in this lifetime, never had the Holy Spirit, and were used by Satan to capture and destroy the organized, incorporated structure that the spiritual organism known as the Worldwide Church of God had used to accomplish the great commission of preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God to the entire world and to proclaim the Ezekiel warning message that nations like the United States and Britain would be punished for their sins if they did not repent.

God allowed everything in the WCG to happen for His own purposes. He had all power to do whatever He wanted to. By the time of the great falling away in 1995, there were a lot of bad people in the WCG. In the World to Come, maybe the Tkaches and their accomplices will finally be called by God, finally receive the Holy Spirit, finally get their first real chance at salvation, and think back about what they had done in this life and be totally appalled by it and cringe with shame when they think about their greedy, ignorant, and sinful behavior in this lifetime. In this scenario, cognitive dissonance (whatever that is) will consume poor Joey, Jr., and seized with remorse he will wish that he had never heard of such silly words.

Other guilty accomplices to the lying, stealing, and destroying--like Gerald Flurry, for example--might never have received the Holy Spirit either in this life. He might have had only the sort of spirits that come in beer bottles, followed into him by evil spirits from the dark side. In this scenario, when little Gerald finally sobers up in the World to Come from his spiritually drunken state, and thinks back on how he helped Satan to torture and destroy former WCG people in the name of HWA and God, he will feel even sicker and vomit even more than he ever did from all his days and nights of guzzling beer in this lifetime.


Or, maybe the Tkaches' and their accomplices' lifelong hatred of God's good ways, and their insatiable love of money above all else, will be so ingrained that they will be unable to repent even when finally called and offered the Holy Spirit, and they will hit the lake of fire, unable to take their money with them, and unable to be saved by their stolen money. Maybe they will selfishly try to take some money with them, and get good cash burned up along with themselves, when it could have been left behind and used to help the poor.

Maybe accomplices to the church destruction--like Gerald Flurry, for example--will refuse to return stolen titles like “That Prophet” to Jesus, and will have to go bye-bye. For sure, he will have to overcome his lying and stealing at some point, or he will be cut off from everything.

Anonymous said...

Good Lord, 10:55 -- you not only have no ability or power to sentence people to the lake of fire or eternal death, you apparently have no discernment, either.

Really? 500 words or so, using tired cliches like the "great falling away," implying that a church founded by a sexual deviant somehow preached a "great commission," alleging the Tkaches had/have a "lifelong hatred of God's good ways," blah, blah, blah. Ever had an original thought?

Wait -- you answered that with your arcane "World to Come" reference, thereby identifying you as a disciple of either Dave Pack or Art Braidic. Either way, you're just being silly, and would be well advised to move on. Lift your eyes. Expand your thinking. Consider new viewpoints. It is indeed a relief to be freed from such nuttiness -- which, by the way, really doesn't fly on this blog.

Anonymous said...


I knew both Joe Tkach Jr. and Jill, his first wife, in a personal way [because my wife and I spent considerable time traveling with them on church business].... It certainly came as no surprise when we were apprised of Jill divorcing this "Hitler"! Certainly I could not blame her for such overdue action. I say this not from hearsay, second-hand scuttlebutt, or rumor, but because my wife (who still clings to the cult) and I witnessed his outrages first hand.

On one occasion, Mr. T. invited my wife and I to ride along on their trip to Prescott, Arizona where he was to give a Sabbath sermon. Jill was driving while Mr. T. Jr. was in the back seat preparing his sermon. Jill missed the turn-off to Prescott from the Phoenix to Flagstaff freeway. She had driven about 10 miles past the turn-off when we realized that she had gone by the Prescott exit. Mr. T. Jr. blew his top, to say the least! He cussed and swore at Jill from that point, 10 miles past the turn-off all the way to Prescott, about 60 miles from the freeway as I recall. He called her every vulgar name in the book: "an S.O.B.," "a stupid imbecile," "a F---ing bitch,"; and he said "God D--- you!"- except he said whole words, not just the starting letters. He just kept screaming the epithets at her. While he continued to scream out those deplorable rantings and ravings, I wondered if I should tell him to shut up. But I knew that if I did I would be disfellowshipped on the spot. After searching for years to find what I most ignorantly assumed to be "God's One True Church," and being taught never to question, much less upbraid, one of "God's ministers," I bit my tongue and felt embarrassed that a fellow human being would react so disgustingly to such a trivial mistake.

It's interesting that the moment we pulled into the church parking lot, Mr. T. Jr.'s personality did a 180 degree somersault. He smiled and greeted the deacons in the parking lot, apologized for being late, gave his sermon, and acted as though none of the turmoil in the car had ever happened. Mind you, he had carried on in the car ranting and raving for over one hour straight! Jill was left in tears by his tongue lashing. I remember thinking at the time - if he would mistreat his wife so horribly in our presence, how far would he go in brutalizing her in private?

Some time previous to the above incident, we were visiting his home when my wife asked him a question about [erotic] fantasies. He told her that fantasizing was perfectly normal, that he himself did this, and that he even encouraged his wife to fantasize about other men!87

I recall he said that he hated his Dad and that his father was a "little dictator" who had never shown him any love. The picture he painted of his father was nothing like the picture painted of Mr. T. Sr. in the Worldwide News where he is supposedly a family man who loves children. However, the description given by Mr. T. Sr. in the 7/17/89 WN of people in the WCG jockeying for position does fit perfectly my recollection of Mr. T. Jr. When Mr. T. Sr. became transformed from being a "little dictator" - as his son had described him - into being a "big dictator," he dangled a one-quarter to one-half million dollar carrot in front of his son's nose. That is what caused Mr. T. Jr. to want to gravitate to Pasadena in 1986. At his going away party, he told my wife that he had really changed. Well, I have to wonder. Someone who has, doesn't have to boast about it.


A considerable amount of evidence accumulated by AR indicates Junior has really not changed at all, but has only gotten better at concealing his leopard spots.88 Tkach Sr., however, doesn't seem to mind.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

“Good Lord, 10:55 --”

No need to call me that. I am much too humble and modest to accept your flattery and those fancy titles that you would like to give me.

Anonymous said...

“As 7:41 said, people who were promised a retirement should be able to expect it. Whether they supported Armstrong, or Tkach, or neither, has nothing to do with it.”

Different people went to the WCG for different reasons. Some went for the religion, and some went for the money. To those who went for the money, it did not matter who was leading the church, or what the church taught, or who signed their paychecks. They were there for the money.

It is easy to trust in a paycheck rather than to trust in God.

Now, some people who have been collecting a paycheck for the past 20 years since the Tkaches ruined the place in 1995 are suddenly concerned that they might run out of someone, somewhere, sometime to sign a paycheck for them. Suddenly fearfulness has surprised the money-grubbing hypocrites.

Homer said...

I remember well, one such person who was a "minister" being asked, as many were back in '95, "What are you going to do?" His (paraphrased) reply, "I need the job, I'm staying with WCG." I also know of those who did not make the move away from WCG until they knew they has a job elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Who is "Burned Out Snippy"?

Is Snippy a friend of Keith Richards and on the latest Rolling Stones tour?

Was Snippy on the Stones' "Their Satanic Majesties Request" album, and was Snippy the ghost player on the Stones'Gimme Shelter hit?

PS: I have no sympathy for the devil, .... but apparently youtube does!
Like, here.

Anonymous said...

I still remember being told something interesting years ago by an older man who had left the Worldwide Church of God to go with the Global Church of God. He said that the ordinary little church members had always been expected to have faith and to be willing to lose their jobs over the Sabbath. He said it was only fair that the WCG ministers should also be tested on this same point.

It was a memorable comment since up to that point I had always just sort of assumed that the WCG ministers had been tested already and had passed the test when they chose to go to Ambassador College and become ministers in the WCG rather than choosing to go elsewhere and becoming Sunday-keeping ministers. It turned out that there can be tests throughout life, and that they can be much harder than expected--especially for those who lack faith, without which it is impossible to please God.

This whole matter reminds me of the story that Herbert W. Armstrong told in his Autobiography about a “minister” who was unemployed and looking for a job--and who was willing to teach whatever any church wanted him to teach for the paycheck.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

“10:40, stuff your 'abominable doctrinal changes' crap. In case you didn't notice, this blog is about exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism, not kneeling at the altar of the Incestuous One.”

Oops! Let me fix that.


Exposing the underbelly of Tkachism in all its lack of glory.

From Ambassador Report at http://www.hwarmstrong.com/ar/index.htm

AR 49, November 1991, at http://www.hwarmstrong.com/ar/AR49.html

Joe Tkach Jr.

After Joe Tkach Sr., the most visible WCG figure is Joe Tkach Jr. Although less visible than his father in WCG publications, Junior is actually running much of the WCG.84 As one WCG insider revealed to AR: "Basically, right now, Joe Tkach Jr. and Michael Feazell are running the church. Mr. Tkach Sr. trusts no one else!"

Junior's official title is Director of Church Administration U.S.A.85 Those who remember him as a student at the WCG's Imperial School in Pasadena during the late 1960s and then at Ambasssador College from which he was graduated in 1973, say he was not a brilliant student. Indeed, some classmates considered him "a goof ball."

After graduation he was a ministerial trainee in California, Indiana, and Arizona. Ordained in 1976, he was also cut from the WCG payroll that same year. Between 1976 and 1986, Junior took a few extension classes in psychology from Arizona State University, worked as a social service worker, earned an MBA from the small Western International University in Phoenix, and then worked for Intel Corp. for a couple of years. Since being lured back to employment in the WCG, his father has had him raised to evangelist rank.

Divorced from his first wife, Jill, in 1978,86 Junior remarried in 1980. Those familiar with Junior's first marriage say it was a tumultuous relationship. Friends of Jill say Junior was an habitual wife beater and Jill, now a born-again Christian, has told friends that Tkach Sr., himself, even struck her on two occasions. The following letter from a former member of Junior's Arizona flock reveals something of Junior's character and personality:


I knew both Joe Tkach Jr. and Jill, his first wife, in a personal way [because my wife and I spent considerable time traveling with them on church business].... It certainly came as no surprise when we were apprised of Jill divorcing this "Hitler"! Certainly I could not blame her for such overdue action. I say this not from hearsay, second-hand scuttlebutt, or rumor, but because my wife (who still clings to the cult) and I witnessed his outrages first hand.

CONTINUED BELOW (or maybe above?)

Anonymous said...

Who is the thread crasher who equates rejecting HWA with adoring Joe Tkach? Somebody needs to get their head out of the COG sandbox. What a laughable assumption THAT is.

Anonymous said...

No worries, 8:20, you no doubt attend a church where leaders take titles for themselves.

Anonymous said...

There is an interesting thing going on here.

We have a poster who is attempting to praise Herbert Armstrong while turning the tables and trashing Joe Tkach. The recent "Banned by JWT" post above is an example, along with its Flurry-esque use of the term Tkachism.

Except, the poster then cuts and pastes old Ambassador Report material about Joe Jr. Why, is a mystery, since most people who visit here no doubt read all of that years ago. At the same time, it exhibits a familiarity with Ambassador Watch. Which begs the question:

If you've read back issues of Ambassador Report, why on earth would you still be following Herbert Armstrong?

Anonymous said...

The cartoon at the top explains that if you “work hard, with diligence, integrity, honesty...you shall be rewarded.”

The sneaky, deceitful, money-hungry hirelings now in GCI failed to “work hard, with diligence, integrity, honesty....”

Instead, as the cartoon illustrates so graphically, they screwed the little people.