Sunday, November 1, 2015

Living Church of God: Is Rod Meredith a Closet Pagan?

From an LCG source:

LCG has just wrapped up preaching about the evils of Halloween and will no doubt soon begin to preach the evils of Christmas. They will likely wax on about how God says not to worship Him like the heathen worship their gods. Then they will expound on the Two Babylons and how the Catholic Church is the Great Whore and all its branches are equally evil and full of deception. 

All this from the stage of the Charlotte Scottish Rite Temple.

Scottish Rite by definition means “House of the Temple”. Official rank titles in this high order Masonic organization include: Knight of the Sun, Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret, Master of Mercy and Prince of Jerusalem.

Albert Pike, a famous Mason who obtained the rank of Sovereign Grand Commander for a total of thirty-two years, devoted a large amount of his time to developing the Masonic rituals. Notably, he published a book called Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in 1871. In it Pike refers to Lucifer as, “the Light-bearer[p. 321]. The goal of all Masons is to “seek the light” from the time of their initiation.
According to Albert Pike, Freemasons portray the Holy Spirit with the satanic symbol known as the Baphomet. The Baphomet is one of the most evil of all symbols.  This “being” is androgynous and has the head of a "Horned Goat," (another title for Satan). It has the breasts of a woman, and an erect phallus that has two serpents coiled around it. Just the type of thing an ACOG member wants their young children exposed to on the Sabbath!

Freemasonry is the embodiment of everything that LCG claims they are against. The worship that goes on in that temple when LCG isn’t there is a mixture of idolatry, paganism, the occult, Gnosticism and Satanism.

Masons do not worship the God of Abraham, but rather a false god that they call The Great Architect. Masons deliberately omit the holy name of Jesus Christ from all their prayers. Masonry is a secret society and its initiates subscribe to secret blood oaths that are contrary to Christian morals.
Even the ACOG’s so called “deceived” Baptist and Catholic churches strongly recognize that Christians should have nothing to do with Masons.  Pope Clement XII referred to Masonic halls as “Satan’s synagogue”. The Catholic Church has prohibited its members from being Freemasons since 1738. Since then, the Vatican has issued several papal bulls banning membership of Catholics from Freemasonry under threat of excommunication. Currently, as reiterated in 1983, Catholics who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion [source].

I have attended with LCG in the Scottish Rite Temple and I can confirm that the building is FILLED with imagery and symbols that are the exact type of thing LCG claims to despise.
Members have pointed out all of the above information repeatedly to those in power at LCG headquarters but the building is affordable and comfortable so Meredith overlooks all the scriptures in his Bible that specifically say not to worship the Almighty from Pagan temples (Deut 12:2, Exodus 23:24, Exodus 34:13, Psalm 78:58,  Deuteronomy 7:5, 2 Chronicles 31:1, 2 Kings 18: 4, 1 Cornithians 10:20). Instead of “destroying the alter and pillars” LCG pays to use them each week.

In true Meredith form, we are to do as he says, not as he does.

Many members and ministers (even Counsel of Elders members) have expressed their concerns with the hall. I have personally talked to LCG COE members and congregation members who believe their meeting hall is infested with demons. LCG minister Davey Crockett wrote an article in which he states,
God chooses how He is to be worshiped, and using the methods, symbols, and practices of false, pagan religions to worship Him is not acceptable. In fact, He considers it an abomination. Over and over God instructed His people to remove these symbols of paganism. For example, “But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images, and burn their carved images with fire” (Deuteronomy 7:5). Some will say, “But it’s a beautiful tradition!” Jesus let the people of His day know that traditions based on ungodly practices are not acceptable. “He answered and said to them, ‘Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?’” (Matthew 15:3). Beautiful buildings of fine quality in which to worship God are certainly an enjoyable blessing, but they are not a necessity [Forgotten Symbols by J. Davy Crockett III].

Most in LCG would NEVER meet in a Catholic church and they get all buggy regarding hearts and crosses but they are perfectly fine with the Masonic Temple!

Meredith is king and what he says goes. Few have the courage or conviction to stand against him because they know that, like a vicious cobra, he will strike down anyone who dares to oppose him.

The point of this article is not to condemn or judge Masons but rather to point out the extreme hypocrisy in the Living Church of God and all its judgmental members who sit in a Pagan temple every Sabbath pretending to please the Almighty in worship.

Yet more proof that LCG cannot possibly be God’s true church. 

"Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." -1st Corinthians 10:21


Anonymous said...

I never understood how the church would always complaining about pagans around them and then head out every Saturday to spend several hours in Masonic Lodges, Odd Fellows Halls, and movie theaters that displayed porn. The church would scream bloody murder if there was a Christmas tree somewhere on the property, yet had no problem meeting in these dens of paganism. Nothing like spending a church service with the "all seeing eye" staring at you for 2 hours straight.

Black Ops Mikey said...

You know, there's a solution to this problem: The Armstrongist churches can all start building their own church facilities.

Problem solved.

Of course, the leaders wouldn't have as much money for themselves in the cult, but the church would have a more solid presence in the community.

That's what the CoG7D has done and they have 300,000+ members world wide.

DennisCDiehl said...

There have always been two schools of thought in the NT church as portrayed in the Bible.

The Jewish Christian arm of the church as represented by James.

Acts 15:20
Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

And the more Gnostic Pauline view.

I Cor 8:4-

4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father.....

7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating[a] in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged,[b] if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?

Here, at least with foods associated with pagan idols, temples and rituals, Paul finds those offended weak and it all is a tempest in a tea pot Unlike Jewish James who defines a gentile wanting to become a Christian by abiding by the Noahide laws that gentiles were to obey to become Jews without circumcision etc...Paul thinks the problem is in an immature mind and thinking on the part of the fearful who think they will get spiritual cooties and infestations from such associations

James: "Avoid meats that are tainted by idol worship."

Paul: "Well, I know what I was told to tell you guys by James, but don't worry about it"

Byker Bob said...

It is certainly a visually beautiful hall, but the artwork and symbols are deeply troubling. It amazes me that LCG is capable of overlooking those factors, considering them inconsequential, but apply a completely different standard to joining in on national holidays because of somewhat less offensive paganism. Would not most reasonable believers, if they knew what they were seeing, consider the Masonic depiction of God the Holy Spirit as being blasphemous? Christmas and Easter do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

This is some really mind-boggling information. Would the Holy Spirit be present in a setting in which He is blasphemed? Expecting that to be true makes no sense at all.


Retired Prof said...

It's probably okay to use whatever it takes to nudge people into leaving LCG and taking command of their own lives. Really, though, exploiting the fear that sitting in the presence of symbols will imperil one's eternal life is just silly.

We corrupt our integrity by our words and actions, not by by sitting in the same room with symbols used by groups whose values are alien to ours. Idols don't give off undetectable Satanic parasites. Or viruses. Or bacteria. That's magical thinking. Unless the objects and images can be shown to exude actual physical infectious agents, we can safely ignore them.

I am reluctant to say anything at all positive about Rod Meredith and his LCG. In this case, though, I've got to give them a pass.

DennisCDiehl said...

Obviously "AM" and "PM" services are in order. One at the Lodge for the "mature" gentiles and one next door at the Woodsmen of America Hall for the "weak" Jewish Christians.

Anonymous said...

Mr Armstrong always spoke truth. So when he said you are "not getting it" members should have taken that to heart. So the church was the single biggest sponsor of the freemasons by paying for a lot of halls. As the church was the single biggest sponsor of the european pirate stations bringing american culture and pop music to the continent. Some of these pirate ships were cia sponsored as in the caribean region. Getting part of the "bigger picture." Aren't you stricken by the colors Red, yellow and purple of the mason hall and the interior of ambassador auditorium. You all are not getting it as long as you start looking at the church as a church. It was a cia directed social experiment during the cold war and ended exactly at the end of the cold war.

Anonymous said...

So my point is that the church was the single largest private sponsor of the revolutionary movement of its time. The global american empire that will be succeeded by the global empire of the corporates and indeed all nations states will be subject to the corporates. One of the first moves of this revolutionary movement was the deposition of allende in chili a cia coup for the chicago school of economics as bragged about by hwa that everytime he moved a government was toppled hwa was the mercurius or messenger of the gods that rule this world. And he himself probably didn t even know that he was recruited.

Anonymous said...

"Pike refers to Lucifer...Freemasons portray the Holy Spirit with the satanic symbol known as the Baphomet...The Baphomet is one of the most evil of all symbols. This 'being' is androgynous and has the head of a 'Horned Goat,' (another title for Satan)....Masons do not worship the God of Abraham, but rather a false god that they call The Great Architect."

If the LCG source reads this, well, I hate to break it to ya, but anybody who actually worships "Lucifer" or "Satan" is still paying homage to and operating within the same Judeo-Christian worldview. If they do worship "Satan," which I'm not convinced they do, they're still worshiping within the Judeo-Christian pantheon, and are in fact still worshiping at least one of the gods of Abraham. It should also be noted that to be an observant Jew or Kabbalist, or indeed to be a Muslim is also to worship among the various gods of Abraham.

Now, if you went and worshiped the Hindu Ganesha or the traditional Chinese Shang-Di, then you could argue you were actually worshiping at the feet of a different god/pantheon.

"The worship that goes on in that temple when LCG isn’t there is a mixture of idolatry, paganism, the occult, Gnosticism and Satanism."

"Pagan" is merely a pejoritive invented by Christianity. It's really a meaningless aphorism, since Judaism and Christianity are both entirely derived from previous religious beliefs, symbols, traditions, and rituals that would later be labeled "pagan." Christianity is therefore just as "pagan" as any other religion that's ever existed. Worshiping the cult figure of Jesus is just as idolatrous as worshiping any other cult figure that's ever been venerated. The Greek canon is a set of texts that are highly influenced by Hermeticism, Jewish mysticism, Platonic philosophy and gnosticism, and Satan is a product of the Judeo-Christian religion, meaning that the "occult," while it has been influenced by many religions and traditions, owes it's invention and current incarnations as much to Christianity as any other source.
Therefore, the worship that goes on in that temple when LCG is there is also a mixture of idolatry, paganism, the occult, Gnosticism and Satanism.

"Masonry is a secret society and its initiates subscribe to secret blood oaths that are contrary to Christian morals."

1st century Christianity was just as much a "secret society" as Freemasonry and modern-day "Christian" morals are not really Christian at all, but derived from centuries of secular political thought and philosophy. Modern Christian morals are contrary to 1st-century Christian morals.

Anonymous said...

I never felt very spiritual meeting in a beer-scented, grimy VFW hall and sitting for hours on cheap metal folding chairs.

Anonymous said...

Retired Prof you have missed the point.

The point isn't that sitting in the same room with symbols is going to be infectious or "catching".

The point is that LCG sits in condemnation of all things Pagan while paying to have weekly Sabbath services in a Temple wrought with Paganism. They write dozens of articles and give sermon after sermon about avoiding Pagan practices and about how they are the only church that truly keeps the "whole Bible" while clearly ignoring all of the scripture outlined in the article just because it suits them.

Once again, LCG picks and chooses which scriptures apply to them and which don't.

Anonymous said...

I have a friend who voiced her opinion about the Scottish rite temple and was then put out of the church for the ever popular and extremely overused "causing division".

Anonymous said...

Maybe it's the demonic influences in that hall that have infiltrated the minds of Rod Meredith and Rod McNair. They seem to have become increasing evil since HQs moved services into that building. It would certainly explain why Bible study is now forbidden. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Retired Prof,

This article isn't "exploiting the fear that sitting in the presence of symbols will imperil one's eternal life".

The point of this article as stated earlier is to point out the extreme hypocrisy of Roderick C. Meredith and the LCG and all its judgmental members who claim to despise imagery that is idolatrous, and rooted in paganism, the occult, Gnosticism and Satanism. The building LCG Charlotte meets in (as well as other buildings throughout the US) is FILLED with the imagery and symbols that LCG claims to despise, but they continue to sit in these buildings every Sabbath, ignoring the commandments of the Old Testament that they claim to hold so strongly to, while pretending to please the LORD Almighty God in worship.

NO PASS can be given for this blantant display of hypocrisy!

Jesus Christ said the following in Mark 7:6-9
And He said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,

“‘This people honors Me with their lips,but their heart is far from Me;in vain do they worship Me,teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”

And He said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!

Anonymous said...

The article quotes Davey Crockett - Davey Crockett who would have (and did have) the LCG headquarters congregation meet in a protestant "worldly" "pagan" church, make statements alluding to God's intervention in choosing such a place, and chide those among the congregation who felt uncomfortable meeting in such a place. If you ask me, they are all hypocrites. Quite frankly, if all of the people would refuse to attend church when the leaders selected such a place, wouldn't the leaders be forced to find another location for church services? Oh, but wait, didn't some people get thrown out of this toxic organization for doing just that?

Anonymous said...

For decades all I heard from the church and Meredith was to "avoid the appearance of evil". Yet the church held see I services in these kind of halls filled with nonChristian symbolism. From the moment Meredith lied that he never was the cause of Terry Ratzman's murder spree the LCG has been in a downward spiral. Meredith and his henchmen are evil to the core.

Anonymous said...

My father's side of my family is very Catholic. When my dear aunt passed away I went to her funeral, obviously in a Catholic church. While I was talking to a friend of mine at services my elder walked up and interrupted us and announced to us that no LCG member belongs in a Catholic church with all of it's paganism around. I said the Charlotte congregation meets every week in a Masonic hall with all of it's paganism around. What's the difference? He said that's different, it was approved by headquarters.

Anonymous said...

Not ever did Mr Armstrong contradict American Foreign Policy. As a matter of fact he only visited strategic countries. Even insignificant Nepal has a huge US Embassy as it is seated between the Indian and Chinese superpowers. Just pay a visit to Washington DC and you know where the leader of the church Stanley Rader really reported to. See Washington DC and discussion on why WCG was sponsoring international masonry by renting their halls providing a huge source of income for this organisation becomes laughable because DC is one complete masonic temple. Of course Japanese intelligence was interested in the central tenets of a messenger proclaiming world dominance.

Retired Prof said...

Okay, okay, I get it now. The problem is the hypocrisy of it all.

About my earlier comment?

Never mind.

Unless, that is, some of you do fear you will be corrupted by sitting in a space also occupied by a symbol. In that case, don't worry about it. You'll be fine.

JT said...

Christ is preached more on Christmas worldwide than any other time of year.
All you learned in the WWCG about saturnalia, brumalia and sol invictus is not so.
Sol invictus came long after the birth of Christ was set by the early church based on a march conception and a June birthday for John the Baptist.
Saturnalia ends before Dec 25, Brumalia begins in November.
There is heavy scholarly proof that the sol invictus, was actually invented to harm the Christian church! Not the other way around.
Sheep DO stay outside in fields in winter especially in the middle east but in fields close to town.
Winter would be the best time for a census as it would not pull farmers off their land during harvest or planting nor conflict with holy days where Jews had to be in Jerusalem not their home towns!
Many wonder about Christ from the music at Christmas and end up believing.

Nothing in the bible about baby intestines on trees. The workman cutting the tree carves it into an idol and covers it with beaten gold and silver. You have to twist the scripture to make that a tree.

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith used to brag about his teenage membership in DeMolay, the youth wing of the Masons. Lately he has stopped talking about it. I wonder why?

Floyd 1944 said...

Certainly the symbols are an issue but what has not been addressed is why the cog's meet in all weird places they do. The reason of course is because all the money goes to headquarters. And once there they are not about to spend very much on hall rental. Masonic lodges, dance halls, beer halls, motel meeting rooms etc are good enough for the brethren. That money needs to be used to "do the." That means let headquarters spend it on important things like remodeling ministers homes, nice meals for ministerial dining.

Byker Bob said...

Ya know........ Many of "the world's" churches invest in two main buildings. One is the actual church. Once it is built, it lasts for decades, and only requires upkeep. But the other, and here is the big negative for the ACOG leaders who preach against the prosperity gospel but insist on living it themselves, is the parsonage next to the church, where the minister and his family are required to live themselves. The lifestyle of the minister is basically regulated by the economics of the church and the neighborhood. The car reserved for the clergy is generally kind of like an unmarked police car. The ACOG math works backwards. Scrounge on your church setting, and the ministry lives upper middle class and drives a luxurious lease car. One way is above reproach. The other way is beyond contemptuous.


Anonymous said...

Masonic interest in Albert Pike is often overplayed by non-Masons - the nebulous and frequently-revised rites of Freemasonry make it difficult to pinpoint Pike or any other writer as a key spokesperson for the group. The heavy Universalist influence on Masonry from the Enlightenment era compounds the problem.

That said, even taking all of that out of the equation, the common Masonic lodge contains all sorts of symbols and imagery that strikes the non-Mason as weird or unusual, so the point regarding LCGs use of the facilities is still valid without leaning on Pike too specifically.

WCG once published a booklet against Masonry until at least the 60s.

Redfox712 said...

It was not until reading this post that I realized how abusive it is for the Armstrongite 1% to expect their followers to meet in a Masonic hall while at the same time demonizing every religion except Armstrongism (including, by implication, Freemasonry, although it is rarely singed out for condemnation by the COGs, aside from a booklet by Jack Elliot published in 1961). They expect their followers to just meet in a hall that they have been told by their leaders is somehow polluted by a religion they are not a part of.

It just shows that the Armstrongite 1% demonize the other religions mainly to get converts or to keep members in the COG. Once the convert is in, either by recruitment or birth, it does not matter to the Armstrongite 1% where they meet.

But the members having been told that every other religion by inspired of Satan will of course feel distressed about this. Because they believe what the Armstrongite 1% told to believe they are distressed.

What a sad, terrible situation that the leaders of Armstrongism have caused by demonizing all religions outside of the COGs and refusing to make church buildings for their congregations.

Anonymous said...

Since my general thesis is graciously ignored perhaps someone can check these facts on the average sponsoring of freemasonry over the years by cog.

50 dollars rental per week x 50 weeks x 100 congregations x 40 years = 10 million dollars
Ok that's not a lot in retrospect except if rental prices would be higher.

But still my point on the cia sponsored radio stations in europe and the caribean, ushering in the american empire and its culture of modernity, pop music, and open markets in the 60 's and hidden as "advertising cost for religious broadcasting" is 100% accurate. These radio stations could not have existed without it's major cog sponsor through broadcast payments.

We were part of something grand of ushering in mankinds destiny as global citizens as it is now being fulfulled. (It all happened under the disguise of religion, but was the universalist globalist agenda after all.)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Comment was made saying: "...Members have pointed out all of the above information repeatedly to those in power at LCG headquarters but the building is affordable and comfortable so Meredith overlooks all the scriptures in his Bible that specifically say not to worship the Almighty from Pagan temples (Deut 12:2, Exodus 23:24, Exodus 34:13, Psalm 78:58, Deuteronomy 7:5, 2 Chronicles 31:1, 2 Kings 18: 4, 1 Cornithians 10:20). Instead of “destroying the alter and pillars” LCG pays to use them each week.

In true Meredith form, we are to do as he says, not as he does..."

The same thing can also be said for the leaders of the United Ass., cogwa and perhaps most of the xcogs in existence.

Now, if any one of them were really God's Church, and Jesus Christ were its real Head, then how could they ever meet in places where worship to Satan the Devil takes place?

In other words, assuming the leader is seeking for a place to have worship services, and assuming they pray to God the Father and/or Jesus Christ for help in finding an appropriate meeting hall........and let's also assume (too many assumptions?) Jesus Christ really helped then, then we would have to ask if they were to meet in for e.g. a masonic hall: "Why would Jesus want any of His followers to have a holy convocation in one of Satan's houses, homes, meeting halls?"

That is, if Jesus were to really help them find a hall (in answer to their prayer) ad they ended up with some masonic hall/temple, we might think: "Couldn't Jesus do better than that?"

Only other conclusion might simply be that God isn't working with anyone of them groups, associations and so meeting in a place where worship services to Satan takes place would be no "big deal." Well, Satan is the god of this present evil world, isn't it? All of the world is deceived, isn't it?

And life goes on......


Anonymous said...

Trust me, a fair number of us in LCG who meet in that hall do not like it!

However, we trust that our ministers are being led by Christ to do the will of God and if they say it is okay, then it must be okay.

If we don't trust in our ministry, what can we trust in?

What if they call to tell us that it's time to flee to the place of safety and we start to second guess them or grumble about the time of day/night or the mode of locomotion that they suggest? We die!

I'm sure that Mr. Meredith and Mr. McNair are aware of whatever issues there are with that hall but if it's good enough for them then it is good enough for us.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the possibility of demons in that hall: I have been there myself and had every hair on the back of my neck stand on end. There is something creepy and dark there. I never saw a demon but I had a friend who said they had. Some of the side rooms are pretty odd and obviously have rituals performed in them.

I have heard the rumor that one of the members who was kicked out last year had voiced a concern over the hall which resulted in their being disfellowshipped for not trusting the ministry.

Mr. Mario Herenandez (a respected Charlotte LCG minister) has even confirmed that he felt an evil presence in the library when he went in there to review his notes for the sermon he was giving that day. He rebuked it but the first thing I thought of was that scripture that says if you rebuke a demon, he will go and get 7 more with which to return.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte is a reasonably nice city of moderate size. Surely there are dozens and dozens of meeting halls but Meredith selected this one?!

It sure seems strange and suspicious to me!!!

Anonymous said...

Someone thinks the WCG was a Central Intelligence Agency experiment!
So funny! Love it!

Black Ops Mikey said...

I am still an advocate of Armstrongism Church Bars.

LCG is a cult.

Why not?

Anonymous said...

So what if Meredith likes Satan? Heck, that's old news!
What's "liking Satan"? Herbie gave an example by raping his daughter repeatedly.

Byker Bob said...

The irony of this is that Jack Elliott, who wrote the WCG's article on freemasonry, was Steve Elliott's father. As reported here, Steve matriculated to LCG, following the splintering of David Hulme's church.

My question for those who trust that their LCG ministers are being led by Jesus Christ is, why did you not trust the Tkach's? HWA named Joe Sr. as his successor. Masonry was lionized just as much as being a doctrine of demons as Sunday-keeping. If anything, we are just examining degrees here.

Finally, the conspiracy theory of HWA being funded by the CIA, and being a front for the CIA surfaced about 15 years ago on a website maintained by one "John England". I was usually pretty good at getting to the bottom of many things during the days when I was an AC student, and a college employee living in the Pasadena area, and there was no evidence or even rumor of any such involvement. Had there been, there are those who actually would love to have believed it, and added it to their figurative personal firewalls. Armstrongism conditioned many people to accept conspiracy theories as a plausible explanation for anything which fact, history, science, and logic could not explain. This is a disease. Unfortunately, many people who have left Armstrongism never did shed or recover from the disease, and still allow it to rule their lives. Paranoia and depression are some of the aftereffects of HWA's teachings.


Anonymous said...

"If we dont trust in our ministry, who can we trust in?"

I don't know. Perhaps the God you claim to worship, and not the men who just go around claiming to follow him?

Anonymous said...

No sources cited in the section dealing with HWA.

Mark said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Trust me, a fair number of us in LCG who meet in that hall do not like it!

However, we trust that our ministers are being led by Christ to do the will of God and if they say it is okay, then it must be okay.

If we don't trust in our ministry, what can we trust in?"

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not....

Anonymous said...

Nothing too suspicious, here.
Just another bad decision that hadn't been well considered first.
In the wacky world of HWA's legacy, there's no shortage of decisions made that haven't been well thought out before being implemented.

We can surely think of many others.
I remember when the theater my local WCG congregation met in had an X-rated movie playing. The deacons went there early and covered up posters with sheets before other members arrived. No word on whether those deacons caused or failed to clean up the jiz on the bathroom floor.

Retired Prof said...

The poster concerned about "the universalist globalist agenda" mentions being "graciously ignored." That adjective "graciously" is apt. We ignore him for the same reason we don't stare at cripples.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Why do people in LCG totally and completely lack courage??? I have never seen a bigger group of cowards in my life! If the hall upsets you, make a stand. Voice your concerns. Attend elsewhere. Big deal.

I get the sense after reading several stories on this site that there are a group of members in Charlotte that want to leave. Then grow a pair and leave!

How will God judge you if you keep attending but hate it and talk crap on LCG but don't do anything to change the situation?

You complain about the LCG leadership being hypocrites but YOU TOO ARE HYPOCRITS! Staying somewhere just to keep your friends doesn't make you any better than they are.

Frank said...

Why would they meet in that place if they have a headquarters church to meet in?

Anonymous said...

Byker Bob,

My point is that wcg funded cia operations (not the other way around) by being the major sponsor of american cultural broadcasts in a time countries were not interdependent as now since we have already entered "the world tomorrow". With global banking, global finance, or should i say "worldwide." OF course stanley rader was the true leader of the church until the decision to desolve wcg was made after hwa death. Funeral of stanley rader was presided over by wcg. It is all in the worldwide news for the reader. You can read that hwa returns to pasadena and mr rader is dropped of in washington "for business".

Anonymous said...

"cia experiment"
you are the type of person who thinks cia has budget for everything and probably never heard of charlie wilson.

kgb didnt use assassins to attack the pope. you just need to steer a nutcase into the right direction, this is the way it works

hwa was the egotistic nutcase spending million of dollars on american foreign policy purpose that has brought the "world tomorrow " upon us as it is right now (that is interdependent world)

Anonymous said...

I m not a troll, since it relates to my conservative estimate of 10 million dollar sponsorship of wcg of masons. That is a conservative estimate. The cia funding is recorded history. NOt cia sponsoring wcg but wcg sponsoring operations. I ask you when is the last time a door opened to you and you spoke to a world leader. This has of course never occured to you. And hwa talked to most of the important world leaders and strategic allies of usa and paid handsome money to US lackeys like sadat. These are all cia operations funded by private individuals.

Anonymous said...


Admittedly, its such a standard, repeating-every-COG-cliche response that it very well could be someone's attempt at humor. On the other hand, sometimes the stamp is so strong it may point indeed to authenticity. You never know.

Anonymous said...

1:41 pm


this message is split in two because it is too big

I admit to exposing myself to ridicule in the manner of expression.
Let me conclude then that you all find it preferable to discuss unscientific hearsay about "demons" in a hall, equalling "your average joe mason neigbor" to Satan and Albert Pike rituals. "Rape" that was not proven in court. etc etc

to proven mathematical science,


-when you dine out on a holy day you are in fact sponsoring a restaurant to run its business with real money
-when you rent a hundred mason halls for 40 years, 10 million dollars sponsorship of the masons is a conservative estimate
-when you "advertise" a "coming world government" on radio ships and stations that promote a "revolution" of (masonic) american culture, music worldwide (in the 60's) while the stations are on tight budget you are in fact accompliss to being an exponent of american foreign policy interests

I provided only one link with cia connections to the radio stations. But more scientific research of founding and funding has been done.

Most of the "conspiracy" theories surrounding wcg indeed circle around the thesis that wcg was made rich by the government. My thesis actually is that wcg (money) was used by the government just because it was rich.

It is really interesting to read the records of for example Emperor Hirohito bestowing the highest praise and merit on HWA for his role in keeping Okinawa Japanese and HWA not knowing or pretending not to know what the emperor is talking about. Only hwa and the us ambassador are in the room. It is very interesting to know who these men were and what they have accomplished and pursued after their ambassadorships.

Other Ambassadors to Syria expressing that the Foundations sponsorship of archeological digs in Syria did more for US - Syrian relations than all the contacts of the State Department.

The GII flying through the Jordan valley without clearance from Damascus to Amman, Syrian jets on one side, Israeli jets escorting on the other side.

The GII flying Japanese elites into Dubai (oil states of which Japan has none), South America, South Africa. (israeli exchange of nuclear knowledge to South Africa).

Anonymous said...

When China was still one of the poorest countries in the world, who was sponsoring educational chairs in oxford for china, who helped introduce china to our ways (hint dr kuhn), who toured the little ambassadors of shanghai? Well they have grown big haven't they, and they have us by the balls.

I could go on and on and on, but you guys prefer fables on "demon" worship in masonic halls to real cold dollars.............

In the end however it has turned out fine after all.
The world tomorrow is being ushered in as being planned.

When Byker Bob was a student a telex to Cairo was short of a miracle, it cost a lot of money and was incomplete. Now we can all converse through the internet and skype for hours and hours for free. Worldwide business information is available for any worldwide corporation at real time. A Korean citizen can own your mall, you can own a Korean telecoms company.

When AC was at its peak, we all wondered if the world would come to an end and 3 billion people could never be sustained on this earth. Now today in the world tomorrow 8 billion people are being sustained, world poverty is being eradicated in a unfathomable tempo. Before the world tomorrow europe''s and indeed us rivers were poisoned by chemicals. Now in this present world tomorrow, salmon is swimming in europes major rivers.

Health, age, transport, communitions. everything has improved and we are only on the brink of what is to come.

Through the world government currently they are working on trade agreements like Tipp, asian - us trade agreement ,most tax havens and banking secrets are about to be abolished banking and financial unions in Europe and South East Asia. etc etc

Yes all is good. I'm enjoying the world tomorrow right now as it was proclaimed, I hope you do too, instead of barking on demons in a rental hall. Please........ you superstitious lot.

We did our little part in building the world as it is............
And yes, I am intentionally using the word "building".... cause that is what masons do!

Anonymous said...

The crazy is strong with Anon12:32

Ed said...

There is hypocrisy in every religion. Hypocrisy is what they do. You could make a Geico commercial out of that.

Anonymous said...

LCG used to meet at the HQ's building but they out grew it per the fire code. Then they moved to a small Masonic hall. It was Masonic but relatively plain. Then they outgrew that location. For a time they met in a variety of rented churches (always going to great lengths to cover all the crosses, paintings of Christ, etc) until one day they decided to meet at the extremely ordained Temple they now meet in.

A Charlotte minister once gave a sermon in which he said that the prayers of the Saints were like the smoke from burnt offerings which were pleasing to the Lord. He went on to explain that we should "turn all our worries to smoke". It was actually a great sermon. I later asked him what his opinion was on how God felt about having the "smoke" (aka prayers of the Saints) come from such a Pagan Temple. He replied that "he'd better not answer that" because he could get in trouble.

The atmosphere of oppression in LCG is overwhelming. People are scared into silence. Of course they have opinions, but at this point no one knows who can be trusted and who the spies are.

Byker Bob said...

1). It is interesting that our anonymous conspiratorialist is not documenting his contentions with cold, hard facts. No citing of unimpeachable reference sources. Basically, he appears to be making this all up as he goes along.

2). Secondly, Armstrongism was such a mess of unadulterated crap already, that if it turned out that there were actually a relationship with the CIA, who would even care? There is already so much damning evidence against HWA, that what difference could a little intrigue between him and the CIA possibly make. If there were such a relationship, it didn't prevent some of us who were backed into becoming conscientious objectors from being investigated by the U.S. government and there being FBI files on us.

The question is, even if there were covert relationships, who really cares at this late date, 40 years after the fact? I care more about all the kids who had the living crap beat out of them daily, and the people who died because of the medical doctrines, or have long term paranoia and depression issues because of the British Israel-based false prophecies, and the gestapo-like church government.


Anonymous said...

I know what you are referring at.
If you have a problem with a specific argument I would be most happy to provide context. Since 80% of my information is from open source and official church publications.

Your "crazy" point perhaps refers to the way I connect the dots. That's fine.
Of course it would be illegal for the cia to give a 100.000 dollars to the private funds of it's ally Sadat in Egypt. But of course it is perfectly ok to find a crazy old millionaire who would in name of the "unseen hand." It is so funny in the official church video hwa is virtually pushing an enveloppe of 100.000 dollars to mubarak sadat's successor. You can see in the video that a surprised mubarak is not used to the rules of the game at that time and embarrassed to even take it.

I witnessed hwa arriving in some foreign country. They were surprised by the private jet. The security gates of the airport were opened, all was cleared and police escort provided. (this is only done when a plane is recognized as "official") When several years later the honorable mr tkach landed with his plane on the same airport every suitcase was to be checked and a lot of forms had to be filled in if it hadn't been for an experienced church member who talked to custom officials really professionally.

Anonymous said...


Wasn't referring to you, Conspiracy Theorist Who Links To Unsourced Wikipedia Entries.

Anonymous said...

"The crazy is strong with Anon 1232"

That, and he's getting upset that no one is interested in his suppositions.

Anonymous said...

I find it interesting when a conspiracy theorist comes here to tell us the "Truth"!
It's to be expected, though, because Herbie's bullcrap was not only based in conspiracy and other wacky theories, it planted seeds of that crap in peoples' minds, and exacerbated that proclivity among the wackiest members. (Hence, our latest "helper" who's here to tell us of his conspiracy theory "Truth"!)

Anonymous said...

"Crazy Anon"
First I apologize to the owner of this blog. Feel free to delete any of my postings deemed unsuitable to the subject at hand. This blog should serve the "trapped people" more than my proclivity to share my theory.
Second I apologize to BB. I have known him for 14 years through blogs and again he sets me straight on my priorities. He has grown older and wiser unlike me.

However BB I must contend your statement that I make all up. Basically all is fact and most is to read in the worldwide news issues of the seventies. It is just that 99% of the members knew nothing about who the "worldly" people hwa was meeting actually were, what their role was and how they proceeded their careers after finishing their political or diplomatic careers. And 99% of the members didn't know anything about "the foundation" and the causes it sponsored, but that hwa was "going through open doors."

I do not expect anyone to adress the us government theory espoused. They might even be erased from this blog if chosen by the monitor.

However the facts that I mentioned can easily be backed up if anyone wishes so. The government theory connecting the facts however is mine alone.

An honest question remains for 8:07: What do you mean by unsourced wikipedia entries?" It has sources underneath. A scientific publication about the european world tomorrow broadcasts was written by Eric Gilder.

Anonymous said...

How about that for an unprecedented conversion. I beat Tkach at that.

Anonymous said...

One more for 8:07

Think again about its largest financial contributor.

Byker Bob said...

Look, by the time HWA was doing his worldwide traveling, he and his son, GTA, had a 35 year track record of preaching a horrible and horrifying anti-American "gospel" message. It was as bad as anything Axis Sally, or Tokyo Rose ever broadcast. And it was based on twin false theories called "British Israelism", and "German Assyrianism". If I am not mistaken, HWA was rightly called into accountability by the US government for his radio broadcasts leading up to and during World War II.

What do we believe might have happened if Billy Graham had attempted to meet with some of the very same dignitaries who willingly met with HWA?
It is very likely that Billy would have gotten the same reception. And, Billy Graham was a guest of virtually all of the US presidents during my life time, something that could not be said of HWA. Has anyone ever accused Pastor Graham of being a covert operative or supporter of the CIA?

Wild conspiracy theories are not the sort of thing that would prompt the deceived members of some toxic and abusive cults to rethink the directions of their lives. Conspiratorialists accomplish only one thing: they demonstrate the hugeness of their own ego. Alas! They are the great ones with the secret information, the purveyors of "truth". If there is anything worse than the HWAcaca, it is weirdness of these tinfoil people. It was bad enough back in the day when they would buttonhole you after sabbath services to tell you that your intestines were contaminated by all of the food additives, so you needed to take an enema each day for thirty days to restore your health.



Anonymous said...

I admit being a little annoyed by the statement I make things up.

HWA in Syria (quoting mr Dean)

I remember talking with the chairman of Union Oil, who visited different countries because he had a charity, and he would say: "How do you do that? We have to give them a month and wait until they call us."

I'd say, "Well, we've gone around the world on two hours' notice. We overflew Syria the day after another prop jet got forced down. We took off without permits. We got our permits while we were in the air. The other plane that got forced down had a permit. So we flew down the Red Sea with MiGs on one side and Phantoms on the other during the war."

A statement by mr Armstrong in Syria (yes mr Armstrong could be funny but all in all he tended to speak as truthfully as possible, you decide....)

Mr. Eagleton spoke of the humanitarian endeavors of Americans like Mr. Armstrong through the AICF in an effort to “help humanity in spite of its seemingly unsolvable problems.”

As guest of honor, Mr. Armstrong spoke last and stunned his audience by telling them he worked for the U.S. government! “Half of my salary goes to the government and another part to the state of California.”

What else.... emperor hirohito on mr armstrongs role in the okinawa issue in 1972?

Byker Bob said...

"BB has grown older and wiser". Nah. It's just the NZT.

Sorry to be such a buzz killer. It's just that I hated the way in which the Armstrongs and their lackeys used conspiracy theories to explain their weakest points, and to control us. To me, shedding these conspiracies was a very important part of my own recovery, one directed towards a somewhat less paranoid and more tranquil lifestyle. I remember the first week that I was on the original Painful Truth Forum, one of the ladies sent me some material on David Icke. The tone of her email lead me to believe that this lizard stuff was something she believed in, and was maybe looking for some validation from the new guy. I said to myself, "Oh crap! Here we go again!"

Some highly intelligent people are conspiracy buffs, though. My old dorm mate Orlin Grabbe had a website on which such stuff was perhaps the key element. It's funny. I referred one of our local radio personalities to Orlin, one who had been fired from his talk show for taking a stance against the war in Iraq, and he was able to vent to people who were entirely in sympathy with where he was coming from.


Anonymous said...

I agree that any antagonistic or improper approach by me is not helpful to those still trapped in abusive religious systems. This setting is certainly not the planet alumni fun of yesteryear.

So I try to refrain or expound more only if asked to back a certain statement up by its source.

In my 14 years of on and on responding on weblogs mostly I have learned however that only one or two out of many "ambassadors" truly understand american foreign policy and the diplomatic interaction between states and its actors.

It is well known that it was official policy in the Carter administration to propell religious figures into the diplomatic arena. In the eighties Billy Graham was applauded for being the first religious person of consequence to have visited the new China. As a loyal wcg person I wondered at that time how it was possible that the media and chinese had missed hwa two years earlier bringing gifts of at least 500.000 us dollars. It was only later that I found out that the speeches by Foundation officials only lauded "the great way communist chinese officials ushered in the new world and that world government was the only solution to world problems without any mention of christ whatsoever. Yes Jesus was mentioned in the voice over of the feast movie but not in the original speeches about world government. So hwa was overlooked as a religious leader.

British Israelism. The white mans burden, or americas manifest destiny, go west young man, pasadena as the promised land, the city shining on a hill. Go figure, study american culture. Look at it from the outside instead as an insider. I know that is not easy. That used to be the pervading culture of Yale educated State Department men. And that culture made AC a white anglosaxon elite institute.

I find that with former wcg people lacking even basic skills in foreign policy, history or the workings of the state department it is very hard for them to discern when I m making fun or being dead serious. What I find most disappointing is that no one bothered to even check what Mr Armstrongs real message to world leaders was and what for instance the unseen hand from some place really means for a world leader. After 2008 crisis I should expect anyone to understand the unseen hand.

HWA was sitting at the main table at the UN during celebrations. The UN was the US tool for Ushering in the American Empire until the collapse of the Soviet System. Now it wil be reformed into something new, what I call the world tomorrow. As I said in the seventies we could not fathom to sustain 8 billion people healthy and educated on this earth. Now it is in easy reach.

Anonymous said...

Your lucky I am a busy man. I would so much like to explain more on how what you call HWA anti american message just fits into a communication strategy instilling fear into a population made ready for war. I would direct you to the social engineering of PR men like Edward Bernays, Freuds cousin, The World of Tomorrow fair in the late thirties.
Your regular supermarket takes your money it does'nt care about what you believe about pigs meat or matzes. So did many cia backed radio stations taking world tomorrow money since of course the cia has no budget for that sort of thing.

You must remember that wcg was the largest mediabuyer in the world.

You know the power of pop music and pop culture, you witnessed the americanisition of the world in the sixties. I don't blame you for not recognizing that the only way for the people of the world to ever hear of a person named Elvis was by these radio stations of the free world as a bastion of sound and culture of freedom versus the evil empire of the soviets that after american propaganda was silenced turned out to be a impoverished sick system with no power or plans whatsoever to wage war against the west.

Anonymous said...

Most of the time when I see the words "Rod Meredith" and "closet" in the same sentence, it's not paganism that comes to mind.

Anonymous said...

I don't know where the hell this thread went.

Byker Bob said...

Well, since a lot of the people who used to use their names, or screen names now post as "anonymous", I don't know who is whom any more, unless someone has a distinctive and instantly recognizable writing style. So, unless there are definite clues, even though someone may have been communicating on the so-called dissident forums for 14 years, their posts can't possibly trigger memories of all past exchanges.

That having been said, international geopolitics, and how the U.S. deals with it all is an incredibly complex process, that I seriously doubt that anyone completely understands, much less someone who whose sentence structure, basic ideas, use of punctuation, and inuendo makes one question whether that individual has ever been to university, let alone one of the top ivy league bastions of thought such as Yale or Harvard. Those who speak of the "new world order" generally cite the Bilderbergs or Trilateral Commission as calling all the shots, however, these two groups are analogous to the Republicans, and the Democrats. The Bilderbergs are the conservatives, and the Trilateral Commission are the liberals. I believe these two groups are diversionary straw men. POTUS may or may not have a secret boss that we do not know about, but it is impossible to "know" this, or to discover "his" or "their" identity or to know whether he or they are benign and looking out for our best interests, or evil, wishing to ultimately destroy us. We do know that our two party system often presents radical changes to our international approach with each change of administration, that there are constantly unexpected and initially undetected threats constantly evolving, and that our government officials are very capable of indulging in "street theatre" for our benefit. I seriously doubt that even the people who are deeply involved in the process fully understand what is really going on. Power struggles are always a very complex process, somewhat like an international chess game. Players can study all of the winning moves from the past, but there is a wide variety of permutations, and new ways of combining them with evolving technology.

We have many existential threats on the planet today that we did not have when HWA first began broadcasting his message. Some of these are only manageable on a global basis. When the USSR disbanded, one of the very poignant things that became obvious was the fact that they had never made the progress that we had in cleaning up and preventing the pollution of their part of the planet. This is also true of China. This is just one area that suggests that a world government is needed to enforce a cohesive plan to manage what humans do to the planet. The problem is, who gets to be that? When power is divided, there are inherently checks and balances. When power is concentrated in or focussed on one individual or group, the best we can do is to hope that the power is benign, strongly influenced by the Magna Carta or other documents of freedom, and looking out for our best interests. An individual has no sustainable power against such a massive corporate entity. At best, all that any of us can do is to carefully watch as we attempt to conduct our individual lives within the greater structure of Pax Americana.

As for HWA, we may never know the full extent of his activities, or how he was really regarded by those who had greater power. It all boils down to the seat of the pants street level. On that level, we know that he really "jacked us around and screwed us over". People of all intellects can readily digest that central fact.


Anonymous said...

You feel jacked around and screwed over. I feel HWA just tried to teach us something he truly believed. Perhaps those like you feel screwed, because they tried to pursue happiness by emulating what HWA believed. Whereas I always was more inspired by what he did.

Zippy said...

Reminds me of the WT broadcast of a HWA speech given at an Athens, Greece, Chamber of Commerce meeting: Chamber members were expecting something about getting more American tourists, and HWA is rambling on about "an unseen hand". The AICF sure made a chump of whoever booked Armstrong to speak.

Byker Bob said...

"Whereas I was always inspired by what he did"

Friend, I have no desire to impune your intelligence, but in 15 years blogging on dissident sites, that wins the contest for dumbest, most naive statement I have ever seen posted on these blogs!


Anonymous said...


"Friend". Did you enjoy influence by someone with quaker background? :-)

Although we generally find ourselves on the same page. On this particular subject we find ourselves in that Life of Brian scene, where you seem to taken on the part "what did the Romans ever do for us", and I take to enjoying "the straight roads", the "clean water" and "order in the empire". You call that naive. Although through the lense of the all seeing eye we are still on the same page.

I am not in any way closing my eyes for the many that died not seeking medical attention. Actually perhaps these people are even more elevated than I am, I can respect their point. However I did not miss any opportunity to see a doctor if in need, just because it was no secret HWA benefitted from this science aswell. And you dare to call me dumb and naive, while I tend to respect those that felt God would intervene directly on their behalf.

I can cite many more examples that you would lable dumb and naive and I call common sense.

For example. I recognize that people come here for real help or information. So I refrain from commenting on the thread that has the person appealing to RCG leadership to moderate their reign. My personal opinion is that if someone is abused mentally or physically by for example a drunken spouse, you walk away. Clear and simple, you walk away from abuse. One I do however respect the appeal made by the monitor to not say this. I clearly understand the power of relatives, spouses, children held captive by a system like that and the power of not wanting to abonden them. I really do.

So what happens then. Intellectual or other reasoning with a person pleading with its dictators. While in reality they should just leave. Now, like that.

I hold the position that people should feel when they are abused, from deep inside, in order to make the necessary decisions to either walk away, confront the abuser straight on (in gentlemanly manner of course), or face the consequences. Not on a intellectual level.

So on the homosexual video thread I deconstructed the central tenet of cog dom, the two equal god figures living together in eternity. Not because I expect people to suddenly turn pagan or triumvine because of my rant. I expect a reader to be really dismayed by this deconstruction, try to come up with arguments to back up the God family tene,t existing out of 2 equal beings. In the process building up that gigantic vision of the Universe some might just come to see how small minded, insignificant and irrelevant the argument in the video are. For the old schoolers at minute 3 somewhere it even turns into a very bad immitation of garner ted speaking style mocking the caring Jesus.

Now if this happens I am satisfied. However, you may hold the position that my antagonistic approach of deconstructing sacred believes, just scares away people genuinely seeking help and solace in their despair because their world has been falling apart for the past 25 years. I also do respect that position and as you can see I refrain from commenting on that certain thread.

But don't call me dumb or naive on a thread where I clearly pointed out in my personal deconstructive way the corporate and internationalistic structure of the wcg corporation of which only 5 people were legal members even for all the baptisms. It is not my problem when I pose a position and all turn away to focus on the slaves that built the roman empire. I do care for the slaves too.


Anonymous said...

Perhaps I should offer a bit more consolance to those trapped in choices between several evils. If you are a 110% sure you are being abused but cannot leave for whatever reason I fully respect. Sent your tithes to superb causes. Then at least at the very instant you have to answer to your creator you have something to say or answer while being probed. Just tell about the abuse and why in your reasoning you sent Gods money to the needy. Then listen to your advocate pleading for you. Then await Gods final verdict on you.

Anonymous said...

It seems that many loose the thread of the original subject re: Masonic halls used as venues to conduct Church of God services. Can LCG please answer the question (since they use so many of these Masonic venues) if they are the church of the Freemason movement or the church of God? Are their messages from the Bible or maybe they are infiltrating Freemason methodology? Are some of their ministry very heavily involved in Freemasonry? If they are unwilling to change venues, obviously the membership are distressed by having their services in this hall, then they have their own interests at heart and not the membership. I feel that their hard heartedness and a lack of love for the membership will be LCG's downfall. "Pride comes before a fall". Beware LCG remember the past or this organisation is doomed "IT WILL NOT SURVIVE" don't push you luck too hard and continue in an oppressive manner to your membership. I hope you will read this and repent "every man shall be rewarded according to his works. ROD MEREDITH be warned, you have very little time on this earth, you have been given much, but don't appreciate it. You may risk even eternal life, I hope not for your sake.

Anonymous said...


In all honesty 5:21.
I don't believe any in LCG can answer more than that the rental of these halls is a tradition that goes back to the sixties or maybe earlier. LCG is just folowing in set tradition not involved in any masonic shennennigans.

Before I lost track I made the following conservative estimate.

50 dollars rental per week x 50 weeks x 100 congregations x 40 years = 10 million dollars

Since LCG cannot answer your question I tried to shed some light on the origin of the original wcg tradition to rent masonic halls. It originated from covert sponsorship.


Anonymous said...

And yes most of wcg doctrine espoused from doctor Hoeh in his compendium is actually 33rd degree masonry.
Dr Hoeh was of course the most holistic Budhist in the Church. The entire What Thai LA was at his funeral.

HWA in the fifties admitted being interested in pyramidology but admitted not understanding it. Personally I like the theories still about the master builder Cheops being Job and all...

Perhaps some of you remember Dr Rea and his philosophy on the Indians brought over on Viking ships from Scotland to Mexico. This is 33rd degree masonry at its best. The princes of the Orkneys descended from Vikings knew long before C Columbus that there was such a place as America. It is even claimed they dispersed this knowledge to a certain young sailor from Genua.

I m not saying it is all bad and demonic. It just all so weird what I discovered that BB my good virtual friend found it necessary to "mark" me while I was just disclosing only 1% of my discoveries into wcg.

Byker Bob said...

7:12, it is not possible to "mark" an anonymous poster. While often presenting interesting information, basically anonymous posters are ghosts who do not stand out as individuals, and all blur together. And, while I still do not know who you might be, in the friendships in which we know with whom we are speaking, most of us make a conscious effort to make allowances and tread lightly in areas where we know there are differences purely in the interest of maintaining a long term friendship. When an unidentified person presents ideas with which we disagree, we are more likely to be expressive and to counter those ideas. If half of my friends went anonymous, we would probably discover that there are many points of disagreement neither of us fathomed. On most blogs, people debate the merits or lack thereof of controversial ideas. Labeling an idea as dumb is not equal to and the same as calling the person who presented it dumb. I believe that many of the readers and posters here who read your statement admiring HWA for his accomplishments probably immediately went to the incest, the things they gave up because he taught that it was fruitless to invest in a life that was going to end in 1975, the indignities they had suffered at the hands of the ministry, and the self-serving money hole HWA had pulled us all through for a bunch of meaningless photo ops with tenuously positioned people seen as world leaders. But, I guess it is possible to admire anyone who wields exploitative power and gets away with it long enough to build an empire. HWA admired Hitler.


Byker Bob said...

PS. Why don't you do this topic in which you are obviously very interested some justice? Take some time, write an article, citing specific references to support your statements, and post or publish it where interested parties can read it? Many of us have written articles on various ACOG related topics over the years. It gets written into the collective Armstrong experience, is cathartic for some, while serving as cautionary information for others.

As go conspiracy theories, most of the people who have left the ACOGs seem in retrospect to consider them to be part of the problem we all experienced. They were used to manipulate us towards the desired behavior. However, there have also been numerous individuals I've encountered on the net who shed the toxic doctrines, but for them, Armstrongism ended up being a gateway to conspiracy theories, and other non-mainstream thinking. My own opinion is that these theories fuel paranoia, and are a continuing energy drain on one's life.


Anonymous said...

Well, thank you very much for your effort. Whilst in the process succefully neutralising me. Being anonymous my gesture was atrocious abuse of language and spelling in order to stand out amongst the eloquent.

You make some interesting observations. As an observation I consider the following a gem: "If half of my friends went anonymous, we would probably discover that there are many points of disagreement neither of us fathomed."

I understand one cannot see the cards of an anon. However when presented with limited information you observe that what is being read is in the eye of the beholder filtered through their personal lense.

I don't care so much for HWA's accomplishments but I said for what he did. So when most seemed to be preparing for the 1975 ending of the world as you observe, my focus was on the building of the auditorium and campus at that time etc to my mind clear and crisp long term projects.

Now, the beholder will probably filter the above statement as being me attempting to prove my superior intellect. My reason for sharing actually is because for one I really filter information this way but second that some of the most damaging splinter groups still proclaim the nearing ending of the world, whilst engaging on extensive building programs. Why not invest in your own pension plan or 401 k NOW whilst still holding the belief that things might turn out differently. My own kin has no pension plan and spend what they have on extensive building plans that will only be sold as pension plans for remaining ministers after their particular schism will fold. And folding it will because they are cults. This is proven science. Cults fail in the end!

Now, I never used the term conspiracy theories. Although I admit that my way of presenting makes it hard to understand what are the clear facts and where I am the one connecting the dots.

Now you say HWA admired Hitler. In my Universe I would state that it is in the public domain that HWA admired Henry Ford, and Henry Ford was an anti semite admiring Hitler. Now in the thesis you propose I might just expound more on this. For now I suffice that the above statement will be filtered as another "dumb anti americanism blasting one of the heroes of the greatest country in the world and if you don't like it go live somewhere else and everone wants to live here". But I tell you such a vies is not going to solve the puzzle if anyone would indeed be interested in solving the puzzle what wcg was. (and we should not make it bigger than it was, after all it had only 4 or 5 members.)

Anonymous said...

Now what you called meaningless photo opps, I tried to give meaning. We either conclude right now that most former members of wcg lead meaningless lives, to serve a meaningless leader, serving meaningless purpose or we derive some meaning out of that the cia was able to finance part of the propaganda war during the cold war through wtm sponsorship, and ushering in the world from separate sovereign warring nations into the world as we know it now. Now some might credit steve jobs for connecting the world as it is. But as you stated earlier on that would be a gross oversimplification from the intricacies that have weaved the present system together. I focussed on the cia. But there is an endless list of activities that are only coming to fruit now. 9th Circuit Court, Chinese - western relations and the feeble framework of international cooperation through the UN and court of Justice. During the time of their conception it was not sure it would develop in what it is now, so our weavers did a good job flying that GII (with Dr Singh), building the autority of an organisation (UN) that I realise is still feeble today but in my opinion will undergo another final transition to finally fulfill its destiny to usher in something like what we used to call the world tomorrow. I will save you all from another rambling and might just take BB's advice and knit it all together one day. Yes a lot of widows mites were wasted on jet fuel. Still to me those widows mites are still at work on most every topic I read in the daily news. A matter of perspective.


Byker Bob said...

Despite all of your wild extrapolations and leaps, (should we blame the influences of Hislop?) there was no significance to what HWA did, or to what we did in support of him. He was as effective as Captain Chaos, Butters' alter ego on South Park, choking on his own delusions of grandeur as he attempted to flood the world by leaving a garden hose turned on. Sorry to inform you, but it was all a waste. In our adventure, off to see the Wizard, as in the movie, we were just part of Dorothy's nightmare.


Anonymous said...

Haha my friend, Ozz, my favorite story indeed.

That is the very difference between you and me in our argument.
You will point me to the 1939 movie.
Whereas I will point you to the original 1900 book.

Befitting finale to point me to the political, social, economic context of 1893. (blink blink)

Maybe next time in conversing here with you or others I should live up to the expactations of my 400 year old alma mater and actually exceed their demands to live up to their honors bestowed upon me in the past.

Byker Bob said...

Amen. Good to remain friends. I did wonder, however, if you might be one of our international posters, perhaps skilled in several languages, with English maybe not being your first language? Those would be the sorts of things one could not discern from words posted via keyboard.


Anonymous said...

Of course. In the end it is only our approach that differs.
As I admitted elsewhere, atrocious use of language and spelling is just what it is, no excuse. Being serious I try and maintain standards though, being half serious I lower the standards accordingy, for saving time. Sometimes vice versa. I now realise that this type of disruptiveness only served a distraction. Perhaps some are silently doing their research, while others may just be appalled by my contribution.
Admitting to language skills in order to alter your views would just serve my vanity.
Thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis should have given me away already. :-)
In real live I'm in the business of disruption as they call it nowadays.

Anonymous said...

"Just one more thing", since from my viewpoint our argument stemmed from my approach/angle and perhaps I may add, you feel, from my content. You correctly state that some things are hard to discern by looking at words. An angle focussing on syntax however gave me away years ago.

Of course all this I use metaphorically in relation to my previous postings. In the process completely disrupting my earlier argument to not focus on the message but on the messenger.:-)

According to Hoehian philosophy my approach may also have been perceived as the actions of the biblical (genesis) figure of Shiva, builder and destroyer of worlds, malignant or teriffic, benign or auspicious.

Byker Bob said...

No problem. The practice of "masking one's intelligence" through dressing down, using street lingo, and crappy spelling and grammar is a well known tactic amongst the gifted. The trick is to know from social cues when it is appropriate and effective, and when it is self-defeating.


Anonymous said...

I still don't know where the hell this thread went.

Anonymous said...


I said no problem 2: 11 and provided a link to explain what happened here.
It was an attempt to explain the philosophy of deconstruction by Jacques Derrida.
This link was removed by the monitor. I pray that was for legal or technical reasons and not for sheer stupidity of said remover.


Anonymous said...

I didn't have the time to read through all 87 comments so perhaps someone else has already mentioned the fact that the Rod McNair / Rod Meredith dream team kicked people out because they hated that Mason Temple so much that even though they lived in Charlotte, they drove 2 hours to attend church with another LCG congregation.

Meredith felt that it showed a lack of faith in LCG ministry, stating that these people should trust that if there were any problems or concerns the ministry would have dealt with them.

LCG demands blind obedience. Anything less and you are labeled as a trouble maker. Even if you quietly make a decision to attend the same church with another group.

Anyone brave enough to express concerns over the hall is asked if they "trust the ministry" which is a trick question. Then they will be asked if it is their "job to correct the ministry".

Again, there is no way to come out of this conversation with McNair on top.

LCG believes members should just trust in them without question.

People with minds and free will eventually leave or get kicked out.

Only brainwashed sheeple remain because they are the people who are either too stupid to figure it out, too indoctrinated to know anything different or too cowardice to make a change fearing the loss of all their friends and family.

Byker Bob said...

Derrida? Jeez, how many readers do you think are capable of actually understanding his philosophy?